Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

OK, given the info from Dan about CXF and JAXB, I withdraw my suggestion 
to only use the JAXB/JAXWS shipped in Java SE 6, which also means there 
is no good reason to only support Java SE 6 for runtime


So, to summarize:
1) we continue on the path of including a JAXB/JAXWS in the assemblies
2) we will only JEE5 certify on Sun Java SE 6
3) we will continue building with Java SE 5 and not block users from 
using it as their runtime JVM, but we'll recommend that everyone use 
Java SE 6 used for certification



-Donald


Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop 
support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK, 
instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more 
Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Daniel Kulp]

On Monday 17 November 2008 8:22:21 pm Kevan Miller wrote:
> On Nov 17, 2008, at 4:35 PM, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> > On Monday 17 November 2008 4:19:45 pm Donald Woods wrote:
> >> Sorry, I was away on vacation last week.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of technical reason why we can't move to Java SE 6
> >> and
> >> use the JAXB/JAX-WS implementation provided in the JDK?
> >
> > Yes.   There are parts of CXF that won't work without the non-
> > mungled versions
> > JAXB.   (the versions in the JDK are package mungled.)   I've
> > STARTED going
> > down the route of using ASM and other trickery to get it working on
> > cxf's
> > trunk, but that's not on the 2.1.x branch.
>
> Thanks for the info, Dan. For collective awareness, could I ask you to
> be a bit more specific about the "packaged mungled" versions of JAXB?
>
> --kevan

When Sun puts things into the JDK, they tend to mangle the package name from 
their standalone versions to something else.   In the case of JAXB, they 
changed the com.sun.xml.bind package to com.sun.xml.internal.bind.   That's 
fine if you JUST need to use the public API's in javax.xml.bind, but to do a 
bunch of more advanced things, you need to interact directly with stuff in 
the the com.sun packages.

In particular, there are several area's that we need to do so:

1) Namespace mapping -  to customize the namespace mapping, you have to 
subclass a class in the com.sun.xml.bind package.   Thus, if you subclass the 
version for "external" jaxb, that class doesn't work for the "internal" jaxb  
(class cast exception) since the parent is diffent.  (and vice versa)

2) Do to some advanced Map/interface mapping WITHOUT generating wrapper types 
first, you need to use the JAXB bridge things that are in com.sun.   However, 
this isn't "normal" for CXF anymore.   If you have ASM on the classpath, we 
generate wrapper classes in memory.  That solve this without the bridges.   
However, if you don't have asm, you still need the bridges.

3) The "default" namespace mapping, while just a string property name, also 
changed.   What's worse, if you pass the other property in a context creation 
time, it throws an exception.   Thus, you kind of have to try one, catch any 
exception, try the other.   

4) For code generation time (wsdl->java) even more problems come up.   First, 
NONE of XJC is in javax.xml.   It's all in com.sun.xml.bind packages.   So 
all of that changes.   Plus, XJC plugins have the same "superclass has 
changed" problem.  XJC plugins written for external JAXB won't work 
with "internal" jaxb.   In fact, if you have the external plugins even on the 
classpath, the internal xjc won't even run at all.

On trunk, I've tackled 1 - 3.   4 is a ton of work that I haven't had time to 
complete.   The XJC plugin stuff is also something I have absolutely no idea 
how to handle.  :-(


-- 
Daniel Kulp
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://dankulp.com/blog

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Kevan Miller]

On Nov 17, 2008, at 4:35 PM, Daniel Kulp wrote:


On Monday 17 November 2008 4:19:45 pm Donald Woods wrote:

Sorry, I was away on vacation last week.

Does anyone know of technical reason why we can't move to Java SE 6  
and

use the JAXB/JAX-WS implementation provided in the JDK?


Yes.   There are parts of CXF that won't work without the non- 
mungled versions
JAXB.   (the versions in the JDK are package mungled.)   I've  
STARTED going
down the route of using ASM and other trickery to get it working on  
cxf's

trunk, but that's not on the 2.1.x branch.


Thanks for the info, Dan. For collective awareness, could I ask you to  
be a bit more specific about the "packaged mungled" versions of JAXB?


--kevan

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[David Jencks]

I don't care about running the tck on se 5 but I would prefer to be  
able to continue developing on it I haven't heard good things  
about apple se 6 support.


thanks
david jencks

On Nov 17, 2008, at 1:04 PM, Jason Warner wrote:

Have we come to a consensus on this yet?  Perhaps we should put it  
to a vote?  The discussion has died down, but there doesn't seem to  
be a clear "winner."


On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:
I'm not proposing that we put any checks or hard stops in the server  
to prevent starting on Java SE 5, but I would like to remove JAXB/ 
JAXWS 2.1 as it comes in Java SE 6 and use the wsgen in the JDKs  
instead of shipping some CXF code for Axis2 users.


Free Java SE 5 support/updates end next year, so I don't see why  
you'd want to continue supporting it in a 2.2 release that is  
targeted as a main release stream for 2009.



-Donald



Kevan Miller wrote:

On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and  
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced  
"certification" on a particular Java SE level, in the past. We've  
documented minimum SE platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to do on 1.4).


I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check  
that would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java SE 5  
issue, I'd expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem,  
regardless of our "support statement"


I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on Java  
Se 6 (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5 runs...).


However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using Java  
SE 5, if that's what they want...




Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java

Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on  
both...



- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the  
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes  
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)


I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF -- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 
 Would that resolve your issues with Java SE 5?


--kevan




--
~Jason Warner

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Daniel Kulp]

On Monday 17 November 2008 4:19:45 pm Donald Woods wrote:
> Sorry, I was away on vacation last week.
>
> Does anyone know of technical reason why we can't move to Java SE 6 and
> use the JAXB/JAX-WS implementation provided in the JDK?

Yes.   There are parts of CXF that won't work without the non-mungled versions 
JAXB.   (the versions in the JDK are package mungled.)   I've STARTED going 
down the route of using ASM and other trickery to get it working on cxf's 
trunk, but that's not on the 2.1.x branch.

Dan


>
>
> -Donald
>
> Jason Warner wrote:
> > Have we come to a consensus on this yet?  Perhaps we should put it to a
> > vote?  The discussion has died down, but there doesn't seem to be a
> > clear "winner."
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > I'm not proposing that we put any checks or hard stops in the server
> > to prevent starting on Java SE 5, but I would like to remove
> > JAXB/JAXWS 2.1 as it comes in Java SE 6 and use the wsgen in the
> > JDKs instead of shipping some CXF code for Axis2 users.
> >
> > Free Java SE 5 support/updates end next year, so I don't see why
> > you'd want to continue supporting it in a 2.2 release that is
> > targeted as a main release stream for 2009.
> >
> >
> > -Donald
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevan Miller wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:
> >
> > The time has come to make the hard decision -
> >
> > Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0
> > JDK and drop support for running on Java SE 5?
> >
> >
> > Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced
> > "certification" on a particular Java SE level, in the past.
> > We've documented minimum SE platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to
> > do on 1.4).
> >
> > I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check
> > that would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java
> > SE 5 issue, I'd expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem,
> > regardless of our "support statement"
> >
> > I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on
> > Java Se 6 (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5
> > runs...).
> >
> > However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using
> > Java SE 5, if that's what they want...
> >
> >
> >
> > Pros:
> > - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
> >
> >
> > Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on
> > both...
> >
> >
> > - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools
> > in the JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies
> > (and removes some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)
> >
> >
> > I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF --
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 Would that
> > resolve your issues with Java SE 5?
> >
> > --kevan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~Jason Warner



-- 
Daniel Kulp
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://dankulp.com/blog

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Sorry, I was away on vacation last week.

Does anyone know of technical reason why we can't move to Java SE 6 and 
use the JAXB/JAX-WS implementation provided in the JDK?



-Donald


Jason Warner wrote:
Have we come to a consensus on this yet?  Perhaps we should put it to a 
vote?  The discussion has died down, but there doesn't seem to be a 
clear "winner."


On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


I'm not proposing that we put any checks or hard stops in the server
to prevent starting on Java SE 5, but I would like to remove
JAXB/JAXWS 2.1 as it comes in Java SE 6 and use the wsgen in the
JDKs instead of shipping some CXF code for Axis2 users.

Free Java SE 5 support/updates end next year, so I don't see why
you'd want to continue supporting it in a 2.2 release that is
targeted as a main release stream for 2009.


-Donald



Kevan Miller wrote:


On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0
JDK and drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced
"certification" on a particular Java SE level, in the past.
We've documented minimum SE platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to
do on 1.4).

I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check
that would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java
SE 5 issue, I'd expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem,
regardless of our "support statement"

I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on
Java Se 6 (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5 runs...).

However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using
Java SE 5, if that's what they want...



Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java


Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on
both...


- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools
in the JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies
(and removes some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)


I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF --
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 Would that
resolve your issues with Java SE 5?

--kevan




--
~Jason Warner

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Jason Warner]

Have we come to a consensus on this yet?  Perhaps we should put it to a
vote?  The discussion has died down, but there doesn't seem to be a clear
"winner."

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm not proposing that we put any checks or hard stops in the server to
> prevent starting on Java SE 5, but I would like to remove JAXB/JAXWS 2.1 as
> it comes in Java SE 6 and use the wsgen in the JDKs instead of shipping some
> CXF code for Axis2 users.
>
> Free Java SE 5 support/updates end next year, so I don't see why you'd want
> to continue supporting it in a 2.2 release that is targeted as a main
> release stream for 2009.
>
>
> -Donald
>
>
>
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:
>>
>>  The time has come to make the hard decision -
>>>
>>> Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop
>>> support for running on Java SE 5?
>>>
>>
>> Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced "certification"
>> on a particular Java SE level, in the past. We've documented minimum SE
>> platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to do on 1.4).
>>
>> I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check that
>> would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java SE 5 issue, I'd
>> expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem, regardless of our "support
>> statement"
>>
>> I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on Java Se 6
>> (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5 runs...).
>>
>> However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using Java SE 5,
>> if that's what they want...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Pros:
>>> - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
>>>
>>
>> Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on both...
>>
>>
>>> - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK,
>>> instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more Sun
>>> RI from our assemblies)  :-)
>>>
>>
>> I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF --
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 Would that resolve
>> your issues with Java SE 5?
>>
>> --kevan
>>
>>


-- 
~Jason Warner

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

I'm not proposing that we put any checks or hard stops in the server to 
prevent starting on Java SE 5, but I would like to remove JAXB/JAXWS 2.1 
as it comes in Java SE 6 and use the wsgen in the JDKs instead of 
shipping some CXF code for Axis2 users.


Free Java SE 5 support/updates end next year, so I don't see why you'd 
want to continue supporting it in a 2.2 release that is targeted as a 
main release stream for 2009.



-Donald


Kevan Miller wrote:


On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:


The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and 
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced 
"certification" on a particular Java SE level, in the past. We've 
documented minimum SE platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to do on 1.4).


I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check that 
would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java SE 5 issue, 
I'd expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem, regardless of our 
"support statement"


I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on Java Se 
6 (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5 runs...).


However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using Java SE 
5, if that's what they want...





Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java


Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on both...



- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the 
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes 
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)


I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF -- 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 Would that resolve 
your issues with Java SE 5?


--kevan

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Jason Dillon]

Maybe... perhaps the latest update fixes things, but last I tried it  
sucked.  Will try again.


--jason


On Nov 8, 2008, at 2:58 AM, Donald Woods wrote:


Think you're being over critical of Java SE 6 on MacOS.
I just took today's 2.1.4-SNAPSHOT build and it took the same 13  
secs. to start under 1.6.0_07 and 1.5.0_16 on my MacBook running OSX  
10.5.5.



-Donald

Jason Dillon wrote:

On Nov 7, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.



I'm not kean on the idea.  Java SE 6 has not been out for that  
long, relatively speaking and a lot of production environments  
will still be on Java SE 5.
Personally I'm in the same boat...  One major reason for me is that  
Java SE 6 isn't really all that well supported on  Mac OS X yet,  
while the platform does have an implementation, its slow and  
buggy... which does cause problems for many Geronimo developers.
But also, IMO there isn't anything ubersignificant in SE 6 that G  
needs to function.  The javax.script stuff would be nice, though we  
don't really need that at the moment.  The java.io.Console stuff  
would be good too... but again, not critical for the functionality  
or operation.
While I wish Mac OS X (and the rest of the world) would hurry up  
and get things kick ass optimal on SE 6 right the *uck now, the  
reality is that it isn't and unless there is a significant reason  
to make SE 6 the baseline java version I will strongly push back.

--jason

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Kevan Miller]

On Nov 7, 2008, at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods wrote:


The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and  
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Um. What do you mean "drop support"? We've only announced  
"certification" on a particular Java SE level, in the past. We've  
documented minimum SE platform (e.g. Java EE 5 is hard to do on 1.4).


I would be against some sort of explicit Java SE 5 runtime check that  
would fail server startup. If a user shows up with a Java SE 5 issue,  
I'd expect that we'd be trying to fix their problem, regardless of our  
"support statement"


I have no issue with performing certification testing, only, on Java  
Se 6 (but would also be happy to see some Java SE 5 runs...).


However, I don't see any reason to discourage users from using Java SE  
5, if that's what they want...





Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java


Fine, but w/ testing hardware, may not be a big issue to test on both...



- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the  
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes  
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)


I thought we were going to be picking up tools from CXF -- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/GERONIMO-4351 
 Would that resolve your issues with Java SE 5?


--kevan

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Another reason to move to Java SE 6 for Geronimo 2.2, is the below EOSL 
statement from Sun on their website -

   http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/index_jdk5.jsp

"J2SE 5.0 is in its Java Technology End of Life (EOL) transition period. 
The EOL transition period began April 8th, 2008 and will complete 
October 30th, 2009, when J2SE 5.0 will have reached its End of Service 
Life (EOSL)."



If I was deploying new instances or updating existing app servers, I'd 
require using Java SE 6 based on the above



-Donald


Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop 
support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK, 
instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more 
Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Think you're being over critical of Java SE 6 on MacOS.
I just took today's 2.1.4-SNAPSHOT build and it took the same 13 secs. 
to start under 1.6.0_07 and 1.5.0_16 on my MacBook running OSX 10.5.5.



-Donald

Jason Dillon wrote:

On Nov 7, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.



I'm not kean on the idea.  Java SE 6 has not been out for that long, 
relatively speaking and a lot of production environments will still be 
on Java SE 5.


Personally I'm in the same boat...  One major reason for me is that Java 
SE 6 isn't really all that well supported on  Mac OS X yet, while the 
platform does have an implementation, its slow and buggy... which does 
cause problems for many Geronimo developers.


But also, IMO there isn't anything ubersignificant in SE 6 that G needs 
to function.  The javax.script stuff would be nice, though we don't 
really need that at the moment.  The java.io.Console stuff would be good 
too... but again, not critical for the functionality or operation.


While I wish Mac OS X (and the rest of the world) would hurry up and get 
things kick ass optimal on SE 6 right the *uck now, the reality is that 
it isn't and unless there is a significant reason to make SE 6 the 
baseline java version I will strongly push back.


--jason

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Expecting that we will have a 2.1.4 release sometime in 1Q09 and 
probably a 2.1.5 sometime in 2H09 before we put the 2.1 branch to bed.



-Donald


Vamsavardhana Reddy wrote:



On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Given we only have about 5 weeks between now and when should cut a
2.2 branch, I'm not sure I'd waste time on this.  As Jack pointed
out in another reply, Java SE 6 has been out almost 2 years, so its
time to move on  If users want to stay on Java SE 5, we'll be
glad to apply fixes to the 2.1 branch.

In this case we may have to have more releases from 2.1 branch.  Or are 
we expecting the users to build from the branch?
 





-Donald



Joe Bohn wrote:

I'm certainly in favor of only performing certification on SE 6
runtime for 2.2.

I wonder if it would be possible for us to include the JAXB and
JAXWS support in a plugin for users that might need to continue
on SE 5.  If this isn't too difficult (or too much of a
maintenance nightmare) then we might consider it.  Is that even
possible?

Joe


Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0
JDK and drop support for running on Java SE 5?

Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools
in the JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies
(and removes some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)
- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
 - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
 - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
 - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from
build repos
 - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from
net repos
 - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install
Sun 1.6.0
 - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for
any users who want to stay on Java SE 5

I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Jason Dillon]

On Nov 7, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.



I'm not kean on the idea.  Java SE 6 has not been out for that long,  
relatively speaking and a lot of production environments will still  
be on Java SE 5.


Personally I'm in the same boat...  One major reason for me is that  
Java SE 6 isn't really all that well supported on  Mac OS X yet, while  
the platform does have an implementation, its slow and buggy... which  
does cause problems for many Geronimo developers.


But also, IMO there isn't anything ubersignificant in SE 6 that G  
needs to function.  The javax.script stuff would be nice, though we  
don't really need that at the moment.  The java.io.Console stuff would  
be good too... but again, not critical for the functionality or  
operation.


While I wish Mac OS X (and the rest of the world) would hurry up and  
get things kick ass optimal on SE 6 right the *uck now, the reality is  
that it isn't and unless there is a significant reason to make SE 6  
the baseline java version I will strongly push back.


--jason

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Alan D. Cabrera]

On Nov 6, 2008, at 9:04 PM, Donald Woods wrote:


The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and  
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the  
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes  
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any  
users who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.



I'm not kean on the idea.  Java SE 6 has not been out for that long,  
relatively speaking and a lot of production environments will still be  
on Java SE 5.



Regards,
Alan

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Vamsavardhana Reddy]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 9:12 PM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Given we only have about 5 weeks between now and when should cut a 2.2
> branch, I'm not sure I'd waste time on this.  As Jack pointed out in another
> reply, Java SE 6 has been out almost 2 years, so its time to move on  If
> users want to stay on Java SE 5, we'll be glad to apply fixes to the 2.1
> branch.

In this case we may have to have more releases from 2.1 branch.  Or are we
expecting the users to build from the branch?


>
>
>
> -Donald
>
>
>
> Joe Bohn wrote:
>
>> I'm certainly in favor of only performing certification on SE 6 runtime
>> for 2.2.
>>
>> I wonder if it would be possible for us to include the JAXB and JAXWS
>> support in a plugin for users that might need to continue on SE 5.  If this
>> isn't too difficult (or too much of a maintenance nightmare) then we might
>> consider it.  Is that even possible?
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> Donald Woods wrote:
>>
>>> The time has come to make the hard decision -
>>>
>>> Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop
>>> support for running on Java SE 5?
>>>
>>> Pros:
>>> - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
>>> - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK,
>>> instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more Sun
>>> RI from our assemblies)  :-)
>>> - Keeps us current on the latest Java release
>>> - All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
>>>  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
>>>  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
>>>  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
>>>  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
>>>  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
>>>  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...
>>>
>>> Cons:
>>> - Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
>>> - Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users
>>> who want to stay on Java SE 5
>>>
>>> I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Donald
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Given we only have about 5 weeks between now and when should cut a 2.2 
branch, I'm not sure I'd waste time on this.  As Jack pointed out in 
another reply, Java SE 6 has been out almost 2 years, so its time to 
move on  If users want to stay on Java SE 5, we'll be glad to apply 
fixes to the 2.1 branch.



-Donald


Joe Bohn wrote:
I'm certainly in favor of only performing certification on SE 6 runtime 
for 2.2.


I wonder if it would be possible for us to include the JAXB and JAXWS 
support in a plugin for users that might need to continue on SE 5.  If 
this isn't too difficult (or too much of a maintenance nightmare) then 
we might consider it.  Is that even possible?


Joe


Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and 
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the 
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes 
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

Agree.

-Donald

Jack Cai wrote:
I'm on the Java 6 side. There has to be a point where we drop Java 5. 
Java 6 has been around for almost 2 years now. It's time to move on.


-Jack

2008/11/7 Lin Sun <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >

Is it possible for us to support Java SE 5 (with certain known
restrictions) but only certified with Java SE 6?

I think it can be a big usability issue to require users to upgrade to
Java SE 6 in order to use G 2.2.   If we run a survey on our G users
(including committers) I would not be surprised that most of us are
still using Java SE 5.

Using branch 2.1 may not be an option, as some of the
fixes/enhancement are not even avail in branch 2.1.

Lin

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
 > The time has come to make the hard decision -
 >
 > Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK
and drop
 > support for running on Java SE 5?
 >
 > Pros:
 > - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
 > - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in
the JDK,
 > instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes
some more Sun
 > RI from our assemblies)  :-)
 > - Keeps us current on the latest Java release
 > - All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
 >  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
 >  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
 >  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
 >  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
 >  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
 >  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...
 >
 > Cons:
 > - Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
 > - Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any
users who
 > want to stay on Java SE 5
 >
 > I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.
 >
 >
 > -Donald
 >

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

We only certify on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK.  Other Java implementations may 
work (like IBM 1.6.0) but we do not certify on them and look to the 
community to help discover and fix any problems on non-Sun Java 
implementations



-Donald


Dan Becker wrote:
I would agree with supporting Java SE 6 and dropping support for SE 5. I 
think it keeps in with the spirit of being lean and nimble.


However, I want to clarify your comment on "build and certify on Sun 
1.6.0 JDK". I realize build, certify, and run statements are all 
separate items. What's the support statement for which Java SE 6 
platforms run Geronimo? Sun? IBM? OpenJDK? Other?


Donald Woods wrote:
Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and 
drop support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the 
JDK, instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes 
some more Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Jack Cai]

I'm on the Java 6 side. There has to be a point where we drop Java 5. Java 6
has been around for almost 2 years now. It's time to move on.

-Jack

2008/11/7 Lin Sun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Is it possible for us to support Java SE 5 (with certain known
> restrictions) but only certified with Java SE 6?
>
> I think it can be a big usability issue to require users to upgrade to
> Java SE 6 in order to use G 2.2.   If we run a survey on our G users
> (including committers) I would not be surprised that most of us are
> still using Java SE 5.
>
> Using branch 2.1 may not be an option, as some of the
> fixes/enhancement are not even avail in branch 2.1.
>
> Lin
>
> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The time has come to make the hard decision -
> >
> > Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop
> > support for running on Java SE 5?
> >
> > Pros:
> > - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
> > - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK,
> > instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more
> Sun
> > RI from our assemblies)  :-)
> > - Keeps us current on the latest Java release
> > - All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
> >  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
> >  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
> >  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
> >  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
> >  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
> >  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...
> >
> > Cons:
> > - Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
> > - Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users
> who
> > want to stay on Java SE 5
> >
> > I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.
> >
> >
> > -Donald
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Lin Sun]

Is it possible for us to support Java SE 5 (with certain known
restrictions) but only certified with Java SE 6?

I think it can be a big usability issue to require users to upgrade to
Java SE 6 in order to use G 2.2.   If we run a survey on our G users
(including committers) I would not be surprised that most of us are
still using Java SE 5.

Using branch 2.1 may not be an option, as some of the
fixes/enhancement are not even avail in branch 2.1.

Lin

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:04 AM, Donald Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The time has come to make the hard decision -
>
> Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop
> support for running on Java SE 5?
>
> Pros:
> - Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
> - Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK,
> instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more Sun
> RI from our assemblies)  :-)
> - Keeps us current on the latest Java release
> - All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
>  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
>  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
>  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
>  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
>  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
>  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...
>
> Cons:
> - Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
> - Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users who
> want to stay on Java SE 5
>
> I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.
>
>
> -Donald
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Dan Becker]

I would agree with supporting Java SE 6 and dropping support for SE 5. I 
think it keeps in with the spirit of being lean and nimble.


However, I want to clarify your comment on "build and certify on Sun 
1.6.0 JDK". I realize build, certify, and run statements are all 
separate items. What's the support statement for which Java SE 6 
platforms run Geronimo? Sun? IBM? OpenJDK? Other?


Donald Woods wrote:
Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop 
support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK, 
instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more 
Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


--
Thanks, Dan Becker

Re: [DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Joe Bohn]

I'm certainly in favor of only performing certification on SE 6 runtime 
for 2.2.


I wonder if it would be possible for us to include the JAXB and JAXWS 
support in a plugin for users that might need to continue on SE 5.  If 
this isn't too difficult (or too much of a maintenance nightmare) then 
we might consider it.  Is that even possible?


Joe


Donald Woods wrote:

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop 
support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK, 
instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more 
Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald

[DISCUSS] Only Support Java SE 6 with Geronimo 2.2

[Donald Woods]

The time has come to make the hard decision -

Do we only build and certify Geronimo 2.2 on the Sun 1.6.0 JDK and drop 
support for running on Java SE 5?


Pros:
- Reduce testing effort to one version of Java
- Allows us to use the JAXB 2.1, JAX-WS 2.1 and wsgen tools in the JDK, 
instead of shipping those jars in our assemblies (and removes some more 
Sun RI from our assemblies)  :-)

- Keeps us current on the latest Java release
- All major platforms have a Java SE 6 solution:
  - Sun provided 1.6.0 for Windows, Solaris, Linux on Intel/AMD
  - MacOS 10.5.x provides 1.6.0_07
  - openSUSE 11.0/11.1 users can install Sun 1.6.0_10 from build repos
  - Ubuntu 7.04 and later users can install Sun 1.6.0 from net repos
  - Fedora 9/10 comes with OpenJDK 6, but users can install Sun 1.6.0
  - IBM provides 1.6.0 SR2 for AIX, pLinux, zLinux, zOS, ...

Cons:
- Users will have to upgrade to Java SE 6 to run Geronimo 2.2
- Will require us to maintain the 2.1 branch during 2009 for any users 
who want to stay on Java SE 5


I'm for moving to a Java SE 6 only runtime for Geronimo 2.2.


-Donald