Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Karlie Parks 
sharon deer someone needs to take your temperature,

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:

Shawn,
maybe, just maybe, the twitter-activists will spot this and descend on the
ASF with vengeance, realizing that the Apache License (and all software
that uses it) is sexist, racist and bigoted, since it doesn't prevent
sexists, racists and other haters from using our software. And WE, the
ASF,  do nothing about that. WE are on the side of the haters. This is the
logic that is applied elsewhere.
That is one of the fears _I_ have about digging in this. It is like
searching for patents...

And YES, I am on the side of free usage of the software we produce, even by
people I am diametrically opposed to. I think it is not ASF's mission to
determine that line in the sand. All this is a political issue, disguised
with a "it is good for us" label, and many here look at the label and go
"Yeah, I favor that."

I hope I am wrong about ASF ending up being a target by the outside SJW
activists, that we are too small to bother with. But let it be known, it
has now been a predicted possibility... so don't be shocked if it happens.

Sharan,
About the numbers;
1. Most of the registered committers have been inactive for years, many
have never been active in the past and was part of a bulk inclusion of
committers via a podling coming in.

2. Are there similar surveys available for say Linux Kernel, Debian or
GNU/FSF (i.e. other low-visibility, highly technical FOSS projects) ??

3. The survey was targeted at committers. Shouldn't we also find out who
"uses" our software. After all, by-and-large, we attract our committers
from our users ("who has an itch to scratch"). That is a primary point of
"conversion" and if the selection pool is not much different from the stats
that you have now collected... (yes, speculation) ... does that mean we are
done? It is also much harder to reach that group.

4. When will the scrubbed raw data be available for the community?


Cheers
Niclas


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Shawn McKinney 
wrote:

> 
>> On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
>> 
>> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put
> his or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of
> the BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse
> of petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others,
> and to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely.
> Need I mention Brendan Eich here?
>> 
>> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> those big software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate
> you at work.
> 
> Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks
> Sharon) that provides insight into the types of people that participate.
> If that info can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond
> the typical into the atypical we would then produce more/better software.
> What’s wrong with that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe
> I’m just being naive?
> 
> Shawn
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Karlie Parks 
yes, you are just being naive shawn how insightful of you darling

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:45 PM, Shawn McKinney  wrote:


> On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his or 
> her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the BS 
> that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of petty 
> totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and to 
> marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I 
> mention Brendan Eich here?
> 
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue whatever 
> other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and those big 
> software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate you at work.

Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks Sharon) 
that provides insight into the types of people that participate.  If that info 
can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond the typical into 
the atypical we would then produce more/better software.  What’s wrong with 
that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe I’m just being naive?

Shawn
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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Niclas Hedhman 
Shawn,
maybe, just maybe, the twitter-activists will spot this and descend on the
ASF with vengeance, realizing that the Apache License (and all software
that uses it) is sexist, racist and bigoted, since it doesn't prevent
sexists, racists and other haters from using our software. And WE, the
ASF,  do nothing about that. WE are on the side of the haters. This is the
logic that is applied elsewhere.
That is one of the fears _I_ have about digging in this. It is like
searching for patents...

And YES, I am on the side of free usage of the software we produce, even by
people I am diametrically opposed to. I think it is not ASF's mission to
determine that line in the sand. All this is a political issue, disguised
with a "it is good for us" label, and many here look at the label and go
"Yeah, I favor that."

I hope I am wrong about ASF ending up being a target by the outside SJW
activists, that we are too small to bother with. But let it be known, it
has now been a predicted possibility... so don't be shocked if it happens.

Sharan,
About the numbers;
1. Most of the registered committers have been inactive for years, many
have never been active in the past and was part of a bulk inclusion of
committers via a podling coming in.

2. Are there similar surveys available for say Linux Kernel, Debian or
GNU/FSF (i.e. other low-visibility, highly technical FOSS projects) ??

3. The survey was targeted at committers. Shouldn't we also find out who
"uses" our software. After all, by-and-large, we attract our committers
from our users ("who has an itch to scratch"). That is a primary point of
"conversion" and if the selection pool is not much different from the stats
that you have now collected... (yes, speculation) ... does that mean we are
done? It is also much harder to reach that group.

4. When will the scrubbed raw data be available for the community?


Cheers
Niclas


On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Shawn McKinney 
wrote:

>
> > On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> >
> > The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put
> his or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of
> the BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse
> of petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others,
> and to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely.
> Need I mention Brendan Eich here?
> >
> > So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> those big software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate
> you at work.
>
> Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks
> Sharon) that provides insight into the types of people that participate.
> If that info can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond
> the typical into the atypical we would then produce more/better software.
> What’s wrong with that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe
> I’m just being naive?
>
> Shawn
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Ross Gardler 
I say "don't feed the troll".

Those who feel this is important should carry. Those with other views need not 
participate.

Ross

---
Twitter: @rgardler


From: Shawn McKinney 
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 7:45:43 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey


> On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
>
> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his or 
> her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the BS 
> that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of petty 
> totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and to 
> marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I 
> mention Brendan Eich here?
>
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue whatever 
> other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and those big 
> software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate you at work.

Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks Sharon) 
that provides insight into the types of people that participate.  If that info 
can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond the typical into 
the atypical we would then produce more/better software.  What’s wrong with 
that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe I’m just being naive?

Shawn
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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Shawn McKinney 

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his or 
> her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the BS 
> that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of petty 
> totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and to 
> marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I 
> mention Brendan Eich here?
> 
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue whatever 
> other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and those big 
> software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate you at work.

Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks Sharon) 
that provides insight into the types of people that participate.  If that info 
can then be put into use and expands our committer base beyond the typical into 
the atypical we would then produce more/better software.  What’s wrong with 
that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe I’m just being naive?

Shawn
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Ted Dunning 
On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 6:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:

> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his
> or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the
> BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of
> petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and
> to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I
> mention Brendan Eich here?
>


Peter,

Please refrain from characterizing people like me as petty totalitarians
just because I like to find out why ASF doesn't attract a representative
sample of the population of computer scientists. I am not trying to
marginalize or denigrate, but you, on the other hand, are clearly being
pretty insulting.


>
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> those big software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate
> you at work.
>

I am very tempted to be really rude here.

Let me just say that I am not trying to impose anything on you and trying
to understand what brings people to Apache and what keeps them away is a
key step in community building.

I suppose that I should add that your attitude is illuminating on the
problem of what keeps people away.

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread George Percivall 
Optimum software development is dependent upon requisite variety
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(cybernetics)#The_Law_of_Requisite_Variety
 

(Starting with Ashby 1956 and onward)



> On Dec 19, 2016, at 9:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> Ross,
> 
> There are any number of ways to express your concerns about whatever, but the 
> ASF is about voluntary software.  Anyone can, and does write software that 
> goes into ASF products.  A big part of the attraction is the absence of all 
> of the BS that accompanies working in larger companies in the ways and on the 
> projects that the companies determine.
> 
> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his or 
> her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the BS 
> that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of petty 
> totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and to 
> marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I 
> mention Brendan Eich here?
> 
> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue whatever 
> other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and those big 
> software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate you at work.
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On 20 Dec 2016, at 8:53 am, Ross Gardler  wrote:
>> 
>> The ASF is a volunteer run organization. We have volunteers who care. They 
>> are volunteering their scarce resources to help address an issue that many 
>> (myself included) feel is important.
>> 
>> You may disagree with the importance but since nobody requires or expects 
>> your participation that’s just fine.
>> 
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>> 
>> From: Peter West
>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 2:46 PM
>> To: dev@community.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey
>> 
>> This is one of the first messages you've received from p...@pbw.id.au. Learn 
>> how we recognize email senders at 
>> http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification
>> 
>> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce 
>> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
>> 
>> —
>> Peter West
>> p...@pbw.id.au
>> “I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”
>> 
>>> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Everyone
>>> 
>>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
>>> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
>>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this 
>>> information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>>> 
>>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
>>> Development wiki (see link below)
>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FCOMDEV%2FASF%2BCommitter%2BDiversity%2BSurvey%2B-%2B2016=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Caa934e1c336845786ff508d42860d25e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636177843696193690=yQ9va4jFjLut0u64HpyzOkM0r8JycGjB7Wl7O7XHExE%3D=0
>>> 
>>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the 
>>> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>>> 
>>> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
>>> to share or from quote their comments.
>>> 
>>> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the 
>>> main ones as follows:
>>>  • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>>  • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>>>  • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>>>  • Feedback and ideas around diversity
>>> Next steps will be:
>>>  • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
>>> Community Development related actions
>>>  • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
>>> see if they will result in additional actions
>>>  • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate 
>>> into diversity strategy
>>> Thanks
>>> Sharan
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> 
> 
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Peter West 
Ross,

There are any number of ways to express your concerns about whatever, but the 
ASF is about voluntary software.  Anyone can, and does write software that goes 
into ASF products.  A big part of the attraction is the absence of all of the 
BS that accompanies working in larger companies in the ways and on the projects 
that the companies determine.

The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put his or 
her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all of the BS that 
accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the impulse of petty 
totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on others, and to 
marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely. Need I 
mention Brendan Eich here?

So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue whatever 
other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and those big 
software houses with their diversity departments will accomodate you at work.

Peter

> On 20 Dec 2016, at 8:53 am, Ross Gardler  wrote:
> 
> The ASF is a volunteer run organization. We have volunteers who care. They 
> are volunteering their scarce resources to help address an issue that many 
> (myself included) feel is important.
>  
> You may disagree with the importance but since nobody requires or expects 
> your participation that’s just fine.
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Peter West
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 2:46 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey
>  
> This is one of the first messages you've received from p...@pbw.id.au. Learn 
> how we recognize email senders at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification
> 
> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce 
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
> 
> —
> Peter West
> p...@pbw.id.au
> “I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”
> 
> > On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
> >
> > Hello Everyone
> >
> > A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
> > Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
> > responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this 
> > information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
> >
> > I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
> > Development wiki (see link below)
> >
> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FCOMDEV%2FASF%2BCommitter%2BDiversity%2BSurvey%2B-%2B2016=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Caa934e1c336845786ff508d42860d25e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636177843696193690=yQ9va4jFjLut0u64HpyzOkM0r8JycGjB7Wl7O7XHExE%3D=0
> >
> > In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the 
> > time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
> >
> > We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
> > to share or from quote their comments.
> >
> > I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the 
> > main ones as follows:
> >   • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
> >   • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
> >   • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
> >   • Feedback and ideas around diversity
> > Next steps will be:
> >   • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
> > Community Development related actions
> >   • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
> > see if they will result in additional actions
> >   • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate 
> > into diversity strategy
> > Thanks
> > Sharan
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org


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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Ted Dunning 
On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Peter West  wrote:

> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
>


These are volunteer resources. They are not your resources. They aren't the
ASF's resources.

Why does ASF spend scarce resources on incubating new projects? Or
developing code?

If a volunteer has an itch let them get on with scratching it!

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Daniel Ruggeri 
As with ANY organization, diversity is very important for all sorts of reasons. 
Diversity of thought challenges the status quo. Diversity of perspective 
encourages a different way of looking at things. Diversity of history and 
motivation brings together different REASONS to move forward. Diversity of 
knowledge breeds mentoring and growth for both the teacher and the learner. 
Diversity, simply put, keeps a group from becoming a closed off echo chamber 
where ideation and innovation is stifled. A lack of diversity within the ranks 
of committers and contributors shows potential weaknesses that we, as a 
community when considering why diversity is valuable, should WANT to understand 
and consciously decide if it does represent a problem.

The ASF powers much of the software that makes the tech world turn. This alone 
is an awesome responsibility and one that the community which supports the 
communities (comdev, namely) has to be aware of. To me, the scope of our "work" 
becomes an amplification factor for the importance of diversity.

I know I am mostly a lurker on these lists, but the diversity discussion is 
particularly near and dear to some of us... especially those sensitive to the 
general lack of representation of women in technology (which I'll point out the 
data shows to be our greatest disparity in participation). As folks generally 
driven by data and hard facts, I guess I'd like to take this opportunity to 
raise the REALLY hard questions. The numbers seem to indicate we do, indeed, 
have some strong disparities (gender and race). Do we think this is a problem? 
If so, how do we address it?
-- 
Daniel Ruggeri


 Original Message 
From: Peter West 
Sent: December 19, 2016 4:45:49 PM CST
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce resources 
being devoted to it? Seriously.

—
Peter West
p...@pbw.id.au
“I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone
> 
> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that responded 
> to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this information 
> and see what it tells us about our committer base. 
> 
> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
> Development wiki (see link below)
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
> 
> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.  
> 
> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
> to share or from quote their comments.
> 
> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
> ones as follows:
>   • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>   • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>   • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>   • Feedback and ideas around diversity
> Next steps will be:
>   • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
> Community Development related actions 
>   • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
> see if they will result in additional actions
>   • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
> diversity strategy
> Thanks
> Sharan
> 
> 


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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Dave Fisher 
The ASF is a volunteer organization of individual people. Some volunteers 
choose to spend their efforts on how the ASF might make our communities better.

This is the community development group and the correct place for individuals 
to "scratch that itch". This ought to be a safe conflict free place for that 
exploration.

If your time is scarce then please feel free to ignore this thread.

All the best,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 4:45 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce 
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
> 
> —
> Peter West
> p...@pbw.id.au
> “I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”
> 
>> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone
>> 
>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
>> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this 
>> information and see what it tells us about our committer base. 
>> 
>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
>> Development wiki (see link below)
>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
>> 
>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
>> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.  
>> 
>> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
>> to share or from quote their comments.
>> 
>> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
>> ones as follows:
>>• Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>• Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>>• Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>>• Feedback and ideas around diversity
>> Next steps will be:
>>• Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
>> Community Development related actions 
>>• Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to see 
>> if they will result in additional actions
>>• Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
>> diversity strategy
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -
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RE: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Ross Gardler 
The ASF is a volunteer run organization. We have volunteers who care. They are 
volunteering their scarce resources to help address an issue that many (myself 
included) feel is important.



You may disagree with the importance but since nobody requires or expects your 
participation that’s just fine.



Sent from Mail for Windows 10



From: Peter West
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 2:46 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey



This is one of the first messages you've received from p...@pbw.id.au. Learn 
how we recognize email senders at http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification

Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce resources 
being devoted to it? Seriously.

—
Peter West
p...@pbw.id.au
“I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
>
> Hello Everyone
>
> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that responded 
> to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this information 
> and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>
> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
> Development wiki (see link below)
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcwiki.apache.org%2Fconfluence%2Fdisplay%2FCOMDEV%2FASF%2BCommitter%2BDiversity%2BSurvey%2B-%2B2016=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7Caa934e1c336845786ff508d42860d25e%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636177843696193690=yQ9va4jFjLut0u64HpyzOkM0r8JycGjB7Wl7O7XHExE%3D=0
>
> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>
> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
> to share or from quote their comments.
>
> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
> ones as follows:
>   • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>   • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>   • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>   • Feedback and ideas around diversity
> Next steps will be:
>   • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
> Community Development related actions
>   • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
> see if they will result in additional actions
>   • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
> diversity strategy
> Thanks
> Sharan
>
>


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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Peter West 
Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce resources 
being devoted to it? Seriously.

—
Peter West
p...@pbw.id.au
“I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone
> 
> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that responded 
> to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this information 
> and see what it tells us about our committer base. 
> 
> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
> Development wiki (see link below)
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
> 
> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.  
> 
> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
> to share or from quote their comments.
> 
> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
> ones as follows:
>   • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>   • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>   • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>   • Feedback and ideas around diversity
> Next steps will be:
>   • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
> Community Development related actions 
>   • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
> see if they will result in additional actions
>   • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
> diversity strategy
> Thanks
> Sharan
> 
> 


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Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

2016-12-19 Thread Sharan F 

Hello Everyone

A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting 
the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect 
this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.


I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
Development wiki (see link below)


https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016

In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the 
time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.


We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their 
permission to share or from quote their comments.


I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the 
main ones as follows:


1. Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
2. Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
3. Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
4. Feedback and ideas around diversity

Next steps will be:

 * Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential
   Community Development related actions
 * Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to
   see if they will result in additional actions
 * Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate
   into diversity strategy

Thanks
Sharan

AW: Who at Apache is participating through their disability? (Was: Re: Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache)

2016-12-19 Thread Matthias Heinze 




Gesendet von meinem Windows 10 Phone



Von: William A Rowe Jr
Gesendet: Samstag, 17. Dezember 2016 08:12
An: ComDev
Betreff: Who at Apache is participating through their disability? (Was: Re: 
Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache)



On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 3:09 PM, Raphael Bircher 
wrote:

> Hi people
>
> The question is in the subject: It would just be interesting. Ok, many
> people allready know, I have a physical disability called ICP (Infantile
> cerebral palsy). I just want to know, if there are others.
>
> I think, ASF could be a chance for disabled people to get work. The model
> of the ASF is perfect for this. You can get in without having any diplom or
> reference. Here everyone can get the chance


Hi again Raphael!

I'd like to apologize for the behavior of my colleagues.

I did not know (and of the 500-or-so members am equally unaware)
of most of my fellow Members' and own project committers'
disabilities, except the few that have shared that data. I could not
have anticipated it through their interactions and participation.

I also think, ASF provides tremendous opportunities for individuals
in any situation to offer great code, or documentation, or user help
or other facilities than enhance our projects.

I'm glad you raised this question and hope you find connections,
and would be happy to learn any suggestions you have to offer.


--- hard break - delete from replies -or- new subject: to reply ---

I am starting from square one because I'm very dismayed that so
many people who oppose and support such inclusion have hijacked
your thread, and both antagonists and apologists have turned this
very very simple inquiry into yet another multi-headed hydra. I do
wish we could all quit it.

So I'm launching your thread all over again to find out whether the
ASF is helping, and where it is hindering, where that occurs. Read
some very interesting data on color blindness yesterday, how very
simply it is to design GUI's around typical impediments, but there
are limited free resources to guide such design. Much more
profound disabilities are harder to anticipate, but knowing that
alt-tags and how screen readers are used frequently is a solid start.
If  you have other specific concerns or suggestions to aid participants,
let's start some actionable threads.

Re: Diversity: How many disabled people are at Apache

2016-12-19 Thread Matthew Sacks 
+1

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 11:38 AM Shane Curcuru 
wrote:

> For those who don't read opensource.com, there was a great overview
>
> article on some of the diversity programs at other open source groups:
>
>
>
> https://opensource.com/article/16/12/yearbook-open-source-diversity-efforts
>
>
>
> - Shane
>
>
>
> -
>
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