Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes
I actually think my work is not orthogonal... It is a complete TOSCA parser that can do a lot of what AriaTosca does, if not more, in that respect. So, depending on what folk think about it my project, it might make since to move development focus there. (It's also Apache licensed.) However, it does not exactly include an orchestrator. Instead, it targets Kubernetes, which does your orchestration for you. If folk want an AriaTosca-style orchestrator, I don't think it would be too hard to add one. AriaTosca's orchestration is very simple. I have some thoughts for how to do so and can assist, though I am not personally interested in classical orchestration. A think a better option might be to plug it into Cloudify Community Edition, which is a serious orchestrator. The Cloudify folk might be interested in assisting on that, since they do want TOSCA support in their product. I am planning on a public release on Monday, assuming I don't have to much fun this weekend. :) On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:20 PM Thomas Nadeau wrote: > Tal’s work is orthogonal to the status of the project as we > discussed. Sunil’s > ‘ask’ hasn’t been addressed, which was your guys’ action from the meeting > we had about > 2 weeks ago now. > > —Tom > > > > On Jun 7, 2018, at 9:07 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan < > s.shenbaga.ra...@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > There are some internal delays anyway. But I thought we will be having > for some info from Tal's work and assess the same, before we can make a > final decision. > > > > Thanks, > > /Shen > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Thomas Nadeau [mailto:tnadeaua...@gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:30 PM > > To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org > > Cc: smar...@apache.org > > Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes > > > > Guys, > > > > Its been a week (and well past “the end of this week”). Do you have any > updates ? > > > > —Tom > > > > > >> On May 30, 2018, at 1:01 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan < > s.shenbaga.ra...@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Sunil, > >> > >> Give us couple of days. We are discussing around this topic. > >> I would come back by end of this week. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> /Shen > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Suneel Marthi [mailto:smar...@apache.org] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:30 AM > >> To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting > >> Minutes > >> > >> @DJ - any updates - we are due to submit the incubator report , let us > know by tomorrow as to what Ericsson's decision is. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Suneel Marthi > wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for the call this week. > >>> > >>> @DJ, please let us know by next week about Ericsson's decision. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Thomas Nadeau > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > Discussing the Future of AriaTosca > > Monday, May 21, 2018 10-11AM EST > > > Attendees: Tal, Ido, Shen, DJ, Tom Nadeau, Sunil > > Tom: Does anyone want to proceed forward with Aria and how? > DJ: Ericsson has been looking into this project/area. They started > buildign the missing parts of Aria and wish to contirbute them back > to the community. Initially we discussed these things with Arthur > from Cloudify > (with Tal) and to help with our contirbutions. Other than that, we > were > always under the assumption that the communit was moving forward and > we thought we could contribute a few things. > > Most recently we have built a lot of components around Aria > (including Tosca 1.1). Issue is there are no active members that can > commit our PRs. > We are ready to contribute but need to know what the interest of the > community. > > Tom: Tal, Ido? Opinions? > > Ido: Speaking on behalf of Cloudify, currently we do not have any > committers in the Aria project. We are not actively working on Aria > at the moment - as a company we have other initiatives to work on, > and other engagements such as LF and ONAP community. I don't know > if that is going to change. > > Tal: I'd like to suggest a few options to move forward. Neither > Cloudify nor Ericsson can take leadership of the project. You can > take Apache incubation projects into "The Attic". Different status. > Can be unfrozen in the future. Taking it out of the attic is much > easier than starting a new project. Another option is to fork the > project and take it to github (outside of the Apache org). > > Tom: Thats just forking the code on github. > > Tal: Yes. We would tell our mentors in ASF that we are leaving the > project and will continue on github. > > Tom: They can fork independently and collaborate (Cloudify and > Ericsson). > > Tal: Ericsson chose this
Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes
Tal’s work is orthogonal to the status of the project as we discussed. Sunil’s ‘ask’ hasn’t been addressed, which was your guys’ action from the meeting we had about 2 weeks ago now. —Tom > On Jun 7, 2018, at 9:07 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan > wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > There are some internal delays anyway. But I thought we will be having for > some info from Tal's work and assess the same, before we can make a final > decision. > > Thanks, > /Shen > > -Original Message- > From: Thomas Nadeau [mailto:tnadeaua...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:30 PM > To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org > Cc: smar...@apache.org > Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes > > Guys, > > Its been a week (and well past “the end of this week”). Do you have any > updates ? > > —Tom > > >> On May 30, 2018, at 1:01 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan >> wrote: >> >> Hi Sunil, >> >> Give us couple of days. We are discussing around this topic. >> I would come back by end of this week. >> >> Thanks, >> /Shen >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Suneel Marthi [mailto:smar...@apache.org] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:30 AM >> To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting >> Minutes >> >> @DJ - any updates - we are due to submit the incubator report , let us know >> by tomorrow as to what Ericsson's decision is. >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Suneel Marthi wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the call this week. >>> >>> @DJ, please let us know by next week about Ericsson's decision. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Thomas Nadeau >>> >>> wrote: >>> Discussing the Future of AriaTosca Monday, May 21, 2018 10-11AM EST Attendees: Tal, Ido, Shen, DJ, Tom Nadeau, Sunil Tom: Does anyone want to proceed forward with Aria and how? DJ: Ericsson has been looking into this project/area. They started buildign the missing parts of Aria and wish to contirbute them back to the community. Initially we discussed these things with Arthur from Cloudify (with Tal) and to help with our contirbutions. Other than that, we were always under the assumption that the communit was moving forward and we thought we could contribute a few things. Most recently we have built a lot of components around Aria (including Tosca 1.1). Issue is there are no active members that can commit our PRs. We are ready to contribute but need to know what the interest of the community. Tom: Tal, Ido? Opinions? Ido: Speaking on behalf of Cloudify, currently we do not have any committers in the Aria project. We are not actively working on Aria at the moment - as a company we have other initiatives to work on, and other engagements such as LF and ONAP community. I don't know if that is going to change. Tal: I'd like to suggest a few options to move forward. Neither Cloudify nor Ericsson can take leadership of the project. You can take Apache incubation projects into "The Attic". Different status. Can be unfrozen in the future. Taking it out of the attic is much easier than starting a new project. Another option is to fork the project and take it to github (outside of the Apache org). Tom: Thats just forking the code on github. Tal: Yes. We would tell our mentors in ASF that we are leaving the project and will continue on github. Tom: They can fork independently and collaborate (Cloudify and Ericsson). Tal: Ericsson chose this project because they thought there was an active community around an orchestrator. One option is to look into the Cloudify "community edition". This does not support TOSCA proper but is an option. DJ: The important part of your last point was to use a pure TOSCA parser implementation. This is why we were in favor of Aria. I would like to hear from you (Tal) about moving this to github. Can you explain why this project was started in Apache? Tal: Pros (to github): more flexibility (including management). Cons: the management complications. Right now Aria is being used by the ONAP project in LF. The fact that the code belonged to a foundation made it attractive to that organization. WIth that said, Aria does not have a big place. There are many successful reasons for how projects are successful on github with healthy communities. I worked hard to get support within Apache for Aria and got mild support. The community at large did not support this much. Sunil: This is exactly the question I asked to Arthur a year ago. Tal: This made sense because it helped us join the open-o and onap
RE: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes
Hi Tom, There are some internal delays anyway. But I thought we will be having for some info from Tal's work and assess the same, before we can make a final decision. Thanks, /Shen -Original Message- From: Thomas Nadeau [mailto:tnadeaua...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:30 PM To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org Cc: smar...@apache.org Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes Guys, Its been a week (and well past “the end of this week”). Do you have any updates ? —Tom > On May 30, 2018, at 1:01 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan > wrote: > > Hi Sunil, > > Give us couple of days. We are discussing around this topic. > I would come back by end of this week. > > Thanks, > /Shen > > -Original Message- > From: Suneel Marthi [mailto:smar...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:30 AM > To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting > Minutes > > @DJ - any updates - we are due to submit the incubator report , let us know > by tomorrow as to what Ericsson's decision is. > > > > On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Suneel Marthi wrote: > >> Thanks for the call this week. >> >> @DJ, please let us know by next week about Ericsson's decision. >> >> >> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Thomas Nadeau >> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Discussing the Future of AriaTosca >>> >>> Monday, May 21, 2018 10-11AM EST >>> >>> >>> Attendees: Tal, Ido, Shen, DJ, Tom Nadeau, Sunil >>> >>> Tom: Does anyone want to proceed forward with Aria and how? >>> DJ: Ericsson has been looking into this project/area. They started >>> buildign the missing parts of Aria and wish to contirbute them back >>> to the community. Initially we discussed these things with Arthur from >>> Cloudify >>> (with Tal) and to help with our contirbutions. Other than that, we were >>> always under the assumption that the communit was moving forward and >>> we thought we could contribute a few things. >>> >>> Most recently we have built a lot of components around Aria >>> (including Tosca 1.1). Issue is there are no active members that can >>> commit our PRs. >>> We are ready to contribute but need to know what the interest of the >>> community. >>> >>> Tom: Tal, Ido? Opinions? >>> >>> Ido: Speaking on behalf of Cloudify, currently we do not have any >>> committers in the Aria project. We are not actively working on Aria >>> at the moment - as a company we have other initiatives to work on, >>> and other engagements such as LF and ONAP community. I don't know >>> if that is going to change. >>> >>> Tal: I'd like to suggest a few options to move forward. Neither >>> Cloudify nor Ericsson can take leadership of the project. You can >>> take Apache incubation projects into "The Attic". Different status. >>> Can be unfrozen in the future. Taking it out of the attic is much >>> easier than starting a new project. Another option is to fork the >>> project and take it to github (outside of the Apache org). >>> >>> Tom: Thats just forking the code on github. >>> >>> Tal: Yes. We would tell our mentors in ASF that we are leaving the >>> project and will continue on github. >>> >>> Tom: They can fork independently and collaborate (Cloudify and Ericsson). >>> >>> Tal: Ericsson chose this project because they thought there was an active >>> community around an orchestrator. One option is to look into the Cloudify >>> "community edition". This does not support TOSCA proper but is an option. >>> >>> DJ: The important part of your last point was to use a pure TOSCA parser >>> implementation. This is why we were in favor of Aria. >>> >>> I would like to hear from you (Tal) about moving this to github. >>> >>> Can you explain why this project was started in Apache? >>> >>> Tal: Pros (to github): more flexibility (including management). Cons: >>> the management complications. >>> >>> Right now Aria is being used by the ONAP project in LF. The fact >>> that the code belonged to a foundation made it attractive to that >>> organization. >>> WIth that said, Aria does not have a big place. >>> >>> There are many successful reasons for how projects are successful on >>> github with healthy communities. >>> >>> I worked hard to get support within Apache for Aria and got mild >>> support. The community at large did not support this much. >>> >>> Sunil: This is exactly the question I asked to Arthur a year ago. >>> >>> Tal: This made sense because it helped us join the open-o and onap >>> communities. We hoped those folks would contribute back to the project. >>> Unfortunately those folks haven't, and I am not hopeful that those >>> folks will. >>> >>> I am actually working on a next-generation of Aria. I am rewriting >>> everything in scratch in Go to create a stateless parser (TOSCA). I have a >>> lot of faith in TOSCA but the approach needs to be a lot simpler. That >>> might be out there on
Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes
Guys, Its been a week (and well past “the end of this week”). Do you have any updates ? —Tom > On May 30, 2018, at 1:01 AM, S Shenbaga Rajan > wrote: > > Hi Sunil, > > Give us couple of days. We are discussing around this topic. > I would come back by end of this week. > > Thanks, > /Shen > > -Original Message- > From: Suneel Marthi [mailto:smar...@apache.org] > Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 5:30 AM > To: dev@ariatosca.incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: Updated: Discuss The Future Of AriaTosca - Meeting Minutes > > @DJ - any updates - we are due to submit the incubator report , let us know > by tomorrow as to what Ericsson's decision is. > > > > On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Suneel Marthi wrote: > >> Thanks for the call this week. >> >> @DJ, please let us know by next week about Ericsson's decision. >> >> >> On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Thomas Nadeau >> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Discussing the Future of AriaTosca >>> >>> Monday, May 21, 2018 10-11AM EST >>> >>> >>> Attendees: Tal, Ido, Shen, DJ, Tom Nadeau, Sunil >>> >>> Tom: Does anyone want to proceed forward with Aria and how? >>> DJ: Ericsson has been looking into this project/area. They started >>> buildign the missing parts of Aria and wish to contirbute them back >>> to the community. Initially we discussed these things with Arthur from >>> Cloudify >>> (with Tal) and to help with our contirbutions. Other than that, we were >>> always under the assumption that the communit was moving forward and >>> we thought we could contribute a few things. >>> >>> Most recently we have built a lot of components around Aria >>> (including Tosca 1.1). Issue is there are no active members that can >>> commit our PRs. >>> We are ready to contribute but need to know what the interest of the >>> community. >>> >>> Tom: Tal, Ido? Opinions? >>> >>> Ido: Speaking on behalf of Cloudify, currently we do not have any >>> committers in the Aria project. We are not actively working on Aria >>> at the moment - as a company we have other initiatives to work on, >>> and other engagements such as LF and ONAP community. I don't know if >>> that is going to change. >>> >>> Tal: I'd like to suggest a few options to move forward. Neither >>> Cloudify nor Ericsson can take leadership of the project. You can >>> take Apache incubation projects into "The Attic". Different status. >>> Can be unfrozen in the future. Taking it out of the attic is much >>> easier than starting a new project. Another option is to fork the >>> project and take it to github (outside of the Apache org). >>> >>> Tom: Thats just forking the code on github. >>> >>> Tal: Yes. We would tell our mentors in ASF that we are leaving the >>> project and will continue on github. >>> >>> Tom: They can fork independently and collaborate (Cloudify and Ericsson). >>> >>> Tal: Ericsson chose this project because they thought there was an active >>> community around an orchestrator. One option is to look into the Cloudify >>> "community edition". This does not support TOSCA proper but is an option. >>> >>> DJ: The important part of your last point was to use a pure TOSCA parser >>> implementation. This is why we were in favor of Aria. >>> >>> I would like to hear from you (Tal) about moving this to github. >>> >>> Can you explain why this project was started in Apache? >>> >>> Tal: Pros (to github): more flexibility (including management). Cons: >>> the management complications. >>> >>> Right now Aria is being used by the ONAP project in LF. The fact >>> that the code belonged to a foundation made it attractive to that >>> organization. >>> WIth that said, Aria does not have a big place. >>> >>> There are many successful reasons for how projects are successful on >>> github with healthy communities. >>> >>> I worked hard to get support within Apache for Aria and got mild >>> support. The community at large did not support this much. >>> >>> Sunil: This is exactly the question I asked to Arthur a year ago. >>> >>> Tal: This made sense because it helped us join the open-o and onap >>> communities. We hoped those folks would contribute back to the project. >>> Unfortunately those folks haven't, and I am not hopeful that those >>> folks will. >>> >>> I am actually working on a next-generation of Aria. I am rewriting >>> everything in scratch in Go to create a stateless parser (TOSCA). I have a >>> lot of faith in TOSCA but the approach needs to be a lot simpler. That >>> might be out there on the community to collaborate with. >>> >>> DJ: As you already pointed out, we are trying to understand if your >>> new project would have the same attraction. >>> >>> Sunil: Attracting contributors is not necessarily related to Apache. >>> Tensorflow is a massive project that is just on github without any >>> organizational affiliation. >>> >>> Shen: Cloudify started this project on Apache. If Ericsson wants to >>> reboot Aria is
