Re: Veto! Veto?
On 21/03/2015 19:24, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: If in stead of the veto possibility the simple majority rule was at play, it might have been so that fewer project would have reported consecutively that no new people were onboarded A lack of new people on-boarded does not necessarily indicate a project in trouble (though it may do so). More often than not in my experience (at least outside of the Incubator which is a special case) it represents an established mature project with a low rate of turnover and attrition in the active community. If the PMC worries they are stagnating personnel wise they should report that in their board report or a PMC member could report privately to board@ if they think there is an issue that the PMC is not publicly acknowledging. On the other hand if the board thinks the projects lack of new committers/PMC members is an issue then they can and will follow up on that with the relevant PMC. Rob
Re: Disk space requirement for building on Windows
Using an alternative approach would not make any difference It is a fundamental bug in Windows memory mapped files that means that a JVM can never guarantee to completely release memory mapped files while the JVM is alive. Andy has posted this many times on threads about TDB on Windows in the past. No workaround we could attempt could ever solve the issue on Windows so there is really no point in expending effort changing something low level that otherwise works fine across multiple platforms. Rob On 10/03/2015 10:25, Stian Soiland-Reyes st...@apache.org wrote: Thanks, Rob! I tried looking yesterday at ways to reduce the disk space requirements when building on Windows - including truncating the files after closing. This seems to require deep changes into TDBs ChannelManager which keeps the corresponding FileChannels - perhaps a new method for that purpose? https://github.com/apache/jena/blob/master/jena-tdb/src/main/java/com/hp/h pl/jena/tdb/base/file/ChannelManager.java It seems on Windows with Oracle/OpenJDK you can call System.gc() to (hopefully) release the ByteBuffers that lock the memory regions (and then making the files deletable) - but this adds a significant overhead. The dispose methods on ByteBufferImpls are not easily accessible - you would need some introspection hackery to get hold of that cleaner() and that would of course only work on Oracle/OpenJDK. as fc.map() still does the same thing. Close your eyes - GPL3! https://github.com/stain/jdk8u/blob/master/src/share/classes/java/nio/Dire ct-X-Buffer.java.template#L72 http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/root/jdk/openjdk/8-b 132/java/nio/DirectByteBuffer.java/#72 I tried using the FileChannels from JDK7 NIO2 (e.g. FileChannel.open(Path)) instead of through RandomAccessFile - but it did not make any difference Perhaps System.gc() is not worth it in general (* on Windows) when closing a dataset - I tried to modify the ChannelManager to always do this on release, it meant each test in jena-jdbc-tdb took 1.5s instead of 0.2s, but it did allow me to delete the used folders from target/ while the JVM/test was running. For the tests we could do something like for every 10 tests do System.gc() and wipe the old data. Perhaps Fuseki 2 could do System.gc() on [Remove] SystemTDB.isWindows. On 10 March 2015 at 10:00, ASF GitHub Bot (JIRA) j...@apache.org wrote: [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-897?page=com.atlassian.jira.pl ugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanelfocusedCommentId=14354617#com ment-14354617 ] ASF GitHub Bot commented on JENA-897: - Github user asfgit closed the pull request at: https://github.com/apache/jena/pull/41 jena-jdbc-tdb tests use %TEMP% instead of target/ - Key: JENA-897 URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JENA-897 Project: Apache Jena Issue Type: Bug Components: JDBC Affects Versions: Jena 2.12.1, Jena 2.13.0 Environment: Windowx 8.0 x64, C: with 34 GB free Reporter: Stian Soiland-Reyes Priority: Critical Fix For: Jena 2.13.1 .. and thus mvn clean install on Windows will easily consume 37 GB on C: and run out of disk space - even if Jena is built on a larger partition. -- This message was sent by Atlassian JIRA (v6.3.4#6332) -- Stian Soiland-Reyes Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons RDF (incubating) http://orcid.org/-0001-9842-9718
Re: Apache Reporter Service
Setting the fake date didn't seem to do the trick and actually broke the mock up release timeline graphic someone already hacked in I like the time line somebody already mocked up though it doesn't display that nicely in Safari at least. The other thing I was thinking of was a simple graph similar to the mailing list subscriber graphs that just graphs number of releases per reporting period Rob On 03/03/2015 11:51, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: Hi Rob, If the release you messed up is within the last 3 months, you can just override it with a fake older date and make it go out of view (add the release again and set the date to 1970-01-01 for instance). I'll work on a smarter editing feature soon. Viewing previous release cycles and such would indeed be cool, but I'd probably need some sort of mock-up from you to be able to create it - I'm not sure how it should be displayed and what info to include. I'm not saying you should open up ye olde MS Paint and draw something, but some sort of visual idea would be nice. With regards, Daniel. On 2015-03-03 12:44, Rob Vesse wrote: Daniel This is really cool Quick question - how do we correct errors in the release data? I just went through and added all the releases for the PMC of which I am a member and realised I made a typo in the version number for one of our releases. Where do I go to correct this? Also it would be nice if the web UI would allow you to view all the releases and give you average release cadence Keep up the great work! Thanks, Rob On 03/03/2015 10:50, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: Hi folks, as some of you will have noticed, either by the commits I just made or conversations going on elsewhere, I have started work on a new helper system for PMCs called the Apache Reporter Service. This is sort of an external addition to Whimsy, and shows various statistics and data for projects, designed to aid chairs (and other lurkers) in viewing and compiling data for board reports. The system is now live at: https://reporter.apache.org - you will need to be a PMC member of a project to view this site, and you will - in general - only be shown data for projects where you are on the PMC. The system will show you: - Your next report date and the chair of the project - PMC and committership changes over the past 3 months, as well as latest additions if 3 months ago - The latest releases done this quarter (if added by RMs) - Mailing list statistics: number of subscribers as well as number of emails sent this quarter and the previous - JIRA tickets opened/closed this quarter (if correctly mapped within the system) - A mock-up of a board report, with the above data compiled into it (to be edited heavily by the chair!) Quick-navigation (hot-links) can be done by using the LDAP name of a project in the URL, for instance: https://reporter.apache.org/?apr would navigate directly to the Apache Portable Runtime project if you are on that PMC (or a member of the foundation). The report mock-up is meant as a help only, not a canonical template for board reports. Vital items, such as community activity and board issues are intentionally left for the reporter (chair) to fill out, and heaven help the woman/man who submits a report with these fields left as default ;). Later today, I plan to enable the distribution watching part of this service, which will send reminders to anyone who pushes a release, that they should (not required, but if they want to!) add their release data to the system, so as to help others using the system to get an overview of the status of any given project. I have already gotten a lot of really useful feedback, but if you see something you'd like to change, either shoot me an email here on the comdev list, or commit a change to the system in svn. With regards, Daniel.
Re: Apache Reporter Service
Daniel This is really cool Quick question - how do we correct errors in the release data? I just went through and added all the releases for the PMC of which I am a member and realised I made a typo in the version number for one of our releases. Where do I go to correct this? Also it would be nice if the web UI would allow you to view all the releases and give you average release cadence Keep up the great work! Thanks, Rob On 03/03/2015 10:50, Daniel Gruno humbed...@apache.org wrote: Hi folks, as some of you will have noticed, either by the commits I just made or conversations going on elsewhere, I have started work on a new helper system for PMCs called the Apache Reporter Service. This is sort of an external addition to Whimsy, and shows various statistics and data for projects, designed to aid chairs (and other lurkers) in viewing and compiling data for board reports. The system is now live at: https://reporter.apache.org - you will need to be a PMC member of a project to view this site, and you will - in general - only be shown data for projects where you are on the PMC. The system will show you: - Your next report date and the chair of the project - PMC and committership changes over the past 3 months, as well as latest additions if 3 months ago - The latest releases done this quarter (if added by RMs) - Mailing list statistics: number of subscribers as well as number of emails sent this quarter and the previous - JIRA tickets opened/closed this quarter (if correctly mapped within the system) - A mock-up of a board report, with the above data compiled into it (to be edited heavily by the chair!) Quick-navigation (hot-links) can be done by using the LDAP name of a project in the URL, for instance: https://reporter.apache.org/?apr would navigate directly to the Apache Portable Runtime project if you are on that PMC (or a member of the foundation). The report mock-up is meant as a help only, not a canonical template for board reports. Vital items, such as community activity and board issues are intentionally left for the reporter (chair) to fill out, and heaven help the woman/man who submits a report with these fields left as default ;). Later today, I plan to enable the distribution watching part of this service, which will send reminders to anyone who pushes a release, that they should (not required, but if they want to!) add their release data to the system, so as to help others using the system to get an overview of the status of any given project. I have already gotten a lot of really useful feedback, but if you see something you'd like to change, either shoot me an email here on the comdev list, or commit a change to the system in svn. With regards, Daniel.
Re: GSoC 2015 - very little interest so far
Uli Just did a quick run through for the Jena project, I found we had a bunch of things labelled as gsoc but not as gsoc2015 In general there seems to be lots of open issues in JIRA which are labelled gsoc and not labelled gsoc2015 http://s.apache.org/open-gsoc-not-2015 There are a few projects in particular that have a lot of issues labelled so may be worth reaching out to those PMCs and see which (if any) they still would consider as being valid for this years GSoC and getting them to update them. I will bug a few communities that I am involved in to remind them about this though none of those communities are reflected in the above mentioned link - they either already labelled stuff up or have nothing labelled up - so I will bug the latter group Rob On 10/02/2015 22:24, Ulrich Stärk u...@spielviel.de wrote: Hi Folks, Our ideas list for GSoC projects [1] so far has only 38 entries. IMO this number is extremely low given the number of projects at Apache. I conclude that interest in GSoC this year is either very low or that my initial email has not reached the right people. Please help me spread the word by reminding your projects' communities of GSoC and the great opportunity for community building it provides. Thanks, Uli [1] http://s.apache.org/gsoc2015ideas
Re: ApacheCon NA CFP closed
On 03/02/2015 01:11, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: We should really make that clear to people, I strongly believe the general opinion is non-project talks are not welcome. I base this on the fact that a number of talks for Denver and Budapest was rejected for being too company like. Having been a reviewer for both last years events I would say that the issue was not that there were talks that were too company like but that there were some talks that looked to be pure product pitches which as I understood it was not the style of content desired. Talks from an enterprise/company perspective e.g. use cases, implementation and deployment experiences, integration efforts, how to adopt Apache Foo, how Apache Bar can save you money etc. are great and exactly the kind of content we want to attract a wider non-Apache audience and are most certainly welcome but relatively few of these actually get submitted. This is partly because the CFP is primarily marketed within the ASF where people have an understanding that they participate as individuals and not as companies so people tend to submit talks about the ASF and its projects. However talks that are just product pitches i.e. here's our commercial product we built with all this open source and now want to sell you are the types of talks that shift ApacheCon from being a technical conference to being a business/marketing conference which kinda jars with the goals of the ASF. So however it gets marketed in future we need to strike the right balance such that we don't turn it into just another marketing conference while finding ways to attract a broader audience Rob
Re: Some maturity model comments
On 15/01/2015 11:33, Bertrand Delacretaz bdelacre...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Rob Vesse rve...@dotnetrdf.org wrote: ... I think the LC50 is actually correct but could perhaps be phrased better... I've used your suggestion, thanks! Great QU30: Agreed, some projects may not do anything that is attack prone... Added a footnote ...Should there be a CS60 about the rare need for private discussions... I have added a mention of that in CS50 with a footnote, does that work for you? Yes I think that is much nicer wording and I agree that it best belongs in a footnote Rob -Bertrand
Re: Some maturity model comments
LC50: I think the LC50 is actually correct but could perhaps be phrased better My understanding was that the ASF owns the copyright for the collective work of the project I.e. releases. As Benson notes contributors retain copyright on their contributions but grant the ASF a perpetual license to their contributions QU30: Agreed, some projects may not do anything that is attack prone or are likely only to be run such that any security is provided by whatever runtime they use and the security of that runtime is well beyond the purview of the project. Consensus building: Should there be a CS60 about the rare need for private discussions CS60: In rare situations (typically security, brand enforcement, legal and personnel discussions) the project may need to first reach consensus in private in which case the project should use their official private communications channel such that these rare private discussions are privately archived. The outcomes of such consensus should where possible be discussed in public as soon as it is appropriate to do so. That isn't great wording but hopefully you get what I am trying to convey - projects should rarely discuss in private and any discussions should become public as soon as it is possible to do so Rob On 14/01/2015 15:33, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote: CD40: perhaps change 'previous version' to 'released version' CD50: the committer is not necessarily the author; someone might read this and not understand what it implies for committers committing contributions via all of the channels allowed for by the AL. One patch would be 'immediate provenance', another would be some more lengthier language about the process. LC20: do we need to explain what we mean by 'dependencies'? This has been a point of friction. Expand or footnote to the distinctions between essential and optional? LC50: the footnote seems wrong; the ASF does not own copyright, rather, the author retains, and grants the license. RE40: do you want to add an explicit statement that legal responsibility falls upon the head of the person who happened to run the build? QU20: Maybe we need to expands on 'secure'? Maybe this is too strong? What's wrong with building a product that is explicitly not intended for use attack-prone environments. QU40: Not all communities might agree. Some communities might see themselves as building fast-moving products. Some communities may lack the level of volunteer effort required to satisfy this. Does this make them immature, or just a group of volunteers with different priorities? IN10: I fear that a more detailed definition of independence is going to be called for here to avoid controversy.
Re: Attendee Numbers for ApacheCon EU?
jan - Thanks for going the extra mile to get me that information, it is much appreciated rich - Many thanks to you, the Linux Foundation and all the volunteers who helped make another great conference Best Regards, Rob On 25/11/2014 22:18, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: On 11/25/2014 06:36 AM, Rob Vesse wrote: Does anyone have an attendance figures for last weeks ApacheCon EU since I ideally need to include it in my conference trip report? Also one of the conference volunteers mentioned in passing that they were counting attendees in individual sessions. If they were is this data going to be collated and shared anywhere? I'll try to get that information into a shareable format soonish. Still frantically catching up from being offline for so long. Thanks so much for speaking. --Rich -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
Attendee Numbers for ApacheCon EU?
Does anyone have an attendance figures for last weeks ApacheCon EU since I ideally need to include it in my conference trip report? Also one of the conference volunteers mentioned in passing that they were counting attendees in individual sessions. If they were is this data going to be collated and shared anywhere? Thanks, Rob
Re: Attendee Numbers for ApacheCon EU?
jan Comments inline: On 25/11/2014 14:06, jan i j...@apache.org wrote: On 25 November 2014 at 12:36, Rob Vesse rve...@dotnetrdf.org wrote: Does anyone have an attendance figures for last weeks ApacheCon EU since I ideally need to include it in my conference trip report? The last number I have was just below 300. Which correspond to the expected, but a bit lower than hoped for (helping arrange the conference always put the hopes up). Thanks for this, I'm not interested in Cloudstack numbers since I didn't stay for that (my employer is OpenStack focused anyway) Remark this number do not include the cloudstack conference (the last 2 days). Living in Europe I of course want ACEU to be at least as big as ACNAand we will get there. Yes that would be great Also one of the conference volunteers mentioned in passing that they were counting attendees in individual sessions. If they were is this data going to be collated and shared anywhere? Yes these numbers was collected, but are at the moment in a form which is not really easy readable and right now there are no plans to put them up on a web page. The numbers of the individual sessions also need to be used carefully, and first of all they do not express how popular or big a project is. Just an example, some sessions are traditionally big in US and small in EU or the other way round. Understood, the only number I'm really interested in is the number for my own talk since ideally I need to report that as well. I have a rough count that I did myself at the time but I'd like it to be as accurate as possible. Is the data somewhere visible to committers? Thanks, Rob rgds jan i. Thanks, Rob
Re: Content tracks at ApacheCon Austin
Kay - Generally any interested Apache committer can ask to be added to the reviewers group for ApacheCon events in the Linux Foundation CFP system. You simply need to drop an email here/to Rich offering to help. If you've done reviewing for the previous two LF organised events then in principal you should already be on the authorised reviewers list. Rich - In the CFP system if you want to filter reviews by events there are two ApacheCon North America entries with no easy way to tell which refers to this years event and which is next years. Can we get the LF folks to add the year to those event titles in the CFP system to make the two events actually distinguishable? Rob On 24/11/2014 00:30, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/22/2014 09:16 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: The CFP for ApacheCon Austin closes on February 1st, so we have just over 2 months to get our content solicited for that event. I need your help. At ApacheCon EU this week, I spoke with a number of project PMCs. I requested that they attempt to put together what they feel would be a good track - ie., a list of topics that they feel would need to be covered in order for their project to be properly represented - and then attempt to solicit *those* talks from their user/dev community. This has a few benefits over the standard what do you want to talk about? CFP process. One, you end up with the talks that represent a full coverage of a project, without big holes. And it's a great way to encourage new speakers who are having trouble deciding what they might speak about. I believe I'll be getting tracks from: * Cloudstack * OFBiz * OpenOffice * Mesos * httpd I would ask that you make this request of your project PMC, those of you who have a project (or more) that you are active on. Or find the person who should own this. In the coming days, I'd like to build a list of people that are interested in making ApacheCon Austin happen, and in particular helping get PMCs more involved in the process. If that's you, please speak up. Question: Do you think we need a dedicated mailing list for this, or should we continue to do this on dev@community? (I'm open to either way, but if folks feel strongly one way or the other, we should do that.) I think this list is fine for general contact from PMC representatives (yet to be determined). My question/concern at this point is what has been submitted so far? I don't think anyone but a few can review submissions before the closing date. It would help some PMCs to know what's been submitted up to this point. This is not an undesirable change, but different than what's been done in the past that's for sure. -- - MzK One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Re: Understanding the commit-then-review workflow
A practical example of a technical veto I've seen was when we added some new optimisations that interacted badly with a pre-existing API in some rare corner cases. This actually went into a release and it wasn't until a particularly vocal community member got round to upgrading that we became aware of the issue. As it was central to a their product stack and that product stack is widely used in our field both by ourselves and the wider community this was an appropriate veto. After some heated discussion (because at first we didn't understand why this was a problem - this was an example of when a minimal test case is useless without the wider context) we were able to come up with a technical solution that preserved the new optimisations and resolved the bad interactions. Rob On 09/07/2014 08:12, Mark Struberg strub...@yahoo.de wrote: I think the vetoing -1 from PMCs is mainly used for 'legal' reasons. If e.g. some new committer adds code which he took from an external project and it's license is not appropriate. I've not yet seen -1 for purely technical reasons. This might happen. But usually a consensus is reached after the pros and cons got discussed on the list. LieGrue, strub On Wednesday, 9 July 2014, 3:36, Justin Mclean jus...@classsoftware.com wrote: Hi, Ugh. That looks garbled to me. What exactly is a code modification vote? Any committer should be allowed to -1 a commit (with reasons) Any committer can vote -1 it's just not normally binding (depending on project guidelines), I certainly can't see it being ignored when it does happen, even a -1 by a user is probably trying to tell you something is up :-) There was a long discussion about this when we were drafting up the Apache Flex guidelines as the default rules are not always clear. The was an attempt to get this wording fixed up but not much come of it. Thanks, Justin
Re: Proposing for Apache Member?
Pierre Not unless one/more of those contributors is themselves a Member/Officer of the ASF - see Sectopn 4.1 of the Bylaws (http://apache.org/foundation/bylaws.html#4.1) which states the following: To be eligible for membership, a person or entity must be nominated by a current member of the corporation and must complete a written membership application in such form as shall be adopted by the Board of Directors from time to time Therefore contributors of a project can't directly, I guess they could talk to ASF members they know and suggest that person with the aim of getting a nomination but not being a member myself I'm not sure if that would be acceptable behaviour. Ultimately ASF is a meritocracy and my personal impression based on people who I know of who've become members in the past couple of years is that to become a member you need to be active across the foundation (not just within a small part of it) for a prolonged period. One thing worth asking is why the community you are involved in feels the need to have someone be elected as a Member? Rob On 08/07/2014 09:43, Pierre Smits pierre.sm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi All, Is it possible that contributors of a project can propose a community member to be elected as an Apache Member? Regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM http://www.orrtiz.com* Services Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: ApacheCon EU: What I need help with
I took a first pass at categorising the talks that would fall under the Linked Data category Andy Sergio who are promoting that track will need to review and make sure I haven't missed/miscategorized anything Rob On 01/07/2014 00:30, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/30/2014 09:11 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: I need to call on all you find people who have offered help with ApacheCon. I didn't get anything done on it this weekend, and I don't want to be holding anybody up. These are the things that I can use help with. * Reviewing talks - if you're willing, please sign on to the CFP system - http://events.linuxfoundation.org/cfp/cfp-list?field_presentation_event_t arget_id%5B%5D=2260 - and start rating talks. If you don't have authorization to get to that interface, please tell me and C. Craig Ross c...@linuxfoundation.org to get that fixed. * Sorting into tracks/categories. All of the talks are in a Google Doc at https://docs.google.com/a/rcbowen.com/spreadsheets/d/1NSFxoGYkzpkorJkRN7C NnZpsaO59qro3L5YjeTBVSZE/edit#gid=0 I need help dividing them up into tracks/topics/projects so that when we have the ratings, it'll be easy to identify which ones to select and how to divide them up. Please a) create a tab for what you think a topic should be, b) COPY (not move) the record from ALL TALKS to that tab, and c) highlight the entry on the ALL TALKS tab in a different color to indicate that it has been categorized. I did this to some categories and color coded the tabs as well. Please feel free to change colors if you find them TOO BRIGHT! :) * If you are familiar with Budapest, help us with the content for http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/BudapestTips * If your project is planning to participate in the hackathon, put some ideas at http://wiki.apache.org/apachecon/HackathonEU14 to get attendees excited about our on-site activities. * If your company is interested in sponsoring the event, but doesn't know how, please email me and Angela Brown ang...@linuxfoundation.org Thanks so much for any way that you can help, be it minutes our hours. --Rich -- - MzK To be trusted is a greater compliment than being loved. -- George MacDonald
Re: How can we support a faster release cadence?
Realistically I have rarely been involved in a project where the vote comes out of the blue. Projects have typically already discussed whether to move ahead with a release on the dev list in advance of the vote so I've always known the vote was coming. While any project member can propose a release candidate and call a vote I'd expect a well managed project to do some level of advance coordination on this. However regardless of whether the vote is scheduled/known in advance or not the fact still remains that the window is very short. It makes the assumption that the schedules of the people voting are regular which is almost certainly untrue, the amount of time people can give to a project varies over time due to everyone's unique personal circumstances. There are also various ways I could imagine completely missing a 12hr voting window regardless of timezone and usual availability in the scheduled window e.g. being on a long haul flight with no internet access (or costly internet access). It also assumes that all a reviewer does is the basics of checking signatures, LICENSE, NOTICE and builds. What about people who already carry out more substantial reviewing? e.g. running the release candidates against their companies internal products. This is a process that may take substantial time and potentially involve coordinating with various parts of a reviewers work organisation that the reviewer may have no control over how long it takes for this to happen. Now maybe if an organisation is already doing internal builds against SNAPSHOTs and keeping close tabs on development this issue goes away but perhaps I work in an organisation that does not have sufficient infrastructure to support doing this on a regular basis, management refuses to use development builds etc. Certainly I agree that there are things that can be done to make parts of the review process much easier on reviewers e.g. tools for automatically checking signatures, comparing source distributions with the VCS tags etc. but they don't necessarily solve all the issues. The 12hr window idea also assumes that there will be no contention over the release candidate and that the person who is acting at the release manager is able to be awake accessible for the entire 12hr window to take account of any issues raised and cancel/release as appropriate at the end of the window. The basic issue here is ultimately one of volunteer time, even if I knew that the vote was always coming at the same time each week/month/arbitrary interval there is no way that I could always guarantee I had the time to review it given only a 12hr window. So to repeat Upayavira's point I end up being excluded from the votes, maybe that is not the end of the world if the next vote is only a week away but it ultimately removes the flexibility and inclusiveness that the current 72hr window gives me. Rob On 10/02/2014 08:30, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, 10 February 2014, Upayavira u...@odoko.co.uk wrote: On Sun, Feb 9, 2014, at 06:40 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Stephen Connolly stephen.alan.conno...@gmail.com javascript:; wrote: 72h for a vote is not a hard and fast rule (you just need a good reason for why you are going shorter and from what I have seen, the board would probably be ok as long as protections are put in place to safeguard the community) By now, I think that we've demonstrated in this thread that scheduled votes with a small window (12-24 hours) are practical. Have we? I don't believe anyone has expressed the real justification for a 72hr window, which is to enable the vote to be *inclusive*. That is, inclusive of people who don't live in the same timezone, and who perhaps don't work on the codebase full time. Yes, a 12hr window might make it possible for everyone to have at least 4 waking hours in that window, but what if that is your 4hrs of taking your kids to school, or cooking dinner for the family. Or if they contribute in their spare time, and that 4hrs is whilst they are at work. If the project chooses that particular 12hr window as a fixed thing, it effectively excludes you from the vote. But this is a *scheduled* vote... If you know that it is something you *want* to have a chance to vote on, you have sufficient time to ensure the vote is extended in order for you tiger your say. IMHO 72h is needed *when you don't know that there will be a vote*... This would be a different case... Though I ack that I had only thought this and not articulated it prior I am in no way attempting to argue that 72hrs votes is the only way to achieve this particular aim, but I do not consider this issue as addressed in any way in this thread yet. So: If we are going to shorten release vote durations, how do we ensure inclusivity, both of current, and potential future contributors, irrespective of timezone, work pattern, etc? Upayavira --
Re: A couple of questions on ApacheCon, Denver reviews...
Out of interest do the speakers see the specific comments individual reviewers post or are these aggregated/anonymised in some way? Rob On 30/01/2014 04:40, Rich Bowen rbo...@rcbowen.com wrote: The system gives us accept/reject rankings. If you want to communicate more than that, email me. Or call me. I want to have talk selections reflect the opinion of the subject experts. -- Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com On Jan 29, 2014 5:29 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@apache.org wrote: Since this is my first time helping with the reviews, I'm also wondering what's the objective for us reviewers? Are we expected to stack-rank the proposal in our given areas or weight them somehow? Thanks, Roman. On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: As I am quite new to this process, a few questions -- The closing date for submissions is Feb 1, and it seems notifications will be sent out by Feb 14. So, what is the due date for completion of reviews? There are a few submissions -- aside from some standard ASF presentations -- that are somewhat generic and don't directly apply to a specific Apache project. So -- who will be reviewing these? Or should anybody that volunteered for reviewing, review them? Can more than one reviewer rate a submission and perhaps change the decision of a previous reviewer? Just curious about this. But it might be advantageous in some situations to get input from multiple reviewers. ok, that's it for now... -- -- -- - Kay Schenk, Apache OpenOffice Cats do not have to be shown how to have a good time, for they are unfailing ingenious in that respect. -- James Mason
