Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On 10/30/22 19:48, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 at 18:45, Anastasios Lisgaras via desktop-devel-list mailto:desktop-devel-list@gnome.org>> wrote: There is no 1:1 mapping between mailing lists and Discourse, because Discourse is not a mailing list server. Generally, you'll use tags, but those tags may not exist yet. It's up to the people maintaining the DOAP and documentation pages to ask for a tag, if it doesn't exist. Thank for your explanation. But to *select a tag* is required when creating a new topic ? Because if I wanted to continue to only react via email, I will follow some specific tags (like previous mailing lists) so I would expect to get the "notification"/email for new topics for those tags. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Sun, 30 Oct 2022 at 18:45, Anastasios Lisgaras via desktop-devel-list < desktop-devel-list@gnome.org> wrote: > On 10/20/22 20:48, Andre Klapper via desktop-devel-list wrote: > > On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 16:48 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > Are there plans to update the https://mail.gnome.org frontpage to link > > to Discourse, and put redirects in place > > for https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/* URLs? > > The last section on https://mail.gnome.org has two broken links. > > > > Looking at Git repo content under GNOME, there are a lot of outdated > > mailing list links in DOAP files and documentation pages to update: > > > > $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.page "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l > > 44 > > $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.xml "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l > > 24 > > $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.doap "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l > > 170 > > > > andre > > It would be a *great idea* if we want to retire mailing lists to have > information about where that mailing list is now in Discourse. > There is no 1:1 mapping between mailing lists and Discourse, because Discourse is not a mailing list server. Generally, you'll use tags, but those tags may not exist yet. It's up to the people maintaining the DOAP and documentation pages to ask for a tag, if it doesn't exist. Ciao, Emmanuele. -- https://www.bassi.io [@] ebassi [@gmail.com] ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On 10/20/22 20:48, Andre Klapper via desktop-devel-list wrote: On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 16:48 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: Are there plans to update the https://mail.gnome.org frontpage to link to Discourse, and put redirects in place for https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/* URLs? The last section on https://mail.gnome.org has two broken links. Looking at Git repo content under GNOME, there are a lot of outdated mailing list links in DOAP files and documentation pages to update: $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.page "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 44 $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.xml "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 24 $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.doap "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 170 andre It would be a *great idea* if we want to retire mailing lists to have information about where that mailing list is now in Discourse. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 16:48 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > distribute any new mail after the end of October. Are there plans to update the https://mail.gnome.org frontpage to link to Discourse, and put redirects in place for https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/* URLs? The last section on https://mail.gnome.org has two broken links. Looking at Git repo content under GNOME, there are a lot of outdated mailing list links in DOAP files and documentation pages to update: $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.page "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 44 $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.xml "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 24 $:ac\> grep -r --include=*.doap "mail.gnome.org" . | wc -l 170 andre -- Andre Klapper | ak...@gmx.net https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hello Ühel kenal päeval, N, 29.09.2022 kell 16:48, kirjutas Neil McGovern: > Lists to close > - > planner-list > > Lists to move to Discourse > - > planner-dev-list I don't think it makes sense to close one and move the other, in particular that way around (closing user list and moving dev list). Can we make it as both moving to a unified "list" in discourse instead? I also didn't really read out if there will be notification to the mailing list with appropriate per-list instruction on where it goes, or those who care will have to get that done before they are closed, in which case we'd need information how and where they get migrated and so on. Basically a reply to Milan's mail please on this subject. Regards, Mart ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 12:53:15PM -0500, meg ford via devel-announce-list wrote: > Travel Committee didn’t have any activity during the pandemic travel bans, > but we are using it again now that we’re back to finding travel. Can you > please migrate it? > Sure - you've already got a category on Discourse for the travel committee, and people can email travel-commit...@discourse.gnome.org :) Neil ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 16:48 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split > them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that > should be migrated to discourse. I think you can close rust-l...@gnome.org. It only gets spam these days (luckily it gets caught), but all the activity has moved to the matrix channel. Federico ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi, On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 10:49 AM Neil McGovern wrote: > Hi folks, > > On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 14:36 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > > As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire > > > mailman > > > and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on > > > discourse.gnome.org. > > > > > > Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that > > > remains, > > > seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] > > > > > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split > them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that > should be migrated to discourse. > > For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some > cases, zero...). For those that should move, I've made sure that > there's tags in place so people can filter for a specific subject if > they want. Please see the attached. Travel Committee didn’t have any activity during the pandemic travel bans, but we are using it again now that we’re back to finding travel. Can you please migrate it? Thanks, Meg > > > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > distribute any new mail after the end of October. > > Again, as a reminder, if you have any automation that's posting to > mailing lists, let me know (Thanks to the release team for having > already done so :P). > > Thanks, > Neil > -- > Neil McGovern > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi all, Rafael is right and Claude just opened an issue on Damned Lies project to track the implementation of Discourse in Damned Lies. https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/damned-lies/-/issues/325 For localized mailing list, some are used to notify translators about changes in the modules of their respective teams. Regards, -- Guillaume Bernard Le jeudi 29 septembre 2022 à 14:18 -0300, Rafael Fontenelle a écrit : > Hi Neil, > > Reading your list-of-lists.txt attachment I noticed that some mailing > lists used by language teams in Damned Lies are in the "Lists to > close" category. These mailing lists are used by Damned Lies to send > notifications of translation activities. If closed there's a chance it > could break Damned Lies notifications, and I don't think Damned Lies > is not able to notify Discourse. > > I recommend double-checking that with GTP coordinators. > > The language team lists I found in the text file are: > > gnome-cs-l...@gnome.org > gnome...@gnome.org > gnome-el-l...@gnome.org > gnome-es-l...@gnome.org > gnome-et-l...@gnome.org > gnome-fy-l...@gnome.org > gnome-gl-l...@gnome.org > gnome-hu-l...@gnome.org > gnome-latin-l...@gnome.org > gnome-nl-l...@gnome.org > gnome-pt_br-l...@gnome.org > gnome-...@gnome.org > gnome-sk-l...@gnome.org > gnome-se-l...@gnome.org > > Best regards, > Rafael > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 12:49 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 14:36 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > > > As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire > > > > mailman > > > > and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on > > > > discourse.gnome.org. > > > > > > > > Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that > > > > remains, > > > > seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] > > > > > > > > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split > > them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that > > should be migrated to discourse. > > > > For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some > > cases, zero...). For those that should move, I've made sure that > > there's tags in place so people can filter for a specific subject if > > they want. Please see the attached. > > > > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > > distribute any new mail after the end of October. > > > > Again, as a reminder, if you have any automation that's posting to > > mailing lists, let me know (Thanks to the release team for having > > already done so :P). > > > > Thanks, > > Neil > > -- > > Neil McGovern > > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation > > ___ > > foundation-list mailing list > > foundation-l...@gnome.org > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi Neil, Reading your list-of-lists.txt attachment I noticed that some mailing lists used by language teams in Damned Lies are in the "Lists to close" category. These mailing lists are used by Damned Lies to send notifications of translation activities. If closed there's a chance it could break Damned Lies notifications, and I don't think Damned Lies is not able to notify Discourse. I recommend double-checking that with GTP coordinators. The language team lists I found in the text file are: gnome-cs-l...@gnome.org gnome...@gnome.org gnome-el-l...@gnome.org gnome-es-l...@gnome.org gnome-et-l...@gnome.org gnome-fy-l...@gnome.org gnome-gl-l...@gnome.org gnome-hu-l...@gnome.org gnome-latin-l...@gnome.org gnome-nl-l...@gnome.org gnome-pt_br-l...@gnome.org gnome-...@gnome.org gnome-sk-l...@gnome.org gnome-se-l...@gnome.org Best regards, Rafael On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 12:49 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > > Hi folks, > > On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 14:36 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > > As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire > > > mailman > > > and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on > > > discourse.gnome.org. > > > > > > Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that > > > remains, > > > seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] > > > > > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split > them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that > should be migrated to discourse. > > For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some > cases, zero...). For those that should move, I've made sure that > there's tags in place so people can filter for a specific subject if > they want. Please see the attached. > > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > distribute any new mail after the end of October. > > Again, as a reminder, if you have any automation that's posting to > mailing lists, let me know (Thanks to the release team for having > already done so :P). > > Thanks, > Neil > -- > Neil McGovern > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 10:29 AM Neil McGovern wrote: > > On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 14:18 -0300, Rafael Fontenelle wrote: > > Hi Neil, > > > > Reading your list-of-lists.txt attachment I noticed that some mailing > > lists used by language teams in Damned Lies are in the "Lists to > > close" category. These mailing lists are used by Damned Lies to send > > notifications of translation activities. If closed there's a chance > > it > > could break Damned Lies notifications, and I don't think Damned Lies > > is not able to notify Discourse. > > Damned Lies can indeed notify Discourse - there's an email interface if > needed, which is what the release team ended up doing. However, I think > a better idea is to rethink the workflow a little... I'll follow up on > the issue :) I agree with Neil here. Discourse doesn't look like the right place for automated notifications. Couldn't Damned Lies allow for translators to individually subscribe for notifications and get these emails sent directly to them? I know this requires someone to implement the feature, but I think it is of our general interest, so maybe we could request some funding for it. In the past we had an Outreachy intern working on integrating GTranslator with Damned Lies, maybe that same intern would be interested in working on this. > > > > > I recommend double-checking that with GTP coordinators. > > > > The language team lists I found in the text file are: > > There's a couple missing from your list (like -cyr) and a couple that > haven't seen postings since 2009 (like -latin), but yes. > > Let's continue over on > https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/damned-lies/-/issues/325 :) > > Neil > -- > Neil McGovern > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation > ___ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 14:18 -0300, Rafael Fontenelle wrote: > Hi Neil, > > Reading your list-of-lists.txt attachment I noticed that some mailing > lists used by language teams in Damned Lies are in the "Lists to > close" category. These mailing lists are used by Damned Lies to send > notifications of translation activities. If closed there's a chance > it > could break Damned Lies notifications, and I don't think Damned Lies > is not able to notify Discourse. Damned Lies can indeed notify Discourse - there's an email interface if needed, which is what the release team ended up doing. However, I think a better idea is to rethink the workflow a little... I'll follow up on the issue :) > > I recommend double-checking that with GTP coordinators. > > The language team lists I found in the text file are: There's a couple missing from your list (like -cyr) and a couple that haven't seen postings since 2009 (like -latin), but yes. Let's continue over on https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/damned-lies/-/issues/325 :) Neil -- Neil McGovern Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi all, Yes, please, give us a chance to re-organize translation teams workflow since most teams use mailing lists to distribute work, review translations and welcome new members. Also Damned Lies integration with Discourse is a critical part (I hope we don't lose email notifications about new PO files uploaded waiting for review) Thanks in advance Regards El jue, 29 sept 2022 a las 19:25, Guillaume Bernard () escribió: > Hi all, > > Rafael is right and Claude just opened an issue on Damned Lies project to > track > the implementation of Discourse in Damned Lies. > > https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/damned-lies/-/issues/325 > > For localized mailing list, some are used to notify translators about > changes in > the modules of their respective teams. > > Regards, > -- > Guillaume Bernard > > Le jeudi 29 septembre 2022 à 14:18 -0300, Rafael Fontenelle a écrit : > > Hi Neil, > > > > Reading your list-of-lists.txt attachment I noticed that some mailing > > lists used by language teams in Damned Lies are in the "Lists to > > close" category. These mailing lists are used by Damned Lies to send > > notifications of translation activities. If closed there's a chance it > > could break Damned Lies notifications, and I don't think Damned Lies > > is not able to notify Discourse. > > > > I recommend double-checking that with GTP coordinators. > > > > The language team lists I found in the text file are: > > > > gnome-cs-l...@gnome.org > > gnome...@gnome.org > > gnome-el-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-es-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-et-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-fy-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-gl-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-hu-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-latin-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-nl-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-pt_br-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-...@gnome.org > > gnome-sk-l...@gnome.org > > gnome-se-l...@gnome.org > > > > Best regards, > > Rafael > > > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 12:49 PM Neil McGovern wrote: > > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 14:36 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > > > > As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire > > > > > mailman > > > > > and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on > > > > > discourse.gnome.org. > > > > > > > > > > Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that > > > > > remains, > > > > > seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] > > > > > > > > > > > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split > > > them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that > > > should be migrated to discourse. > > > > > > For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some > > > cases, zero...). For those that should move, I've made sure that > > > there's tags in place so people can filter for a specific subject if > > > they want. Please see the attached. > > > > > > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > > > distribute any new mail after the end of October. > > > > > > Again, as a reminder, if you have any automation that's posting to > > > mailing lists, let me know (Thanks to the release team for having > > > already done so :P). > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Neil > > > -- > > > Neil McGovern > > > Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation > > > ___ > > > foundation-list mailing list > > > foundation-l...@gnome.org > > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > > ___ > > foundation-list mailing list > > foundation-l...@gnome.org > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ > foundation-list mailing list > foundation-l...@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-list > ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
On Thu, 2022-09-29 at 16:48 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some > cases, zero...). Hi, I think you can safely close also the evolution-hackers list. It used to be used to announce or ask development/developer related questions/info, but it's not needed anymore. I believe the same information can go to the evolution-list. In fact, people sometimes ask user questions on the hackers list, thus the two lists could be confusing too. > > For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or > distribute any new mail after the end of October. Could you remind me, please? Will there be a general mail sent to the lists about the information and a link or inline instructions what to do and how to still receive mails from the discourse related to the list, or it's up to the current mailing list owners/admins to send the sunset announcement to their subscribers? I suppose it's the former, but I'm not sure. Thanks and bye, Milan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi folks, On Mon, 2022-08-22 at 14:36 +0100, Neil McGovern wrote: > > As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire > > mailman > > and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on > > discourse.gnome.org. > > > > Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that > > remains, > > seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] > > I've gone through every mailing list that we host, and broadly split them into two categories - lists that can be closed and ones that should be migrated to discourse. For those which should close, they've had very low activity (in some cases, zero...). For those that should move, I've made sure that there's tags in place so people can filter for a specific subject if they want. Please see the attached. For both, the archives will be preserved, but they won't accept or distribute any new mail after the end of October. Again, as a reminder, if you have any automation that's posting to mailing lists, let me know (Thanks to the release team for having already done so :P). Thanks, Neil -- Neil McGovern Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation Lists to close - gnome-outreachy-list outreachy-admins-list flattr-list fundraising gnome-hispano-board-list intern-alumni-list interns-list internships-admin opw-admins-list opw-list opw-opportunities-list beast ekiga-list engagement-committee-private f-spot-list fonts girl-list glom-devel-list gnome-ar-list gnome-asia-list gnome-ca-list gnome-cl-list gnome-cn-list gnome-color-manager-list gnome-cs-list gnome-cy-list gnome-cyr gnome-db-list gnome-de gnome-devel-list gnome-devtools gnome-doc-devel-list gnome-el-list gnome-eo-list gnome-es-list gnome-et-list gnome-flashback-list gnome-fr-list gnome-fy-list gnome-ge-list gnome-gl-list gnome-hispano-list gnome-hu-list gnome-in-list gnome-ir-list gnome-l10n-ta-list gnome-latin-list gnome-list gnome-lk-list gnome-network-list gnome-nl-list gnome-no gnome-office-list gnome-os-list gnome-pe-list gnome-pk-list gnome-power-manager-list gnome-pt_br-list gnome-se-list gnome-sk-list gnome-themes-list gnome-turk gnome-tw-list gnome-us-list gnome-vi-list gnome-web-list gnomecc-list goocanvas-list grilo-list gtk-doc-list gtk-osx-devel-list gtk-osx-users-list gtk-vnc-list gtranslator-list guadec-organization guadec-papers guadec-volunteers-list gugmasters-list gvfs-list language-bindings latexila-list legal-list Legal-updates-list libgee-list libpeas-list libsigc-list Mailman nautilus-list orca-es-list outreach-list outreachy-opportunities-list planner-list python-hackers-list rust-list sfbay-social-list travel-committee wm-spec-list Lists to move to Discourse - asia-summit-list balsa-list brasero-list cheese-list desktop-devel-list devel-announce-list dia-list distributor-list docs-feedback easytag-list eog-list evince-list evolution-hackers evolution-list foundation-announce foundation-list games-list gegl-developer-list gimp-developer-list gimp-docs-list gimp-gui-list gimp-user-list gimp-web-list gitg-list gmime-devel-list gnome-accessibility-devel gnome-accessibility-list gnome-doc-list gnome-i18n gnome-it-list gnome-shell-extensions-list gnome-women-list gnote-list gnumeric-list gthumb-list gtk-perl-list gtkmm-list libchamplain-list libsoup-list libxmlplusplus-list mc mc-devel networkmanager-list orca-list ostree-list planner-dev-list xml xslt ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Moving final mailman lists over to discourse
Hi folks, As mentioned about three years ago, there's a desire to retire mailman and its dependencies on python2. Discussion is now happening on discourse.gnome.org. Over the coming month, I'll be going through each list that remains, seeing if they're still alive and moving them over [0] The main large ones that remain are foundation-(announce-)list and desktop-(announce-)list. If you have any automatic email senders for those, please let me know so we can either update your scripts to use the API, or just update the email address. Thanks, Neil [0] See https://discourse.gnome.org/t/how-to-move-a-mailing-list-to-discourse/1642/7 -- Neil McGovern Executive Director, The GNOME Foundation ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
