Re: Hello World!
> Christian Schneider : > Another issue is that especially for dependency injection there are quite a > few alternatives. Every of these come with their own pros and cons. > As a beginner it is difficult to understand and decide how to start. Personally I don't understand why anyone would use something other than DS, but YMMV...:-)
Re: Hello World!
It makes sense, and I agree with you, sometime users are lost to find the right solution. Karaf examples show a "panel" of what you can do, in different ways. I would propose a full application, more "directive" in the approach used, a bit as we did in Decanter (adopting SCR everywhere, etc). A full stack application running in Karaf (as example) would be great, probably not as part of the Karaf examples, but more a karaf-tutorial or karaf-boot isolated repo (not necessary at Apache). Regards JB On 20/09/2019 09:55, Christian Schneider wrote: > Don't get me wrong. The karaf examples are great and do a good job in > showing all the features karaf has. > The big issue though is that the examples show a lot of ways of doing the > same thing. This is the right choice when it is about showing the features > of karaf. > It is not good as an introduction for how to create a streamlined > application as it offers too many choices. > > What I have in mind is a very opinionated and structured documentation that > concentrates on one solution for each of the parts of an application. It > also has to show how it all fits together. This is very different from the > goals of the karaf examples. > > I remember well the discussion we had about the karaf examples and about > how opinionated they should be. I think you were right about being not very > opinionated for karaf examples. It fits the idea of the platform. > > Christian > > > Am Do., 19. Sept. 2019 um 15:43 Uhr schrieb Julian Feinauer < > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>: > >> Thanks Christian, I will check out your stuff later on. Ideally I would >> love to have a book about karaf and some osgi basics and ds... But I guess >> that's a lot of work. >> >> So I think tutorials and examples are a good pragmatic compromise : ) >> >> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré >> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:15:08 AM >> To: dev@karaf.apache.org >> Subject: Re: Hello World! >> >> Hi Christian, >> >> I think Karaf examples are good enough to start. They are maybe too >> simple but provide "classic" use cases (rest, service, jpa, etc). >> >> I agree we can do more, and we are working on it. It's something I >> discuss with some guys at ApacheCon last week. >> I will come with concrete proposal soon ;) >> >> Regards >> JB >> >> >> On 19/09/2019 15:02, Christian Schneider wrote: >>> The problem with OSGi docs is that most of the material is quite old. >>> Much of it does not apply to modern OSGi development anymore. >>> >>> Another issue is that especially for dependency injection there are >> quite a >>> few alternatives. Every of these come with their own pros and cons. >>> As a beginner it is difficult to understand and decide how to start. >>> >>> Karaf is a great way to start playing with OSGi as many things are >> readily >>> available and the shell and webconsole allow some nice insight into the >>> system. What karaf does not provide though is a good introduction into >>> OSGi. I tried to do so with my tutorials but they are more like explained >>> examples. >>> >>> I planned to do a longer introduction around how to build a typical >>> application based on best practices .. but it is a lot of work and I >> never >>> really took on the task. >>> >>> You might be interested in my recent talk about OSGi best practices. >>> Unfortunately in 30 minutes I was not able to really explain how to build >>> an application but maybe the example helps a bit. >>> https://adapt.to/2019/en/schedule/osgi-best-practices.html >>> The most interesting part there is maybe how to build bundles without xml >>> config. >>> The new annotations that combine requirements and configs are also very >>> interesting. >>> Both of these are not yet covered by much material on the web. >>> In the example there is a small application with an angular front end >> and a >>> jax-rs backend that can be easily installed in karaf. >>> >>> Christian >>> >>> >>> Am Mi., 18. Sept. 2019 um 06:45 Uhr schrieb Julian Feinauer < >>> j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>: >>> Hi, it was not so much karaf (I kind of liked it from the start) it was >> rather OSGi. We come from spring and when I looked through all the osgi material lots of it seemed strange and confusing like Aries, Blueprint, DS, enRoute, >> ... . Serge helped me a lot with sorting the things in my head and getting all clear (also with bundle vs. feature vs. feature-repo) and DS stuff and >> lots more. So I think Karaf is already doing an excellent job its rather the OSGi world that is damn confusing and one thing that probably could help is a small OSGi introduction or something. I hope that helps! Julian Am 16.09.19, 11:47 schrieb "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" : By the way, Julian, I'm curious. Why did you consider Karaf "hard >> for you to adopt" ? It's to understand what we can improve (maybe message/website, e
Re: Hello World!
Don't get me wrong. The karaf examples are great and do a good job in showing all the features karaf has. The big issue though is that the examples show a lot of ways of doing the same thing. This is the right choice when it is about showing the features of karaf. It is not good as an introduction for how to create a streamlined application as it offers too many choices. What I have in mind is a very opinionated and structured documentation that concentrates on one solution for each of the parts of an application. It also has to show how it all fits together. This is very different from the goals of the karaf examples. I remember well the discussion we had about the karaf examples and about how opinionated they should be. I think you were right about being not very opinionated for karaf examples. It fits the idea of the platform. Christian Am Do., 19. Sept. 2019 um 15:43 Uhr schrieb Julian Feinauer < j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>: > Thanks Christian, I will check out your stuff later on. Ideally I would > love to have a book about karaf and some osgi basics and ds... But I guess > that's a lot of work. > > So I think tutorials and examples are a good pragmatic compromise : ) > > From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 8:15:08 AM > To: dev@karaf.apache.org > Subject: Re: Hello World! > > Hi Christian, > > I think Karaf examples are good enough to start. They are maybe too > simple but provide "classic" use cases (rest, service, jpa, etc). > > I agree we can do more, and we are working on it. It's something I > discuss with some guys at ApacheCon last week. > I will come with concrete proposal soon ;) > > Regards > JB > > > On 19/09/2019 15:02, Christian Schneider wrote: > > The problem with OSGi docs is that most of the material is quite old. > > Much of it does not apply to modern OSGi development anymore. > > > > Another issue is that especially for dependency injection there are > quite a > > few alternatives. Every of these come with their own pros and cons. > > As a beginner it is difficult to understand and decide how to start. > > > > Karaf is a great way to start playing with OSGi as many things are > readily > > available and the shell and webconsole allow some nice insight into the > > system. What karaf does not provide though is a good introduction into > > OSGi. I tried to do so with my tutorials but they are more like explained > > examples. > > > > I planned to do a longer introduction around how to build a typical > > application based on best practices .. but it is a lot of work and I > never > > really took on the task. > > > > You might be interested in my recent talk about OSGi best practices. > > Unfortunately in 30 minutes I was not able to really explain how to build > > an application but maybe the example helps a bit. > > https://adapt.to/2019/en/schedule/osgi-best-practices.html > > The most interesting part there is maybe how to build bundles without xml > > config. > > The new annotations that combine requirements and configs are also very > > interesting. > > Both of these are not yet covered by much material on the web. > > In the example there is a small application with an angular front end > and a > > jax-rs backend that can be easily installed in karaf. > > > > Christian > > > > > > Am Mi., 18. Sept. 2019 um 06:45 Uhr schrieb Julian Feinauer < > > j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> it was not so much karaf (I kind of liked it from the start) it was > rather > >> OSGi. > >> We come from spring and when I looked through all the osgi material lots > >> of it seemed strange and confusing like Aries, Blueprint, DS, enRoute, > ... . > >> Serge helped me a lot with sorting the things in my head and getting all > >> clear (also with bundle vs. feature vs. feature-repo) and DS stuff and > lots > >> more. > >> So I think Karaf is already doing an excellent job its rather the OSGi > >> world that is damn confusing and one thing that probably could help is a > >> small OSGi introduction or something. > >> > >> I hope that helps! > >> Julian > >> > >> Am 16.09.19, 11:47 schrieb "Jean-Baptiste Onofré" : > >> > >> By the way, Julian, I'm curious. Why did you consider Karaf "hard > for > >> you to adopt" ? It's to understand what we can improve (maybe > >> message/website, example, whatever) in the project to change that ! > >> > >> Thanks ! > >> Regards > >> JB > >> > >> On 16/09/2019 18:21, Julian Feinauer wrote: > >> > Hi everybody, > >> > > >> > my name is Julian and as I’m new on this list, I just wanted to > >> shortly introduce myself. I’m a contributor to some Apache projects > (PLC4X, > >> IoTDB, Calcite) and I met some karaf folks at the ApacheCon in Las > Vegas (I > >> was the guy hanging around introducing JB and Serge). > >> > I have Karaf on my radar for quite some time but always considered > >> it to hard for us to adopt. > >> > > >> > But
