Re: Where is the data?
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: On Sat, 2011-08-20 at 18:09 +0300, Felipe Contreras wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Shaun McCance sha...@gnome.org wrote: On Sat, 2011-08-20 at 14:43 +0200, Tomasz Torcz wrote: I think his objections were justified. There is really no raw data at those URLs. Except Allan never claimed he was providing raw data. In fact, he explicitly said that he does not do write-ups of user tests. So what's the point of replying to a mail asking specifically for data? When somebody asks me for something I don't have, I usually respond telling them so, and explaining why I don't have it. I think it's rude to ignore people. Well, that's true, but he claimed there was lots of data. I think that was an exaggeration. I also do user tests when working on the help. I also don't do write-ups. I fix problems or I pass information on to those who are in a position to fix the problems. Just because I don't publish reports doesn't mean I don't do user tests. And the constant assertions that nobody is looking at feedback are getting a bit insulting. User tests, like surveys, are not perfect and can be both misleading, and not significant enough. You're right, of course. All methods have flaws. But user testing, at least, gives results that are personal and actionable. When I get results like all 5 users were uncertain where to click when instructed to click the 'user menu', I know what to do. I have no idea what to do with 63% of respondents report they are less happy than they were a year ago. Yes, that kind of user testing gives you clear short-term actions, but it doesn't tell you if people happy with the whole system overall. It doesn't tell you if you are missing something essential, nor does it tell you when you are bleeding user-base. But you missed my point, my point is that they can be improved through *collaboration*, you publicize them, and people make suggestion to improve them. If those tests are to be taken seriously, they should be published so that they can be scrutinized, otherwise they are not evidence of anything, not to the rest of the world. I agree there are problems with transparency. A lot of things get done on IRC, because high-bandwidth communication is great for rapid development. I've been a strong supporter of public logs for IRC. I think we should discuss ways to better record what we do and the decisions we make. Indeed. But, I don't want to be in a situation where we have to wait for committees to scrutinize data and approve proposals before we can make changes. That sounds like an awful project to write software for. I don't think anybody is proposing that. All people are looking for is some public record. Just by doing that you might realize that perhaps you didn't have such strong reasons to switch to something as much as you were thinking, after all. Also, people could tell you; you are misinterpreting the results _there_. -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Where is the data?
2011/8/20 Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 06:46:15PM +0200, Giovanni Campagna wrote: Still, if bug #123456 is more voted than bug #654321, it may be worth dedicating some more design hours to the former than to the latter, investigating the reasons, providing evidence, doing tests, etc. Then, maybe the bug will still be closed NOTABUG/WONTFIX, but it will be given a response proportional to the number of people reporting it. Because voting just gets a small number of people involved, results in distractions (why isn't this fixed yet; has XXX votes) Just ignore them if you don't care about them. , only technical users get involved and that it just is not seen by any significant amount of users I will not enable voting. It does more harm than good. Whoa! Wait a second. How do you jump from only technical users get involved to it does more harm than good. Technical users are still users, right? If you get 0 votes, that at least gives you something, specially compared to another bug report that has 1000 votes. At the end of the day you might decide to go for the one that has 0 votes, because it's easier, but at least you know, there's that bug report over there that more than a couple people *definitely* care about. This is also on bugzilla.mozilla.org. Most voted bug at one point had 700 or so votes. That is about 1000 times off from what I find noteworthy. Again, you can ignore the votes if you want, or you can assign your own scale, but the point is, that a vote with 700 or so votes is certainly more likely to be important that one with 0 votes. Personally, I have had great success with bug reporting voting on my projects, and seems to match pretty much the feedback I receive through other methods. But I'm not going to try to convince you, I'm sure there's no objective measure that would change your mind. -- Felipe Contreras ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Rethinking GnomeGoals
Hello, I redid the template file and made it into an matrix so all modules and goals share the same page. It is inspired by http://people.gnome.org/~fpeters/299.html you can have a look at it on https://live.gnome.org/DjohnHeist Some modules might need to go and some needs to added. This is just a first draft. Feedback welcome. From: Javier Jardón jjar...@gnome.org To: Djohn Heist djohnhe...@yahoo.com Cc: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:56 PM Subject: Re: Rethinking GnomeGoals On 19 August 2011 00:05, Djohn Heist djohnhe...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello hackers Helllo Djohn, Would it be feasible and advantageous to move the GnomeGoals to a structure based on the new module definitions like suites-core, apps, world? Indeed, It would really great if you can help with this. I think a good start would be the template file [1] Thanks for your work! [1] https://live.gnome.org/GnomeGoals/Template -- Javier Jardón Cabezas___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
