[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Romain Manni-Bucau (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715964#comment-17715964
 ] 

Romain Manni-Bucau commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:


[~vanta] EE always had been selected for its stability until they start 
breaking and the adoption decrease so yes they exist and try to migrate without 
having to do it every year cause it costs money.

To answer your timeline question: it is not about the timeline since ASF does 
not have any strong timeline, it is likely more about the investment you can do.

For example join the discussion about the pruning on the list and when there is 
an agreement, if you cover all mainstream servers (I guess payara, tomee, 
wildfly) for the IT then the release is 3 days (vote process) but has no real 
blocker nor challenge.

If you consider the project as a consommable and don't care about the OSS side 
I'm tempted to say you should migrate to something more commercial like quarkus 
(money helps to maintain software in real life ;)).

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Krzysztof Wolny (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715959#comment-17715959
 ] 

Krzysztof Wolny commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
-

> Not for end users when they need to change their code every year/month (maybe 
> you are an exception), the EE and Microprofile mess prove it being very true 
> for a lot of our user base.

If the EE world is changing, its users have to adopt or leave if it's too fast 
for them. It's not DS fault that these changes happen, no one will blame you. 
People will blame if these changes are not adopted in DS. Why do we (waiting 
users) have to wait for these slower ones maybe they don't even exist...?

Anyway, do we have a timeline for this change or a timeline for a timeline for 
this change? All we need is clarity: should we wait or migrate to other 
solutions.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Romain Manni-Bucau (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715794#comment-17715794
 ] 

Romain Manni-Bucau commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:


> Releases are cheap! There is no rule saying that a project can't make several 
> major releases in a (short) period.

Not for end users when they need to change their code every year/month (maybe 
you are an exception), the EE and Microprofile mess prove it being very true 
for a lot of our user base.

> And then take your time to make any improvements on top for the next major 
> release.

Deleting will not happen *on top*, this is the main issue and why there is a 
discussion.

> IMO it would be better to make a release that just replaces "javax" with 
> "jakarta" of the current/latest javax version of a lib. There is no need of a 
> major version here. One could use even a Maven classifier.

I was for the classifier option to have an early access flavor but the breaking 
change in EE API limit this solution now and will not enable to run in any 
jakarta server so we have to do the big jump sadly and therefore the IT 
question which require some investment.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Jeremy Landis (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715791#comment-17715791
 ] 

Jeremy Landis commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
---

Classifier was there but deltaspike broke it.  1.9.7 release would have 
resolved that but now it's much more...

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> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715790#comment-17715790
 ] 

Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
---

By the way, I also got rid of DeltaSpike, so I am no more interested in the 
Jakarta change. I will unsubscribe myself from this ticket.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715784#comment-17715784
 ] 

Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
---

"this is a breaking version so you have to ask yourself as a project maintainer 
what you want to break more to give some stability to users"

Releases are cheap! There is no rule saying that a project can't make several 
major releases in a (short) period.

IMO it would be better to make a release that just replaces "javax" with 
"jakarta" of the current/latest javax version of a lib. There is no need of a 
major version here. One could use even a Maven classifier.

And then take your time to make any improvements on top for the next major 
release.

 

What we have now is 2 years of waiting... And probably more ahead ...

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Romain Manni-Bucau (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715768#comment-17715768
 ] 

Romain Manni-Bucau commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:


[~mgrigorov] this can look accurate but in pactise you hide the most important 
points:
 * this is a breaking version so you have to ask yourself as a project 
maintainer what you want to break more to give some stability to users (if you 
don't it means you will do a pure conversion release then break with next 
major, likely worse),
 * javax -> jakarta is not only about renaming, EE broke itself just after the 
renaming (CDI API for ex) so this is not only a renaming thing to migrate, this 
is also why the bytecode manipulation often works but also fails regularly,
 * even following this rule you still hit the fact containers are not up to 
date or no more compatible so you still have IT work

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715729#comment-17715729
 ] 

Martin Tzvetanov Grigorov commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
---

"there are discussions on what should be kept for v2 (jakarta) or not on the 
list."

This is the main problem for all Javax/Jakarta projects - they all try to 
add/remove something in addition to the simple renaming of the 
packages/imports. And this makes this simple task so problematic.

I see the same problem in commons-fileupload, in RestEasy, in cdi-unit and few 
more projects.

Most of us (the users) just want the same old javax-based library but updated 
to jakarta. Some projects update the sources, others use bytecode manipulation 
to accomplish the task. Both are fine for us (the users)!

What should be avoided is to add/remove features in the same release.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Romain Manni-Bucau (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715725#comment-17715725
 ] 

Romain Manni-Bucau commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:


The main issue is migrating away from it means doing yourself part of it since 
there is no real alternative in CDI land (microprofile is insanely unstable and 
doesnt cover 60% of DS) so tempted to say it depends what you use. For your 
information there are discussions on what should be kept for v2 (jakarta) or 
not on the list. As usual it is easy to say to the OSS "do my job" but the idea 
is more "join and help" so you are both welcome to join the list and do PR to 
make it move faster.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Thomas Andraschko (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715722#comment-17715722
 ] 

Thomas Andraschko commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
---

100% of the still active commiters maintains multiple Java/JakartaEE projects 
on apache here, DeltaSpike is just that with the lowest prio for us.
We first try to get all other libs running again, so we have "our" application 
server (TomEE) before we can even use DeltaSpike again. Its not an easy task to 
migrate like 15 libs from javax to jakarta.

We need at least some tests running on real containers, everyone can help here 
migrating the tests.





> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Krzysztof Wolny (Jira) 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715695#comment-17715695
 ] 

Krzysztof Wolny commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
-

+1 for [~romanmueller] , it's a bit of shame that after 2 years it's still not 
migrated to Jakarta. Maybe this project is simply dying and we should migrate 
out of it.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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[jira] [Commented] (DELTASPIKE-1434) Namespace change javax to jakarta

2023-04-24 Thread Jira 


[ 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17715601#comment-17715601
 ] 

Roman Müller commented on DELTASPIKE-1434:
--

Consider migrating away from Deltaspike. It is not that much value it adds to 
your project anyway tbh. We did it for our project and it only took 2 weeks. 
Way faster than making Deltaspike compatible with Jakarta.

> Namespace change javax to jakarta
> -
>
> Key: DELTASPIKE-1434
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DELTASPIKE-1434
> Project: DeltaSpike
>  Issue Type: Improvement
>  Security Level: public(Regular issues) 
>  Components: Core
>Affects Versions: 1.9.5
>Reporter: John Smith
>Assignee: Mark Struberg
>Priority: Major
>  Time Spent: 2h 50m
>  Remaining Estimate: 0h
>
> Is there a plan to make the namespace change from javax to jakartaee. Seems 
> to be required to use deltaspike in the future. 
> https://jakarta.ee/compatibility/



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