Re: GitLab status update

[Hashem nolastname]

Thanks for the update!

Is nautilus being manually synced to the remote at git.gnome.org? Will
folks need to update their git configs? I see
https://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus now redirects to
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/

Any place I can keep an eye on for updates on how you plan to do the
migration, specifically if the repos are going to be mirrored? Im curious
the plan considering repository mirroring isn't in the Gitlab CE (
https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/18732)


On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Carlos Soriano  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm happy to announce our GitLab instance at https://gitlab.gnome.org/
> GNOME/ is now officially open to host GNOME projects!
>
> For those who sent me an email in the last months to be part of the pilot
> program please contact me again to coordinate the migration of your
> projects.
>
> Also a status update and important tip for all of you:
>
> *GitLab UI redesign*
> GitLab did a major UI redesing in the last months and has a per user
> setting to use it turned off by default. Since our instance of GitLab is
> probably the first time using GitLab for most of you, to avoid major
> disruptions in an eventual future when this UI becomes the default you can
> turn it on now: click your profile icon -> "Turn on new navigation". In my
> personal experience and what I could read it's quite stable and finished.
>
> *Status update*
> We keep working on GitLab migration, more and more projects are starting
> to appear in our instance, you can check them exploring the projects in
> our instance .
>
> In particular, I created a new group named External
>  where we can host projects that are
> closely related to GNOME and would like to use our infrastructure but are
> not official GNOME. This is an early attempt to opening ourselves more to a
> wider world.
> So far there is only one project, that would have to live in the
> Freedesktop space, but I feel more comfortable having it here for the time
> being. It's something I think worth to explore, but keep in mind the
> guidelines for accepting a project in there are in an early stage.
>
> Also early attempts to set up CI are being done, and we have successfully
> set up the first project with CI
>  which is
> already helping to make sure the merge requests are merged only if CI
> passes. Green future is coming to our build status.
>
> Some concerns about performance were raised, the last update of GitLab
> brought the first results of the new team at GitLab for performance
> improvements. You can read more at in the 9.5 release post
> 
> .
>
> As always, if you have any question, feel free contact me or reply here to
> this email.
>
> Best,
> Carlos Soriano
>
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>
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Jeremy Bicha]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Allan Day  wrote:
>The other thing we can do in Software is think
> about making the developer more prominent.

Like using "GNOME Files" in GNOME Software as was suggested by
everyone in this thread who expressed a preference?

Files also suffers from the problem of zero info in the About dialog
to tell you where the app came from or what the app really is. It
doesn't link to a homepage. It doesn't mention GNOME. It doesn't
mention that you'll need to know the word "nautilus" in order to file
a bug or find the source code.

Alexandre, thank you for starting this conversation. I was intending
to start the tread myself after 3.26 was released.

I recommend that GNOME apps follow this pattern (using
gnome-tweak-tool as an example).
Primary user visible name: Tweaks
About dialog: GNOME Tweaks
Appstream metadata: GNOME Tweaks


Thanks,
Jeremy Bicha
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Allan Day]

Richard Hughes  wrote:
...
> >> But names also need to sufficiently identify the named item. Ending up
> >> with 5 "Clocks" and 4 "Maps" in gnome-software isn't really the best user
> >> experience.
...
> > I don't see that issue.
...
> That's because I blacklist all the MATE and LXDE programs when running in 
> GNOME.

What if someone wants to run a MATE or LXDE app under GNOME? I don't
see why we should stop them, and excluding these apps seems rather
arbitrary, particularly if it's because they don't look right somehow.

The question of how to handle apps with the same name isn't specific
to Software - identical apps also show up in the shell. The solution
isn't to change the name in one place and not another.

In my mind having some apps share the same name isn't a major issue if
we can use other information to differentiate them. One answer here is
to ensure that applications always have unique icons. (It seems really
odd to have four calculators, created by four different projects, all
using the same icon.) The other thing we can do in Software is think
about making the developer more prominent.

Allan
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Richard Hughes]

On 4 September 2017 at 14:13, Allan Day  wrote:
>> But names also need to sufficiently identify the named item. Ending up
>> with 5 "Clocks" and 4 "Maps" in gnome-software isn't really the best user
>> experience.
> I don't see that issue.

That's because I blacklist all the MATE and LXDE programs when running in GNOME.

Richard.
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Re: Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Bastien Nocera]

On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 15:41 +0100, Alberto Ruiz wrote:
> Should not be a big deal, basically all URLs are still working
> (ssh://u...@git.gnome.org etc...)

They don't, as per my mail.

>  and Carlos is not going to stop
> looking at bugzilla bugs for now. This just means that people can
> start submitting changes through gitlab.gnome.org

Even if you think that nothing is going to go wrong, why put ourselves
in that position? We could have moved any number of applications that
don't follow the GNOME release schedule, to test things, if that was
the intent.

Moving a core application and having to fix things up _while we're
starting the hard code freeze_ really isn't great timing.

That could have been a great "start to the 3.28 development cycle" blog
post, instead it looks like a scramble.
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Re: Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Alberto Ruiz]

Should not be a big deal, basically all URLs are still working
(ssh://u...@git.gnome.org etc...) and Carlos is not going to stop
looking at bugzilla bugs for now. This just means that people can
start submitting changes through gitlab.gnome.org

2017-09-04 15:09 GMT+01:00 Bastien Nocera :
> On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 15:47 +0200, Carlos Soriano wrote:
>> I guess you can expect this from the previous email, Nautilus has
>> moved and is now officially living in our instance of GitLab.
>>
>> Many thanks to Alberto Ruiz and Andrea Veri for resolving the issues
>> we were blocking on.
>
> Just before the .0 release, is that wise?
> ___
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-- 
Cheers,
Alberto Ruiz
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Re: Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Bastien Nocera]

On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 16:30 +0200, Carlos Soriano wrote:
> Hey Bastien,
> 
> I don't feel is neither wise or unwise. Do you have some specific
> concern?
> The only one we had was translations, and that seems to work.

I think that this sort of failure, while we're working on stabilising
the software, is unacceptable:
jhbuild buildone nautilus
*** Checking out nautilus *** [1/1]
git remote set-url origin ssh://had...@git.gnome.org/git/nautilus
git remote update origin
Fetching origin
git repository does not exist.
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.
error: Could not fetch origin
*** Error during phase checkout of nautilus: ## Error running
git remote update origin *** [1/1]

It will make it easier to respect the hard code freeze though! ;)
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Re: Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Carlos Soriano]

Hey Bastien,

I don't feel is neither wise or unwise. Do you have some specific concern?
The only one we had was translations, and that seems to work.

Best
--
Carlos Soriano
GNOME Foundation 
Treasurer, Board of Directors

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Bastien Nocera  wrote:

> On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 15:47 +0200, Carlos Soriano wrote:
> > I guess you can expect this from the previous email, Nautilus has
> > moved and is now officially living in our instance of GitLab.
> >
> > Many thanks to Alberto Ruiz and Andrea Veri for resolving the issues
> > we were blocking on.
>
> Just before the .0 release, is that wise?
>
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Re: Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Bastien Nocera]

On Mon, 2017-09-04 at 15:47 +0200, Carlos Soriano wrote:
> I guess you can expect this from the previous email, Nautilus has
> moved and is now officially living in our instance of GitLab.
> 
> Many thanks to Alberto Ruiz and Andrea Veri for resolving the issues
> we were blocking on.

Just before the .0 release, is that wise?
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Nautilus has officially moved to GitLab

[Carlos Soriano]

I guess you can expect this from the previous email, Nautilus has moved and
is now officially living in our instance of GitLab
.

Many thanks to Alberto Ruiz and Andrea Veri for resolving the issues we
were blocking on.

Best
--
Carlos Soriano
GNOME Foundation 
Treasurer, Board of Directors
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GitLab status update

[Carlos Soriano]

Hello all,

I'm happy to announce our GitLab instance at https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/
is now officially open to host GNOME projects!

For those who sent me an email in the last months to be part of the pilot
program please contact me again to coordinate the migration of your
projects.

Also a status update and important tip for all of you:

*GitLab UI redesign*
GitLab did a major UI redesing in the last months and has a per user
setting to use it turned off by default. Since our instance of GitLab is
probably the first time using GitLab for most of you, to avoid major
disruptions in an eventual future when this UI becomes the default you can
turn it on now: click your profile icon -> "Turn on new navigation". In my
personal experience and what I could read it's quite stable and finished.

*Status update*
We keep working on GitLab migration, more and more projects are starting to
appear in our instance, you can check them exploring the projects in our
instance .

In particular, I created a new group named External
 where we can host projects that are
closely related to GNOME and would like to use our infrastructure but are
not official GNOME. This is an early attempt to opening ourselves more to a
wider world.
So far there is only one project, that would have to live in the
Freedesktop space, but I feel more comfortable having it here for the time
being. It's something I think worth to explore, but keep in mind the
guidelines for accepting a project in there are in an early stage.

Also early attempts to set up CI are being done, and we have successfully
set up the first project with CI
 which is
already helping to make sure the merge requests are merged only if CI
passes. Green future is coming to our build status.

Some concerns about performance were raised, the last update of GitLab
brought the first results of the new team at GitLab for performance
improvements. You can read more at in the 9.5 release post

.

As always, if you have any question, feel free contact me or reply here to
this email.

Best,
Carlos Soriano
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Allan Day]

Matthias Clasen  wrote:
...

> But names also need to sufficiently identify the named item. Ending up
> with 5 "Clocks" and 4 "Maps" in gnome-software isn't really the best user
> experience.
>
...

I don't see that issue.

Allan
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Emmanuele Bassi]

On 4 September 2017 at 13:34, Matthias Clasen  wrote:

>> I disagree. For some time I've argued that we should drop the "GNOME".
>> Reasons for this:
>>
>> 1. App names should be consistent.
>> 2. We generally don't expect users to know what GNOME is.
>> 3. There are other, better, places we can advertise the project, if that's
>> what we want to do.
>>
>
> But names also need to sufficiently identify the named item. Ending up with
> 5 "Clocks" and 4 "Maps" in gnome-software isn't really the best user
> experience.

And, before you ask: filtering for GNOME core apps would require a
black/white list inside every single app store, which is a solution
that does not scale. :-)

Ciao,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
https://www.bassi.io
[@] ebassi [@gmail.com]
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Matthias Clasen]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:59 AM, Allan Day  wrote:

> Michael Catanzaro  wrote:
> ...
>
>> * Maps appears as GNOME Maps in Software, Maps in about dialog
>>> * Clocks appears as GNOME Clocks in Software, Clocks in about dialog
>>> * Music appears as GNOME Music in Software, Music in about dialog
>>> * Software appears as GNOME Software in Software, Software in about
>>> dialog
>>>
>>
>> I like this style. The app shouldn't have a totally generic name in the
>> software center, so we prepend GNOME to the generic display name there.
>
>
> I disagree. For some time I've argued that we should drop the "GNOME".
> Reasons for this:
>
> 1. App names should be consistent.
> 2. We generally don't expect users to know what GNOME is.
> 3. There are other, better, places we can advertise the project, if that's
> what we want to do.
>
>
But names also need to sufficiently identify the named item. Ending up with
5 "Clocks" and 4 "Maps" in gnome-software isn't really the best user
experience.
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Allan Day]

Alexandre Franke  wrote:
...

> > 1. App names should be consistent.
> > 2. We generally don't expect users to know what GNOME is.
> > 3. There are other, better, places we can advertise the project, if
> that's
> > what we want to do.
>
> That’s for the name used in GNOME Software though, which is in the
> AppStream data and as such is also the name that will be picked up by
> other software catalog apps. Do you really want the KDE app store to
> show “Music” as such, which could be misleading to their users?
>

The GNOME core apps are designed and developed in order to be a core part
of GNOME. They are meant to be integrated, consistent, generic. How they
appear outside of GNOME is a secondary concern, as far as I'm concerned.

That said, I'd imagine that the same principles I described in my previous
mail would apply in other contexts: the name in the "store" should match
the name you see when you run the app.

Allan
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Alexandre Franke]

On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Allan Day  wrote:
> I disagree. For some time I've argued that we should drop the "GNOME".
> Reasons for this:
>
> 1. App names should be consistent.
> 2. We generally don't expect users to know what GNOME is.
> 3. There are other, better, places we can advertise the project, if that's
> what we want to do.

That’s for the name used in GNOME Software though, which is in the
AppStream data and as such is also the name that will be picked up by
other software catalog apps. Do you really want the KDE app store to
show “Music” as such, which could be misleading to their users?

-- 
Alexandre Franke
GNOME Hacker & Foundation Director
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Simon McVittie]

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 at 12:01:32 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
> This has annoyed me for a while.
> 
> On Sat, Sep 2, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Alexandre Franke  wrote:
> > * Maps appears as GNOME Maps in Software, Maps in about dialog
> > * Clocks appears as GNOME Clocks in Software, Clocks in about dialog
> > * Music appears as GNOME Music in Software, Music in about dialog
> > * Software appears as GNOME Software in Software, Software in about
> > dialog
> 
> I like this style. The app shouldn't have a totally generic name in the
> software center, so we prepend GNOME to the generic display name there.

Shouldn't it have the same "branded" name in the About dialog as in
Software, so users can relate the two? Something like this:

App launch menu: Maps
About: GNOME Maps
Software: GNOME Maps

App launch menu: Files
About: Nautilus or Nautilus (Files)
Software: Nautilus or Nautilus (Files)

Or perhaps Maps and Nautilus should be shown as Maps and Files in GNOME
environments only, and as GNOME Maps and Nautilus otherwise (e.g. if
they appear in KDE or XFCE menus)?

S
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Re: Application name strings consistency

[Allan Day]

Michael Catanzaro  wrote:
...

> * Maps appears as GNOME Maps in Software, Maps in about dialog
>> * Clocks appears as GNOME Clocks in Software, Clocks in about dialog
>> * Music appears as GNOME Music in Software, Music in about dialog
>> * Software appears as GNOME Software in Software, Software in about dialog
>>
>
> I like this style. The app shouldn't have a totally generic name in the
> software center, so we prepend GNOME to the generic display name there.


I disagree. For some time I've argued that we should drop the "GNOME".
Reasons for this:

1. App names should be consistent.
2. We generally don't expect users to know what GNOME is.
3. There are other, better, places we can advertise the project, if that's
what we want to do.

Allan
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