Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Daniel Gruno 
On 02/07/2016 11:34 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> +1, +1, etc.
> 
> Apache OpenOffice is overflowing with opportunities to make use of this.
> 
> I did not notice a way to indicate that a task has been "taken" or is 
> completed/withdrawn.

in the 'edit tasks' menu ( https://helpwanted.apache.org/admin/ ) you
can mark any task as done when someone has started working on it, and
it'll then disappear from the list of open tasks.

> 
> (I could have missed it.)
> 
> I assume a potential GSoC mini-project could be identified in the title or 
> short description, with a link to the JIRA place for further details?  The 
> offer of mentoring could be there too.

Exactly, you could simply make a task called "GSoC: Make stuff work" and
then link to a JIRA/BZ entry with more details.

> 
> Each project could have their own FAQ about general necessities of 
> contribution how to prepare/start, by subproject area if needed, tied into 
> wherever the project-level widget is displayed.

Yeah, my plan is to have projects come up with a short guide on how to
contribute to their projects, and have that added to the detailed task
page (when someone clicks "I'm interested in this"). Contributions are
most welcome here, I'm not sure what to write :)

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
> The breakdown into areas of contribution is very nice.
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 08:23
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
>>
>> On 02/07/2016 05:13 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>> I like!
>>
>> Yay! Glad to hear this :)
>>
>>>
>>> One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit of
>>> text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder or
>>> easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and "Expert"
>>> compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence
>>> explanation of each.
>>
>> I picked 5 because 3 sounded like too few (too big a jump between
>> them?). There is an icon next to the difficulty level that shows which
>> 'level' it is, from green (easy) to red (very hard). Maybe I need to
>> make that more visible?.
>>
>> An explanation sounds like a great idea, and we can add that as a
>> tooltip in the widget overview and as a line of text in the actual task
>> details. I can get started on that right away, whereas changing to use 3
>> levels might take some getting used to for me (and a bit of work to
>> rework the existing system down to 3 levels instead of 5).
>>
>> Or hm, what about a small (?) next to the level which shows you what we
>> expect this level to signify.?
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
> [ ... ]
>

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Daniel Gruno 
On 02/08/2016 10:22 AM, sebb wrote:
> On 8 February 2016 at 08:36, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
>> On 02/07/2016 11:34 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>> +1, +1, etc.
>>>
>>> Apache OpenOffice is overflowing with opportunities to make use of this.
>>>
>>> I did not notice a way to indicate that a task has been "taken" or is 
>>> completed/withdrawn.
>>
>> in the 'edit tasks' menu ( https://helpwanted.apache.org/admin/ ) you
>> can mark any task as done when someone has started working on it, and
>> it'll then disappear from the list of open tasks.
>>
>>>
>>> (I could have missed it.)
>>>
>>> I assume a potential GSoC mini-project could be identified in the title or 
>>> short description, with a link to the JIRA place for further details?  The 
>>> offer of mentoring could be there too.
>>
>> Exactly, you could simply make a task called "GSoC: Make stuff work" and
>> then link to a JIRA/BZ entry with more details.
>>
>>>
>>> Each project could have their own FAQ about general necessities of 
>>> contribution how to prepare/start, by subproject area if needed, tied into 
>>> wherever the project-level widget is displayed.
>>
>> Yeah, my plan is to have projects come up with a short guide on how to
>> contribute to their projects, and have that added to the detailed task
>> page (when someone clicks "I'm interested in this"). Contributions are
>> most welcome here, I'm not sure what to write :)
> 
> Surely the contribution guide should already be present on each
> project's website or Wiki?
> If not, then there should be one, and the project just needs to
> provide the URL to this app.
> I don't think it's a good idea to have yet another place where
> projects need to provide documentation.

Naturally, it would be entirely optional for projects to have something
specific to HW of course. There is a URL parameter already that you can
use to link to your existing contribution guide(s).

We could also go down the aggregator path and have projects just provide
a URL to a page or RDF/XML/whatever file that would be scraped and
displayed alongside the task info?

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>>
>>> The breakdown into areas of contribution is very nice.
>>>
>>>  - Dennis
>>>
 -Original Message-
 From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
 Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 08:23
 To: dev@community.apache.org
 Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

 On 02/07/2016 05:13 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> I like!

 Yay! Glad to hear this :)

>
> One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit of
> text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder or
> easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and "Expert"
> compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence
> explanation of each.

 I picked 5 because 3 sounded like too few (too big a jump between
 them?). There is an icon next to the difficulty level that shows which
 'level' it is, from green (easy) to red (very hard). Maybe I need to
 make that more visible?.

 An explanation sounds like a great idea, and we can add that as a
 tooltip in the widget overview and as a line of text in the actual task
 details. I can get started on that right away, whereas changing to use 3
 levels might take some getting used to for me (and a bit of work to
 rework the existing system down to 3 levels instead of 5).

 Or hm, what about a small (?) next to the level which shows you what we
 expect this level to signify.?

 With regards,
 Daniel.
>>> [ ... ]
>>>
>>

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Daniel Gruno 
On 02/08/2016 11:53 AM, Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote:
> Just to show my appreciation: +1, looks very cool!
> 
> Any idea of when we can start filling it up with real things?
> Thanks.

I've already started deleting the test entries, so you could start using
it already if you like. I'll remove the warnings from the front page then :)

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
> Regards.
> 
> On 07/02/2016 17:01, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)
>>
>> As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with Rich
>> (Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to thinking
>> whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would solve one
>> specific issue we often come across when someone says "I know X, Y and Z
>> - What can I do to help Apache?".
>>
>> Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
>> or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but off-putting
>> to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or bug trackers to
>> advertise what we want done, and what tech/person skills would be
>> helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is our
>> opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a "skills
>> -> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
>> existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
>> features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform setup for
>> these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.
>>
>> ...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm great at
>> marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I can do?" and
>> then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some that you could
>> start on right away and some that require more intimate knowledge with
>> the project.
>>
>> ...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which tasks
>> at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that project,
>> while at the same time helping the project accomplish something new.
>>
>> ...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could place
>> on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation are
>> looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when people visit
>> our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a web dev guru - is
>> that you?" ?
>>
>> Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much work-in-progress)
>> tool that you can use to browse the tasks that all the Apache projects
>> would like to get done, see the difficulty of it, language (whether
>> spoken/written or programming) skills needed, what it's about and
>> who/how to contact. You can also use the HW widget to plug your own
>> project's requests into your web site, or you can display all the
>> current tasks waiting in the system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
>> 170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get started
>> with Apache.
>>
>> The code is "live" at: https://helpwanted.apache.org/
>> A test widget is here: https://helpwanted.apache.org/wtest.html
>> (the test widget shows what it could look like on the httpd site)
>>
>> It's open for all committers to go set up new tasks (universal commit
>> bit, so to speak, just click on 'edit tasks'), and we hope it will be a
>> hub for putting people on the right path - whether that be a pointer to
>> JIRA, ML etc - to contributing to our projects. Or it'll crash and burn
>> and we'll never speak of it again :)
>>
>> Contributions, feedback, quality control etc are MOST WELCOME, and we're
>> only getting started with the proof-of-concept right now (as found in
>> svn). Hopefully we'll have something stable and polished by the end of
>> February? :)
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>> PS: Yes, I know the admin area is a stylistic nightmare. That'll be
>> fixed...eventually! And the task guide needs a LOT of work. Saying
>> "contact the dev list" isn't enough, but I'll need a word smith for
>> that :)
>>
> 
>

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread sebb 
On 8 February 2016 at 08:36, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> On 02/07/2016 11:34 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>> +1, +1, etc.
>>
>> Apache OpenOffice is overflowing with opportunities to make use of this.
>>
>> I did not notice a way to indicate that a task has been "taken" or is 
>> completed/withdrawn.
>
> in the 'edit tasks' menu ( https://helpwanted.apache.org/admin/ ) you
> can mark any task as done when someone has started working on it, and
> it'll then disappear from the list of open tasks.
>
>>
>> (I could have missed it.)
>>
>> I assume a potential GSoC mini-project could be identified in the title or 
>> short description, with a link to the JIRA place for further details?  The 
>> offer of mentoring could be there too.
>
> Exactly, you could simply make a task called "GSoC: Make stuff work" and
> then link to a JIRA/BZ entry with more details.
>
>>
>> Each project could have their own FAQ about general necessities of 
>> contribution how to prepare/start, by subproject area if needed, tied into 
>> wherever the project-level widget is displayed.
>
> Yeah, my plan is to have projects come up with a short guide on how to
> contribute to their projects, and have that added to the detailed task
> page (when someone clicks "I'm interested in this"). Contributions are
> most welcome here, I'm not sure what to write :)

Surely the contribution guide should already be present on each
project's website or Wiki?
If not, then there should be one, and the project just needs to
provide the URL to this app.
I don't think it's a good idea to have yet another place where
projects need to provide documentation.

> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>>
>> The breakdown into areas of contribution is very nice.
>>
>>  - Dennis
>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 08:23
>>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
>>>
>>> On 02/07/2016 05:13 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
 I like!
>>>
>>> Yay! Glad to hear this :)
>>>

 One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit of
 text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder or
 easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and "Expert"
 compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence
 explanation of each.
>>>
>>> I picked 5 because 3 sounded like too few (too big a jump between
>>> them?). There is an icon next to the difficulty level that shows which
>>> 'level' it is, from green (easy) to red (very hard). Maybe I need to
>>> make that more visible?.
>>>
>>> An explanation sounds like a great idea, and we can add that as a
>>> tooltip in the widget overview and as a line of text in the actual task
>>> details. I can get started on that right away, whereas changing to use 3
>>> levels might take some getting used to for me (and a bit of work to
>>> rework the existing system down to 3 levels instead of 5).
>>>
>>> Or hm, what about a small (?) next to the level which shows you what we
>>> expect this level to signify.?
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>> Daniel.
>> [ ... ]
>>
>

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Maxim Solodovnik 
Hello Daniel,

Could you please describe a bit how JIRA issues are selected to be
displayed?
this [1] query return no results :((

[1] https://helpwanted.apache.org/listitems.lua?project=openmeetings


On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:

> On 02/08/2016 11:53 AM, Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote:
> > Just to show my appreciation: +1, looks very cool!
> >
> > Any idea of when we can start filling it up with real things?
> > Thanks.
>
> I've already started deleting the test entries, so you could start using
> it already if you like. I'll remove the warnings from the front page then
> :)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > On 07/02/2016 17:01, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >> Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)
> >>
> >> As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with Rich
> >> (Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to thinking
> >> whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would solve one
> >> specific issue we often come across when someone says "I know X, Y and Z
> >> - What can I do to help Apache?".
> >>
> >> Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
> >> or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but off-putting
> >> to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or bug trackers to
> >> advertise what we want done, and what tech/person skills would be
> >> helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is our
> >> opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a "skills
> >> -> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
> >> existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
> >> features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform setup for
> >> these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.
> >>
> >> ...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm great at
> >> marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I can do?" and
> >> then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some that you could
> >> start on right away and some that require more intimate knowledge with
> >> the project.
> >>
> >> ...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which tasks
> >> at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that project,
> >> while at the same time helping the project accomplish something new.
> >>
> >> ...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could place
> >> on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation are
> >> looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when people visit
> >> our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a web dev guru - is
> >> that you?" ?
> >>
> >> Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much work-in-progress)
> >> tool that you can use to browse the tasks that all the Apache projects
> >> would like to get done, see the difficulty of it, language (whether
> >> spoken/written or programming) skills needed, what it's about and
> >> who/how to contact. You can also use the HW widget to plug your own
> >> project's requests into your web site, or you can display all the
> >> current tasks waiting in the system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
> >> 170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get started
> >> with Apache.
> >>
> >> The code is "live" at: https://helpwanted.apache.org/
> >> A test widget is here: https://helpwanted.apache.org/wtest.html
> >> (the test widget shows what it could look like on the httpd site)
> >>
> >> It's open for all committers to go set up new tasks (universal commit
> >> bit, so to speak, just click on 'edit tasks'), and we hope it will be a
> >> hub for putting people on the right path - whether that be a pointer to
> >> JIRA, ML etc - to contributing to our projects. Or it'll crash and burn
> >> and we'll never speak of it again :)
> >>
> >> Contributions, feedback, quality control etc are MOST WELCOME, and we're
> >> only getting started with the proof-of-concept right now (as found in
> >> svn). Hopefully we'll have something stable and polished by the end of
> >> February? :)
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Daniel.
> >>
> >>
> >> PS: Yes, I know the admin area is a stylistic nightmare. That'll be
> >> fixed...eventually! And the task guide needs a LOT of work. Saying
> >> "contact the dev list" isn't enough, but I'll need a word smith for
> >> that :)
> >>
> >
> >
>
>


-- 
WBR
Maxim aka solomax

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Francesco Chicchiriccò 

Just to show my appreciation: +1, looks very cool!

Any idea of when we can start filling it up with real things?
Thanks.

Regards.

On 07/02/2016 17:01, Daniel Gruno wrote:

Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)

As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with Rich
(Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to thinking
whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would solve one
specific issue we often come across when someone says "I know X, Y and Z
- What can I do to help Apache?".

Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but off-putting
to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or bug trackers to
advertise what we want done, and what tech/person skills would be
helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is our
opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a "skills
-> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform setup for
these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.

...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm great at
marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I can do?" and
then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some that you could
start on right away and some that require more intimate knowledge with
the project.

...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which tasks
at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that project,
while at the same time helping the project accomplish something new.

...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could place
on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation are
looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when people visit
our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a web dev guru - is
that you?" ?

Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much work-in-progress)
tool that you can use to browse the tasks that all the Apache projects
would like to get done, see the difficulty of it, language (whether
spoken/written or programming) skills needed, what it's about and
who/how to contact. You can also use the HW widget to plug your own
project's requests into your web site, or you can display all the
current tasks waiting in the system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get started
with Apache.

The code is "live" at: https://helpwanted.apache.org/
A test widget is here: https://helpwanted.apache.org/wtest.html
(the test widget shows what it could look like on the httpd site)

It's open for all committers to go set up new tasks (universal commit
bit, so to speak, just click on 'edit tasks'), and we hope it will be a
hub for putting people on the right path - whether that be a pointer to
JIRA, ML etc - to contributing to our projects. Or it'll crash and burn
and we'll never speak of it again :)

Contributions, feedback, quality control etc are MOST WELCOME, and we're
only getting started with the proof-of-concept right now (as found in
svn). Hopefully we'll have something stable and polished by the end of
February? :)

With regards,
Daniel.


PS: Yes, I know the admin area is a stylistic nightmare. That'll be
fixed...eventually! And the task guide needs a LOT of work. Saying
"contact the dev list" isn't enough, but I'll need a word smith for that :)




--
Francesco Chicchiriccò

Tirasa - Open Source Excellence
http://www.tirasa.net/

Involved at The Apache Software Foundation:
member, Syncope PMC chair, Cocoon PMC, Olingo PMC, CXF committer
http://home.apache.org/~ilgrosso/

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Woonsan Ko 
Really cool! I love it!

Cheers,

Woonsan


On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)
>
> As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with Rich
> (Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to thinking
> whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would solve one
> specific issue we often come across when someone says "I know X, Y and Z
> - What can I do to help Apache?".
>
> Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
> or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but off-putting
> to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or bug trackers to
> advertise what we want done, and what tech/person skills would be
> helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is our
> opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a "skills
> -> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
> existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
> features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform setup for
> these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.
>
> ...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm great at
> marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I can do?" and
> then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some that you could
> start on right away and some that require more intimate knowledge with
> the project.
>
> ...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which tasks
> at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that project,
> while at the same time helping the project accomplish something new.
>
> ...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could place
> on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation are
> looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when people visit
> our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a web dev guru - is
> that you?" ?
>
> Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much work-in-progress)
> tool that you can use to browse the tasks that all the Apache projects
> would like to get done, see the difficulty of it, language (whether
> spoken/written or programming) skills needed, what it's about and
> who/how to contact. You can also use the HW widget to plug your own
> project's requests into your web site, or you can display all the
> current tasks waiting in the system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
> 170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get started
> with Apache.
>
> The code is "live" at: https://helpwanted.apache.org/
> A test widget is here: https://helpwanted.apache.org/wtest.html
> (the test widget shows what it could look like on the httpd site)
>
> It's open for all committers to go set up new tasks (universal commit
> bit, so to speak, just click on 'edit tasks'), and we hope it will be a
> hub for putting people on the right path - whether that be a pointer to
> JIRA, ML etc - to contributing to our projects. Or it'll crash and burn
> and we'll never speak of it again :)
>
> Contributions, feedback, quality control etc are MOST WELCOME, and we're
> only getting started with the proof-of-concept right now (as found in
> svn). Hopefully we'll have something stable and polished by the end of
> February? :)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> PS: Yes, I know the admin area is a stylistic nightmare. That'll be
> fixed...eventually! And the task guide needs a LOT of work. Saying
> "contact the dev list" isn't enough, but I'll need a word smith for that :)
>

RE: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton 
I was first attracted by lightweight and non-developer tasks that AOO has 
aplenty.  Folks as how non-developers or inexpert-on-AOO developers can become 
involved.  HW will be very helpful.

A heavyweight conversation is ongoing about AOO builds (and release management, 
lurking in the background).  We can try these too, as significant collaborative 
tasks.  The identification of that can continue at dev@ oo.a.o along with 
observation that HW is up and running and ready for some actual requests.

Regarding sebb's earlier comment.  The "How to Contribute" and related pages at 
openoffice.org are overdue for some dry-dock barnacle-scraping anyhow.  A guide 
on how to use HW for AOO might also be relevant for AOO participants who have 
an HW they want to establish.  And these tasks can surely be HW listed 
themselves [;<).

 - Dennis

PS: Thanks, Jan, for identifying one more candidate for investigation.  
LibreOffice improvements in release engineering are certainly worthy of AOO 
consideration.

> -Original Message-
> From: jan iversen [mailto:jancasacon...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 05:35
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad, please excuse any misspellings
> 
> > On 08 Feb 2016, at 14:31, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe OpenOffice should ask for an expert on multi-platform large
> system build tools to consult on selecting one?
> 
> OpenOffice actually have an expert at hand. LibreOffice (fork of
> OpenOffice) has changed the build system into something quite handy
> (even though still complex).
> 
> rgds
> jan i.
> 
> >
> >
> >> On 2/7/2016 2:34 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >> +1, +1, etc.
> >>
> >> Apache OpenOffice is overflowing with opportunities to make use of
> this.
> >>
> >> I did not notice a way to indicate that a task has been "taken" or is
> completed/withdrawn.
> >>
> >> (I could have missed it.)
> >>
> >> I assume a potential GSoC mini-project could be identified in the
> title or short description, with a link to the JIRA place for further
> details?  The offer of mentoring could be there too.
> >>
> >> Each project could have their own FAQ about general necessities of
> contribution how to prepare/start, by subproject area if needed, tied
> into wherever the project-level widget is displayed.
> >>
> >> The breakdown into areas of contribution is very nice.
> >>
> >>  - Dennis
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 08:23
> >>> To: dev@community.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
> >>>
>  On 02/07/2016 05:13 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>  I like!
> >>>
> >>> Yay! Glad to hear this :)
> >>>
> 
>  One suggestion that does not add complexity, but just a little bit
> of
>  text. Try to quantify the Difficulty levels. Is "Journeyman" harder
> or
>  easier than "Intermediate"? Similarly, how do "Advanced" and
> "Expert"
>  compare? I suggest fewer Difficulty options, with a one sentence
>  explanation of each.
> >>>
> >>> I picked 5 because 3 sounded like too few (too big a jump between
> >>> them?). There is an icon next to the difficulty level that shows
> which
> >>> 'level' it is, from green (easy) to red (very hard). Maybe I need to
> >>> make that more visible?.
> >>>
> >>> An explanation sounds like a great idea, and we can add that as a
> >>> tooltip in the widget overview and as a line of text in the actual
> task
> >>> details. I can get started on that right away, whereas changing to
> use 3
> >>> levels might take some getting used to for me (and a bit of work to
> >>> rework the existing system down to 3 levels instead of 5).
> >>>
> >>> Or hm, what about a small (?) next to the level which shows you what
> we
> >>> expect this level to signify.?
> >>>
> >>> With regards,
> >>> Daniel.
> >> [ ... ]
> >>

RE: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Ross Gardler 
This is great, but...

The success of something like this is not in the tool, it's in the content.

I worry that by requiring projects to enter the data separately to their chosen 
issue tracker we are reducing the chances of this succeeding (and it deserves 
to succeed as a tool). Furthermore, when it comes around to GSoC projects 
across the foundation already mark tasks as "mentor". 

I hear the concern that some projects use Bugzilla, but the majority use Jira.

Can we do imports from Jira, filtered by the "mentor" label?

Ross

-Original Message-
From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org] 
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 3:38 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

On 02/08/2016 12:36 PM, Maxim Solodovnik wrote:
> Hello Daniel,
> 
> Could you please describe a bit how JIRA issues are selected to be 
> displayed?
> this [1] query return no results :((
> 
> [1] 
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fhelpw
> anted.apache.org%2flistitems.lua%3fproject%3dopenmeetings=01%7c01
> %7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c0d06626ee77b454e4b3a08d3307c5fbd%7c7
> 2f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=yQQSTsTOXuZ5oHv4dAyz1yIOmBCY
> R49X0zNf3N2r4pQ%3d
> 

It doesn't quite work that way. The whole issue here is that there is no way to 
uniformly do this via JIRA or BugZilla, as they don't quite have these sort of 
information fields, so this is an 'aside' to it.

You have to add the tasks by clicking on the 'add/edit tasks' link at the top 
of the front page, and then they'll show up. You can of course link to a JIRA 
ticket inside the task.

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Gruno  wrote:
> 
>> On 02/08/2016 11:53 AM, Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote:
>>> Just to show my appreciation: +1, looks very cool!
>>>
>>> Any idea of when we can start filling it up with real things?
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> I've already started deleting the test entries, so you could start 
>> using it already if you like. I'll remove the warnings from the front 
>> page then
>> :)
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> On 07/02/2016 17:01, Daniel Gruno wrote:
 Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)

 As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with 
 Rich
 (Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to 
 thinking whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would 
 solve one specific issue we often come across when someone says "I 
 know X, Y and Z
 - What can I do to help Apache?".

 Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which one?!)"
 or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but 
 off-putting to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or 
 bug trackers to advertise what we want done, and what tech/person 
 skills would be helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is 
 our opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a 
 "skills
 -> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
 existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search 
 features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform 
 setup for these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.

 ...If only we had somewhere someone could just go and say "I'm 
 great at marketing and documentation, what tasks are there that I 
 can do?" and then get 10 different requests across 6 projects, some 
 that you could start on right away and some that require more 
 intimate knowledge with the project.

 ...Or the experienced C/Python programmer that wants to know which 
 tasks at Apache they could hack on as a good introduction to that 
 project, while at the same time helping the project accomplish something 
 new.

 ...Oh, and wouldn't it be nifty if we could have a widget we could 
 place on our web site that lists what we as a project or foundation 
 are looking for right now in terms of work to be done, so when 
 people visit our page, they can see that "hey, we're looking for a 
 web dev guru - is that you?" ?

 Enter 'Help Wanted!'. It's a very small (and very much 
 work-in-progress) tool that you can use to browse the tasks that 
 all the Apache projects would like to get done, see the difficulty 
 of it, language (whether spoken/written or programming) skills 
 needed, what it's about and who/how to contact. You can also use 
 the HW widget to plug your own project's requests into your web 
 site, or you can display all the current tasks waiting in the 
 system across the ASF. 350+ initiatives,
 170+ TLPs, one uniform hub for requests that can help people get 
 170+ started
 with Apache.

 The code is "live" at: 
 https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fhe

RE: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton 
I appreciate Ross's concern.  I have a companion one.

Bottom line, I would be very discouraged if manual use were excluded.

 - Dennis

RELATED THOUGHTS 

The greatest source of issues and concerns and also some interest in how to 
help for Apache OpenOffice is end-users and some inexperienced developers.  For 
them, issue trackers are not the first thing thought of and, out of ineptness, 
their efforts are often rebuffed.  

Now, AOO uses bugzilla for worthy historical reasons but I don't think JIRA 
would be that much easier for end-users, especially since the fact that there 
is really only one JIRA there can be very confusing for novices and users 
having an urgent-for-them problem.

These concerns are probably orthogonal to HW (and somewhat for GSoC too).  But 
I think a companion use of HW by a project having a wide variety of tasks with 
quite diverse skill requirements, and an offer of some degree of mentoring is 
very worthwhile.  

I am not objecting to scanning of JIRAs for HW items, although it might be 
better for them to have a help-wanted tag, among others, since one might want 
to slant things appropriate to appearance on HW and have the label affixed with 
some degree of forethought.  



> -Original Message-
> From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 10:41
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
> 
> This is great, but...
> 
> The success of something like this is not in the tool, it's in the
> content.
> 
> I worry that by requiring projects to enter the data separately to their
> chosen issue tracker we are reducing the chances of this succeeding (and
> it deserves to succeed as a tool). Furthermore, when it comes around to
> GSoC projects across the foundation already mark tasks as "mentor".
> 
> I hear the concern that some projects use Bugzilla, but the majority use
> Jira.
> 
> Can we do imports from Jira, filtered by the "mentor" label?
> 
> Ross
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Daniel Gruno [mailto:humbed...@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, February 8, 2016 3:38 AM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)
> 
> On 02/08/2016 12:36 PM, Maxim Solodovnik wrote:
> > Hello Daniel,
> >
> > Could you please describe a bit how JIRA issues are selected to be
> > displayed?
> > this [1] query return no results :((
> >
> > [1]
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fhelpw
> > anted.apache.org%2flistitems.lua%3fproject%3dopenmeetings=01%7c01
> > %7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c0d06626ee77b454e4b3a08d3307c5fbd%7c7
> > 2f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1=yQQSTsTOXuZ5oHv4dAyz1yIOmBCY
> > R49X0zNf3N2r4pQ%3d
> >
> 
> It doesn't quite work that way. The whole issue here is that there is no
> way to uniformly do this via JIRA or BugZilla, as they don't quite have
> these sort of information fields, so this is an 'aside' to it.
> 
> You have to add the tasks by clicking on the 'add/edit tasks' link at
> the top of the front page, and then they'll show up. You can of course
> link to a JIRA ticket inside the task.
> 
> With regards,
> Daniel.
> 
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Gruno 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 02/08/2016 11:53 AM, Francesco Chicchiriccò wrote:
> >>> Just to show my appreciation: +1, looks very cool!
> >>>
> >>> Any idea of when we can start filling it up with real things?
> >>> Thanks.
> >>
> >> I've already started deleting the test entries, so you could start
> >> using it already if you like. I'll remove the warnings from the front
> >> page then
> >> :)
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Daniel.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Regards.
> >>>
> >>> On 07/02/2016 17:01, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>  Hi ComDev folks! Ramblings incoming :)
> 
>  As an aside to the 'Guiding volunteers' thread, I was talking with
>  Rich
>  (Bowen) while he was at DevConf this weekend, and we got to
>  thinking whether it was possible to make a tiny tool that would
>  solve one specific issue we often come across when someone says "I
>  know X, Y and Z
>  - What can I do to help Apache?".
> 
>  Traditionally, we've said "subscribe to our mailing list (which
> one?!)"
>  or "Go look at JIRA/BugZilla", which in itself is fine, but
>  off-putting to many people as we don't actively use neither MLs or
>  bug trackers to advertise what we want done, and what tech/person
>  skills would be helpful where (we're terrible!). Furthermore, it is
>  our opinion/assessment that bug trackers are not that great from a
>  "skills
>  -> tasks" perspective. While great for bugs and larger tasks for an
>  existing audience, they don't provide the right overview or search
>  features that one could want, and keeping some sort of uniform
>  setup for these tasks across the ASF is going to be a LOT of work.
> 
>  ...If only we had somewhere

Re: Help Wanted! (it's a title, not a request!)

2016-02-08 Thread Daniel Gruno 
On 02/08/2016 07:40 PM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> This is great, but...
> 
> The success of something like this is not in the tool, it's in the content.

Very true - if nobody's using it, it doesn't matter if it exists or not.

> 
> I worry that by requiring projects to enter the data separately to their 
> chosen issue tracker we are reducing the chances of this succeeding (and it 
> deserves to succeed as a tool). Furthermore, when it comes around to GSoC 
> projects across the foundation already mark tasks as "mentor". 


The reasoning here was, that short of implementing 50 new components as
obligatory components in every single JIRA (which would take oodles of
time), we don't really have a way of uniformly conforming to a simple
way of seeing which tasks are out there, and even then, getting the word
out is tricky. Telling someone to "go look at JIRA" can be quite
off-putting if you're not exactly an expert in navigating it.
Furthermore, I'm not aware of any short'n'simple way of taking
integrating that on the project web sites, short of putting a LOT of
stress on JIRA (and thus slowing down all web sites).

So we thought of a way to enable projects to all do this the same way,
thereby making it possible for someone to find something across all
projects, or for projects to implement it on their web sites regardless
of what those are comprised of. The widget is something I'm very pleased
with, as projects can choose to show what THEY want done, but also what
any other project would like to see done, in a concise manner.

> 
> I hear the concern that some projects use Bugzilla, but the majority use Jira.
> 
> Can we do imports from Jira, filtered by the "mentor" label?

It could, yes - we'd just write an import script for it. Possible add to
it so it could auto-close issues as well. But it would require projects
to write their mentoring tasks using a specific syntax, or it wouldn't
be able to convert it to the simple format HW uses.

If someone can come up with a syntax to use, I would be willing to write
a parser for it that adds a HW task pointing to that JIRA.

The way I see it, HW is only a primer, and JIRA/BZ or the ML is where
the actual discussion would happen. This isn't going to turn into some
big tool with user logins etc, I would keep this very very simple as an
aggregator of multiple sources as well as keep the current option of
manually entering something into the system.

WDYT?

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
> Ross
>