Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-18 Thread Paolo Patierno
I'm just thinking that having output into a topic every X seconds thanks to the 
windowing could be a useful feature without using something interactive queries 
that are really powerful (I love them) but aren't so useful in this scenario.

Using the caching parameter isn't useful in such scenario because it's in terms 
of bytes not in terms of time.


Let's consider another scenario ...


I have a sensor sending data every 1 seconds. Let's assume that our stream 
processing application is not online and the source topic is filled by sensor 
data with related event time.

When the stream processing application comes online I'd like to have a record 
in the final topic every 5 seconds in order to have an history as well (because 
the application was offline). To be clear ...

Imagine that starting from t = 0, the sensor starts to send data but 
application is offline and the topic is filled from t = 0 to t = 12 (with 12 
events, one per second).

At t = 12 application comes back online and processes the stream in order to 
process data from t = 0 to t = 4 (so first 5 seconds) putting the result into 
the destination queue. Then from t = 5 to t = 9 (other 5 seconds) putting the 
result into the destination queue and so on. If sensor rate isn't so fast then 
the application will start to process in real time at some point (it seems to 
me something like a batch processing which becomes real time processing).

This scenario, for example, isn't possible with Spark today because when the 
application comes back online it process all data from t = 0 to t = 12 
immediately as they were a whole burst of data without considering t as event 
time to take into account for processing.


I'm thinking aloud, considering some scenario that could have a value in the 
IoT space ...


Thanks,

Paolo.


Paolo Patierno
Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
Microsoft Azure Advisor

Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>



From: Michal Borowiecki <michal.borowie...@openbet.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2017 9:34 AM
To: dev@kafka.apache.org; Jay Kreps
Cc: us...@kafka.apache.org; Matthias J. Sax
Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window


If confusion is the problem, then totally agree no point adding more knobs. 
Perhaps you're right that users don't really want processing-time semantics. 
Just think they want them until they start considering replay/catch-up 
scenarios. I guess people rarely think about those from the start (I sure 
didn't).

Cheers,

Michał

On 16/06/17 17:54, Jay Kreps wrote:
I think the question is when do you actually want processing time semantics? 
There are definitely times when its safe to assume the two are close enough 
that a little lossiness doesn't matter much but it is pretty hard to make 
assumptions about when the processing time is and has been hard for us to think 
of a use case where its actually desirable.

I think mostly what we've seen is confusion about the core concepts:

  *   stream -- immutable events that occur
  *   tables (including windows) -- current state of the world

If the root problem is confusion adding knobs never makes it better. If the 
root problem is we're missing important use cases that justify the additional 
knobs then i think it's good to try to really understand them. I think there 
could be use cases around systems that don't take updates, example would be 
email, twitter, and some metrics stores.

One solution that would be less complexity inducing than allowing new 
semantics, but might help with the use cases we need to collect, would be to 
add a new operator in the DSL. Something like .freezeAfter(30, 
TimeUnit.SECONDS) that collects all updates for a given window and both emits 
and enforces a single output after 30 seconds after the advancement of stream 
time and remembers that it is omitted, suppressing all further output (so the 
output is actually a KStream). This might or might not depend on wall clock 
time. Perhaps this is in fact what you are proposing?

-Jay



On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 2:38 AM, Michal Borowiecki 
<michal.borowie...@openbet.com<mailto:michal.borowie...@openbet.com>> wrote:

I wonder if it's a frequent enough use case that Kafka Streams should consider 
providing this out of the box - this was asked for multiple times, right?

Personally, I agree totally with the philosophy of "no final aggregation", as 
expressed by Eno's post, but IMO that is predicated totally on event-time 
semantics.

If users want processing-time semantics then, as the docs already point out, 
there is no such thing as a late-arriving record - every record just falls in 
the currently open window(s), hence the notion of final aggregation makes 
perfect sense, from the usability poin

Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-18 Thread Michal Borowiecki
ndows for which "window end time" passed.


-Matthias

On 6/15/17 9:21 AM, Paolo Patierno wrote:

Hi Eno,


regarding closing window I think that it's up to the streaming application. 
I mean ...

If I want something like I described, I know that a value outside my 5 seconds window 
will be taken into account for the next processing (in the next 5 seconds). I don't think 
I'm losing a record, I am ware that this record will fall in the next 
"processing" window. Btw I'll take a look at your article ! Thanks !


Paolo


Paolo Patierno
Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
Microsoft Azure Advisor

Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>



From: Eno Thereska<eno.there...@gmail.com> <mailto:eno.there...@gmail.com>
    Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:57 PM
To:us...@kafka.apache.org <mailto:us...@kafka.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

Hi Paolo,

Yeah, so if you want fewer records, you should actually "not" disable 
cache. If you disable cache you'll get all the records as you described.

About closing windows: if you close a window and a late record arrives that 
should have been in that window, you basically lose the ability to process that 
record. In Kafka Streams we are robust to that, in that we handle late arriving 
records. There is a comparison here for example when we compare it to other 
methods that depend on watermarks or 
triggers:https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/
<https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>  
<https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>
<https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>

Eno



On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:57, Paolo Patierno<ppatie...@live.com> 
<mailto:ppatie...@live.com>  wrote:

Hi Emo,


thanks for the reply !

Regarding the cache I'm already using CACHE_MAX_BYTES_BUFFERING_CONFIG = 0 
(so disabling cache).

Regarding the interactive query API (I'll take a look) it means that it's 
up to the application doing something like we have oob with Spark.

May I ask what do you mean with "We don’t believe in closing windows" ? 
Isn't it much more code that user has to write for having the same result ?

I'm exploring Kafka Streams and it's very powerful imho even because the 
usage is pretty simple but this scenario could have a lack against Spark.


Thanks,

Paolo.


Paolo Patierno
Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
Microsoft Azure Advisor

Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>


    ________
From: Eno Thereska<eno.there...@gmail.com> <mailto:eno.there...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:45 PM
To:us...@kafka.apache.org <mailto:us...@kafka.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

Hi Paolo,

That is indeed correct. We don’t believe in closing windows in Kafka 
Streams.
You could reduce the number of downstream records by using record 
caches:http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl

<http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>
  
<http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>

<http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>.

Alternatively you can just query the KTable whenever you want using the 
Interactive Query APIs (so when you query dictates what  data you receive), see 
thishttps://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/

<https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>
  
<https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>

<https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>

Thanks
Eno

On Jun 15, 2017, at 2:

Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-16 Thread Matthias J. Sax
Thanks Michał!

That is very good feedback.


-Matthias

On 6/16/17 2:38 AM, Michal Borowiecki wrote:
> I wonder if it's a frequent enough use case that Kafka Streams should
> consider providing this out of the box - this was asked for multiple
> times, right?
> 
> Personally, I agree totally with the philosophy of "no final
> aggregation", as expressed by Eno's post, but IMO that is predicated
> totally on event-time semantics.
> 
> If users want processing-time semantics then, as the docs already point
> out, there is no such thing as a late-arriving record - every record
> just falls in the currently open window(s), hence the notion of final
> aggregation makes perfect sense, from the usability point of view.
> 
> The single abstraction of "stream time" proves leaky in some cases (e.g.
> for punctuate method - being addressed in KIP-138). Perhaps this is
> another case where processing-time semantics warrant explicit handling
> in the api - but of course, only if there's sufficient user demand for this.
> 
> What I could imagine is a new type of time window
> (ProcessingTimeWindow?), that if used in an aggregation, the underlying
> processor would force the WallclockTimestampExtractor (KAFKA-4144
> enables that) and would use the system-time punctuation (KIP-138) to
> send the final aggregation value once the window has expired and could
> be configured to not send intermediate updates while the window was open.
> 
> Of course this is just a helper for the users, since they can implement
> it all themselves using the low-level API, as Matthias pointed out
> already. Just seems there's recurring interest in this.
> 
> Again, this only makes sense for processing time semantics. For
> event-time semantics I find the arguments for "no final aggregation"
> totally convincing.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Michał
> 
> 
> On 16/06/17 00:08, Matthias J. Sax wrote:
>> Hi Paolo,
>>
>> This SO question might help, too:
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38935904/how-to-send-final-kafka-streams-aggregation-result-of-a-time-windowed-ktable
>>
>> For Streams, the basic model is based on "change" and we report updates
>> to the "current" result immediately reducing latency to a minimum.
>>
>> Last, if you say it's going to fall into the next window, you won't get
>> event time semantics but you fall back processing time semantics, that
>> cannot provide exact results
>>
>> If you really want to trade-off correctness version getting (late)
>> updates and want to use processing time semantics, you should configure
>> WallclockTimestampExtractor and implement a "update deduplication"
>> operator using table.toStream().transform(). You can attached a state to
>> your transformer and store all update there (ie, newer update overwrite
>> older updates). Punctuations allow you to emit "final" results for
>> windows for which "window end time" passed.
>>
>>
>> -Matthias
>>
>> On 6/15/17 9:21 AM, Paolo Patierno wrote:
>>> Hi Eno,
>>>
>>>
>>> regarding closing window I think that it's up to the streaming application. 
>>> I mean ...
>>>
>>> If I want something like I described, I know that a value outside my 5 
>>> seconds window will be taken into account for the next processing (in the 
>>> next 5 seconds). I don't think I'm losing a record, I am ware that this 
>>> record will fall in the next "processing" window. Btw I'll take a look at 
>>> your article ! Thanks !
>>>
>>>
>>> Paolo
>>>
>>>
>>> Paolo Patierno
>>> Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
>>> Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
>>> Microsoft Azure Advisor
>>>
>>> Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
>>> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
>>> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:57 PM
>>> To: us...@kafka.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window
>>>
>>> Hi Paolo,
>>>
>>> Yeah, so if you want fewer records, you should actually "not" disable 
>>> cache. If you disable cache you'll get all the records as you described.
>>>
>>> About closing windows: if you close a window and a late record arri

Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-16 Thread Jay Kreps
m ware that this 
> record will fall in the next "processing" window. Btw I'll take a look at 
> your article ! Thanks !
>
>
> Paolo
>
>
> Paolo Patierno
> Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
> Microsoft Azure Advisor
>
> Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
> <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> 
> <http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> 
> <http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
>
>
> 
> From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com> <eno.there...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:57 PM
> To: us...@kafka.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window
>
> Hi Paolo,
>
> Yeah, so if you want fewer records, you should actually "not" disable cache. 
> If you disable cache you'll get all the records as you described.
>
> About closing windows: if you close a window and a late record arrives that 
> should have been in that window, you basically lose the ability to process 
> that record. In Kafka Streams we are robust to that, in that we handle late 
> arriving records. There is a comparison here for example when we compare it 
> to other methods that depend on watermarks or triggers: 
> https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/ 
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/> 
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>
>
> Eno
>
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:57, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> 
> <ppatie...@live.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Emo,
>
>
> thanks for the reply !
>
> Regarding the cache I'm already using CACHE_MAX_BYTES_BUFFERING_CONFIG = 0 
> (so disabling cache).
>
> Regarding the interactive query API (I'll take a look) it means that it's up 
> to the application doing something like we have oob with Spark.
>
> May I ask what do you mean with "We don’t believe in closing windows" ? Isn't 
> it much more code that user has to write for having the same result ?
>
> I'm exploring Kafka Streams and it's very powerful imho even because the 
> usage is pretty simple but this scenario could have a lack against Spark.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paolo.
>
>
> Paolo Patierno
> Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
> Microsoft Azure Advisor
>
> Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
> <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> 
> <http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> 
> <http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
>
>
> 
> From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com> <eno.there...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:45 PM
> To: us...@kafka.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window
>
> Hi Paolo,
>
> That is indeed correct. We don’t believe in closing windows in Kafka Streams.
> You could reduce the number of downstream records by using record caches: 
> http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl
>  
> <http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>
>  
> <http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>.
>
> Alternatively you can just query the KTable whenever you want using the 
> Interactive Query APIs (so when you query dictates what  data you receive), 
> see this 
> https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/
>  
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>
>  
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>
>
> Thanks
> Eno
>
> On Jun 15, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> 
> <ppatie...@live.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> using the streams library I noticed a difference (or there is a lack of 
> knowledge on my side)with Apache Spark.
>
> Imagine following scenario ...
>
>
> I have a source topic where numeric values come in and I want to check the 
> maximum value in the latest 5 seconds but ... putting the max value into a 
> destination topic every 5 seconds.
>
> Thi

Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-16 Thread Jay Kreps
m ware that this 
> record will fall in the next "processing" window. Btw I'll take a look at 
> your article ! Thanks !
>
>
> Paolo
>
>
> Paolo Patierno
> Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
> Microsoft Azure Advisor
>
> Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
> <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> 
> <http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> 
> <http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
>
>
> 
> From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com> <eno.there...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:57 PM
> To: us...@kafka.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window
>
> Hi Paolo,
>
> Yeah, so if you want fewer records, you should actually "not" disable cache. 
> If you disable cache you'll get all the records as you described.
>
> About closing windows: if you close a window and a late record arrives that 
> should have been in that window, you basically lose the ability to process 
> that record. In Kafka Streams we are robust to that, in that we handle late 
> arriving records. There is a comparison here for example when we compare it 
> to other methods that depend on watermarks or triggers: 
> https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/ 
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/> 
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>
>
> Eno
>
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:57, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> 
> <ppatie...@live.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Emo,
>
>
> thanks for the reply !
>
> Regarding the cache I'm already using CACHE_MAX_BYTES_BUFFERING_CONFIG = 0 
> (so disabling cache).
>
> Regarding the interactive query API (I'll take a look) it means that it's up 
> to the application doing something like we have oob with Spark.
>
> May I ask what do you mean with "We don’t believe in closing windows" ? Isn't 
> it much more code that user has to write for having the same result ?
>
> I'm exploring Kafka Streams and it's very powerful imho even because the 
> usage is pretty simple but this scenario could have a lack against Spark.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paolo.
>
>
> Paolo Patierno
> Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
> Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
> Microsoft Azure Advisor
>
> Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> 
> <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> 
> <http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> 
> <http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>
>
>
> 
> From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com> <eno.there...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 1:45 PM
> To: us...@kafka.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window
>
> Hi Paolo,
>
> That is indeed correct. We don’t believe in closing windows in Kafka Streams.
> You could reduce the number of downstream records by using record caches: 
> http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl
>  
> <http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>
>  
> <http://docs.confluent.io/current/streams/developer-guide.html#record-caches-in-the-dsl>.
>
> Alternatively you can just query the KTable whenever you want using the 
> Interactive Query APIs (so when you query dictates what  data you receive), 
> see this 
> https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/
>  
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>
>  
> <https://www.confluent.io/blog/unifying-stream-processing-and-interactive-queries-in-apache-kafka/>
>
> Thanks
> Eno
>
> On Jun 15, 2017, at 2:38 PM, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> 
> <ppatie...@live.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>
> using the streams library I noticed a difference (or there is a lack of 
> knowledge on my side)with Apache Spark.
>
> Imagine following scenario ...
>
>
> I have a source topic where numeric values come in and I want to check the 
> maximum value in the latest 5 seconds but ... putting the max value into a 
> destination topic every 5 seconds.
>
> Thi

Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

2017-06-16 Thread Michal Borowiecki
I wonder if it's a frequent enough use case that Kafka Streams should 
consider providing this out of the box - this was asked for multiple 
times, right?


Personally, I agree totally with the philosophy of "no final 
aggregation", as expressed by Eno's post, but IMO that is predicated 
totally on event-time semantics.


If users want processing-time semantics then, as the docs already point 
out, there is no such thing as a late-arriving record - every record 
just falls in the currently open window(s), hence the notion of final 
aggregation makes perfect sense, from the usability point of view.


The single abstraction of "stream time" proves leaky in some cases (e.g. 
for punctuate method - being addressed in KIP-138). Perhaps this is 
another case where processing-time semantics warrant explicit handling 
in the api - but of course, only if there's sufficient user demand for this.


What I could imagine is a new type of time window 
(ProcessingTimeWindow?), that if used in an aggregation, the underlying 
processor would force the WallclockTimestampExtractor (KAFKA-4144 
enables that) and would use the system-time punctuation (KIP-138) to 
send the final aggregation value once the window has expired and could 
be configured to not send intermediate updates while the window was open.


Of course this is just a helper for the users, since they can implement 
it all themselves using the low-level API, as Matthias pointed out 
already. Just seems there's recurring interest in this.


Again, this only makes sense for processing time semantics. For 
event-time semantics I find the arguments for "no final aggregation" 
totally convincing.



Cheers,

Michał


On 16/06/17 00:08, Matthias J. Sax wrote:

Hi Paolo,

This SO question might help, too:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/38935904/how-to-send-final-kafka-streams-aggregation-result-of-a-time-windowed-ktable

For Streams, the basic model is based on "change" and we report updates
to the "current" result immediately reducing latency to a minimum.

Last, if you say it's going to fall into the next window, you won't get
event time semantics but you fall back processing time semantics, that
cannot provide exact results

If you really want to trade-off correctness version getting (late)
updates and want to use processing time semantics, you should configure
WallclockTimestampExtractor and implement a "update deduplication"
operator using table.toStream().transform(). You can attached a state to
your transformer and store all update there (ie, newer update overwrite
older updates). Punctuations allow you to emit "final" results for
windows for which "window end time" passed.


-Matthias

On 6/15/17 9:21 AM, Paolo Patierno wrote:

Hi Eno,


regarding closing window I think that it's up to the streaming application. I 
mean ...

If I want something like I described, I know that a value outside my 5 seconds window 
will be taken into account for the next processing (in the next 5 seconds). I don't think 
I'm losing a record, I am ware that this record will fall in the next 
"processing" window. Btw I'll take a look at your article ! Thanks !


Paolo


Paolo Patierno
Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat
Microsoft MVP on Windows Embedded & IoT
Microsoft Azure Advisor

Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/>



From: Eno Thereska <eno.there...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 3:57 PM
To: us...@kafka.apache.org
Subject: Re: Kafka Streams vs Spark Streaming : reduce by window

Hi Paolo,

Yeah, so if you want fewer records, you should actually "not" disable cache. If 
you disable cache you'll get all the records as you described.

About closing windows: if you close a window and a late record arrives that should 
have been in that window, you basically lose the ability to process that record. In 
Kafka Streams we are robust to that, in that we handle late arriving records. There 
is a comparison here for example when we compare it to other methods that depend on 
watermarks or triggers: 
https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/ 
<https://www.confluent.io/blog/watermarks-tables-event-time-dataflow-model/>

Eno



On 15 Jun 2017, at 14:57, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> wrote:

Hi Emo,


thanks for the reply !

Regarding the cache I'm already using CACHE_MAX_BYTES_BUFFERING_CONFIG = 0 (so 
disabling cache).

Regarding the interactive query API (I'll take a look) it means that it's up to 
the application doing something like we have oob with Spark.

May I ask what do you mean with "We don’t believe in closing windows" ? Isn't 
it much more code that user has to write for having the same result ?

I'm ex