Re: Proposing Tracker for inclusion into GNOME 2.18
On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 13:46 -0400, Joe Shaw wrote: On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 13:49 +0100, Ross Burton wrote: I do wonder why nobody has taken a fast database-backed RDF triple store (from librdf), put a sparql-based frontend on it for queries (again from librdf) and used re-used a lot of code from both Beagle and Tracker for harvesting the metadata... Do you mean pulling the data out of Beagle or Tracker and putting it into a separate RDF store? This is something we've wanted to do in Beagle for some time. It has never really been fleshed out whether the right thing to do here is build an RDF graph on top of the existing store when presenting it to users or to keep a separate store for this. Keeping a separate store makes searching a lot more difficult, though, unless you're searching only one store at a time. Instead of whatever database you are currently using to store metadata, use a triplestore. You are half-way there with the current (pseudocode) Subject.AddProperty(dc.title, sometitle). Ross -- Ross Burton mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: gnome-main-menu for inclusion in GNOME 2.18
On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 19:28 +0200, David Prieto wrote: I'll file bugs. :) Where can we file bugs BTW? I'd like to make some suggestions but I can't find any launchpad page for gnome-main-menu. Haha, I see Mark's plan for World Domination is doing well. I can't see a page on bugzilla.gnome.org yet. This is quite a problem for getting mass adoption, even if it didn't get into GNOME 2.18. Ross -- Ross Burton mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposing Tracker for inclusion into GNOME 2.18
Ross Burton wrote: On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 23:10 +0100, Jamie McCracken wrote: The RDF way would be (triples): hasPersonalEmail --- rdfs:subPropertyOf --- hasEmail hasWorkEmail --- rdfs:subPropertyOf --- hasEmail RossBurton --- hasWorkEmail --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] RossBurton --- hasPersonalEmail --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] RossBurton --- hasPersonalEmail --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] You would then be able to query on hasEmail and get all three addresses. okay that looks nice. I will add some kind of triple store (ie use three tables instead of the current two tracker uses for metadata). I dont have plans to turn tracker into a full semantic web thing but I do want to take advantage of this in the simplest way possible. There is very little difference between a database with three columns, and a true triplestore (full semantic web thing) apart from the fact that the former has lots of RDF:s magic inherently available to it. Which, incidently, is already coded up in librdf. yes I will borrow some code from it. As I said before, librdf contains database-backed triplestores, RDF query parses, and more. All one needs to do is glue it together with an indexer. thats problematic because we dont just use sqlite for metadata but lots of other performance critical stuff (namely storing results of live queries, merging results from rdf query with fulltext searches etc) the librdf creates a standalone database so cant be properly integrated as is with out existing sqlite stuff (can modify librdf though to do so) For the query stuff, I would need the generated sql to join against our full text index results and librdf does not provide for that. (it would be too slow and consume too much memory to merge two potentially big result sets entirely in memory). Full text results in tracker are currently stored in a temp table for joining against the rdf query's generated sql in a fast and efficient manner. so to integrate I would need to either extract code from or modify librdf. All I need (as we already have a functional and extensible rdf query support already in tracker which is optimised for rdbms use rather than hashtables as librdf is) is just the triple table structure and the rdfs:SubProperty stuff coded in librdf for the metadata relationships. By not using librdf as is, we can better optimise stuff as JamesH suggested with a flattened table for metadata relationships as well as the fact we already use integer based joins on our tables as opposed to the slower string ones librdf appears to be using (librdf also mentions its not optimised for RDBMS use - http://librdf.org/docs/storage.html) Let me know if you think I need any other stuff... -- Mr Jamie McCracken http://jamiemcc.livejournal.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
gnome-system-tools and liboobs branched for gnome 2.16
Hi, Don't know if it's useful information, but it's worth telling: g-s-t and liboobs now have the fictional gnome-2-16 branch, although the DBus changes didn't get into GNOME 2.16, some distro(s?) chose to ship it, and they're being told to use stuff from this branch. future plans in HEAD may be PolicyKit usage (depending on the HAL/PolicyKit releases used in GNOME 2.18) Regards ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposing Tracker for inclusion into GNOME 2.18
Shaun McCance wrote: On Wed, 2006-10-25 at 11:20 +0100, Jamie McCracken wrote: James Doc Livingston wrote: What would be really cool is support for field groups, but that would probably require a fairly large change. So you could do things like correctly storing the release dates when a track is on multiple albums: Title=Some Track Artist=Artist (Album=X, ReleaseDate=2000/1/1) (Album=Y, ReleaseDate=2001/2/2) that would be tricky unless the album was a separate object I spent a good long while trying to make a complete metadata ontology for musical recordings. Some of these things just get really tricky. The release date is clearly a property of the album itself, so the proposal above is basically trying to store album properties without actually talking about the album. A related but harder issue is when you have some property that really belongs to the track-album pair, and not to either particular object. (Think of child properties in GTK+: expand belongs neither to a GtkBox or to whichever GtkWidget is inside it, but rather to the pair). Track numbers are the easiest example of this. A track might be number 2 on Album 1 and number 7 on Album 2. Clearly, the track itself can't just have a track number. And the track number obviously doesn't belong to either album. One clever mathy way of addressing this is to recognize that a relation R on S and T is just subset R ⊂ T x S. Then a combo property can be a mapping from T x S into some other set. The more practical way of solving this is to say that a track is on only one album, and then create relations to say that two tracks are basically the same. As far as I can see, a music album is a separate first class object. The relationship between albums and tracks is a many-to many one (IE one track can be on many albums and one album can contain many tracks) so this cannot realistically be modelled as a single object or table. The way RhythmBox uses albums also suggests its a separate first class object Its easy enough for us to this implement it like that in tracker. -- Mr Jamie McCracken http://jamiemcc.livejournal.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Announcing GNOME Network Proxy Resolver
On 26/10/06, Christian Persch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi there, please let me introduce the latest addition to the category of totally useless software by announcing... GNOME Network Proxy Resolver ! What it is == GNOME Network Proxy Resolver provides proxy lookup with PAC support via DBUS. This allows other programmes to support the Automatic proxy configuration option from GNOME control centre's Network Preferences without embedding a JavaScript interpreter just for this tiny feature. Have you considered adding support for web proxy autodetection to this (the Auto-detect proxy settings for this network option in firefox). There is a copy of the internet draft available here: http://www.web-cache.com/Writings/Internet-Drafts/draft-ietf-wrec-wpad-01.txt It is basically a protocol for discovering the location of the PAC file for a network, using DHCP or DNS. As I understand it, the DHCP part of the spec should be possible using NetworkManager. The DNS based lookup should work without it. James. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Announcing GNOME Network Proxy Resolver
Hi, Le jeudi 26 octobre 2006 à 18:38 +0800, James Henstridge a écrit : Have you considered adding support for web proxy autodetection to this (the Auto-detect proxy settings for this network option in firefox). There is a copy of the internet draft available here: http://www.web-cache.com/Writings/Internet-Drafts/draft-ietf-wrec-wpad-01.txt It is basically a protocol for discovering the location of the PAC file for a network, using DHCP or DNS. As I understand it, the DHCP part of the spec should be possible using NetworkManager. The DNS based lookup should work without it. No, I haven't considered that. This programme is just a wrapper around necko's proxy service, so it'll support anything that necko supports. Necko has (limited?) WPAD support, which it handles internally just like ordinary PAC with a fixed URL: http://wpad/wpad.dat;. The problem is that our Network Preferences capplet doesn't have an entry for WPAD. We could either handle that internally (using that URL if the autoconfig_url is empty), or expect the user to input that URL into the capplet. If you need anything that's not implemented by necko yet, it should be added to necko itself, not to GNOME Network Proxy Resolver. Regards, Christian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposing Tracker for inclusion into GNOME 2.18
Hello Ross, On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 08:48 +0100, Ross Burton wrote: There is very little difference between a database with three columns, and a true triplestore (full semantic web thing) apart from the fact that the former has lots of RDF:s magic inherently available to it. Which, incidently, is already coded up in librdf. As I said before, librdf contains database-backed triplestores, RDF query parses, and more. All one needs to do is glue it together with an indexer. Have you (or anyone else here) actually tested Redland (librdf) with one of the database backends recently? Last time I checked, Redland wasn't able to translate queries into SQL, which means queries are going to be very slow on all but very small data sets. Redland's storage module overview [1] seems to still imply this, since all database-based storage modules are described as Indexed but not optimized. AFAIK, this means that queries (in RDQL or SPARQL) are not optimized, and that only simple Redland patterns will be fast thanks to the database indexes. The other thing I don't like about Redland or similar libraries like Jena [2], is that they put a pretty thick abstraction layer between the database and whatever interface you use to access the data, like, for example, the query interface. They do that to be able to handle different storage backends transparently, but this always has a cost in efficiency. About a year ago, two colleagues of mine and I imported a large RDF model [3] into Jena using MySQL as backend. We tried doing queries through Jena (in RDQL at the time) and directly from MySQL by just opening the database and issuing the queries by hand in SQL. SQL was up to 100 times faster for some tasks. I think for a dekstop metadata database, we need a really lightweight solution, hopefully with just one, very well optimized storage backend. My candidate would be SQLite because of its ease of configuration, but I still don't really know how it performs when optimizing complex queries (and believe me, SPARQL queries translated into SQL can become really, really ugly...) In this respect, Tracker seems to be on the right path, but I fear Jamie and his contributors must stop hacking for a short while and dedicate some hours to read and understand the RDF specifications. The specs don't tell you how to implement thinks efficiently, but they handle a lot of the really difficult theoretical stuff in a very nice and, above all, standard way. Hope this helps, M. S. [1] http://librdf.org/docs/storage.html [2] http://jena.sourceforge.net/ [3] http://www.xml.com/pub/r/967 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposing Tracker for inclusion into GNOME 2.18
Hi, On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 08:42 +0100, Ross Burton wrote: Instead of whatever database you are currently using to store metadata, use a triplestore. You are half-way there with the current (pseudocode) Subject.AddProperty(dc.title, sometitle). These are currently stored as separate fields in the text index, which is why you can search for joe eggplant and have it match both metadata and contents (ie, joe in an email's From field and eggplant in the body of the email). Once you split up the stores it gets a lot less efficient to do free text searches like that because you have to intersect the results. Joe ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
I apology
I want to apology about what I said recently on this list. I feel very bad about that, and please read why that happened. This is off topic for this list, but please don't laugh, I need to be listened. I am not a native speaker, and in this explanation my phrases may again sound strange... I'll try to be concise. In 2003, being 7 years in a deep depression (caused by life conditions, unanswered love and failed attempt to immigrate to the USA due to September 11), I decided to switch my ordinary software job and become a game developer in a hope that this change will somehow cure me. I participated in the development of a PS2 title (I was responsible for game physics, parts of animation and BSP collision detection). In parallel with software development I was working on a scenario for a future title, it was a naval drama about a young British whaler (I have some writing skills). Unfortunately the amount of new job not cured me as I foolishly hoped, instead, after one year it pushed me into a more mental exhaustion. Being in this state, an accident happened with me where I experienced life threat and after that I gained a so called Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-traumatic_stress_disorder I left gamedev job (I was not able to work in office anymore). I had some savings, so I just was sitting at home waiting for disorder to dissipate. This disorder was marked by a strong anxiety and flashbacks; for several months day and night I was felling like I may die at every minute. I was afraid to call for a doctor in a fear to be taken into a hospital and go crazy because of an additional stress. As a measure to overcome painful flashbacks and draw my attention to something else I started development of a GUI designer in November 2004 and published it about year later when it was finished. I was not ready for mostly negative feedback (or may be I was imagine things) and at this point I should just give up, but I decided to prove that I am right and may be helpful for foss, not fully realizing my health conditions and that my writing skills may be depressing to other people. Next year I was polishing designer and gathering aggression until it all felled here as a Contribution thread and other my messages. Please forgive me for that evil things I was saying here. I was blinded by false beliefs that I bring light, but it was almost all just crazy rhetoric and fantasies of an ill and self-loving person. /Maxim Udushlivy P.S. I renamed designer project (http://crow-designer.sf.net; a crow, because they are tool makers) and will leave it... If somebody is interested to take over, please contact me or use project mailing list. Also, I am ready to give all project copyrights to Gnome Foundation. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Change Action Icons in Gnome
On Tue, 2006-10-24 at 12:05 +0100, Paulo César Silva wrote: Hi all, Where can i change the Actions Icons(logout, lock screen) ? I can't find the Path ?! not to sure. these can be changed as a part of icon theme. it might be system-log-out.png or gnome-logout.png . additionally , gnome icon theme tutorial page needs update for actions :( http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/IconThemes Need Help. Thanks. Best Regards, Paulo César Silva -- Ritesh Khadgaray LinuX N Stuff Ph: +919822394463 Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: I apology
I did not see these evil things you wrote, but I am sure everyone forgives you. Don't be so down on yourself; everything isn't awful. On Thu, 2006-10-26 at 19:15 +0400, Maxim Udushlivy wrote: I want to apology about what I said recently on this list. I feel very bad about that, and please read why that happened. This is off topic for this list, but please don't laugh, I need to be listened. I am not a native speaker, and in this explanation my phrases may again sound strange... I'll try to be concise. In 2003, being 7 years in a deep depression (caused by life conditions, unanswered love and failed attempt to immigrate to the USA due to September 11), I decided to switch my ordinary software job and become a game developer in a hope that this change will somehow cure me. I participated in the development of a PS2 title (I was responsible for game physics, parts of animation and BSP collision detection). In parallel with software development I was working on a scenario for a future title, it was a naval drama about a young British whaler (I have some writing skills). Unfortunately the amount of new job not cured me as I foolishly hoped, instead, after one year it pushed me into a more mental exhaustion. Being in this state, an accident happened with me where I experienced life threat and after that I gained a so called Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-traumatic_stress_disorder I left gamedev job (I was not able to work in office anymore). I had some savings, so I just was sitting at home waiting for disorder to dissipate. This disorder was marked by a strong anxiety and flashbacks; for several months day and night I was felling like I may die at every minute. I was afraid to call for a doctor in a fear to be taken into a hospital and go crazy because of an additional stress. As a measure to overcome painful flashbacks and draw my attention to something else I started development of a GUI designer in November 2004 and published it about year later when it was finished. I was not ready for mostly negative feedback (or may be I was imagine things) and at this point I should just give up, but I decided to prove that I am right and may be helpful for foss, not fully realizing my health conditions and that my writing skills may be depressing to other people. Next year I was polishing designer and gathering aggression until it all felled here as a Contribution thread and other my messages. Please forgive me for that evil things I was saying here. I was blinded by false beliefs that I bring light, but it was almost all just crazy rhetoric and fantasies of an ill and self-loving person. /Maxim Udushlivy P.S. I renamed designer project (http://crow-designer.sf.net; a crow, because they are tool makers) and will leave it... If somebody is interested to take over, please contact me or use project mailing list. Also, I am ready to give all project copyrights to Gnome Foundation. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
gnome-system-monitor (temporarily) reverted to gnome-2-16 for GNOME 2.17.x
Hi Benoit, It looks like you recently added a dependency on pcre to gnome-system-monitor. Since this isn't one of the approved external dependencies at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies, I have (temporarily) reverted gnome-system-monitor to the gnome-2-16 branch. That's probably not the best long term solution so here are some other possibilities: - Propose pcre as a blessed dependency as per the instructions listed at http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointSeventeen/ExternalDependencies - Make the dependency on pcre optional Since pcre is used by external modules such as anjuta, gnucash, and goffice, and is even proposed for usage in glib (http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2006-October/msg00071.html), I think the first of those two options should be relatively easy, though usage of GRegex instead of pcre might be good to discuss as well. It just needs to be proposed and accepted before being depended on. :-) Anyway, let us know what works best for you. [CC'ing d-d-l to keep everyone informed of release status and to remind people about the new external dependency rules] Thanks for all your hard work Benoit, Elijah ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Announcing GNOME Network Proxy Resolver
On 10/25/06, Alexey Rusakov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bastien Nocera wrote: GNOME Network Proxy Resolver provides proxy lookup with PAC support via DBUS. This allows other programmes to support the Automatic proxy configuration option from GNOME control centre's Network Preferences without embedding a JavaScript interpreter just for this tiny feature. You rock! That feature was missing for ages in the control-center (and GNOME applications). This fixes a bunch of very old GNOME bugs like: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123900 Can we get this in 2.18? :) I'm afraid - no, we can't :( The module proposal period is over. Although this really rocks, and it's by no means useless. Well, the deadline was extended as noted with Vuntz' email[1], but more importantly is perhaps addressing a side issue here that seems to not be well known. If you look up the email explaining the module proposal rules[2], you find this snippet: ...A dependency can be proposed for inclusion AFTER the 2.15.1 release... i.e. after the End of new (app) modules proposal period listed on the schedule. The reason for this little rule (and the parenthetical (app) on the schedule) was because we were thinking about the case of new small libraries created to help fix bugs in existing desktop modules. If such modules were small and were written to fix problems in desktop apps, we thought it might be wise to allow them any time before feature/module freeze instead of just any time before 2.odd.1 as with other modules. As far as I can tell, it looks like the GNOME Network Proxy Resolver falls into this special case we wanted to allow, and thus should still be open for consideration. Cheers, Elijah [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-October/msg00025.html [2] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/devel-announce-list/2006-April/msg0.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Notifications for build release issues: gnome-control-center
On 10/21/06, Andreas Røsdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 21 Oct 2006, Elijah Newren wrote: On 10/21/06, Andreas Røsdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Related to this discussion, I have a question: Is it OK to depend upon the dependencies of the currently listed external dependencies for GNOME 2.17.x? snip The dependency I was thinking about is expat, which fontconfig depends upon. If it's OK, I'll add it to the list, then. Sorry for being slow to respond. It looks like no one has any problems with it (no one has screamed so far anyway); I've updated the page with a direct link. Quick question, though: do you really need = 1.95.8? I only have 1.95.7 on this particular system, but it's always been good enough... Thanks, Elijah ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: I apology
tor, 26,.10.2006 kl. 19.15 +0400, skrev Maxim Udushlivy: I want to apology about what I said recently on this list. I feel very bad about that, and please read why that happened. This is off topic for this list, but please don't laugh, I need to be listened. You seem to have more than enough self-insight to help you overcome your situation though. I wish you all the best and a speedy recovery and thanks for meaning well and trying to help even though it may have come out the wrong way. Cheers Kjartan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
