Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Joseph Schaefer]

Lgtm!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 6:27 PM, Niall Pemberton  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 06/06/2016 05:21 PM, Niall Pemberton wrote:
>> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>> >
>> >> The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
>> >> thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
>> >> enforceable. I don't think this is either.
>> >>
>> >> What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
>> >> enforce with policy.
>> >>
>> >
>> > The Code of Conduct is mostly not "measurable and enforceable" and just
>> > contains good advice - of the seven sections the only we can enforce is the
>> > "Be careful in the words that we choose" section. I dont have a problem
>> > with that because I see it as a tool to encourage people, rather than just
>> > something to be enforced.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Yes, I suppose you're right.
>> 
>> Perhaps such an injunction could indeed be added to that section. Do you
>> have a recommended patch?
> 
> I came up with adding the following in the "Be concise" section (attached as 
> a patch):
> 
> "Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone. Pause 
> between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the 
> debate."
> 
> Niall
> 
>  
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
>> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
> 

Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Niall Pemberton]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 1:49 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
>
> On 06/06/2016 05:21 PM, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> >
> >> The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
> >> thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
> >> enforceable. I don't think this is either.
> >>
> >> What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we
> can
> >> enforce with policy.
> >>
> >
> > The Code of Conduct is mostly not "measurable and enforceable" and just
> > contains good advice - of the seven sections the only we can enforce is
> the
> > "Be careful in the words that we choose" section. I dont have a problem
> > with that because I see it as a tool to encourage people, rather than
> just
> > something to be enforced.
>
>
>
> Yes, I suppose you're right.
>
> Perhaps such an injunction could indeed be added to that section. Do you
> have a recommended patch?
>

I came up with adding the following in the "Be concise" section (attached
as a patch):

"Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone. Pause
between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the
debate."

Niall



>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
>
>

Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Rich Bowen]

On 06/06/2016 05:21 PM, Niall Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
> 
>> The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
>> thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
>> enforceable. I don't think this is either.
>>
>> What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
>> enforce with policy.
>>
> 
> The Code of Conduct is mostly not "measurable and enforceable" and just
> contains good advice - of the seven sections the only we can enforce is the
> "Be careful in the words that we choose" section. I dont have a problem
> with that because I see it as a tool to encourage people, rather than just
> something to be enforced.



Yes, I suppose you're right.

Perhaps such an injunction could indeed be added to that section. Do you
have a recommended patch?


-- 
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon



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Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Niall Pemberton]

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Rich Bowen  wrote:

> The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
> thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
> enforceable. I don't think this is either.
>
> What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
> enforce with policy.
>

The Code of Conduct is mostly not "measurable and enforceable" and just
contains good advice - of the seven sections the only we can enforce is the
"Be careful in the words that we choose" section. I dont have a problem
with that because I see it as a tool to encourage people, rather than just
something to be enforced.

Niall




> On Jun 5, 2016 8:00 PM, "Niall Pemberton" 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I really like the code of conduct, but I think it would be good to
> include
> > something about sending too many emails. Sometimes you get people who
> > dominate a thread, responding to almost everyone and they drain the
> energy
> > of others to take part.
> >
> > My suggestion is to add a sentence to the "Be concise" section, perhaps
> > something like the following:
> >
> > "Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone.
> Pause
> > between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the
> > debate."
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Niall
> >
>

Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Mark Thomas]

On 06/06/2016 01:16, Rich Bowen wrote:
> The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
> thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
> enforceable. I don't think this is either.
> 
> What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
> enforce with policy.

While the CoC might not be the best place for this good advice, there
are other places where it might work better:
http://community.apache.org/contributors/etiquette
http://www.apache.org/dev/contrib-email-tips

Mark

> On Jun 5, 2016 8:00 PM, "Niall Pemberton"  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> I really like the code of conduct, but I think it would be good to include
>> something about sending too many emails. Sometimes you get people who
>> dominate a thread, responding to almost everyone and they drain the energy
>> of others to take part.
>>
>> My suggestion is to add a sentence to the "Be concise" section, perhaps
>> something like the following:
>>
>> "Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone. Pause
>> between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the
>> debate."
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Niall
>>
> 

RE: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Ross Gardler]

+1



This is not really a CoC issue, more of a best practice one.



Sent from my Windows 10 phone



From: Rich Bowen<mailto:rbo...@rcbowen.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 5, 2016 5:17 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org<mailto:dev@community.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding



The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
enforceable. I don't think this is either.

What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
enforce with policy.
On Jun 5, 2016 8:00 PM, "Niall Pemberton" <niall.pember...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I really like the code of conduct, but I think it would be good to include
> something about sending too many emails. Sometimes you get people who
> dominate a thread, responding to almost everyone and they drain the energy
> of others to take part.
>
> My suggestion is to add a sentence to the "Be concise" section, perhaps
> something like the following:
>
> "Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone. Pause
> between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the
> debate."
>
> WDYT?
>
> Niall
>

Re: Code of Conduct - Over Responding

[Rich Bowen]

The challenge with a CoC is knowing when to quit before becoming the
thought police. Also, it should be things that are measurable and
enforceable. I don't think this is either.

What you are suggesting is really good advice, but isn't something we can
enforce with policy.
On Jun 5, 2016 8:00 PM, "Niall Pemberton"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I really like the code of conduct, but I think it would be good to include
> something about sending too many emails. Sometimes you get people who
> dominate a thread, responding to almost everyone and they drain the energy
> of others to take part.
>
> My suggestion is to add a sentence to the "Be concise" section, perhaps
> something like the following:
>
> "Try not to dominate a thread, you don't have to respond to everyone. Pause
> between sending emails to give others an opportunity to contribute to the
> debate."
>
> WDYT?
>
> Niall
>