Re: gnome-keyring API Migration
2009/8/12 Stef Walter stef-l...@memberwebs.com: As posted here previously, KDE and GNOME developers are working together on a new DBus based API for storing secrets [1]. I'm working hard to implement this new API in gnome-keyring, while we're finalizing it. It contains many beneficial changes, and lessons learned. You can join in on the discussion on the XDG mailing list [2]. It's very likely that there will be a new client side library which wraps this DBus API. The current libgnome-keyring.so will be probably be replaced by compatibility shims. These shims would be distributed separately from the gnome-keyring distribution. This library would eventually be deprecated. The current (undocumented, unstable, private) binary protocol that gnome-keyring-daemon and libgnome-keyring speak to each other will go away. It's grown crufty and hard to extend. The DBus based secrets API is the future. Migration Effort: * Most normal applications using libgnome-keyring will have almost no immediate migration needed, due to the compatibility shims. * Module packagers may need to update dependencies. * Patches will be contributed to seahorse, gnome-session, gnome-power-manager and any others that interact with gnome-keyring in unique ways. * Parts of java-gnome and gnome-sharp and any others who talk to gnome-keyring using the unsupported private binary protocol will need to be rewritten by their developers. We're working hard to finish all this by 2.30 (ie: 3.0), but that's pretty soon. It'd be awesome if 2.30 was a 9 month cycle. Sweet this all sounds great. Looking through the specs it looks like top notch work - the only gotcha I found was the DBus path naming which should be all lower case according to the DBus naming conventions: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html#naming-conventions. So /org/freedesktop/Secrets - /org/freedesktop/secrets - but somebody stop my painting this bikeshed! ;-) -- Cheers, Mikkel ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 00:15 +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
What if I don't run Nautilus at the start of the session (don't use it
to draw the desktop)?
Isn't that one of the definitions of what a running GNOME Desktop is?
This isn't trolling, by the way. I ran into this a few weeks ago; we
have some unit tests that among other things rely on Nautilus running,
because it's supposed to be running because it's what GNOME uses to draw
it's desktop, yo.
I was astonished — and not supportive in the slightest — to discover
that Nautilus isn't compulsory just as gnome-session and gnome-panel and
many other things are. [Apparently Canonical has pulled a stunt with
their Netbook Remix and don't have Nautilus running full time {sigh}] So
the tests failed for that person. Grr.
++
I realize that there are lots of opinions about this, but the term
GNOME Desktop should mean something. I don't particularly care what,
but it'd be nice to be able to target it. Not platform (sic), and not
even desktop [as in package set]. Maybe GNOME runtime is what I'm
grasping to articulate.
I recall that years ago Dave Neary had ideas about a certification
saying this is a compliant GNOME desktop application; perhaps we
should go further and say this is what a compliant GNOME running
configuration is. Which would, incidentally, give us the ability to
probe and test for it. Yeay DBus, presumably. Not to mention restoring
some concept of GNOME branding identity to people in the world outside
this list.
Doesn't mean taking choice away, but jeesh I'm tired of people not
running GNOME telling GNOME what to do.
++
We left the tests in.
AfC
Sydney
--
Andrew Frederick Cowie
Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy
focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems
review, and effective procedures for change management: enabling
successful deployment of mission critical information technology in
enterprises, worldwide.
http://www.operationaldynamics.com/
Sydney New York Toronto London
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Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:49, Andrew
Cowieand...@operationaldynamics.com wrote:
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 00:15 +0400, Alexey Rusakov wrote:
What if I don't run Nautilus at the start of the session (don't use it
to draw the desktop)?
Isn't that one of the definitions of what a running GNOME Desktop is?
This isn't trolling, by the way. I ran into this a few weeks ago; we
have some unit tests that among other things rely on Nautilus running,
because it's supposed to be running because it's what GNOME uses to draw
it's desktop, yo.
I was astonished — and not supportive in the slightest — to discover
that Nautilus isn't compulsory just as gnome-session and gnome-panel and
many other things are. [Apparently Canonical has pulled a stunt with
their Netbook Remix and don't have Nautilus running full time {sigh}] So
the tests failed for that person. Grr.
Not sure what stunt we're pulling, but UNR doesn't advertise itself as
a GNOME Desktop. It's quite-obviously different than the GNOME
desktop, but I made the decision to try and use as many GNOME
components as possible instead of rewriting everything from scratch.
The fact that netbook-launcher resides on the desktop meant that I set
show_desktop to false in nautilus's gconf to save some time at
startup, as it would never be seen. Even so, in the initial UNR jaunty
alphas, we at least executed nautilus (we hadn't changed the default
session), but that caused an issue where the mouse pointer constantly
span as nautilus didn't mark itself as 'startup-complete' if it had no
windows to show and didn't have to draw the desktop[1].
I would love to have Nautilus running in UNR as it handles
auto-mounting much better than the launcher can, however it does not
have a 'daemon-mode' so it doesn't run until the user needs to browse
a file[2].
Regards,
Neil
[1] I believe I filed a bug for this, but can't find the number right now.
[2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541262
[*] I've got half-patches for both these bugs, just need time to complete them.
++
I realize that there are lots of opinions about this, but the term
GNOME Desktop should mean something. I don't particularly care what,
but it'd be nice to be able to target it. Not platform (sic), and not
even desktop [as in package set]. Maybe GNOME runtime is what I'm
grasping to articulate.
I recall that years ago Dave Neary had ideas about a certification
saying this is a compliant GNOME desktop application; perhaps we
should go further and say this is what a compliant GNOME running
configuration is. Which would, incidentally, give us the ability to
probe and test for it. Yeay DBus, presumably. Not to mention restoring
some concept of GNOME branding identity to people in the world outside
this list.
Doesn't mean taking choice away, but jeesh I'm tired of people not
running GNOME telling GNOME what to do.
++
We left the tests in.
AfC
Sydney
--
Andrew Frederick Cowie
Operational Dynamics is an operations and engineering consultancy
focusing on IT strategy, organizational architecture, systems
review, and effective procedures for change management: enabling
successful deployment of mission critical information technology in
enterprises, worldwide.
http://www.operationaldynamics.com/
Sydney New York Toronto London
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Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 14:54 +0100, Neil J Patel wrote: I would love to have Nautilus running in UNR as it handles auto-mounting much better than the launcher can, however it does not have a 'daemon-mode' so it doesn't run until the user needs to browse a file[2]. [1] I believe I filed a bug for this, but can't find the number right now. [2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541262 [*] I've got half-patches for both these bugs, just need time to complete them. Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
Hey, On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Emmanuele Bassieba...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 14:54 +0100, Neil J Patel wrote: I would love to have Nautilus running in UNR as it handles auto-mounting much better than the launcher can, however it does not have a 'daemon-mode' so it doesn't run until the user needs to browse a file[2]. [1] I believe I filed a bug for this, but can't find the number right now. [2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541262 [*] I've got half-patches for both these bugs, just need time to complete them. Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. I think I would prefer to see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585545 fixed. Jon ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 10:10 -0400, William Jon McCann wrote: Hey, On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Emmanuele Bassieba...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 14:54 +0100, Neil J Patel wrote: I would love to have Nautilus running in UNR as it handles auto-mounting much better than the launcher can, however it does not have a 'daemon-mode' so it doesn't run until the user needs to browse a file[2]. [1] I believe I filed a bug for this, but can't find the number right now. [2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541262 [*] I've got half-patches for both these bugs, just need time to complete them. Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. I think I would prefer to see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585545 fixed. I wholeheartedly agree; having the automounting logic inside a separate component would make it more useful for special environments like Moblin and UNR. I just wanted to point out that Nautilus already has a daemon mode as requested by Neil. :-) ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 15:17, Emmanuele Bassieba...@gmail.com wrote: snip [1] I believe I filed a bug for this, but can't find the number right now. [2] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=541262 [*] I've got half-patches for both these bugs, just need time to complete them. Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. I think I would prefer to see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585545 fixed. I wholeheartedly agree; having the automounting logic inside a separate component would make it more useful for special environments like Moblin and UNR. I just wanted to point out that Nautilus already has a daemon mode as requested by Neil. :-) Heh, thanks :) I just tried that mode and it works great! Will update karmic unr to use that and can finally rip-out automount code from the launcher :) -- Neil ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 14:57 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. Actually Moblin uses a gnome-settings-daemon to do automounting. At the moment it just mounts and then spawns Nautilus, but extending that to do autorun and so on shouldn't be too hard (mostly taking code from nautilus). #585545 has our patches to g-s-d. The latest suggestion is to split out nautilus's automount code as a g-s-d module but keep it in the nautilus source tree. Ross -- Ross Burton mail: r...@burtonini.com jabber: r...@burtonini.com www: http://burtonini.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 15:55 +0100, Ross Burton wrote: On Wed, 2009-08-12 at 14:57 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: Neil, have you seen bug 579574? I left a comment on bug 541262 but I wanted to mention it here as well: Moblin uses Nautilus to handle automounting but we don't use it to draw the desktop as well, since... well, we don't have a desktop but a neutral background. Actually Moblin uses a gnome-settings-daemon to do automounting. At the moment it just mounts and then spawns Nautilus, but extending that to do autorun and so on shouldn't be too hard (mostly taking code from nautilus). whoopsie. I'm still behind, then. :-) ciao, Emmanuele. -- Emmanuele Bassi, W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Signalling when the desktop is loaded
On Tue, 2009-08-11 at 11:55 -0500, Cody Russell wrote: Hello, So I was talking briefly to vuntz in irc yesterday about wanting to have some kind of mechanism to find out when the desktop session is ready (ie, not once Nautilus and panel are launched, but when they are actually pretty usable and done loading stuff). In terms of the panel, vuntz suggested maybe adding a signal in panel_applet_queue_initial_unhide_toplevels() under org.gnome.Panel. In Nautilus there is FMDesktopIconView end_loading signal that seems to work well. It would be nice to have a single signal that could be emitted once both of these are finished, so I wanted to post here and see what others think and get suggestions on where this might be done. / Cody ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list Hi, It seems this thread has gnome slightly off-topic a bit now, but I'll try to steer it back on-topic with a suggestion of my own. First of all, let me explain the reason for starting this thread and what is currently happening in Ubuntu. This will allow me to explain the problems with the current implementation in Ubuntu, and the reasoning behind my suggestion. Cody - please correct me if any of my details are wrong / out-of-date, as you are much closer to this than I am. Cody has been working on some software called xsplash. I think the idea is that it will show a full-screen splash image when logging in via GDM, and the splash image will not disappear until the desktop has finished loading (and is ready to use). This should look visually appealing, as it should hide things like panel applets loading (at least that is my understanding of it) and make the transition from GDM to desktop really smooth. This necessitates the need to know when various desktop components are ready to use though. The way that this is currently done in Ubuntu is by patching gnome-panel and nautilus to signal to xsplash over dbus when they are finished loading and ready to use. Xsplash will only disappear when both of these components are ready, or a timeout occurs. The shortfalls of this implementation are: - Some users may not be using gnome-panel or nautilus (or both), or may not use nautilus to draw the desktop. gnome-session allows you to choose to not start these components (or swap them for something else), so this case should be handled gracefully without breakage. This is currently worked around by a 10 second timeout in xsplash, but it means that the splash image could be displayed for a long time after the session is really ready to use. - If somebody else wants to patch their application to work with xsplash, then xsplash must also be updated to become aware of this application so that it waits for it to finish loading before displaying the desktop. If a user decides not to use this new component, they will hit the same issue mentioned above. So, the current implementation is not particularly scalable. My suggestion for this is based on gnome-session sending out a signal over DBus when the session transitions to Running (doesn't it do this already?) Xsplash should listen out for this signal, and show the desktop when it sees it. Currently, gnome-session will transition from Application phase to Running phase an arbitrary amount of time after autostarting all of the applications in the application phase, or after a timeout (10 seconds?) - so there is no guarantee that the desktop is ready to use when this signal is emitted. My suggestion is based on providing an API in gnome-session to allow autostart applications to stall the transition to the Running phase until they are really finished loading. The autostart applications (eg, gnome-panel and nautilus) should signal to the session manager that they wish to stall the transition to Running straight after registering with it. Then, they will signal to the session manager later on when they are ready to use. Only when all applications who asked to stall the transition have signalled that they are ready, will gnome-session then transition to Running and emit a signal that the session is now running. This addresses both of the above shortfalls: - If a user chooses not to use the default components which support stalling the session (gnome-panel or nautilus), then the implementation will fail gracefully by transitioning to Running when all autostart applications have loaded and registered (as is the case now). This would avoid the current timeout in xsplash to deal with this issue, although the user experience would be slightly degraded by using desktop components that don't support it. - A developer can add support for this mechanism to their application without having to also patch xsplash to make it aware of this new application. For example, gnome-volume-control-applet could be patched to ensure that xsplash doesn't disappear until it has
Re: GNOME 2.28.0 Beta 1 (2.27.90) Released!
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Lucas Rochaluc...@gnome.org wrote: To compile GNOME 2.27.90, you can use GARNOME [1] (which supports users and has additional/different modules available), or the jhbuild [2] modulesets [3] (which use the exact tarball versions from the official release): [1] http://www.gnome.org/projects/garnome/ [2] http://library.gnome.org/devel/jhbuild/ [3] http://download.gnome.org/teams/releng/2.27.90/ Please consider using the GNOME Devel Kit as well: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeDeveloperKit Granted the ISO is pretty hefty and the first time you update it, it takes a while, but it is worthy. Cheers, -- Og B. Maciel omac...@foresightlinux.org ogmac...@gnome.org ogmac...@ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
