Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Thomas Thurman]

Ysgrifennodd Lucas Rocha:
> Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine for 2.24.

Thanks for all the work you're doing on this.

> However, some simple changes are necessary on some basic
> components that run during the session such as gnome-settings-daemon,
> gnome-panel, nautilus, metacity, gnome-keyring, etc. I have most of
> the patches ready and I'll be filing bugs for each component soon

Havoc, and apparently Sven last GUADEC, were suggesting that we remove 
the requirement for the WM to remember windows, since there's really no 
good way of doing it, and instead give the responsibility to the 
applications, who have more of an idea what they're supposed to be 
doing.  In practice I imagine this would mean the toolkit.  What do you 
think of this as a way forward?



There's a related issue that we're (I'm) in the middle of an 
experimental simplification of the way session files are stored, so I 
don't know how that's going to interact with your patch.

T

-- 
Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman
At Window on Pit
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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Vincent Untz]

Le mardi 01 avril 2008, à 15:08 +0200, Xavier Bestel a écrit :
> On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 14:53 +0200, Pacho Ramos wrote:
> > El mar, 01-04-2008 a las 14:52 +0200, Pacho Ramos escribió:
> > > I like opensuse's logout dialog:
> > > http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/1166181703_d5580ac3a1_o.png
> > > 
> > > Descriptions could also help to some newbies (specially for the
> > > differences between suspend and hibernate)
> > > 
> > > It is, of course, only a suggestion :-)
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > 
> > I have seens that image is a bit outdated, dialog in opensuse 10.3 has
> > two dialogs:
> > 1. Log out or switch to other user
> > 2. Halt, reboot, suspend or hibernate
> 
> Does it have the timeout like in the original GNOME dialog ?
> I pretty much like this timeout, it makes great sense.

I don't think it has the timeout, but it can be added :-)

Vincent

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Xavier Bestel]

On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 14:53 +0200, Pacho Ramos wrote:
> El mar, 01-04-2008 a las 14:52 +0200, Pacho Ramos escribió:
> > I like opensuse's logout dialog:
> > http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/1166181703_d5580ac3a1_o.png
> > 
> > Descriptions could also help to some newbies (specially for the
> > differences between suspend and hibernate)
> > 
> > It is, of course, only a suggestion :-)
> > 
> > Thanks
> 
> I have seens that image is a bit outdated, dialog in opensuse 10.3 has
> two dialogs:
> 1. Log out or switch to other user
> 2. Halt, reboot, suspend or hibernate

Does it have the timeout like in the original GNOME dialog ?
I pretty much like this timeout, it makes great sense.

Xav


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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Pacho Ramos]

El mar, 01-04-2008 a las 14:52 +0200, Pacho Ramos escribió:
> I like opensuse's logout dialog:
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/1166181703_d5580ac3a1_o.png
> 
> Descriptions could also help to some newbies (specially for the
> differences between suspend and hibernate)
> 
> It is, of course, only a suggestion :-)
> 
> Thanks

I have seens that image is a bit outdated, dialog in opensuse 10.3 has
two dialogs:
1. Log out or switch to other user
2. Halt, reboot, suspend or hibernate



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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Pacho Ramos]

I like opensuse's logout dialog:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/1166181703_d5580ac3a1_o.png

Descriptions could also help to some newbies (specially for the
differences between suspend and hibernate)

It is, of course, only a suggestion :-)

Thanks

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

Emmanuele Bassi wrote on 25/03/08 17:01:
> 
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:37 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>...
>> Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
>> current dialog in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel.
>> Can we do as Ubuntu's own dialog, such as change button layout, show
>> button bigger and more striking, add icon and tooltip text for each
>> button? If it makes sense, I would like try.
> 
> no, please: don't. I personally loathe that logout dialog, and love
> the default GNOME one, as it's less "in your face" and flashy.
>...

FWIW, we're intending to change the logout/shutdown process
substantially in future Ubuntu releases, and the current plan (though
this may change) is to get rid of that big dialog.
 So I agree
Gnome shouldn't use our current dialog as a model. :-)

Cheers
-- 
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Jason D. Clinton]

Thank you for doing this hard work. Dan, too.

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Lucas Rocha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  So, now the code reached a
>  functional state and I've just merged the new-gnome-session branch in
>  trunk. Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine
>  for 2.24.
>
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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Vincent Untz]

Le jeudi 27 mars 2008, à 04:46 +, Ted Gould a écrit :
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 12:04 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> > Le mardi 25 mars 2008, à 04:01 +, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit :
> > > On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:37 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
> > > > current dialog
> > > > in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel. Can we do as 
> > > > Ubuntu's
> > > > own dialog, such as change button layout, show button bigger and more 
> > > > striking, add
> > > > icon and tooltip text for each button? If it makes sense, I would like 
> > > > try.
> > > 
> > > no, please: don't. I personally loathe that logout dialog, and love the
> > > default GNOME one, as it's less "in your face" and flashy.
> > 
> > It will definitely not be the Ubuntu one. It might be changed, though.
> 
> We are planning on moving to a new dialog in Ubuntu also after Hardy.
> It turns out the large number of buttons causes people to not read them,
> and then get a muscle memory to select items they don't want.  I've done
> it several times myself.

Please work with us when you do this work :-)

> Also, I don't know of a mailing list for gnome-session, is this the
> place of any discussion or announcements you guys are planning on
> making?

There's no gnome-session list, and I don't think it'd make sense to have
one (there shouldn't be so many things to discuss), so this one is the
right one.

Vincent

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Ted Gould]

On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 12:04 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Le mardi 25 mars 2008, à 04:01 +, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit :
> > On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:37 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
> > > current dialog
> > > in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel. Can we do as 
> > > Ubuntu's
> > > own dialog, such as change button layout, show button bigger and more 
> > > striking, add
> > > icon and tooltip text for each button? If it makes sense, I would like 
> > > try.
> > 
> > no, please: don't. I personally loathe that logout dialog, and love the
> > default GNOME one, as it's less "in your face" and flashy.
> 
> It will definitely not be the Ubuntu one. It might be changed, though.

We are planning on moving to a new dialog in Ubuntu also after Hardy.
It turns out the large number of buttons causes people to not read them,
and then get a muscle memory to select items they don't want.  I've done
it several times myself.

Also, I don't know of a mailing list for gnome-session, is this the
place of any discussion or announcements you guys are planning on
making?

--Ted



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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Lucas Rocha]

Hi Thomas,

2008/3/25, Thomas Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Ysgrifennodd Lucas Rocha:
>
> > Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine for 2.24.
>
>
> Thanks for all the work you're doing on this.
>
>
>  > However, some simple changes are necessary on some basic
>  > components that run during the session such as gnome-settings-daemon,
>  > gnome-panel, nautilus, metacity, gnome-keyring, etc. I have most of
>  > the patches ready and I'll be filing bugs for each component soon
>
>
> Havoc, and apparently Sven last GUADEC, were suggesting that we remove
>  the requirement for the WM to remember windows, since there's really no
>  good way of doing it, and instead give the responsibility to the
>  applications, who have more of an idea what they're supposed to be
>  doing.  In practice I imagine this would mean the toolkit.  What do you
>  think of this as a way forward?

Yeah, this should be in the platform level. There's already a long
discussion about a session management API in GTK+ here:

  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=79285

I think this topic was proposed to be in the GTK+ Hackfest agenda but
it was dropped for some reason.

For 2.24, I'll focus on getting the new gnome-session up and running
smoothly. Hence, the session client API is not my top priority now. I
would be more than happy if someone wants to work on that.

--lucasr
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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Vincent Untz]

Le lundi 24 mars 2008, à 21:06 -0400, Thomas Thurman a écrit :
> Ysgrifennodd Lucas Rocha:
> > Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine for 2.24.
> 
> Thanks for all the work you're doing on this.
> 
> > However, some simple changes are necessary on some basic
> > components that run during the session such as gnome-settings-daemon,
> > gnome-panel, nautilus, metacity, gnome-keyring, etc. I have most of
> > the patches ready and I'll be filing bugs for each component soon
> 
> Havoc, and apparently Sven last GUADEC, were suggesting that we remove 
> the requirement for the WM to remember windows, since there's really no 
> good way of doing it, and instead give the responsibility to the 
> applications, who have more of an idea what they're supposed to be 
> doing.  In practice I imagine this would mean the toolkit.  What do you 
> think of this as a way forward?
> 
> 

Makes sense to me to handle this in the toolkit, when we get session
handling code there.

Vincent

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Vincent Untz]

Le mardi 25 mars 2008, à 04:01 +, Emmanuele Bassi a écrit :
> 
> On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:37 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi Lucas,
> > 
> > Really like your new dbus interfaces, especially differentiate logout 
> > and shutdown. ;-)
> > 
> > Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
> > current dialog
> > in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel. Can we do as 
> > Ubuntu's
> > own dialog, such as change button layout, show button bigger and more 
> > striking, add
> > icon and tooltip text for each button? If it makes sense, I would like try.
> 
> no, please: don't. I personally loathe that logout dialog, and love the
> default GNOME one, as it's less "in your face" and flashy.

It will definitely not be the Ubuntu one. It might be changed, though.

Vincent

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[Emmanuele Bassi]

On Tue, 2008-03-25 at 11:37 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Lucas,
> 
> Really like your new dbus interfaces, especially differentiate logout 
> and shutdown. ;-)
> 
> Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
> current dialog
> in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel. Can we do as 
> Ubuntu's
> own dialog, such as change button layout, show button bigger and more 
> striking, add
> icon and tooltip text for each button? If it makes sense, I would like try.

no, please: don't. I personally loathe that logout dialog, and love the
default GNOME one, as it's less "in your face" and flashy.

ciao,
 Emmanuele.

-- 
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W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.net
B: http://log.emmanuelebassi.net

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Re: Session Management in 2.24

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Hi Lucas,

Really like your new dbus interfaces, especially differentiate logout 
and shutdown. ;-)

Is it possible to add a extra task to improve logout dialog GUI? The 
current dialog
in new-gnome-session is exactly the same as gnome-panel. Can we do as 
Ubuntu's
own dialog, such as change button layout, show button bigger and more 
striking, add
icon and tooltip text for each button? If it makes sense, I would like try.

Thanks,
-Simon

Lucas Rocha wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> In 2006, Dan Winship presented some ideas[1] about the future of
> session management in GNOME. He wrote the initial code and defined
> this nice architecture which turns gnome-session into a more generic
> session management system and makes it easier to eventually replace
> the current XSMP-based session management with a saner and less
> cryptic D-Bus-based protocol in the future. On June 2007, he made a
> code drop on a branch called new-gnome-session[2] and stopped working
> on that (for various personal reasons).
>
> Since October 2007, I've been sparsely working on this new code (with
> full support from Dan) on my spare time by filling some gaps, fixing
> bugs, implementing missing features, etc. So, now the code reached a
> functional state and I've just merged the new-gnome-session branch in
> trunk. Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine
> for 2.24.
>
> If you want to know the general ideas around the new gnome-session, read:
>
>   http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement/NewGnomeSession
>
> Most of the design and features described there are already
> implemented (if not all).
>
> If you want to know what's still missing and want to help us, read:
>
>   http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement/Todo
>
> The new gnome-session is fully compatible with current session clients
> (GnomeClient and others) and no code changes are required on existing
> apps. However, some simple changes are necessary on some basic
> components that run during the session such as gnome-settings-daemon,
> gnome-panel, nautilus, metacity, gnome-keyring, etc. I have most of
> the patches ready and I'll be filing bugs for each component soon
> (Actually, I've made other necessary changes in some modules during
> the 2.21/2.22 cycle already).
>
> Big thanks to Dan! This important move would not be possible without
> his support and invaluable efforts.
>
> There's still a lot to do during this development cycle.
> Testing and patches are more than welcome!
>
> Cheers!
>
> --lucasr
>
> [1] 
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00084.html
> [2] http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-session/branches/new-gnome-session/
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Session Management in 2.24

[Lucas Rocha]

Hi all,

In 2006, Dan Winship presented some ideas[1] about the future of
session management in GNOME. He wrote the initial code and defined
this nice architecture which turns gnome-session into a more generic
session management system and makes it easier to eventually replace
the current XSMP-based session management with a saner and less
cryptic D-Bus-based protocol in the future. On June 2007, he made a
code drop on a branch called new-gnome-session[2] and stopped working
on that (for various personal reasons).

Since October 2007, I've been sparsely working on this new code (with
full support from Dan) on my spare time by filling some gaps, fixing
bugs, implementing missing features, etc. So, now the code reached a
functional state and I've just merged the new-gnome-session branch in
trunk. Vincent Untz and I will be working on making the new code shine
for 2.24.

If you want to know the general ideas around the new gnome-session, read:

  http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement/NewGnomeSession

Most of the design and features described there are already
implemented (if not all).

If you want to know what's still missing and want to help us, read:

  http://live.gnome.org/SessionManagement/Todo

The new gnome-session is fully compatible with current session clients
(GnomeClient and others) and no code changes are required on existing
apps. However, some simple changes are necessary on some basic
components that run during the session such as gnome-settings-daemon,
gnome-panel, nautilus, metacity, gnome-keyring, etc. I have most of
the patches ready and I'll be filing bugs for each component soon
(Actually, I've made other necessary changes in some modules during
the 2.21/2.22 cycle already).

Big thanks to Dan! This important move would not be possible without
his support and invaluable efforts.

There's still a lot to do during this development cycle.
Testing and patches are more than welcome!

Cheers!

--lucasr

[1] 
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2006-September/msg00084.html
[2] http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gnome-session/branches/new-gnome-session/
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