Porting to current cocoon version
Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: - Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? - Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? - Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram
resurrect the Cocoon documentation
TL;DNR Use the Apache CMS for at least our top-level docs and the stalled 2.1 and 2.2 docs. However, i cannot actually do this work, just explain and guide. I have done some background research to try to gather the various past threads and docs. Perhaps this will help us to bring the Cocoon documentation back to life. In the past we had the sources for the docs in xml format and then processed by Apache Forrest to generate the html pages. A few years ago we moved to using the Daisy CMS to store/edit all content for 2.1 and 2.2 versions, as well as the top-level project non-version-specific stuff. For Cocoon-2.2, and the top-level stuff, the Maven site plugin extracted the content from Daisy and generated the html pages. [4] For Cocoon-2.1, the Forrest plugin Daisy input plugin extracted the content from Daisy and generated the html pages. [5] For Cocoon-3, the source content is stored in xml files and the Maven site plugin generates the html pages. All generated html was (and still is) committed to the Cocoon site SVN [1]. Then 'svn up' on the people.apache.org machine does the publishing step. (Later that step could move to using svnpubsub.) The Daisy server operated on our Zones machine cocoon.zones.apache.org (which also housed the demonstrations for Cocoon 2.1 and 2.2). The Zones server is managed by the Cocoon project. See [2]. However, the machine that provided the zones for a set of projects needed to be upgraded. The Cocoon project did not move our services in time. IIRC we do now have a freebsd jail which is basically configured, but not yet re-installed Daisy or Cocoon demo examples, nor the web server. IIRC we did get a backup of the Daisy data [3] if that helps. The Forrest forrestbot neededi to be turned off, as it could not access the source content for the 2.1 documentation. For the 2.2 documentation, i presume that Maven also has troubles. So unless someone can re-instate the new cocoon.zones.apache.org and the Daisy server, then we need some other solution. Suggestion to use the Apache CMS: One other solution would be to use the new Apache CMS. [7] It can have source content in either Markdown format or in HTML format and perhaps others. To resurrect the content, we might be able to use the last published generated set of html documents, strip off the outer headers and menu stuff, replace with basic header, and use that set of content to seed the CMS. (Some of these resources are only available to Cocoon PMC members.) [1] http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/cocoon/site/site/ [2] http://svn.apache.org/repos/private/pmc/cocoon/cocoon.zones.apache.org/ [3] Search the PMC archive for various email from Bertrand [4] http://cocoon.apache.org/1418_1_1.html How to publish docs to cocoon.apache.org (i.e. for Cocoon-2.2 and the top-level of c.a.o) [5] http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/CocoonWebsiteUpdate How to publish Cocoon-2.1 docs [7] Apache CMS http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheCms2010 http://wiki.apache.org/general/ApacheCMSFAQ http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
Dear mr. Eisert, 1. I believe it does. I am using the beta version in a preproduction environment for quite some time and it is stable. 2. It depends on what you mean by configuration. The sitemap will need some slight adaptations. Specifics from cocoon 2.2 will no longer hold. - no flowscripts - xsp is banned There is a nonvanishing upgrade effort. 3. no, it should be written. I never used all of cocoon 2.x, but from my experience: - start project from 'cocoon sample and cocoon sample webapp' - plan need for conversion scripts - adapt sitemap - adjust configuration (which is now essentially spring configuration) it depends a great deal on what you have been using in cocoon 2.x. Jos On 01/16/2012 12:51 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: * Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? * Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? * Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
Hello Jos, does that mean there is no xsp available in Cocoon 3 at all or that it's just not recommended? Wolfram 2012/1/16 Jos Snellings jos.snelli...@pandora.be ** Dear mr. Eisert, 1. I believe it does. I am using the beta version in a preproduction environment for quite some time and it is stable. 2. It depends on what you mean by configuration. The sitemap will need some slight adaptations. Specifics from cocoon 2.2 will no longer hold. - no flowscripts - xsp is banned There is a nonvanishing upgrade effort. 3. no, it should be written. I never used all of cocoon 2.x, but from my experience: - start project from 'cocoon sample and cocoon sample webapp' - plan need for conversion scripts - adapt sitemap - adjust configuration (which is now essentially spring configuration) it depends a great deal on what you have been using in cocoon 2.x. Jos On 01/16/2012 12:51 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: - Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? - Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? - Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram -- * * Philasearch.com GmbH Lindenweg 1 D-63877 Sailauf Tel. 06093-932933 Geschäftsführer: Franz Fedra, Wolfram Eisert, Walter Christ Steuer-Nr.:204 135 10911 Finanzamt Aschaffenburg Umsatzsteuer- Identifikationsnummer gemäß § 27 a Umsatzsteuergesetz: DE 112156180
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
Hello Wolfram, The first. Cocoon 3 is rather a complete rewrite of the framework. The benefit: the dependencies of the framework have been limited to a minimum. A half-advantage: the scripting capabilities have been limited to stringtemplate. This sort of enforces scripts to do 'strictly presentation'. The minus side: old xsp scripts have to be rewritten. It all depends on how many xsp and flow scripts you have out there. Kind regards, Jos On 01/16/2012 02:54 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Hello Jos, does that mean there is no xsp available in Cocoon 3 at all or that it's just not recommended? Wolfram 2012/1/16 Jos Snellings jos.snelli...@pandora.be mailto:jos.snelli...@pandora.be Dear mr. Eisert, 1. I believe it does. I am using the beta version in a preproduction environment for quite some time and it is stable. 2. It depends on what you mean by configuration. The sitemap will need some slight adaptations. Specifics from cocoon 2.2 will no longer hold. - no flowscripts - xsp is banned There is a nonvanishing upgrade effort. 3. no, it should be written. I never used all of cocoon 2.x, but from my experience: - start project from 'cocoon sample and cocoon sample webapp' - plan need for conversion scripts - adapt sitemap - adjust configuration (which is now essentially spring configuration) it depends a great deal on what you have been using in cocoon 2.x. Jos On 01/16/2012 12:51 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: * Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? * Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? * Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram -- _ _ Philasearch.com GmbH Lindenweg 1 D-63877 Sailauf Tel. 06093-932933 Geschäftsführer: Franz Fedra, Wolfram Eisert, Walter Christ Steuer-Nr.:204 135 10911 Finanzamt Aschaffenburg Umsatzsteuer- Identifikationsnummer gemäß § 27 a Umsatzsteuergesetz: DE 112156180
RE: Porting to current cocoon version
I totally agree with Jos. If your app mainly consists of transformations with XSLT, you should be able to migrate within a few days. If your complete app depends on XSP's you will have to spent a lot more time of course. But we've been in the same situation and I guess 2 or 3 people should be able to manage to port in a matter of 1 a 2 weeks. I advise you to first follow the samples demo and try to implement a few small use cases from your existing app. If you run into any issue address this to the mailinglist in order to evaluate the risks upfront. Robby From: Jos Snellings [mailto:jos.snelli...@pandora.be] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:05 PM To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Subject: Re: Porting to current cocoon version Hello Wolfram, The first. Cocoon 3 is rather a complete rewrite of the framework. The benefit: the dependencies of the framework have been limited to a minimum. A half-advantage: the scripting capabilities have been limited to stringtemplate. This sort of enforces scripts to do 'strictly presentation'. The minus side: old xsp scripts have to be rewritten. It all depends on how many xsp and flow scripts you have out there. Kind regards, Jos On 01/16/2012 02:54 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Hello Jos, does that mean there is no xsp available in Cocoon 3 at all or that it's just not recommended? Wolfram 2012/1/16 Jos Snellings jos.snelli...@pandora.bemailto:jos.snelli...@pandora.be Dear mr. Eisert, 1. I believe it does. I am using the beta version in a preproduction environment for quite some time and it is stable. 2. It depends on what you mean by configuration. The sitemap will need some slight adaptations. Specifics from cocoon 2.2 will no longer hold. - no flowscripts - xsp is banned There is a nonvanishing upgrade effort. 3. no, it should be written. I never used all of cocoon 2.x, but from my experience: - start project from 'cocoon sample and cocoon sample webapp' - plan need for conversion scripts - adapt sitemap - adjust configuration (which is now essentially spring configuration) it depends a great deal on what you have been using in cocoon 2.x. Jos On 01/16/2012 12:51 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: * Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? * Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? * Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram -- Philasearch.com GmbH Lindenweg 1 D-63877 Sailauf Tel. 06093-932933 Geschäftsführer: Franz Fedra, Wolfram Eisert, Walter Christ Steuer-Nr.:204 135 10911 Finanzamt Aschaffenburg Umsatzsteuer- Identifikationsnummer gemäß § 27 a Umsatzsteuergesetz: DE 112156180
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
It's a 10 year old app with more than 100 XSP's and specialized tag-librarys depending heavily on the XSP-concept. So that mean's I have to create a generator and a StringTemplate for each XSP. Am I right? Wolfram Am 16.01.2012 um 15:36 schrieb Robby Pelssers: I totally agree with Jos. If your app mainly consists of transformations with XSLT, you should be able to migrate within a few days. If your complete app depends on XSP’s you will have to spent a lot more time of course. But we’ve been in the same situation and I guess 2 or 3 people should be able to manage to port in a matter of 1 a 2 weeks. I advise you to first follow the samples demo and try to implement a few small use cases from your existing app. If you run into any issue address this to the mailinglist in order to evaluate the risks upfront. Robby From: Jos Snellings [mailto:jos.snelli...@pandora.be] Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 3:05 PM To: dev@cocoon.apache.org Subject: Re: Porting to current cocoon version Hello Wolfram, The first. Cocoon 3 is rather a complete rewrite of the framework. The benefit: the dependencies of the framework have been limited to a minimum. A half-advantage: the scripting capabilities have been limited to stringtemplate. This sort of enforces scripts to do 'strictly presentation'. The minus side: old xsp scripts have to be rewritten. It all depends on how many xsp and flow scripts you have out there. Kind regards, Jos On 01/16/2012 02:54 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Hello Jos, does that mean there is no xsp available in Cocoon 3 at all or that it's just not recommended? Wolfram 2012/1/16 Jos Snellings jos.snelli...@pandora.be Dear mr. Eisert, 1. I believe it does. I am using the beta version in a preproduction environment for quite some time and it is stable. 2. It depends on what you mean by configuration. The sitemap will need some slight adaptations. Specifics from cocoon 2.2 will no longer hold. - no flowscripts - xsp is banned There is a nonvanishing upgrade effort. 3. no, it should be written. I never used all of cocoon 2.x, but from my experience: - start project from 'cocoon sample and cocoon sample webapp' - plan need for conversion scripts - adapt sitemap - adjust configuration (which is now essentially spring configuration) it depends a great deal on what you have been using in cocoon 2.x. Jos On 01/16/2012 12:51 PM, Wolfram Eisert wrote: Dear List, we are currently using Cocoon 2.0.4 and plan to update to a newer version during this year. For that I have a few questions: Does it make sense to wait for Cocoon 3.0? Is the configuration compatible between Cocoon 2.2 and Cocoon 3.0? Is there a howto for moving from Cocoon 2.0.4 to a current Version? Thank you for your answers. Wolfram
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
HI again, Wolfram, It is not a string template script AND a generator. It is rather 'either'. If you make a list with all the data modifying operations that the application offers, how many would that be? - Let us call them commands. They would go into a cocoon controller. (Or two, or three). Some xsp will only be about presenation of data. You may have a choice there. You may be able to group some xsp's together. You will probably want to move application control and navigation apart. It all depends, I guess. But I agree it is quite some work and demands re-verification. However, once you get the hang of it, I guess you will find C3 more convenient to work with that the older versions, especially if you are familiar with spring. I am sorry I have no better news. Jos On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:39 PM, Wolfram eis...@philasearch.com wrote: It's a 10 year old app with more than 100 XSP's and specialized tag-librarys depending heavily on the XSP-concept. So that mean's I have to create a generator and a StringTemplate for each XSP. Am I right? Wolfram
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Wolfram eis...@philasearch.com wrote: It's a 10 year old app with more than 100 XSP's and specialized tag-librarys depending heavily on the XSP-concept. Seems it might be a better fight for 2.1 than 3.0... ??
Re: Porting to current cocoon version
Yes, maybe you are right. But are there major improvements from 2.0.4 to 2.1? One of the main reasons I want to upgrade is to use current version of Xalan and FOP. Am 16.01.2012 um 18:16 schrieb Peter Hunsberger: On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 9:39 AM, Wolfram eis...@philasearch.com wrote: It's a 10 year old app with more than 100 XSP's and specialized tag-librarys depending heavily on the XSP-concept. Seems it might be a better fight for 2.1 than 3.0... ??
