Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel.Sun]

Hi  Roman,

You can find the Open Collective information in the project home page:
https://github.com/apache/groovy

I am not sure whether it would entice me to contribute ;-)

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



-
Apache Groovy committer 
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me 
Twitter: @daniel_sun 

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Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel Sun]

Hi Paul,

 Thanks a lot for your hard work to make the proposal come true!

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



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Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Paul King]

The site is open and ready for business:

https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy

The wording is subject to continued evolution so let us know your thoughts.

Cheers, Paul.


On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 4:37 AM MG  wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
> these are good news indeed... ! G-)
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> On 21/02/2019 12:05, Paul King wrote:
>
> I have created a draft open collective site here:
>
> https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy
>
> I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as to
> whether they have accepted the proposal.
>
> Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks folks
> and the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing major as far
> as I can tell.
>
> The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of how
> we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon! Exciting
> news!
>
> Regards, Paul.
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun  wrote:
>>
>>> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me
>>> to
>>> contribute.
>>>
>>> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
>>>
>>
>> That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[MG]

Hi Paul,

these are good news indeed... ! G-)

Cheers,
mg


On 21/02/2019 12:05, Paul King wrote:

I have created a draft open collective site here:

https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy

I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as 
to whether they have accepted the proposal.


Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks 
folks and the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing 
major as far as I can tell.


The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of 
how we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon! 
Exciting news!


Regards, Paul.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik > wrote:


On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun mailto:sun...@apache.org>> wrote:

> I was interested in a statement on the first page that would
entice me to
contribute.

You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org
 ?


That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.

Thanks,
Roman.

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Paul King]

I have created a draft open collective site here:

https://opencollective.com/friends-of-groovy

I expect to hear back from the open collective folks in early March as to
whether they have accepted the proposal.

Also, I have had mainly positive feedback from the ASF trademarks folks and
the board. I have a few minor things to tweak but nothing major as far as
I can tell.

The board would like us to keep them and others at the ASF informed of how
we progress. So it looks like this might get off the ground soon! Exciting
news!

Regards, Paul.

On Tue, Feb 12, 2019 at 6:10 AM Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 12:25 AM Daniel.Sun  wrote:
>
>> > I was interested in a statement on the first page that would entice me
>> to
>> contribute.
>>
>> You mean the first page is groovy-lang.org ?
>>
>
> That would be nice, but at least on the Open Collective landing page.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Roman Shaposhnik]

True, but this is a post-factum view. I was interested in a statement on
the first page that would entice me to contribute.

Thanks,
Roman.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 9:33 PM Daniel.Sun  wrote:

> The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit
> expense", which is open to all people, e.g.
> https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel.Sun]

The opencollective site will record all "contribute" and "submit 
expense", which is open to all people, e.g. 
https://opencollective.com/vuejs#budget

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




-
Apache Groovy committer 
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me 
Twitter: @daniel_sun 

--
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Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Marcin Erdmann]

On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 3:02 PM Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> On a side of somebody who may consider donating -- I'd also like to see a
> clearly
> articulated statement of how the money received will be spent.
>
>
I'd be interested in that too.

Cheers,
Marcin

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 6:30 PM Jennifer Strater 
wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> This thread is about finding out whether we are allowed to use
> OpenSourceCollective(OSC) to fund/reward contributions to the Apache Groovy
> project. The response we are expecting is an unconditional yes, yes with
> clearly defined conditions, or no.
>

The way I see it is this: it is all about how you frame it. The framing
that is very likely
to pass VP Brand test is this: you register an organization there that is
clearly
NOT affiliated with ASF. Call it "Friends of Apache Groovy" or something.
Then in
the short blurb you disclaim the relationship even further.

That's the ASF side.

On a side of somebody who may consider donating -- I'd also like to see a
clearly
articulated statement of how the money received will be spent.

Thanks,
Roman.


> On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:01 AM Roman Shaposhnik 
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> Was there a response from the Apache foundation?  And as always, just
>>> let me know if I can help.
>>>
>>
>> What kind of a response are you looking for?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Jenn
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <
>>> marcin.erdm...@proxerd.pl> wrote:
>>>
 Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
 committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
 that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
 and run it without violating anything.

 Marcin

 On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
 cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As
> a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one
> developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is 
> to
> have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the
> same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that 
> no
> entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC
> members from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by
> the ASF. As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for
> permission from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this
> collective is not affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me
> to do it is that effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of 
> the
> collective, otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF
> itself is looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a
> specific project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all
> benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any
> other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be
> affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy,
> feel free to do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing.
> This can make it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a
> GitHub repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a
> écrit :
>
>> My pleasure :-)
>>
>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
>> encourage
>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
>> Groovy
>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
>> earn
>> additional money for some reason.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Apache Groovy committer
>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Jennifer Strater]

Hi Roman,

This thread is about finding out whether we are allowed to use
OpenSourceCollective(OSC) to fund/reward contributions to the Apache Groovy
project. The response we are expecting is an unconditional yes, yes with
clearly defined conditions, or no.

Best,
Jenn


On Fri, Feb 1, 2019 at 4:01 AM Roman Shaposhnik 
wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Was there a response from the Apache foundation?  And as always, just let
>> me know if I can help.
>>
>
> What kind of a response are you looking for?
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
>>
>> Best,
>> Jenn
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann <
>> marcin.erdm...@proxerd.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
>>> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
>>> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
>>> and run it without violating anything.
>>>
>>> Marcin
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
>>> cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As
 a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.

 First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
 full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
 collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
 as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
 coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
 from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
 As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
 from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
 affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
 effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
 otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
 looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
 project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
 from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
 project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
 to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
 do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
 it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
 repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
 `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
 repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
 respected by preventing you to use this repository.

 Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
 which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.


 Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a écrit :

> My pleasure :-)
>
> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
> encourage
> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
> Groovy
> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
> earn
> additional money for some reason.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Roman Shaposhnik]

On Sat, Jan 19, 2019 at 5:48 AM Jennifer Strater 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Was there a response from the Apache foundation?  And as always, just let
> me know if I can help.
>

What kind of a response are you looking for?

Thanks,
Roman.


>
> Best,
> Jenn
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann 
> wrote:
>
>> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
>> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
>> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
>> and run it without violating anything.
>>
>> Marcin
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau <
>> cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
>>> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>>
>>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
>>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
>>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
>>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
>>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
>>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
>>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
>>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
>>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
>>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
>>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
>>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
>>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
>>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
>>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
>>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
>>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
>>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
>>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>>
>>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a écrit :
>>>
 My pleasure :-)

 Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
 people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
 during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to
 earn
 additional money for some reason.

 Cheers,
 Daniel.Sun




 -
 Apache Groovy committer
 Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
 Twitter: @daniel_sun

 --
 Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html

>>>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[MG]

Was also wondering about that...
The funding topic has been brought up several times and it always seems 
to go back to sleep without any progress, so hope this time will be 
different.


I feel it should not be this hard to give some money to the project one 
likes, just because it is a Apache project ;-)
Maybe automatically rerouting, say, 5% of the money donated to the ASF 
could be another answer for the whole ASF trademark etc issue ?-)


Cheers,
mg


Am 19.01.2019 um 14:48 schrieb Jennifer Strater:

Hi everyone,

Was there a response from the Apache foundation?  And as always, just 
let me know if I can help.


Best,
Jenn

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann 
mailto:marcin.erdm...@proxerd.pl>> wrote:


Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or
a committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the
collective if that helps. Of course only after we figure out how
to actually set it up and run it without violating anything.

Marcin

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau
mailto:cedric.champ...@gmail.com>> wrote:

My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and
support it. As a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I
have some things to say.

First, it's not very different to have one company paying one
developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features
than it is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The
process of integration is the same: we, as PMC members, must
make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have
PMC members from different companies. Second, Groovy is a
brand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should not use
"Apache Groovy" without asking for permission from legal. It
should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do
it is that effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part
of the collective, otherwise there's a conflict of interest.
Especially, the ASF itself is looking for donations, and
donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific project. There
are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit from
the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any
other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must
not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for
developing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never
mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make it rather
complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
`apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy`
is an old repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure
its trademarks are respected by preventing you to use this
repository.

Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way
to do it which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.


Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun mailto:sun...@apache.org>> a écrit :

My pleasure :-)

Once the open collective created, we will discuss the
rules to encourage
people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no
time on Groovy
during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe
they want to earn
additional money for some reason.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




-
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun

--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel.Sun]

No response util now...

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



-
Apache Groovy committer 
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me 
Twitter: @daniel_sun 

--
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Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Jennifer Strater]

Hi everyone,

Was there a response from the Apache foundation?  And as always, just let
me know if I can help.

Best,
Jenn

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 10:35 AM Marcin Erdmann 
wrote:

> Given that I have no association with ASF nor am I a PMC member or a
> committer I would be happy to take ownership of running the collective if
> that helps. Of course only after we figure out how to actually set it up
> and run it without violating anything.
>
> Marcin
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 8:20 AM Cédric Champeau 
> wrote:
>
>> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
>> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>>
>> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
>> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
>> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
>> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
>> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
>> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
>> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
>> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
>> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
>> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
>> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
>> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
>> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
>> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
>> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
>> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
>> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
>> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
>> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
>> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
>> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
>> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>>
>> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
>> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>>
>>
>> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a écrit :
>>
>>> My pleasure :-)
>>>
>>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
>>> additional money for some reason.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Apache Groovy committer
>>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>>
>>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Alessio Stalla]

For 4. (sponsoring individual developers and encouraging developers to
participate) have you considered BountySource?

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 00:46, MG  wrote:

> Some thoughts from my side:
>
>1. Do we know of any other ASF projects who gathers donations ? Would
>be surprising if we were the first to face these questions...
>2. Also wondering if the following would avoid legal pitfalls: Ask for
>donations for "The Groovy Language", an abstract language concept, which
>has as reference implementation "Apache Groovy" on the JVM platform ?
>3. If Open Collective is bound to a GitHub repo etc, then  going with
>a Patreon o.s. might be the obvious alternative with looser coupling to
>trademarks.
>4. Another idea would be to sponsor individual developers directly. I
>know my son's (American) football team had something like that for their
>European league level players at some point. I know this does not align
>completely with Daniel's intentions of getting more people to actively
>participate, but since it is very similar to a company paying a Groovy
>developer, it would probably avoid all legal pitfalls.
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> Am 10.01.2019 um 09:20 schrieb Cédric Champeau:
>
> My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
> Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.
>
> First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
> full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
> collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
> as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
> coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
> from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
> As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
> from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
> affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
> effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
> otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
> looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
> project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
> from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
> project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
> to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
> do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
> it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
> repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
> `apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
> repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
> respected by preventing you to use this repository.
>
> Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
> which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.
>
>
> Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a écrit :
>
>> My pleasure :-)
>>
>> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
>> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
>> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
>> additional money for some reason.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Apache Groovy committer
>> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
>> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>>
>
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[MG]

Some thoughts from my side:

1. Do we know of any other ASF projects who gathers donations ? Would
   be surprising if we were the first to face these questions...
2. Also wondering if the following would avoid legal pitfalls: Ask for
   donations for "The Groovy Language", an abstract language concept,
   which has as reference implementation "Apache Groovy" on the JVM
   platform ?
3. If Open Collective is bound to a GitHub repo etc, then  going with a
   Patreon o.s. might be the obvious alternative with looser coupling
   to trademarks.
4. Another idea would be to sponsor individual developers directly. I
   know my son's (American) football team had something like that for
   their European league level players at some point. I know this does
   not align completely with Daniel's intentions of getting more people
   to actively participate, but since it is very similar to a company
   paying a Groovy developer, it would probably avoid all legal pitfalls.

Cheers,
mg


Am 10.01.2019 um 09:20 schrieb Cédric Champeau:
My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As 
a Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.


First, it's not very different to have one company paying one 
developer full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it 
is to have a collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of 
integration is the same: we, as PMC members, must make sure neutrality 
is followed and that no entity is coercing Groovy for its own needs. 
That's why we try to have PMC members from different companies. 
Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF. As such, you should 
not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission from legal. It 
should also be extremely clear that this collective is not affiliated 
with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that 
effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective, 
otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself 
is looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a 
specific project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we 
all benefit from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, 
as any other project). So it's clear to be that this collective must 
not be affiliated to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for 
developing Groovy, feel free to do it, but it should never mention 
that it's an Apache thing. This can make it rather complicated with 
open collective as it requires a GitHub repository with stars. I feel 
you will NOT be allowed to use `apache/groovy` for the reasons I 
described. `groovy/groovy` is an old repo, and in any case, the ASF 
may want to make sure its trademarks are respected by preventing you 
to use this repository.


Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it 
which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.



Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun > a écrit :


My pleasure :-)

Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to
encourage
people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on
Groovy
during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want
to earn
additional money for some reason.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




-
Apache Groovy committer
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
Twitter: @daniel_sun

--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel Sun]

Agreed. Thanks for your advice. We MUST avoid problems about trademarks or
ASF ownership.

Currently I am waiting for Paul's consulting result about how to create the
open collective and conform to the Apache policy :-)

To make the idea clear, the reason why I propose to create the open
collective is to appeal more people to contribute Groovy. The potential
contributors may be busy at work time and tired after work, so they have no
spare time to contribute, but they maybe want to earn additional money for
some reason.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Cédric Champeau]

My 2 cents: as a Groovy enthusiast, I like the idea and support it. As a
Groovy committer and PMC member, however, I have some things to say.

First, it's not very different to have one company paying one developer
full time to develop Groovy and contribute features than it is to have a
collective "sponsoring" Groovy. The process of integration is the same: we,
as PMC members, must make sure neutrality is followed and that no entity is
coercing Groovy for its own needs. That's why we try to have PMC members
from different companies. Second, Groovy is a brand name owned by the ASF.
As such, you should not use "Apache Groovy" without asking for permission
from legal. It should also be extremely clear that this collective is not
affiliated with the ASF in any way. The best way for me to do it is that
effectively no PMC member, and no committer is part of the collective,
otherwise there's a conflict of interest. Especially, the ASF itself is
looking for donations, and donations MUST NOT be directed at a specific
project. There are good reasons for this (in particular, we all benefit
from the same infrastructure, the same member affiliation, as any other
project). So it's clear to be that this collective must not be affiliated
to Groovy. Should you need sponsorship for developing Groovy, feel free to
do it, but it should never mention that it's an Apache thing. This can make
it rather complicated with open collective as it requires a GitHub
repository with stars. I feel you will NOT be allowed to use
`apache/groovy` for the reasons I described. `groovy/groovy` is an old
repo, and in any case, the ASF may want to make sure its trademarks are
respected by preventing you to use this repository.

Said differently: I like the idea, but you need to find a way to do it
which doesn't involve trademarks or ASF ownership.


Le jeu. 10 janv. 2019 à 02:05, Daniel.Sun  a écrit :

> My pleasure :-)
>
> Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
> people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
> during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
> additional money for some reason.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
>
> -
> Apache Groovy committer
> Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me
> Twitter: @daniel_sun
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html
>

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Daniel.Sun]

My pleasure :-)

Once the open collective created, we will discuss the rules to encourage
people to involve the development of Groovy. They have no time on Groovy
during work time and may be tired after work, but maybe they want to earn
additional money for some reason.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun




-
Apache Groovy committer 
Blog: http://blog.sunlan.me 
Twitter: @daniel_sun 

--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Dev-f372993.html

Re: [PROPOSAL]About creating open collective for Groovy programming language in the name of Groovy Community

[Jochen Theodorou]

First of all I want to say thanks to Daniel for doing this, and I think 
we should try.


On 08.01.19 22:44, MG wrote:
[...]
Might be worth thinking about whether existing sponsors would consider 
giving their donation through the same channel ?


Apparently contributions can be registered in the found as spend money 
and thus will increase the fund size. It would mean the fund never gets 
the money or has to spend it, but the size increases. Why you should do 
that, is a bit beyond me right now.

[...]
I guess it would also not be too hard to integrate a sponsor names or 
logos into e.g. Groovy console (if Apache allows that)...


I think Apache does not allow that.


bye Jochen