[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.183

---
language-selector (0.183) bionic; urgency=medium

  * fontconfig/30-cjk-aliases.conf:
Complete with Noto fonts (LP: #1581160, LP: #1581151).

 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson   Fri, 10 Nov 2017 02:38:00
+0100

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Fix Released

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

I have uploaded related changes to
/etc/fonts/conf.avail/30-cjk-aliases.conf:

http://launchpadlibrarian.net/345170169/language-
selector_0.182_0.183.diff.gz

Would appreciate if someone for respective language, who understands the
meaning of those aliases, could review the changes.

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Released => Fix Committed

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Fix Committed

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Ok, so now the preferred serif font for Chinese has been changed to
"Noto Serif CJK {SC,TC}". Please test this, and report any related
issues ASAP.

I let this bug report remain closed. Let's file new reports if and when
it's considered motivated to deal with further changes of the default
Chinese font configuration.

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Fix Released

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Launchpad Bug Tracker]

This bug was fixed in the package language-selector - 0.182

---
language-selector (0.182) bionic; urgency=medium

  * data/pkg_depends:
Pull Noto fonts for Japanese and Korean (LP: #1581160).
  * fontconfig/64-language-selector-prefer.conf:
Add Korean fonts (LP: #1581160).
  * fontconfig/69-language-selector-ja.conf:
New Japanese config file to control hinting etc. (LP: #1581160).
  * fontconfig/69-language-selector-zh-??.conf:
Make Noto Serif CJK the preferred serif font (LP: #1581151).

 -- Gunnar Hjalmarsson   Thu, 02 Nov 2017 00:13:00
+0100

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: Fix Committed => Fix Released

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1581151

Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Fix Released

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => Fix Committed

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
 Assignee: (unassigned) => Gunnar Hjalmarsson (gunnarhj)

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Fix Committed

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581151/+subscriptions

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Thanks Yuan Chao. Then I'll make change #1 in the beginning of the 18.04
development cycle, so we have sufficient time to test.

As regards #2 it has to be evaluated by the Chinese user community.
Let's keep pulling them for now.

On 2017-10-12 17:52, Yuan Chao wrote:
> 3. I think "prepend" is still needed for fallback when using
> non-Noto fonts?

I'm not sure of that. There is also the mechanism  - please see
the beginning of the bug description. If you switch to an English
locale, and are still able to use e.g. Uming, it would indicate that
"prepend" isn't needed.

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Yuan Chao]

To me,
1. This is for sure to go. Noto serif has large glyph coverage and better font 
(hinting) quality. I think it should go first in the alias.
2. Some old software like adobe flash / youtube (flash must die...) has 
hard-coded font name in the program. I recall UMing and UKai do some tweaks to 
overcome this. Those settings need to be kept and migrate. Also some old 
software have hard time dealing with TTC or OTF/OCF, this needs test. (maybe 
it's time to get rid of them all... ;) )
3. I think "prepend" is still needed for fallback when using non-Noto fonts?

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581151/+subscriptions

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

Since Noto now provides also Serif for CJK, I reopened this bug.

My questions are:

1. Since Serif fonts are included in fonts-noto-cjk and fonts-noto-cjk-
extra, wouldn't it be a good idea to make Noto Serif be the first serif
options in the /etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
files?

2. Should we keep pulling the fonts-arphic-* packages by default for
Chinese users?

3. If we would make the changes in 1. and 2., are the
/etc/fonts/conf.avail/69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files motivated at
all?

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: Won't Fix => New

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581151/+subscriptions

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Gunnar Hjalmarsson]

fonts-noto-cjk also provides Noto Sans Mono, but not serif.

Ok, this attempt at simplifying things may be a "mission impossible".
:-/ So we'll keep needing language specific font configuration for CJK,
after all. Guess we have to live with the fact that no "perfect"
configuration exists, which would deal with all the CJK languages
simultaneously also for serif.

Closing this bug report. Thanks for your comments!

** Changed in: language-selector (Ubuntu)
   Status: New => Won't Fix

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  Won't Fix

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581151/+subscriptions

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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Aron Xu]

As said by yuanchao, we need to deal with Serif font faces, especially
those commonly used commercial fonts like SimSun (which is free for
personal use), and some other fonts that's easy to purchase.

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
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[Desktop-packages] [Bug 1581151] Re: Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

[Yuan Chao]

For Noto Sans font, it's just for the Sans Serif family. Still for Serif
fonts, we still rely on other local font sets. The fallback settings in
those fontconfig files should still be needed.

Japanese uses Chinese characters but with some variates. That's why a
local font is preferred. Noto Sans provides all glyphs for different
locale, which meets the needs. Just currently only Sans Serif is
provided for Noto Sans.

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Title:
  Time to drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf?

Status in language-selector package in Ubuntu:
  New

Bug description:
  With the transition to Noto Sans CJK as default font for Chinese, we
  have established a fontconfig configuration for rendering Chinese
  under an *English* locale via these three files:

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/64-language-selector-prefer.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-ukai.conf

  /etc/fonts/conf.avail/65-fonts-arphic-uming.conf

  (I questioned the need for the two latter in bug #1560548, but I think
  we'd better consider the need for the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf
  files first.)

  So, if I have understood the feedback from Chinese users correctly,
  both Chinese and Japanese are properly rendered under an English
  locale in Ubuntu 16.04.

  It's my belief that what's happening if you switch to a Chinese locale
  is that one of the 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf files is enabled,
  and Japanese is no longer properly rendered while there is no
  improvement in rendering Chinese.

  If I'm right, I think we should drop 69-language-selector-zh-??.conf.
  Did I miss anything?

To manage notifications about this bug go to:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/1581151/+subscriptions

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