Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
On 7 Jan 2011, at 17:47, Maciej Piechotka wrote: On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 18:37 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: In particular, note the following mailing lists: * gnome-annouce-list - all software announcements * gnome-list - discussions/questions about how to use GNOME Does gnome-list cover the design process of user experience? You can use usabil...@gnome.org for user experience design questions -- although it's not actively monitored by every development team, the UX people there can point you in the right direction for any particular queries you have, if they can't answer themselves. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer Oracle Corporation Ireland Ltd. mailto:calum.ben...@oracle.com Solaris Desktop Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Oracle Corp. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com wrote: I'd like to propose that we move the list to strict moderation for the next couple of months - anything not to do with development (code, docs, i18n, continuous integration) related to GNOME 3 should be filtered out. Priority should be given to maintainers developers and people doing release management. Perhaps you can create a moderated list for folks that need this kind of focused participation, call it desktop-devel-list-core-team. Or make that invite only, or something like that. And you keep this list open, to discuss things publicly as we have had it for years. +1 -- Regards, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) FSF member#5124 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 11:16:18AM +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Olav, as list maintainer, what do you think? Do you need moderator volunteers to share the load, or is the current moderator team sufficient? I'll follow whatever is best according to the intended audience of the list. This including all the silent lurkers. I don't believe in setting up an additional list or anything similar. We had gnome-hackers (which I killed a while ago). Further, this is not a new situation. From what I've gathered, GNOME has gone through a few 'devel' mailing list in the past; gnome-hackers being one of them. Though experienced developers like Owen and Miguel have enough of a thick skin to deal with public mailing lists, the intention of desktop-devel-list is: This is a development mailing list and, therefore, discussions relating to the development of the Desktop and Developer Platform are the only discussions on topic. Emails which make developers feel worn down and result in loads of chatter in #gnome-hackers are emails which I consider not beneficial towards the goal of the mailing list. My aim has been to only step in when really needed and use it as a last resort. Meaning: I'd prefer people to just not respond to 'nonconstructive' emails. Though often when emailing with someone privately, you can change their tone. Just try to stay friendly and assume they mean well, even if their tone might be very aggressive. Immediately alienating someone forever just because of their initial tone seems to me as a too harsh treatment. That said, I have no problems being stricter, but only if there is a need for this (beneficial to the intended audience). And I don't mean deciding this by voting and needing a majority. I haven't seen anyone responding positively to your full moderation suggestion. However, I do feel that there is a need for something less invasive. Perhaps fast 'guidance' when needed. I've tried to do this in the last thread (try to change the tone of the conversation and warn when I think it is out of line). But it is pretty difficult (need to respond quickly to a 'nonconstructive' email before one of the 1208 other subscribers will). Plus I don't want emails discussing whether one email is yes/no acceptable on the mailing list. If nobody more says either publicly or privately to me that more change is needed, I'll assume that what I currently do is enough. Then I suggest that if someone feels things are out of line (or just heated) and they haven't seen me responding to send me an email (desktop-devel-list or any other list on gnome.org). Other suggestions/feedback obviously welcome (though cannot make everyone happy). But please don't refer to specific emails publicly (will result in yes/no discussion). PS: 'nonconstructive' I see as having different intensities. Some emails are well intended, but just very strongly worded. It does not often happen that the email is outright 'bad'. -- Regards, Olav ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
I'd like to propose that we move the list to strict moderation for the next couple of months - anything not to do with development (code, docs, i18n, continuous integration) related to GNOME 3 should be filtered out. Priority should be given to maintainers developers and people doing release management. Perhaps you can create a moderated list for folks that need this kind of focused participation, call it desktop-devel-list-core-team. Or make that invite only, or something like that. And you keep this list open, to discuss things publicly as we have had it for years. Miguel ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
Hi, GNOME maintainers developers need a place to co-ordinate efforts running up to GNOME 3.0, co-ordinate which bugs are blockers, which features modules need work and who's working on them, etc. This (the desktop *devel* list) is the best place for that to happen, but the list is far too noisy for that to be feasible. I'd like to propose that we move the list to strict moderation for the next couple of months - anything not to do with development (code, docs, i18n, continuous integration) related to GNOME 3 should be filtered out. Priority should be given to maintainers developers and people doing release management. There are places to complain about design decisions that have already been made (gnomesupport.org, bugzilla, other mailing lists), but maintainers need a place to collaborate which is not drowned in noise, and this should be it. I don't expect the proposal to be popular, but I believe it to be necessary for a successful release. Olav, as list maintainer, what do you think? Do you need moderator volunteers to share the load, or is the current moderator team sufficient? Thanks, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 11:16 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: Hi, GNOME maintainers developers need a place to co-ordinate efforts running up to GNOME 3.0, co-ordinate which bugs are blockers, which features modules need work and who's working on them, etc. This (the desktop *devel* list) is the best place for that to happen, but the list is far too noisy for that to be feasible. I'd like to propose that we move the list to strict moderation for the next couple of months - anything not to do with development (code, docs, i18n, continuous integration) related to GNOME 3 should be filtered out. Priority should be given to maintainers developers and people doing release management. Not necessary in my opinion - if people have productive discussions and just let any unproductive discussions die off on their own then the situation will be OK. - Owen ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
Hi, Owen Taylor wrote: I'd like to propose that we move the list to strict moderation for the next couple of months - anything not to do with development (code, docs, i18n, continuous integration) related to GNOME 3 should be filtered out. Priority should be given to maintainers developers and people doing release management. Not necessary in my opinion - if people have productive discussions and just let any unproductive discussions die off on their own then the situation will be OK. OK - if Owen Miguel don't think so, then consider the request dropped. To understand where the request was coming from, I think the announcement that Orca was being dropped from the GNOME 3 core moduleset, without (apparently) the prior knowledge of the Orca maintainers, or any list of things which are needed for Orca to become GNOME 3 ready is evidence that communication between the release team, the shell team and module maintainers has failed at some point. My proposal was intended to help alleviate that. So let's try to keep to the d-d-l description for the next few months: From http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list : This is a development mailing list and, therefore, discussions relating to the development of the Desktop and Developer Platform are the only discussions on topic. Please consider whether your post may be appropriate to one of the many other GNOME mailing lists before posting here. In particular, note the following mailing lists: * gnome-annouce-list - all software announcements * gnome-list - discussions/questions about how to use GNOME * foundation-list - discussions relating to the GNOME foundation * nautilus-list - Nautilus development To that list I would add Bugzilla and gnomesupport.org Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary GNOME Foundation member dne...@gnome.org ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Proposal: Moving d-d-l to moderated until after GNOME 3 release
On Fri, 2011-01-07 at 18:37 +0100, Dave Neary wrote: In particular, note the following mailing lists: * gnome-annouce-list - all software announcements * gnome-list - discussions/questions about how to use GNOME Does gnome-list cover the design process of user experience? * foundation-list - discussions relating to the GNOME foundation * nautilus-list - Nautilus development To that list I would add Bugzilla and gnomesupport.org It would be nice to have 'what channel should I choose' page - it might increase signal-to-noise ratio for lists. For example an idea about gnome-shell evolution integration should go to: - gnome-shell/evolution list crossposting - gnome-devel-list (it's about Gnome overall user experience) - gnome-list - bugzilla (which product?) - irc (which channel?) - ... Regards signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
