Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Hi Emmanuele, So for the scope and scale you are right, but I'm trying to higher the scope and scale of building and contributing to GNOME as well. Not to be in par with Gtk+, but enough to deserve to be in the website. You are logically right about Legitimacy is provided by being on the gnome.org domain, not whether the page is on a wiki but in practice I think is not enough. The wiki will continue to be a wiki, editable by anyone, without any review process. And even if the tutorial I made recently is the linked one in GnomeLove, people in IRC link to other tutorials and they all have the same legitimacy since they are in the wiki. We are not transmitting and enforcing this. And a clear way to show the world we are doing it, is having the full guide in a official place. As for your worry about easiness of editing the page... If we do it well enough, we shouldn't need lot of maintenance. See for example the wiki page I created for this https://wiki.gnome.org/GnomeLove/BuildGnome Nothing here should change in a foreseable future. The only thing to maintain is a list of supported distros (distros that works out of the box). I'm not convinced on listing all workarounds for distros that doesn't work well with jhbuild, it's even more problems for newcomers, and when I started I was very angry about trying to do it in ubuntu and not being able to. I would payed for someone saying to me: we know a distro named Fedora/Opensuse works out of the box. And the workarounds is a hell to maintain, and didn't work for us at all until now. So far, I can't see anything else requiring too much contribution that a wiki will let people do it easier. What do you think? Cheers, Carlos Soriano - Original Message - From: Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com To: Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com Cc: gnome-doc-l...@gnome.org, desktop-devel-list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Sent: Wednesday, 18 March, 2015 1:09:04 PM Subject: Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org Hi; On 17 March 2015 at 12:33, Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com wrote: So after some work in GnomeLove and discussions in the gnome-love list, I would like to make this proposal. Read more here https://wiki.gnome.org/CarlosSoriano/GnomeLoveMoveTask So I would want to have feedback on this idea over this week, since I will take a intern from OPW for it, and the deadline is next Monday. What do you think? =) Hope you like the idea. I'm a little bit worried that you're trading off the ability to easily keep the page up to date with a more convoluted process that requires learning Mallard, committing to a Git repository, and then updating the page on d.g.o. You note this as well, but then you mention Getting started with GTK+ which does not really apply in the same way as building and contributing to GNOME — the scope and scale of the two efforts are clearly not similar. Why is having a page on the wiki a problem? Legitimacy is provided by being on the gnome.org domain, not whether the page is on a wiki. Would having a prominent link on developer.gnome.org solve the issue of the Google page ranking, while keeping the page easily editable? Ciao, Emmanuele. -- https://www.bassi.io [@] ebassi [@gmail.com] ___ gnome-doc-list mailing list gnome-doc-l...@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-doc-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com wrote: ... So after some work in GnomeLove and discussions in the gnome-love list, I would like to make this proposal. Read more here https://wiki.gnome.org/CarlosSoriano/GnomeLoveMoveTask So I would want to have feedback on this idea over this week, since I will take a intern from OPW for it, and the deadline is next Monday. What do you think? =) I think this somewhat depends on the overall design of developer.gnome.org, and how you intend to slot the GNOME Love material into it. developer.gnome.org has often struggled due of the lack of a clear audience. When we've discussed this in previous years, there has seemed (to me, at least) a general agreement that the site should focus on third party application developers, rather than GNOME development. One possible way around this would be to have a clear link from developer.gnome.org to the wiki. Or would that be insufficient, somehow? Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Hi; On 17 March 2015 at 12:33, Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com wrote: So after some work in GnomeLove and discussions in the gnome-love list, I would like to make this proposal. Read more here https://wiki.gnome.org/CarlosSoriano/GnomeLoveMoveTask So I would want to have feedback on this idea over this week, since I will take a intern from OPW for it, and the deadline is next Monday. What do you think? =) Hope you like the idea. I'm a little bit worried that you're trading off the ability to easily keep the page up to date with a more convoluted process that requires learning Mallard, committing to a Git repository, and then updating the page on d.g.o. You note this as well, but then you mention Getting started with GTK+ which does not really apply in the same way as building and contributing to GNOME — the scope and scale of the two efforts are clearly not similar. Why is having a page on the wiki a problem? Legitimacy is provided by being on the gnome.org domain, not whether the page is on a wiki. Would having a prominent link on developer.gnome.org solve the issue of the Google page ranking, while keeping the page easily editable? Ciao, Emmanuele. -- https://www.bassi.io [@] ebassi [@gmail.com] ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Hi Allan, So if we continue with the wiki, most of the points I pointed before continue to be a problem... New jhbuild/git/whatever tutorials will came up... people won't find the appropriate one given that the wiki is not official. i.e. people say: it's a wiki, just modify it! Which is true, but I don't think we want that for something like this. Some people will prefer one tutorial over the other, and we will continue to link different tutorials and continue maintaining all of them and having to deal with a mix set up of the newcomers and newcomers will continue to be confused going back and forward on different guides. We can agree on something like this wiki tutorial is the one we recommend, but we can't enforce it at all if we not move to a official page like developers.gnome.org So if it is a matter of logical splitting about 3rd party apps and Gnome contribution, I don't think it matters that much in practice no? What do you propose to fix these problems if not? This is the only idea that came to my mind. Cheers, Carlos Soriano ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME 3.15.92 Release Candidate
Sriram Ramkrishna wrote: On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Frederic Peters fpet...@gnome.org wrote: Hello all, We have now reached the end of the development cycle and here comes a release candidate for you to download, build, and test. Enjoy it as fast as you can, the final release is scheduled next Wednesday. To compile GNOME 3.15.92, you can use the jhbuild modulesets published by the release team (which use the exact tarball versions from the official release). https://developer.gnome.org/jhbuild/ There doesn't seem to be a link for 3.15 or 3.16 here? The first link is about jhbuild, there's a second link with the modulesets: https://download.gnome.org/teams/releng/3.15.92/ Still, about the documentation link, I had plans to roll a 3.16 tarball of jhbuild, to get the documentation updates online, I'll get to it. Fred ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
, Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com wrote: So if we continue with the wiki, most of the points I pointed before continue to be a problem... New jhbuild/git/whatever tutorials will came up... I'm not sure why this is an issue... it is perfectly acceptable for you to manage the GnomeLove area of the wiki. people won't find the appropriate one given that the wiki is not official. But isn't that just a matter of keeping an eye on the GnomeLove page, to make sure it points to the right places? i.e. people say: it's a wiki, just modify it! Which is true, but I don't think we want that for something like this. Some people will prefer one tutorial over the other, and we will continue to link different tutorials and continue maintaining all of them and having to deal with a mix set up of the newcomers and newcomers will continue to be confused going back and forward on different guides. We can agree on something like this wiki tutorial is the one we recommend, but we can't enforce it at all if we not move to a official page like developers.gnome.org While areas on the wiki aren't formally governed, there are informal rules, and I don't see why you couldn't take a de factor editor role for the GNOME Love pages. So if it is a matter of logical splitting about 3rd party apps and Gnome contribution, I don't think it matters that much in practice no? It impacts the overall design of the site. It also affects who will contribute to the GNOME Love documentation. What do you propose to fix these problems if not? This is the only idea that came to my mind. To me, the main issue is one of navigation, which can be solved with a prominent link from developer.gnome.org to wiki.gnome.org/GnomeLove. I'd also suggest that you be bold when it comes to taking control of the GNOME Love pages. :) Allan [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/CarlosSoriano/GnomeLoveMoveTask ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Hi Allan, On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Carlos Soriano Sanchez csori...@redhat.com wrote: Hi Allan, So if we continue with the wiki, most of the points I pointed before continue to be a problem... New jhbuild/git/whatever tutorials will came up... people won't find the appropriate one given that the wiki is not official. Echo this. The developer.gnome jhbuild instructions are quite misleading because they are not up to date. Yet, this is where newcomers are rightfully, most likely to look first and to trust most. i.e. people say: it's a wiki, just modify it! Which is true, but I don't think we want that for something like this. Some people will prefer one tutorial over the other, and we will continue to link different tutorials and continue maintaining all of them and having to deal with a mix set up of the newcomers and newcomers will continue to be confused going back and forward on different guides. This. Carlos seems to be doing a good job of empathising with newcomers in this proposal and personally, I think his assessment is pretty on the money. Tutorials need to be trustworthy, current, comprehensive and provide step by step guides to really be able to help a newcomer get to grips with a concept or skill in certain cases e.g. jhbuild. Carlos has identified a barrier newcomers face when they are learning about GNOME and his suggested solution seems pretty sensible. We can agree on something like this wiki tutorial is the one we recommend, but we can't enforce it at all if we not move to a official page like developers.gnome.org So if it is a matter of logical splitting about 3rd party apps and Gnome contribution, I don't think it matters that much in practice no? What do you propose to fix these problems if not? This is the only idea that came to my mind. Cheers, Carlos Soriano ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal to make GnomeLove official and move it to developer.gnome.org
Magdalen Berns m.be...@thismagpie.com wrote: ... New jhbuild/git/whatever tutorials will came up... people won't find the appropriate one given that the wiki is not official. Echo this. The developer.gnome jhbuild instructions are quite misleading because they are not up to date. Yet, this is where newcomers are rightfully, most likely to look first and to trust most. I think that jhbuild is a bit different to the other GNOME Love material, due to the fact that there is already a manual that is hosted on developer.gnome.org. My position on that hasn't changed since it was last discussed on ddl - I think it's a good idea to consolidate our jhbuild documentation around the manual. The question we're discussing here (to my understanding) is whether to move the rest of the GNOME Love material to the wiki. ... Carlos seems to be doing a good job of empathising with newcomers in this proposal and personally, I think his assessment is pretty on the money. Tutorials need to be trustworthy, current, comprehensive and provide step by step guides to really be able to help a newcomer get to grips with a concept or skill in certain cases e.g. jhbuild. It sounds like one motivation for this proposal is to remove the community maintained nature of the GNOME Love pages - so it changes from something that anyone can fix to something that, in practice, only Carlos will work on. It hasn't been made clear to me why this is desirable. Are there problems with hosting these pages on the wiki, other than people not being able to find them? How will hosting the pages on developer.gnome.org ensure that they are any more current than they are already? Wikis aren't perfect, but they do have the advantage of ease of contribution. In the past I've invested a non-trivial amount of time into the GNOME Love documentation - something that I probably wouldn't have done if it wasn't on wiki.gnome.org. My personal view is that the GNOME Love pages shouldn't have a bus factor of 1. Allan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
GNOME 3.15.92 Release Candidate
Hello all, We have now reached the end of the development cycle and here comes a release candidate for you to download, build, and test. Enjoy it as fast as you can, the final release is scheduled next Wednesday. To compile GNOME 3.15.92, you can use the jhbuild modulesets published by the release team (which use the exact tarball versions from the official release). https://developer.gnome.org/jhbuild/ https://download.gnome.org/teams/releng/3.15.92/ We remind you we are string frozen, no string changes may be made without confirmation from the l10n team (gnome-i18n@) and notification to both the release team and the GNOME Documentation Project (gnome-doc-list@). Hard code freeze is also in place, no source code changes can be made without approval from the release-team. Translation and documentation can continue. More details about changes and news for this beta are available here: core: https://download.gnome.org/core/3.15/3.15.92/NEWS apps: https://download.gnome.org/apps/3.15/3.15.92/NEWS The GNOME 3.15.92 release itself is available here: core sources: https://download.gnome.org/core/3.15/3.15.92/ apps sources: https://download.gnome.org/apps/3.15/3.15.92/ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! -- This release is a snapshot of development code. Although it is buildable and usable, it is primarily intended for testing and hacking purposes. GNOME uses odd minor version numbers to indicate development status. For more information about 3.15, the full schedule, the official module lists and the proposed module lists, please see our colorful 3.15 page: https://www.gnome.org/start/unstable For a quick overview of the GNOME schedule, please see: https://wiki.gnome.org/Schedule Enjoy, Fred ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: GNOME 3.15.92 Release Candidate
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Frederic Peters fpet...@gnome.org wrote: Hello all, We have now reached the end of the development cycle and here comes a release candidate for you to download, build, and test. Enjoy it as fast as you can, the final release is scheduled next Wednesday. To compile GNOME 3.15.92, you can use the jhbuild modulesets published by the release team (which use the exact tarball versions from the official release). https://developer.gnome.org/jhbuild/ There doesn't seem to be a link for 3.15 or 3.16 here? sri ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
