Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
El sáb., 17 ago. 2019 0:37, escribió: > On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:39 pm, Alexandre Franke > wrote: > > Indeed. Moreover, in my experience, many maintainers consciously leave > > that time for translators and check the status of their module on > > Damned lies to see if there’s any team currently working on it and > > whether they need to wait just a tiny bit longer for that language to > > land in time. Kudos to all of those who do that, it is greatly > > appreciated. > > Hm. We could solve this problem with a "translation deadline" set, say, > two or three days before tarball deadline. Maintainers shouldn't > release until after the translation deadline is passed, so any > translations committed by that date would be guaranteed to get in. E.g.: > > Wednesday: translation deadline > Thursday: first day to release > Saturday: tarball deadline > Wednesday (week two): overall release deadline > > This wouldn't be needed after the .0 release (since we're in string > freeze) or for early development releases... maybe only for the .0 > release? Or from [.90-.0]? I guess we could have it for every release, > but that makes the schedule significantly more complex. > +1. The details don't matter that much but having a true deadline would be very beneficial (something about motivation and mobilising the team) > Just brainstorming. > > > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:39 pm, Alexandre Franke wrote: Indeed. Moreover, in my experience, many maintainers consciously leave that time for translators and check the status of their module on Damned lies to see if there’s any team currently working on it and whether they need to wait just a tiny bit longer for that language to land in time. Kudos to all of those who do that, it is greatly appreciated. Hm. We could solve this problem with a "translation deadline" set, say, two or three days before tarball deadline. Maintainers shouldn't release until after the translation deadline is passed, so any translations committed by that date would be guaranteed to get in. E.g.: Wednesday: translation deadline Thursday: first day to release Saturday: tarball deadline Wednesday (week two): overall release deadline This wouldn't be needed after the .0 release (since we're in string freeze) or for early development releases... maybe only for the .0 release? Or from [.90-.0]? I guess we could have it for every release, but that makes the schedule significantly more complex. Just brainstorming. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:12 PM Bastien Nocera wrote: > On Fri, 2019-08-16 at 13:49 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: > > I'm a bit confused by this argument, because Monday is only the > > deadline, the last-possible day to release, not a recommended day. > > It's the "last-possible day" *therefore* it is the day that most > tarballs will be released. Indeed. Moreover, in my experience, many maintainers consciously leave that time for translators and check the status of their module on Damned lies to see if there’s any team currently working on it and whether they need to wait just a tiny bit longer for that language to land in time. Kudos to all of those who do that, it is greatly appreciated. -- Alexandre Franke GNOME Hacker ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Fri, 2019-08-16 at 13:49 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: > I'm a bit confused by this argument, because Monday is only the > deadline, the last-possible day to release, not a recommended day. It's the "last-possible day" *therefore* it is the day that most tarballs will be released. You just need to have experience handing or being handed coursework to know how it will go. (I think making the deadline a *hard* deadline would be a better idea, and actually use the release-team's powers to do releases if needed) ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
Hi,
Am Fr., 16. Aug. 2019 um 20:49 Uhr schrieb :
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 7:31 pm, Alexandre Franke
> wrote:
> > Weekends are usually the time when most translations get done. If you
> > remove this opportunity, I guess we should consider freezing earlier
> > too so that translators basically get the same amount of time to do
> > their job.
>
> I'm a bit confused by this argument, because Monday is only the
> deadline, the last-possible day to release, not a recommended day. I'm
> going to do my 3.33.91 releases today most likely, or maybe tomorrow.
> Waiting until the deadline is very stressful IMO.
>
> Personally, my favorite time to release is right after the release
> reminder gets sent out (Thursday night in America). But of course any
> time before the tarball deadline is fine for release team.
The danger here is that translators sometimes assume that the tarball
deadline ("tarball day") is the translation deadline, since that is
the day where (apparently) the tarballs are rolled. As I have since
learned, this is incorrect as each project releases at some random
time beforehand. Which means translators don't have any useful
deadline. Something could be done about that: It would require
defining an earliest possible tarball day which ensures that
translations make it on time. But meanwhile, we (our team) probably
just try to have things done a few days before the deadline while
hoping for the best. Translations committed late will then come along
in the subsequent release, so it's not the end of the world.
Having said that, according to my experience, the main problem is
actually whether distributions like Ubuntu pull the translations
properly. They apparently pull many of their translations
independently of GNOME releases, and Launchpad has a billion bugs so
we sometimes go for several years with a project not updating its
translations and then have to file a bug report again *grumble*
*grumble*.
Best regards
Ask
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Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 7:31 pm, Alexandre Franke wrote: Weekends are usually the time when most translations get done. If you remove this opportunity, I guess we should consider freezing earlier too so that translators basically get the same amount of time to do their job. I'm a bit confused by this argument, because Monday is only the deadline, the last-possible day to release, not a recommended day. I'm going to do my 3.33.91 releases today most likely, or maybe tomorrow. Waiting until the deadline is very stressful IMO. Personally, my favorite time to release is right after the release reminder gets sent out (Thursday night in America). But of course any time before the tarball deadline is fine for release team. Weekends are usually the time when most translations get done. If you remove this opportunity, I guess we should consider freezing earlier too so that translators basically get the same amount of time to do their job. Yeah the freezes would surely move with the tarball deadline. There's no need to change that. Michael ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 8:04 PM wrote: > Hi, Hi, > I'd like to propose moving tarball deadlines for the 3.36 cycle one > business day earlier, from Mondays to Fridays, while leaving the > overall release deadline on Wednesday. That way, we can have the > weekend for trying to build the release. This will allow release team > more time to resolve build failures, hopefully making the job less > stressful for us. It should also help us avoid late releases. Currently > we're not able to begin building the release before Monday night > (American timezones) or Tuesday morning (European timezones), which has > led to several late releases on Thursday, Friday, and occasionally even > later. Managing a release is usually a full-day task at least, and > doing this on business days is very difficult for some of us. There's > some more motivation for this discussed at [1]. > > An alternative proposal would be to use Saturday instead of Friday as > the tarball deadline, which might be nicer for maintainers who prefer > to release over the weekend. That would still allow release team to > build the release on Sunday. > > Please, if you have any concerns, let us know. Also let us know if you > have a preference between Friday and Saturday. Remember that the > deadline still occurs at 23:59 UTC on the day specified. Weekends are usually the time when most translations get done. If you remove this opportunity, I guess we should consider freezing earlier too so that translators basically get the same amount of time to do their job. -- Alexandre Franke GNOME Hacker ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: earlier tarball deadlines
On Wed, 2019-08-14 at 13:04 -0500, mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: > I'd like to propose moving tarball deadlines for the 3.36 cycle one > business day earlier, from Mondays to Fridays, while leaving the > overall release deadline on Wednesday. Hi, my personal preference is on Monday, thinking that (community) translators have time over the weekend to finish their translations before the release. I do not have any statistical data whether any/many really do that, though I believe it would make sense to give them more time at least later in the release cycle (moving the release to Friday just before x.y.0, where only translations are allowed (without approval) doesn't make much sense to me, because there are not expected any code breakages when no code changed). In other words, I suggest to not move all tarball releases before the weekend. I'm afraid moving the deadline will not help to get all releases on time. People are free to release sooner, still only a few of them do that. That's only my opinion/observation though. Otherwise I've no strong opinion, if you'd like to move the tarball release date in order to help the release team, then I'm fine with it. Being it Friday or Saturday doesn't play any role here, I'd probably do it on Friday in both cases (because I can release earlier ;) ). Bye, Milan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
