Re: Little Red Hen (Was: developer guide for Data Mapper 2.2 seems to be missing section numbering)
Guys I was just joking with the rant. You've got a great product and good documentation (even if it needs a bit of licking into shape). I've got the job at present of team leader to extend a project which contains thousands of lines of hard-coded JDBC. I'm in the process of evaluating whether to try to use IBATIS to make the extension cleaner (at the price of extra risk due to my unfamiliarity with IBATIS) or just creating more hand-coded brainless gunk to maintain. My customers management want NO risk but on the other hand the development staff would be delighted to have somebody introduce IBATIS. If the code works then the management are not ever going to look into how the new features were implemented, if it doesn't my reputation will suck. I've just discussed the issue with the other developers and we are going for it ! I'm praying things go smoothly and I really do want to make an effort to pay back in some small way for the effort you guys have put into this great product. Just I can't promise a time frame. Hope I can contribute soon. Ciao, Richard So it is a tough call! I've done some tests with IBATIS and it was fine but the project calls for some complex mappings so that could be risky for a newbie. I'm leaning to going the path of least resistance for the moment (continuing the hand-coded mess) On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...This story has some interesting parallels to the Open Source Software community... The Story of Little Red Hen == Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat. One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. Look look! she clucked. Who will help me plant this wheat? Not I, quaked the duck, and he waddled away. Not I, oinked the pig, and he trotted away. Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away. Then I will plant it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. Who will help me cut the wheat? she asked. Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat Then I will cut this wheat myself. And she did. Now, said the Little Red Hen, it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen. When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me make this flour into dough? Not I, said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once. Then I will make the dough myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me bake the bread? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I wll bake it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread? I will, said the duck. I will, said the pig. I will, said the cat. No you won't, said the Little Red Hen. You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves! And that's just what they did. Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get us wrong Richard, we're not on your case. Your points are all valid, and we want to take them seriously. I want a solution that: Improves the quality of our documentation Improves the timeliness of our documentation Improves community involvement my wife and baby need some love and attention too. Hehe...not all open source developers are single, university undergrads with all the time in the world. :-) I think Larry and Brandon and myself have 3 wives and 8 children among us (well, we don't share them or anything -- but Larry does live in Montana). So don't think you're unique or that we have any more time than you. Open Source is about sharing time to produce great software (and documentation). The story of Little Red Hen comes to mind (and makes a good bedtime story for our kids). Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why haven't *you* added the section numbers? Typical answer of an opensource geek. Sheesh I suddenly feel an urge to write this friggin JDBC by hand after all. OK, if IBATIS works for me I'll do the doc ;=) Just don't hold your breath - my wife and baby need some love and attention too. Now you guys check out the wiki/docbook thing and get off my case ;=) R.
Re: Little Red Hen (Was: developer guide for Data Mapper 2.2 seems to be missing section numbering)
WE are the gods of open source - only WE are allowed to make jokes. :) (BTW - it seemed clear to me that it was a joke, and this is a joke too) Good luck with iBATIS - I think you'll be happy with the decision. Jeff Butler On 9/22/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys I was just joking with the rant.You've got a great product andgood documentation (even if it needs a bit of licking into shape). I've got the job at present of team leader to extend a project whichcontains thousands of lines of hard-coded JDBC.I'm in the process ofevaluating whetherto try to use IBATIS to make the extension cleaner (at the price of extra risk due to my unfamiliarity with IBATIS) orjust creating more hand-coded brainless gunk to maintain.Mycustomers management want NO risk but on the other hand thedevelopment staff would be delighted to have somebody introduce IBATIS. If the code works then the management are not ever going tolook into how the new features were implemented, if it doesn't myreputation will suck.I've just discussed the issue with the other developers and we are going for it !I'm praying things go smoothly and I really do want to make an effortto pay back in some small way for the effort you guys have put intothis great product.Just I can't promise a time frame. Hope I can contribute soon.Ciao,RichardSo it is a tough call!I've done some tests with IBATIS and it was fine but the project callsfor some complex mappings so that could be risky for a newbie.I'm leaning to going the path of least resistance for the moment(continuing the hand-coded mess)On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...This story has some interesting parallels to the Open Source Software community... The Story of Little Red Hen== Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat. One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. Look look! she clucked. Who will help me plant this wheat? Not I, quaked the duck, and he waddled away. Not I, oinked the pig, and he trotted away. Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away. Then I will plant it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. Who will help me cut the wheat? she asked. Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat Then I will cut this wheat myself. And she did. Now, said the Little Red Hen, it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen. When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me make this flour into dough? Not I, said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once. Then I will make the dough myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me bake the bread? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I wll bake it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread? I will, said the duck. I will, said the pig. I will, said the cat. No you won't, said the Little Red Hen. You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves! And that's just what they did. Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get us wrong Richard, we're not on your case.Your points are all valid, and we want to take them seriously. I want a solution that: Improves the quality of our documentation Improves the timeliness of our documentation Improves community involvement my wife and baby need some love and attention too. Hehe...not all open source developers are single, university undergrads with all the time in the world.:-) I think Larry and Brandon and myself have 3 wives and 8 children among us (well, we don't share them or anything -- but Larry does live in Montana). So don't think you're unique or that we have any more time than you.Open Source is about sharing time to produce great software (and documentation). The story of Little Red Hen comes to mind (and makes a good bedtime story for our kids). Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why haven't *you* added the section numbers? Typical answer of an opensource geek.Sheesh I suddenly feel an urge to write this friggin JDBC by hand after all.OK, if IBATIS works for me I'll do the doc ;=)Just don't hold your breath - my wife and baby need some love and attention too.
Re: Little Red Hen (Was: developer guide for Data Mapper 2.2 seems to be missing section numbering)
Remember that iBATIS fits well into a Straight JDBC/iBATIS hybrid. So, if you run into anything that iBATIS can't/shouldn't handle you can/should utilize JDBC. On top of that we are always here to help you. I really do want to make an effort to pay back in some small wayPayments can be made with Check or Visa. Make checks payable to my name ;-)Brandon Goodin On 9/22/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys I was just joking with the rant.You've got a great product andgood documentation (even if it needs a bit of licking into shape).I've got the job at present of team leader to extend a project whichcontains thousands of lines of hard-coded JDBC.I'm in the process of evaluating whetherto try to use IBATIS to make the extension cleaner(at the price of extra risk due to my unfamiliarity with IBATIS) orjust creating more hand-coded brainless gunk to maintain.Mycustomers management want NO risk but on the other hand the development staff would be delighted to have somebody introduceIBATIS. If the code works then the management are not ever going tolook into how the new features were implemented, if it doesn't myreputation will suck. I've just discussed the issue with the other developers and we aregoing for it !I'm praying things go smoothly and I really do want to make an effortto pay back in some small way for the effort you guys have put into this great product.Just I can't promise a time frame.Hope I can contribute soon.Ciao,RichardSo it is a tough call!I've done some tests with IBATIS and it was fine but the project calls for some complex mappings so that could be risky for a newbie.I'mleaning to going the path of least resistance for the moment(continuing the hand-coded mess)On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...This story has some interesting parallels to the Open Source Software community... The Story of Little Red Hen== Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat. One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. Look look! she clucked. Who will help me plant this wheat? Not I, quaked the duck, and he waddled away. Not I, oinked the pig, and he trotted away. Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away. Then I will plant it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. Who will help me cut the wheat? she asked. Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat Then I will cut this wheat myself. And she did. Now, said the Little Red Hen, it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen. When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me make this flour into dough? Not I, said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once. Then I will make the dough myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me bake the bread? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I wll bake it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread? I will, said the duck. I will, said the pig. I will, said the cat. No you won't, said the Little Red Hen. You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves! And that's just what they did. Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get us wrong Richard, we're not on your case.Your points are all valid, and we want to take them seriously. I want a solution that: Improves the quality of our documentation Improves the timeliness of our documentation Improves community involvement my wife and baby need some love and attention too. Hehe...not all open source developers are single, university undergrads with all the time in the world.:-) I think Larry and Brandon and myself have 3 wives and 8 children among us (well, we don't share them or anything -- but Larry does live in Montana). So don't think you're unique or that we have any more time than you.Open Source is about sharing time to produce great software (and documentation). The story of Little Red Hen comes to mind (and makes a good bedtime story for our kids). Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why haven't *you* added the section numbers? Typical answer of an opensource geek.Sheesh I suddenly feel an urge to write this friggin JDBC by hand after
Re: Little Red Hen (Was: developer guide for Data Mapper 2.2 seems to be missing section numbering)
Hey Richard, don't worry man. We love you. Like I said, your questions and feedback are being taken very seriously and have raised other interesting topics on the side. You're already a contributor in our eyes. Let us know how it goes.ClintonOn 9/22/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Guys I was just joking with the rant.You've got a great product and good documentation (even if it needs a bit of licking into shape).I've got the job at present of team leader to extend a project whichcontains thousands of lines of hard-coded JDBC.I'm in the process ofevaluating whetherto try to use IBATIS to make the extension cleaner (at the price of extra risk due to my unfamiliarity with IBATIS) orjust creating more hand-coded brainless gunk to maintain.Mycustomers management want NO risk but on the other hand thedevelopment staff would be delighted to have somebody introduce IBATIS. If the code works then the management are not ever going tolook into how the new features were implemented, if it doesn't myreputation will suck.I've just discussed the issue with the other developers and we are going for it !I'm praying things go smoothly and I really do want to make an effortto pay back in some small way for the effort you guys have put intothis great product.Just I can't promise a time frame. Hope I can contribute soon.Ciao,RichardSo it is a tough call!I've done some tests with IBATIS and it was fine but the project callsfor some complex mappings so that could be risky for a newbie.I'm leaning to going the path of least resistance for the moment(continuing the hand-coded mess)On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...This story has some interesting parallels to the Open Source Software community... The Story of Little Red Hen== Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat. One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. Look look! she clucked. Who will help me plant this wheat? Not I, quaked the duck, and he waddled away. Not I, oinked the pig, and he trotted away. Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away. Then I will plant it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. Who will help me cut the wheat? she asked. Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat Then I will cut this wheat myself. And she did. Now, said the Little Red Hen, it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen. When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me make this flour into dough? Not I, said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once. Then I will make the dough myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me bake the bread? Not I, said the duck. Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the cat. Then I wll bake it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread? I will, said the duck. I will, said the pig. I will, said the cat. No you won't, said the Little Red Hen. You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves! And that's just what they did. Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't get us wrong Richard, we're not on your case.Your points are all valid, and we want to take them seriously. I want a solution that: Improves the quality of our documentation Improves the timeliness of our documentation Improves community involvement my wife and baby need some love and attention too. Hehe...not all open source developers are single, university undergrads with all the time in the world.:-) I think Larry and Brandon and myself have 3 wives and 8 children among us (well, we don't share them or anything -- but Larry does live in Montana). So don't think you're unique or that we have any more time than you.Open Source is about sharing time to produce great software (and documentation). The story of Little Red Hen comes to mind (and makes a good bedtime story for our kids). Cheers, Clinton On 9/21/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why haven't *you* added the section numbers? Typical answer of an opensource geek.Sheesh I suddenly feel an urge to write this friggin JDBC by hand after all.OK, if IBATIS works for me I'll do the doc ;=)Just don't hold your breath - my wife and baby need some love and
Little Red Hen (Was: developer guide for Data Mapper 2.2 seems to be missing section numbering)
...This story has some interesting parallels to the Open Source Software community...The Story of Little Red Hen ==Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat.One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. Look look! she clucked. Who will help me plant this wheat? Not I, quaked the duck, and he waddled away.Not I, oinked the pig, and he trotted away.Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away.Then I will plant it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. Who will help me cut the wheat? she asked.Not I, said the duck.Not I, said the pig. Not I, said the catThen I will cut this wheat myself. And she did.Now, said the Little Red Hen, it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me? Not I, said the duck.Not I, said the pig.Not I, said the cat.Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did. The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen.When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me make this flour into dough? Not I, said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once.Then I will make the dough myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did.When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Who will help me bake the bread? Not I, said the duck.Not I, said the pig.Not I, said the cat.Then I wll bake it myself, said the Little Red Hen. And she did.Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread? I will, said the duck.I will, said the pig.I will, said the cat.No you won't, said the Little Red Hen. You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves! And that's just what they did.Cheers,ClintonOn 9/21/06, Clinton Begin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Don't get us wrong Richard, we're not on your case. Your points are all valid, and we want to take them seriously. I want a solution that: Improves the quality of our documentationImproves the timeliness of our documentation Improves community involvement my wife and baby need some love and attention too.Hehe...not all open source developers are single, university undergrads with all the time in the world. :-) I think Larry and Brandon and myself have 3 wives and 8 children among us (well, we don't share them or anything -- but Larry does live in Montana). So don't think you're unique or that we have any more time than you. Open Source is about sharing time to produce great software (and documentation). The story of Little Red Hen comes to mind (and makes a good bedtime story for our kids).Cheers,ClintonOn 9/21/06, Richard Sullivan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why haven't *you* added the section numbers?Typical answer of an opensource geek.Sheesh I suddenly feel an urgeto write this friggin JDBC by hand after all.OK, if IBATIS works forme I'll do the doc ;=)Just don't hold your breath - my wife and baby need some love and attention too.Now you guys check out the wiki/docbook thing and get off my case ;=)R.
