Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
Greetings, I am a new member of the GNOME contributors community. In the following message, I will suggest the creation of a new project entitled GNOME Innovation in HTML format for easier comprehension. GNOME Innovation Project Proposal Introduction The GNOME Innovation project is a proposal for the conditioning of a new environment for the community to organize ideas in a brainstorm-like system. From the behalf of this project, the current method of idea organization used by GNOME is not unified as it should in order for it to achieve optimal performance. The problem with it is that there are many places where the community can submit their ideas that are not interlaced; community members with potential interest might not get to know about these ideas. If GNOME Innovation is created and the community is formerly notified, the submission of ideas and project proposals in a unified environment will overcome the effectiveness of the system used today. The general objective of this project is to bring faster innovation through a better communication to GNOME. Project Structure Sub-domain at gnome.org There are two proposals as to where to host this project: URL Characteristics innovation.gnome.org It follows implicit gnome standards for sub-domain naming. It is easier to understand for the general pubic. nova.gnome.org It is shorter than the previous option, letting no attention be taken away from the word gnome. However, it is not expected that any of these is applied for sure. System The project is intended to use a Brainstorm System, which is already provided by IdeaTorrent. It is already implemented in successful projects such as Ubuntu Brainstorm, SourceForge.net and others. This system is based on problem solution, which makes it pretty similar to the bug reporting system already existent in gnome; a user posts an idea, composed initially of a rationale--which is the description of a what the idea will fix--and posteriorly he submits a solution. Users incorporated in the system will be able to post solutions for the same rationale themselves. Solutions are rated with a thumbs-up thumbs-down system, implementing a democratic way of selecting the best solution. To prevent the miscarriage of the community, before an idea is able to be voted on and discussed, the Brainstorm Moderation Team will have to approve it. The team will also get notified of popular ideas. If they consider an idea is cost-effective, they will communicate it to the developers for them to start bringing it to life. Graphical Representation - Best regards, Wolter Hellmund attachment: GNOME Innovation Diagram.resized.png signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Wolter Hellmund wolte...@gmail.com wrote: The project is intended to use a Brainstorm System, which is already provided by IdeaTorrent. It is already implemented in successful projects such as Ubuntu Brainstorm, SourceForge.net and others. Is there any data indicating that Ubuntu Brainstorm works better than filing enhancement bugs? Are there any statistics about how many Ubuntu Brainstorm ideas are actually implemented, and how many are implemented largely due to feedback from Brainstorm? I would hate to implement a system like this that gave users a false impression of being able to vote features into GNOME, so I think hard data showing that's not what would happen is important. Sandy ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 12:20 -0600, Wolter Hellmund wrote: Greetings, I am a new member of the GNOME contributors community. In the following message, I will suggest the creation of a new project entitled GNOME Innovation in HTML format for easier comprehension. Please use ASCII. Some people may use even CLI newsgroup clients (via gmane). (...) Ok. The only feature different then bugzilla is vote down AFAIU. Moderation is similar to marking NEW and vote up to adding to CC. Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 20:40 +0200, Maciej Piechotka wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 12:20 -0600, Wolter Hellmund wrote: Greetings, I am a new member of the GNOME contributors community. In the following message, I will suggest the creation of a new project entitled GNOME Innovation in HTML format for easier comprehension. Please use ASCII. Some people may use even CLI newsgroup clients (via gmane). (...) Ok. The only feature different then bugzilla is vote down AFAIU. Moderation is similar to marking NEW and vote up to adding to CC. Note that bugzilla does have a voting feature. We explicitly do not enable it. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 13:57 -0500, Shaun McCance wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 20:40 +0200, Maciej Piechotka wrote: On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 12:20 -0600, Wolter Hellmund wrote: Greetings, I am a new member of the GNOME contributors community. In the following message, I will suggest the creation of a new project entitled GNOME Innovation in HTML format for easier comprehension. Please use ASCII. Some people may use even CLI newsgroup clients (via gmane). (...) Ok. The only feature different then bugzilla is vote down AFAIU. Moderation is similar to marking NEW and vote up to adding to CC. Note that bugzilla does have a voting feature. We explicitly do not enable it. No. You explicitly changed it to CC system ;) - if something is worth it user agree to get spammed by updates ;) Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
Well, I am really sorry for using HTML. I thought it would be liked. Well, there is no data indicating that Ubuntu Brainstorm works better than filing enhancement bugs, for that takes the elaboration of an investigation I am not prepared to launch. As far as I know, there is no user-accessible numeric record with the information you request in your second question. Most of the implemented ideas have very good solution ratings, yes. However, it is always subject to the developer's time and their will of implementing the idea. - Best regards, Wolter Hellmund On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 11:37 -0700, Sandy Armstrong wrote: On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Wolter Hellmund wolte...@gmail.com wrote: The project is intended to use a Brainstorm System, which is already provided by IdeaTorrent. It is already implemented in successful projects such as Ubuntu Brainstorm, SourceForge.net and others. Is there any data indicating that Ubuntu Brainstorm works better than filing enhancement bugs? Are there any statistics about how many Ubuntu Brainstorm ideas are actually implemented, and how many are implemented largely due to feedback from Brainstorm? I would hate to implement a system like this that gave users a false impression of being able to vote features into GNOME, so I think hard data showing that's not what would happen is important. Sandy signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
Wolter: I think your graphic flowchart is a good start. However, a lot of GNOME modules do not really have active maintainers. To date, I think the community has dealt with that problem in an ad hoc manner. However, if we are going to formalize how such a process works, then I think i would be of value to make it more clear how modules without active maintainers are maintained. Maciej: Ok. The only feature different then bugzilla is vote down AFAIU. Moderation is similar to marking NEW and vote up to adding to CC. I think one main benefit to the innovation idea is that it creates an archive where people can, hopefully, go to find out the discussion behind particular design choices, and what issues were considered. This can be helpful reference, for example, when trying to make changes to that code later or replacing it with something new. Since much of this discussion has already happened on mailing lists, it would be especially useful if the innovation tool made it easy to reference such past threads. It would be neat if you could go to some website and quickly find links to particular design discussions that happened in the past, whether on mailing list or captured directly in the innovation tool. This sort of process is also similar to the OpenSolaris ARC (Architecture Review Committee), where you have a process to help make architectural decisions. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/ In this process, the focus is on a project's interfaces moreso than the internal, or private, architecture of a given module. The focus is more to ensure that modules integrate well together on the system. For a project like GNOME, there might be more value in studying and documenting the internal architecture of some modules, though. The ARC process is probably not the right fit for the GNOME community, but I'd encourage people to read some about how the process works and cherry pick any good ideas that might apply. Brian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 13:11 -0600, Wolter Hellmund wrote: Well, I am really sorry for using HTML. I thought it would be liked. Ups. Sorry if I was too mean. I'm just somehow old-style person who still uses USENET ;) AFAIK HTML in email is not liked very much among at least some old-style people. Probably because it makes processing harder etc. Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
Am Mittwoch, den 30.09.2009, 12:20 -0600 schrieb Wolter Hellmund: In the following message, I will suggest the creation of a new project entitled GNOME Innovation in HTML format for easier comprehension. On a related note: What I agree with is that GNOME is missing a kind of bazaar where people can post their ideas (that do not cover one existing application) and find other people willing to work on it. I liked the piece of paper on the GNOME wall at the last FOSDEM conference where people could enter their project name contact info and state that they search for more developers and input. andre -- mailto:ak...@gmx.net | failed http://www.iomc.de/ | http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Pidgin users, and GNOME developers?
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 22:09 +0200, Pascal Terjan wrote: On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:56 AM, Bastien Nocera had...@hadess.net wrote: If you use Pidgin enough to test changes you'd make to the nautilus-sendto plugin, I'd appreciate if somebody could do the work to: - port the nautilus-sendto plugin to use the Pidgin D-Bus API I gave it a try, and it was easier than expected even if Pidgin API is not really documented... Selecting contact works fine but file transfer was not really tested (it gets queued, I will have to find someone to test it with) How do you want to see the code ? Bugzilla ? nautilus-list ? I'll try to clean it a bit tomorrow evening and send it Bugzilla is good, thanks very much for the work! Cheers ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Project Proposal: GNOME Innovation
When we were having discussions on version control systems, one of the ideas that I had thrown out for a git/bzr over a centralized version control was that fact that we could branch all of GNOME on an experimental branch and create a bazaar for ideas. A lot of times in this mailing list we get bogged down over issues of stability and performance as we are now a mature software project and so we have a lot of restrictions on how we introduce features into our eco-system. But what attracts people is the ability to innovate and be able to break the rules as it is and be able to express ideas whether they are crack or not. We would also be able to attract younger talent and a new generation of code contributors/maintainers. Something worth thinking about and it would be fairly easy to start something like that, although there is a lot of demons in the details if you want the branch to actually be useful over time (eg controlled chaos, not chaos) sri On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Wolter Hellmund wolte...@gmail.comwrote: Well, thanks a lot Brian for the good prospect. You did mention yourself a couple of arguments I forgot in my last reply. For those of you who misunderstood the idea of Innovation, and why it is not the same thing as bugzilla but with votes, here is my explanation: The idea behind Innovation is not to solve bugs for existing projects (it can work that way, but that is not the idea). It is precisely for innovation--for suggesting things never seen before. It is true: manpower is a highly important factor which might conform a weak point for this Innovation Environment. - Best regards, Wolter Hellmund On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 14:15 -0500, Brian Cameron wrote: Wolter: I think your graphic flowchart is a good start. However, a lot of GNOME modules do not really have active maintainers. To date, I think the community has dealt with that problem in an ad hoc manner. However, if we are going to formalize how such a process works, then I think i would be of value to make it more clear how modules without active maintainers are maintained. Maciej: Ok. The only feature different then bugzilla is vote down AFAIU. Moderation is similar to marking NEW and vote up to adding to CC. I think one main benefit to the innovation idea is that it creates an archive where people can, hopefully, go to find out the discussion behind particular design choices, and what issues were considered. This can be helpful reference, for example, when trying to make changes to that code later or replacing it with something new. Since much of this discussion has already happened on mailing lists, it would be especially useful if the innovation tool made it easy to reference such past threads. It would be neat if you could go to some website and quickly find links to particular design discussions that happened in the past, whether on mailing list or captured directly in the innovation tool. This sort of process is also similar to the OpenSolaris ARC (Architecture Review Committee), where you have a process to help make architectural decisions. http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/ In this process, the focus is on a project's interfaces moreso than the internal, or private, architecture of a given module. The focus is more to ensure that modules integrate well together on the system. For a project like GNOME, there might be more value in studying and documenting the internal architecture of some modules, though. The ARC process is probably not the right fit for the GNOME community, but I'd encourage people to read some about how the process works and cherry pick any good ideas that might apply. Brian ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
