RE: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

The patched DLL is shipped with an external digital signature.  I guess we 
could ask that to be installed alongside it.  That would be a good tell-tale.  

The web site where the patch is downloadable from will have hashes for the 
archive containing the patched library and will also have an external signature 
for that.  These are on a secure AOO infrastructure site, the best place to 
retrieve hashes and signature files.  There is no reason not to have a hash of 
the library inside the downloadable archive for those who, for some reason, 
cannot check the signature but can verify the hash.

In the manual procedure, we will ask users to rename the existing 
shared-library before copying in the replacement.  This will provide a means to 
revert to the patched library if a regression results.

There is a difference in file-creation dates and in the size of the files as 
well.  The procedure for hotfixing with the patched library should provide that 
information to discourage attempting to patch a different release and also make 
it easier to tell the patch is there.

You're right that different builds by others who look to just extract the 
shared library will likely end up with a different binary of that library.  For 
a binary distribution from any origin that has the patch compiled-in, I would 
think something like the static string might be helpful.  If we do that in the 
AOO4121 tag, we'll have to redo the patched libraries we've already built.  I 
was hoping we could avoid that and stick with ones we have done some testing on 
already.

Is what we're planning enough?

 - Dennis
 
> -Original Message-
> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 15:14
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513
> 
> On 24 Jul, Don Lewis wrote:
> 
> > At a minimum, we should publish the hash values of buggy and fixed
> > versions of the library.  That might not help someone who builds and
> > installs from source since the build not be completely repeatable.
> > For instance the library might contain a timestamp.
> 
> Adding a static string "CVE-2016-1513 Fixed" to the source is another
> possibiliy.  On *nix, the user/administrator can run:
>   strings whatever.so | grep CVE
> and look for the above to verify that the fixed library has been
> installed.  Someone would have to figure out how to do the equivalent on
> Windows.
> 
> 
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Re: updated curl patch

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 14:51
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org
>> Subject: Re: updated curl patch
>> 
>> On 24 Jul, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:


>> > PS: The ext_libraries folder has not been touched since 2014-07-07.
>> > It is included in -src.
>> 
>> Yes, some of the bundled software is built over their rather than under
>> main.  I've never attempted to figure out the logic.
>> 
> [orcmid] 
> 
> I *think* it has to do with (1) IP compatibility (or lack thereof) and
> perhaps (2) whether we are maintaining a patched version that cannot 
> go upstream for some reason.

(1) I don't know, but I know that nss, which is category-b, is built
under main, and apr, which is an Apache project, is built under
ext_libraries.

(2) We've got patches in both places.


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Re: Buildbots update

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> On 22/07/2016 Don Lewis wrote:
>> On 22 Jul, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>>> I've progressed much further
> 
> Thanks Damjan for the (as usual) great progress.
> 
>>> Buildbots
>>> should immediately fail the build if ./bootstrap fails
>> Yes, there is no sense in continuing if bootstrap fails
> 
> Yes, sure.
> 
>>> 5 hours is pure waste. Alternatively we should find a more reliable
>>> ooo-extras hosting solution than SourceForge. We could also cache
>>> dependencies offline between builds, but I am guessing that has licensing
>>> issues?
> 
> No, dependencies we temporarily download on a build machine are not 
> affected by licensing issues.
> 
> Maybe an extra parameter --cache-dir=$DIR to bootstrap would work? This 
> way we could setup a dedicated cache directory on the buildbots (even if 
> we are doing a "clean build", there is really no point in re-downloading 
> a file if the checksum matches).

That's a good idea, though we should probably have another bot that
periodically checks for working downloads.  There's no need for each
buildbot to do it though, which ends up happend now multiple times per
day.


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RE: updated curl patch

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 14:51
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; dennis.hamil...@acm.org
> Subject: Re: updated curl patch
> 
> On 24 Jul, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
> >> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:24
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: updated curl patch
[ ... .
> >> I noticed
> >> that the curl 7.19.7 tarball is checked into svn under ext_sources.
> >> Should I delete that and check in the new source tarball?  What is
> >> the criteria for checking stuff in under ext_sources?
> > [orcmid]
> >
> > That is an interesting question.  I have the feeling that the
> > ext_sources folder is obsolete.
> >
> > ANALYSIS
> >
> > Looking at ext_sources on trunk, this folder is mainly populated by
> > files dated prior to 2012-12-23, none of which were later than the
> > first Apache OpenOffice non-incubating release, the AOO 3.4.1 refresh.
> >  The only subsequent additions consist of four files added *since*
> > release 4.1.2.
> >
> > I don't understand the relationship between these and Apache Extras.
> > And that these are binaries on the SVN trunk.
> 
> Yes, that seems to be suboptimal.
> 
> > Furthermore, the ext_sources folder does *not* appear in the source
> > release, apache-openoffice-4.1.2-r1709696-src.
> 
> True ... anyboody building from a release source tarball is totally
> reliant on bootstrap to download all of the extra sources.
> 
> > PS: The ext_libraries folder has not been touched since 2014-07-07.
> > It is included in -src.
> 
> Yes, some of the bundled software is built over their rather than under
> main.  I've never attempted to figure out the logic.
> 
[orcmid] 

I *think* it has to do with (1) IP compatibility (or lack thereof) and
perhaps (2) whether we are maintaining a patched version that cannot 
go upstream for some reason.

It appears to go back to the incubation of AOO when all of this sort of
thing had to be cleaned up.
[ ... ]



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Re: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Don Lewis wrote:

> At a minimum, we should publish the hash values of buggy and fixed
> versions of the library.  That might not help someone who builds and
> installs from source since the build not be completely repeatable.
> For instance the library might contain a timestamp.

Adding a static string "CVE-2016-1513 Fixed" to the source is another
possibiliy.  On *nix, the user/administrator can run:
strings whatever.so | grep CVE
and look for the above to verify that the fixed library has been
installed.  Someone would have to figure out how to do the equivalent on
Windows.


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Re: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> While the severity of the security bug we disclosed 
> http://www.openoffice.org/security/cves/CVE-2016-1513.html is not 
> particularly high (it is classified as "Medium" with no known exploits 
> and anti-virus software can detect malicious documents), we should 
> release an update incorporating the -already tested- patch we disclosed 
> in the announcement.
> 
> I assume we will want to keep the effort minimal.
> 
> To do so, an outline would be:
> 
> 1) We commit the patch to the AOO410 branch. This is the branch used for 
> all the 4.1.x series. 4.2.0 isn't out yet, so 4.1.x is still our 
> reference version.
> 
> 2) We do not make any other changes to the AOO410 branch. This is really 
> meant to be a minimal update. Even the version number in the source 
> package will remain 4.1.2.
> 
> 3) We tag the release as AOO4121 and build the corresponding source 
> package, which will have 4.1.2.1 in its name (I mean the filename, 
> nowhere else).
> 
> 4) We don't prepare full end-user release binaries but we do supply 
> repaired libraries for power users - remember the circumstances above. 
> The bugfix modifies one library file, and we have binaries ready for 
> several platforms already.
> 
> 5) We vote on the source and possibly binaries. We advertise the 
> availability of the new packages on our website, but we don't send out 
> update notifications and we don't put the files on SourceForge.
> 
> Does this look OK?

Not being able to tell at a glance whether a copy of AOO has been fixed
or not is bad.

A while back Samsung fixed a hard drive firmware bug that could cause
data loss, but didn't change the firmware version number. It was
impossible to discern whether a drive had the buggy or fixed firmware
with smartctl or by looking at boot messages.  I ended up putting
stickers on drives after I updated the firmware, but there was still no
way to survey all the drives to see if they were fixed once they were
installed in boxes.

At a minimum, we should publish the hash values of buggy and fixed
versions of the library.  That might not help someone who builds and
installs from source since the build not be completely repeatable.
For instance the library might contain a timestamp.



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RE: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

[BCC to PMC, AOO Security team where how to accomplish this has been under 
discussion]

+1 from me, all the way down the line.

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 14:38
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513
> 
> While the severity of the security bug we disclosed
> http://www.openoffice.org/security/cves/CVE-2016-1513.html is not
> particularly high (it is classified as "Medium" with no known exploits
> and anti-virus software can detect malicious documents), we should
> release an update incorporating the -already tested- patch we disclosed
> in the announcement.
> 
> I assume we will want to keep the effort minimal.
> 
> To do so, an outline would be:
> 
> 1) We commit the patch to the AOO410 branch. This is the branch used for
> all the 4.1.x series. 4.2.0 isn't out yet, so 4.1.x is still our
> reference version.
> 
> 2) We do not make any other changes to the AOO410 branch. This is really
> meant to be a minimal update. Even the version number in the source
> package will remain 4.1.2.
> 
> 3) We tag the release as AOO4121 and build the corresponding source
> package, which will have 4.1.2.1 in its name (I mean the filename,
> nowhere else).
> 
> 4) We don't prepare full end-user release binaries but we do supply
> repaired libraries for power users - remember the circumstances above.
> The bugfix modifies one library file, and we have binaries ready for
> several platforms already.
> 
> 5) We vote on the source and possibly binaries. We advertise the
> availability of the new packages on our website, but we don't send out
> update notifications and we don't put the files on SourceForge.
> 
> Does this look OK?
> 
> Once this is done, we will probably want to open another discussion and
> see how we can coordinate for a release that incorporates more fixes or
> features and is made available in full form, with all localized
> installers, to end users. But the above is mostly aimed in having an
> official way to ship the existing patch.
> 
> Regards,
>Andrea.
> 
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Re: updated curl patch

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:24
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: updated curl patch
>> 
>> I've updated my curl patch here:
>> 
>> 
>> I've build tested it on FreeBSD 10, 64-bit CentOS 7, 64-bit Ubuntu 12,
>> and Windows 7.  I've run tested it on CentOS and Windows by doing a
>> File->Open and specifying a ftp:// URL.  I did the same with the
>> FreeBSD port, which uses the same curl version via
>> --with-system-curl.
>> 
>> One of the Linux platforms, Ubuntu as I recall, had problems trying
>> to download the source because of certificate validation issues
>> (hopefully that is fixed with the java download changes).  I noticed
>> that the curl 7.19.7 tarball is checked into svn under ext_sources. 
>> Should I delete that and check in the new source tarball?  What is
>> the criteria for checking stuff in under ext_sources?
> [orcmid] 
> 
> That is an interesting question.  I have the feeling that the
> ext_sources folder is obsolete.
> 
> ANALYSIS
> 
> Looking at ext_sources on trunk, this folder is mainly populated by
> files dated prior to 2012-12-23, none of which were later than the
> first Apache OpenOffice non-incubating release, the AOO 3.4.1 refresh.
>  The only subsequent additions consist of four files added *since*
> release 4.1.2.
> 
> I don't understand the relationship between these and Apache Extras. 
> And that these are binaries on the SVN trunk.

Yes, that seems to be suboptimal.
 
> Furthermore, the ext_sources folder does *not* appear in the source
> release, apache-openoffice-4.1.2-r1709696-src.

True ... anyboody building from a release source tarball is totally
reliant on bootstrap to download all of the extra sources.

> PS: The ext_libraries folder has not been touched since 2014-07-07. 
> It is included in -src.

Yes, some of the bundled software is built over their rather than under
main.  I've never attempted to figure out the logic.

> PPS: Thank you for pointing out, in an earlier post, that you do all
> FreeBSD builds while disconnected from the Internet and don't rely on
> the bootstrap to download anything and that you have what may be a
> more efficient approach that perhaps all of us should use when doing
> release-candidate build-confirmation compiles.

Bootstrap doesn't have much, if anything, to do when building the
FreeBSD port.  All of the necessary external source tarballs have
already been stashed in ext_sources/, and both dmake and epm have
already been built and installed.  The sources come from a giant tarball
that I've previously built and hosted on the FreeBSD infrastructure.
There aren't that many because of the heavy use of --with-system-foo by
the FreeBSD port.

In the general case, the necessary set of sources depends on the flags
passed to configure, and bootstrap looks at the the knobs set by
configure to figure out what to download. If the set of sources was more
dynamic, then the FreeBSD port Makefile would have to duplicate some of
the logic that resides in configure and bootstrap since networking is
turned off before configure is run.


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Officially releasing a patch for CVE-2016-1513

[Andrea Pescetti]

While the severity of the security bug we disclosed 
http://www.openoffice.org/security/cves/CVE-2016-1513.html is not 
particularly high (it is classified as "Medium" with no known exploits 
and anti-virus software can detect malicious documents), we should 
release an update incorporating the -already tested- patch we disclosed 
in the announcement.


I assume we will want to keep the effort minimal.

To do so, an outline would be:

1) We commit the patch to the AOO410 branch. This is the branch used for 
all the 4.1.x series. 4.2.0 isn't out yet, so 4.1.x is still our 
reference version.


2) We do not make any other changes to the AOO410 branch. This is really 
meant to be a minimal update. Even the version number in the source 
package will remain 4.1.2.


3) We tag the release as AOO4121 and build the corresponding source 
package, which will have 4.1.2.1 in its name (I mean the filename, 
nowhere else).


4) We don't prepare full end-user release binaries but we do supply 
repaired libraries for power users - remember the circumstances above. 
The bugfix modifies one library file, and we have binaries ready for 
several platforms already.


5) We vote on the source and possibly binaries. We advertise the 
availability of the new packages on our website, but we don't send out 
update notifications and we don't put the files on SourceForge.


Does this look OK?

Once this is done, we will probably want to open another discussion and 
see how we can coordinate for a release that incorporates more fixes or 
features and is made available in full form, with all localized 
installers, to end users. But the above is mostly aimed in having an 
official way to ship the existing patch.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Editing Download page

[Marcus]

Am 07/24/2016 06:25 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:

Marcus,

A little correction here and there ...


-Original Message-
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
My technical additions need a bit more time but in the meantime here are
my text suggestions:

Box headline:
"Developers Needed"

Box text:
"Are you a software developer with C++ skills or have you deeper
knowledge about building software? Do you like to work in open source
projects and you are familar with the English language? Then come to us
and help Apache OpenOffice to grow."

[orcmid]

s/you are familiar/are you familiar/

or maybe better, "are you proficient in English?

s/Then come/Come/

s/to grow/expand/



Box mouse-over:
"The Apache OpenOffice project need software developers to grow its
base"

[orcmid]

s/need/needs/

Or how about,

  "The Apache OpenOffice project seeks developers to take part in expanding its 
activities."


OK, sounds better. I've also changed the other things.


and I would like to see more discussion too.


Then I'll keep the things in staging. When someone thinks it's ready, 
then just publish it in the CMS.



Not perfect but a start - for discussion and improvement.


For further ideas you just need to change the "orange" properties in 
"w.oo.o/dl/msg_prop_l10n_en.js". Or I can do it tomorrow


Marcus


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Re: Editing Download page

[JZA]

I would also suggest to revisit the intro programs for development which
were put on hold indefinetly and at the momento there is really no good way
to 'learn' the AOO sourcecode.
Most of the wiki Dev documentation might also need some review. Specially
key pages like conventions, and recent changes.
Are we still using cws?

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
wrote:

> On 24/07/2016 Marcus wrote:
>
>> now it's here:
>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/index.html
>>
>
> Looks good to me (text and layout). I'd simply replace the title with
> "Help wanted" for consistency with the ASF-wide site that Dennis mentioned
> (and also because we are already using the box for recruiting not only
> developers, so "Developers needed" is incomplete).
>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
9060 55AB FFD2 2F02 0E1A  3409 599C 14FC 9450 D3CF

Re: Editing Download page

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 24/07/2016 Marcus wrote:

now it's here:
http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/index.html


Looks good to me (text and layout). I'd simply replace the title with 
"Help wanted" for consistency with the ASF-wide site that Dennis 
mentioned (and also because we are already using the box for recruiting 
not only developers, so "Developers needed" is incomplete).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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RE: updated curl patch

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Don Lewis [mailto:truck...@apache.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 12:24
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: updated curl patch
> 
> I've updated my curl patch here:
> 
> 
> I've build tested it on FreeBSD 10, 64-bit CentOS 7, 64-bit Ubuntu 12,
> and Windows 7.  I've run tested it on CentOS and Windows by doing a
> File->Open and specifying a ftp:// URL.  I did the same with the FreeBSD
> port, which uses the same curl version via --with-system-curl.
> 
> One of the Linux platforms, Ubuntu as I recall, had problems trying to
> download the source because of certificate validation issues (hopefully
> that is fixed with the java download changes).  I noticed that the curl
> 7.19.7 tarball is checked into svn under ext_sources.  Should I delete
> that and check in the new source tarball?  What is the criteria for
> checking stuff in under ext_sources?
[orcmid] 

That is an interesting question.  I have the feeling that the ext_sources 
folder is obsolete.

ANALYSIS

Looking at ext_sources on trunk, this folder is mainly populated by files dated 
prior to 2012-12-23, none of which were later than the first Apache OpenOffice 
non-incubating release, the AOO 3.4.1 refresh.  The only subsequent additions 
consist of four files added *since* release 4.1.2.

I don't understand the relationship between these and Apache Extras.  And that 
these are binaries on the SVN trunk.

Furthermore, the ext_sources folder does *not* appear in the source release, 
apache-openoffice-4.1.2-r1709696-src.


PS: The ext_libraries folder has not been touched since 2014-07-07.  It is 
included in -src.

PPS: Thank you for pointing out, in an earlier post, that you do all FreeBSD 
builds while disconnected from the Internet and don't rely on the bootstrap to 
download anything and that you have what may be a more efficient approach that 
perhaps all of us should use when doing release-candidate build-confirmation 
compiles.


> 
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Editing Download page

[Marcus]

Am 07/24/2016 06:25 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:

Marcus,

A little correction here and there ...


-Original Message-
From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
My technical additions need a bit more time but in the meantime here are
my text suggestions:

Box headline:
"Developers Needed"

Box text:
"Are you a software developer with C++ skills or have you deeper
knowledge about building software? Do you like to work in open source
projects and you are familar with the English language? Then come to us
and help Apache OpenOffice to grow."

[orcmid]

s/you are familiar/are you familiar/

or maybe better, "are you proficient in English?

s/Then come/Come/

s/to grow/expand/



Box mouse-over:
"The Apache OpenOffice project need software developers to grow its
base"

[orcmid]

s/need/needs/

Or how about,

  "The Apache OpenOffice project seeks developers to take part in expanding its 
activities."


OK, sounds better. I'vr also changed the other things.


and I would like to see more discussion too.


Then I'll keep the things in staging. When someone thinks it's ready, 
then just publish it in the CMS.



Not perfect but a start - for discussion and improvement.


For further ideas you just need to change the "orange" properties in 
"w.oo.o/dl/msg_prop_l10n_en.js". Or I can do it tomorrow.


Marcus


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updated curl patch

[Don Lewis]

I've updated my curl patch here:


I've build tested it on FreeBSD 10, 64-bit CentOS 7, 64-bit Ubuntu 12,
and Windows 7.  I've run tested it on CentOS and Windows by doing a
File->Open and specifying a ftp:// URL.  I did the same with the FreeBSD
port, which uses the same curl version via --with-system-curl.

One of the Linux platforms, Ubuntu as I recall, had problems trying to
download the source because of certificate validation issues (hopefully
that is fixed with the java download changes).  I noticed that the curl
7.19.7 tarball is checked into svn under ext_sources.  Should I delete
that and check in the new source tarball?  What is the criteria for
checking stuff in under ext_sources?



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Re: Buildbots update

[Don Lewis]

On 24 Jul, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Don Lewis  wrote:
> 
>> On 22 Jul, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
>> > I've progressed much further, and openoffice-fbsd-nightly,
>> > openoffice-linux32-nightly, openoffice-linux64-nightly, and
>> > openoffice-linux64-rat are now building, while
>> openoffice-linux32-snapshot
>> > is only temporarily breaking due to SourceForge issues. I've also made
>> some
>> > interesting discoveries about the Windows buildbots.
>>
>> FreeBSD still needs LWP::Protocol::https.  It's only working because of
>> the non-https fallback to a specific SourceForge mirror.
>>
>>
> No, it's only working because of --with-system-

The FreeBSD buildbot uses more --with-system stuff that the other
buildbots, but not as much as the FreeBSD port.  It was still getting
LWP::Protocol::https failures, but they weren't fatal because of the
fallback to a specific http SourceForge mirror.  Most recently it was
only succeeding while the Linux buildbots were failing to download
openssl because thate version wasn't present on the SourceForge mirror
and the FreeBSD buildbot used --with-system-openssl.

BTW, the FreeBSD port doesn't rely on bootstrap to download anything.
Bootstrap is run during the build stage, and when building FreeBSD
packages, there is no network connectivity during the build stage.
Instead, everything is downloaded and stashed in ext_sources before
configure is run.

> Also LWP::Protocol::https is dead now, please see my upcoming email.

Ding, dong, the witch is dead ...

>> > That buildbot is currently running out of disk space, and it doesn't help
>> > that we "svn co" and then "svn export" a second copy. Originally the
>> > buildbot script used other tricks, like "svn switch", or keeping an SVN
>> > checkout across builds that was just updated and then exported from for
>> > each build, but some time ago I switched to a full "svn co" because it
>> was
>> > too unreliable (eg. files can get locked and need "svn cleanup"). With a
>> > full checkout there is no need to export, as we get a fresh copy each
>> time.
>> > I'll overhaul that buildbot script and try make it simpler and cleaner.
>>
>> Doing an update followed by an export of that would be less resource
>> intensive, though it adds 50% (since .svn isn't copied) to the space
>> consumed by the source.  The write-locked file problem should only occur
>> if the update is interrupted, and since there is so little activity in
>> the repo, the updates should be pretty fast have a low probability of
>> failing.  A full checkout would be much more likely to fail in the
>> middle.  You could always run "svn cleanup" before "svn update".
>>
>> A checked out source tree for 4.1.2 is about 725 MB.  A second exported
>> copy would bring the total up to about 1090 MB, which is still fairly
>> small compared to the overall build size.  If space is an issue and load
>> on the svn server is not, then doing a fresh export (vs a checkout) from
>> the server each time would be the best.
>>
>>
> Space was an issue because I was using the small C: drive instead of E:.
> 
> As the buildbots run automatically and we usually don't initiate builds and
> wait for results, little is lost by doing SVN update the slowest way, and
> much is gained through the increased reliability and simplicity.

Doing svn export direct from the repo would be just as reliable as svn
co.  It would be quicker and more spece efficient because it wouldn't
create a second copy of the source under .svn that we don't use since we
aren't doing incremental updates and we are just going to delete at the
start of the next build.

Thanks for spending the time on this!  It'll be awesome having working
buildbots again.

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RE: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Still ...
> [BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for
> now, at least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]

Of course, I could simply be over-thinking this whole thing and it would be 
more valuable to do something.

I still would like any feedback that there is before investing in something 
like this.

The need for development of hotfix procedures for end-users led me to elevate 
this lingering topic of mine for discussion.  I regret not anticipating the 
need for better information for situations like that and user trouble-shooting 
as well.

 - Dennis

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2016 10:34
> To: d...@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting,
> Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?
> 
> 
> I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics
> around installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level,
> .
> 
> The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive,
> rather than documentation descriptive,
> at .  This page has a
> mix of old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and
> works-in-progress.
> 
> I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation,
> start up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating
> documents, tips for configuring for careful and systematic operation as
> well as trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and
> limitations to be known about.  I am also interested in that information
> being well-illustrated.  My priority, by the way, is Windows first,
> since that represents over 85% of our user community measured by
> download statistics.
> 
> These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a
> variety of places where better information could be provided.
> 
> It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting
> documentation address this.
> 
>  1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation,
> Configuration, Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal.  It would need
> to deal with separation of the different platforms (and their versions)
> in some clean way so that users on a particular platform can find what
> is pertinent to them and requires knowing their computer operating-
> system when it is not the same for all platforms.  It would also need to
> deal with differences in AOO version functionality/caveats in some
> manner.
> 
>  2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that
> seems to be important for providing the kind of documentation support I
> am speaking of, employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked
> Questions to tie into such material.
> 
>  3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve
> users well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users
> not losing their place based on what they are looking into).
> 
> Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation
> Project to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant
> documentation at the Documentation topic.  Older material about
> unsupported software could move to a separate topic page
> (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be accessible from the
> top-level Documentation topic.
> 
> Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be
> left in a broken, disconnected state?  I think the material could be
> migrated in a way that keeps everything connected even as material is
> morphed into a new structure.
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
> PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-
> version changes or specific-version items are identified.
> 
> PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is
> under PDL and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in
> separation of Apache Licensed material and anything that must be
> retained under PDL.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> > To: d...@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> >
> > I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> > releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> > reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are
> designated
> > as stable/"published".
> >
> > I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> > that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
> >
> > I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected
> in
> > the documentation.  Is not the older form to be maintained so it can
> be
> > found by someone who is looking at such a version?  Also, w

Re: Buildbots update

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 22/07/2016 Don Lewis wrote:

On 22 Jul, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:

I've progressed much further


Thanks Damjan for the (as usual) great progress.


Buildbots
should immediately fail the build if ./bootstrap fails

Yes, there is no sense in continuing if bootstrap fails


Yes, sure.


5 hours is pure waste. Alternatively we should find a more reliable
ooo-extras hosting solution than SourceForge. We could also cache
dependencies offline between builds, but I am guessing that has licensing
issues?


No, dependencies we temporarily download on a build machine are not 
affected by licensing issues.


Maybe an extra parameter --cache-dir=$DIR to bootstrap would work? This 
way we could setup a dedicated cache directory on the buildbots (even if 
we are doing a "clean build", there is really no point in re-downloading 
a file if the checksum matches).



showed 4 nmake processes, 2 from March 30, 2 from April 4, part of
orphaned trees also containing perl, sh, and dmake.


At least we could have the VM restarted to make sure we don't carry 
stale processes around for months. Infra can for sure do it with minimal 
effort. And access to the dedicated IRC channel for giving instructions 
to buildbots might be useful too (I guess you know what I am talking 
about; if not, just ask and I can look it up).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: ./bootstrap: LWP::Protocol::https replaced by java.net.URLConnection

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 7/24/2016 10:24 AM, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
...

So how do we download files now?

Java. Java supports https:// out of the box, is very portable between
operating systems and CPUs, uses its own root CA certificates, is already
used on all the buildbots, and is documented as being a mandatory build
dependency (even though it doesn't seem that way in ./configure). A simple
class main/solenv/javadownloader/AOOJavaDownloader.java gets compiled into
main/solenv//class/AOOJavaDownloader.class by the ./bootstrap
script, and then called from Perl's main/solenv/bin/
download_external_dependencies.pl and
main/solenv/bin/modules/ExtensionsLst.pm using system(), in place of
LWP::UserAgent. Internally, it uses java.net.URLConnection for http/https
support, deals with HTTP redirection, also verifying MD5 and SHA1 hashes
like the Perl DownloadFile() function it replaces.

The way it's been set up is a bit of a hack, but it's working phenomenally
well on both FreeBSD and Windows, and with it the Windows aoo-win7 buildbot
has successfully bootstrapped for the first time in memorable history, and
with VCVARS32.BAT eliminated it looks like it may even finish building
successfully!


This sounds very promising. I hope it works.

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[DISCUSS] Places for Installation, Startup, Troubleshooting, Caveats, Tips, Workarounds, and maybe FAQ?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

[BCC to dev and users lists - please keep the conversation on doc@ for now, at 
least by BCC, since it pertains to use of the wiki(s).]

I notice that the User Guide draft does not provide connection to topics around 
installation, startup, and so on, at least not at the top level, 
.

The Apache OpenOffice Documentation Project page is project descriptive, rather 
than documentation descriptive, 
at .  This page has a mix of 
old and somewhat recent material and a variety of formats and 
works-in-progress.  

I am particularly interested, myself, in information about installation, start 
up, ways of starting work with documents, saving and locating documents, tips 
for configuring for careful and systematic operation as well as 
trouble-shooting, working-around common problems, and limitations to be known 
about.  I am also interested in that information being well-illustrated.  My 
priority, by the way, is Windows first, since that represents over 85% of our 
user community measured by download statistics.

These don't seem to be part of the User Guide project but there are a variety 
of places where better information could be provided.

It seems to me that there are three ways to have the supporting documentation 
address this.

 1. Add a section to the user guide for covering Installation, Configuration, 
Operation, Troubleshooting, and Removal.  It would need to deal with separation 
of the different platforms (and their versions) in some clean way so that users 
on a particular platform can find what is pertinent to them and requires 
knowing their computer operating-system when it is not the same for all 
platforms.  It would also need to deal with differences in AOO version 
functionality/caveats in some manner.

 2. Use the current structure and update and add the information that seems to 
be important for providing the kind of documentation support I am speaking of, 
employing/expanding HOWTOs and the Frequently Asked Questions to tie into such 
material.

 3. Maybe some combination, although cross-referencing might not serve users 
well unless it is smooth and frictionless (especially around users not losing 
their place based on what they are looking into).

Down the road, I would think it would be good to move The Documentation Project 
to a DocumentationProject wiki topic, and have current relevant documentation 
at the Documentation topic.  Older material about unsupported software could 
move to a separate topic page (PreviousDocumentation ?) and cleaned up, and be 
accessible from the top-level Documentation topic.

Is there some coordination required about this, so that things don't be left in 
a broken, disconnected state?  I think the material could be migrated in a way 
that keeps everything connected even as material is morphed into a new 
structure.

 - Dennis

PS: I notice there were no responses to this question about how inter-version 
changes or specific-version items are identified.

PPS: Something else that needs to be done is cleanup around what is under PDL 
and what is not. I would thing that needs to be attended to in separation of 
Apache Licensed material and anything that must be retained under PDL.

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2016 18:17
> To: d...@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [QUESTIONS] Dealing with AOO Inter-Version Changes
> 
> I notice that there is checking of documentation against current
> releases of Apache OpenOffice, although that does not seem to be
> reflected in the texts themselves, once User Guide pages are designated
> as stable/"published".
> 
> I know there were a couple of behavioral changes in AOO 4.1.2 although
> that might not show at the current level of documentation detail.
> 
> I wonder how changes to AOO that are user-perceived will be reflected in
> the documentation.  Is not the older form to be maintained so it can be
> found by someone who is looking at such a version?  Also, would we want
> to start marking the first version for which a page or chunk of content
> is current?
> 
> Perhaps that is covered somewhere in the documentation guidance.  I
> would be grateful if someone could point me to where this sort of
> change-accounting and feature-progression has been decided.
> 
>  - Dennis
> 
> PS: Although these questions struck me about the User Guide, if you look
> at the top-level of the MediaWiki documentation section, there are many
> items that are specific to older versions that are (or may be) obsolete
> with respect to newer versions of OpenOffice.
> 
> 
> 
>  -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> orc...@apache.org
> dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
> https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> 
> 
> 
> --

./bootstrap: LWP::Protocol::https replaced by java.net.URLConnection

[Damjan Jovanovic]

Hi

Both we and Infra have been battling with the buildbots for far too long,
and the inability to do https:// downloads consistently due to missing
LWP::Protocol::https has been a major thorn in our side.

Perl in AOO is not going well. CPAN modules don't install easily: in both
CentOS 5 and (Infra tells me) in Cygwin some tests fail, preventing
installation. If in 5 months INFRA-11296 has not been closed, and we're
still having mystery problems on the buildbots where Perl modules are
installed but can't be found, and this is even holding up further
development, such as being able to test whether removing VCVARS32.BAT from
the Windows build script fixes the apr build failure and file lock, then I
believe it's past time to tell Perl goodbye!

So as of r1753943, Perl's LWP::UserAgent no longer downloads files. I was
thinking of using a CLI tool instead, something like wget, but that's
another dependency we'd have to document, that may not be available on all
platforms (eg. Mac, OS/2), and that is broken on CentOS 5 for https://
which is what we need it for the most.

So how do we download files now?

Java. Java supports https:// out of the box, is very portable between
operating systems and CPUs, uses its own root CA certificates, is already
used on all the buildbots, and is documented as being a mandatory build
dependency (even though it doesn't seem that way in ./configure). A simple
class main/solenv/javadownloader/AOOJavaDownloader.java gets compiled into
main/solenv//class/AOOJavaDownloader.class by the ./bootstrap
script, and then called from Perl's main/solenv/bin/
download_external_dependencies.pl and
main/solenv/bin/modules/ExtensionsLst.pm using system(), in place of
LWP::UserAgent. Internally, it uses java.net.URLConnection for http/https
support, deals with HTTP redirection, also verifying MD5 and SHA1 hashes
like the Perl DownloadFile() function it replaces.

The way it's been set up is a bit of a hack, but it's working phenomenally
well on both FreeBSD and Windows, and with it the Windows aoo-win7 buildbot
has successfully bootstrapped for the first time in memorable history, and
with VCVARS32.BAT eliminated it looks like it may even finish building
successfully!

Damjan

Re: Buildbots update

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Don Lewis  wrote:

> On 22 Jul, Damjan Jovanovic wrote:
> > I've progressed much further, and openoffice-fbsd-nightly,
> > openoffice-linux32-nightly, openoffice-linux64-nightly, and
> > openoffice-linux64-rat are now building, while
> openoffice-linux32-snapshot
> > is only temporarily breaking due to SourceForge issues. I've also made
> some
> > interesting discoveries about the Windows buildbots.
>
> FreeBSD still needs LWP::Protocol::https.  It's only working because of
> the non-https fallback to a specific SourceForge mirror.
>
>
No, it's only working because of --with-system-

Also LWP::Protocol::https is dead now, please see my upcoming email.


> > I had to revert r1736692 (in r1753709), setting main/extensions.lst back
> to
> > generic https:// SourceForge URLs, as the mirror-specific http:// URLs
> are
> > now broken, which was causing all buildbots that use
> > --enable-bundled-dictionaries to fail. Enough buildbots support https now
> > to make this a net benefit.
>
> The iweb mirror is out of service, but switching the main SourceForge
> URL to pilotfiber (in r1752780) fixed that.
>
> > Also had to upload openssl-0.9.8zg to ooo-extras for the
> > openoffice-linux32-snapshot, but the most recent build failed because it
> > couldn't download some dictionaries/languages from SourceForge, which I
> am
> > generally finding to be too flaky.
> >
> > I think we should either run ./bootstrap multiple times on the buildbots,
> > or list SourceForge URLs several times in external_deps.lst and
> > extensions.lst, to compensate for SourceForge's unreliability. Buildbots
> > should immediately fail the build if ./bootstrap fails, as there is no
> > hope: ./bootstrap only downloads dependencies needed for the build, and
> if
> > any are missing, the build will definitely fail, and burning CPU for up
> to
> > 5 hours is pure waste. Alternatively we should find a more reliable
> > ooo-extras hosting solution than SourceForge. We could also cache
> > dependencies offline between builds, but I am guessing that has licensing
> > issues?
>
> Yes, there is no sense in continuing if bootstrap fails.
>
> > That leaves the Windows bots.
> > aoo-w7snap is still missing LWP::Protocol::https.
> > aoo-win7 was failing to delete the old build files (rm: cannot remove
> > `build/ext_libraries/apr/wntmsci12.pro/misc/build/apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win
> ':
> > Device or resource busy).
> > Something seems to be keeping that file open even after the previous
> builds
> > are over.
> > According to ext_libraries/apr/makefile.mk, the BUILD_ACTION on Windows
> is:
> > INCLUDE="$(INCLUDE);./include"  nmake -f Makefile.win buildall
> > so I suspected nmake hangs.
> >
> > I patched the build script to run "ps -W" (results at
> > https://ci.apache.org/builders/aoo-win7/builds/348/steps/ps/logs/stdio)
> > which showed 4 nmake processes, 2 from March 30, 2 from April 4, part of
> > orphaned trees also containing perl, sh, and dmake.
> > Killing nmake (through hacks to the buildbot script, as I still don't
> have
> > remote access) had no effect - deleting apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win was still
> > giving the same error.
> > Even killing dmake, sh and perl (which had to be done in creative ways on
> > that dodgy OS - some through taskkill, some through Cygwin's kill) still
> > had no effect.
> > After all Cygwin processes were dead, that error was still coming up!
> >
> > So I started looking at non-Cygwin processes. DEVENV.EXE and DEVENV.COM
> had
> > the same March 30 / April 4 start times as the hung process trees, and
> > killing them *finally* allowed apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win to be deleted.
> >
> > I'll experiment a lot more over the weekend, but right now I think the
> > problem could be that the buildbot runs VSVARS.BAT to set up the Visual
> > Studio environment, which (presumably) contains the evil DEVENV that
> break
> > the build and locks files while hung. On my own Windows VM I don't run
> > VSVARS.BAT, and I can't reproduce the problem. Do the rest of you that
> > build on Windows use it?
>
> Since VSVARS.BAT was not listed in the step by step guide, I haven't
> been running it.  It sounds a lot like it just sets some environment
> variables to find where the various bits of VS are installed, so I would
> think it would be generally harmless.  I've been running builds from the
> desktop.  VSVARS.BAT might be needed when running headless ...
>
> I did some searches and saw some mention that DEVENV.* hangs might be
> caused by anti-virus software.  Is that running on the windows buildbot?
>
>
I caught AOO building ext_libraries/apr on my own setup (where the buildbot
usually fails and locks files), and quickly ran "ps -W" and "tasklist".
DEVENV wasn't running.

According to Infra, that buildbot is running "the basic Windows Defender
stuff".


> > That buildbot is currently running out of disk space, and it doesn't help
> > that we "svn co" and then "svn export" a second copy. Originally the
> > buildbot 

RE: Editing Download page

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Marcus,

A little correction here and there ...

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de]
> My technical additions need a bit more time but in the meantime here are
> my text suggestions:
> 
> Box headline:
> "Developers Needed"
> 
> Box text:
> "Are you a software developer with C++ skills or have you deeper
> knowledge about building software? Do you like to work in open source
> projects and you are familar with the English language? Then come to us
> and help Apache OpenOffice to grow."
[orcmid] 

s/you are familiar/are you familiar/

or maybe better, "are you proficient in English?

s/Then come/Come/

s/to grow/expand/

> 
> Box mouse-over:
> "The Apache OpenOffice project need software developers to grow its
> base"
[orcmid] 

s/need/needs/

Or how about,

 "The Apache OpenOffice project seeks developers to take part in expanding its 
activities."

and I would like to see more discussion too.


> 
> Not perfect but a start - for discussion and improvement.
> 
> Marcus
> 
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Re: Buildbots update

[Kay Schenk]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:09 AM, Damjan Jovanovic 
wrote:

> I've progressed much further, and openoffice-fbsd-nightly,
> openoffice-linux32-nightly, openoffice-linux64-nightly, and
> openoffice-linux64-rat are now building, while openoffice-linux32-snapshot
> is only temporarily breaking due to SourceForge issues. I've also made some
> interesting discoveries about the Windows buildbots.
>

​Lookin' pretty good so far! A BIG thank you again for all your work on
this!
Dealing with the buildbot configurations is quite a challenge!
​


>
> I had to revert r1736692 (in r1753709), setting main/extensions.lst back to
> generic https:// SourceForge URLs, as the mirror-specific http:// URLs are
> now broken, which was causing all buildbots that use
> --enable-bundled-dictionaries to fail. Enough buildbots support https now
> to make this a net benefit.
>
> Also had to upload openssl-0.9.8zg to ooo-extras for the
> openoffice-linux32-snapshot, but the most recent build failed because it
> couldn't download some dictionaries/languages from SourceForge, which I am
> generally finding to be too flaky.
>
> I think we should either run ./bootstrap multiple times on the buildbots,
> or list SourceForge URLs several times in external_deps.lst and
> extensions.lst, to compensate for SourceForge's unreliability. Buildbots
> should immediately fail the build if ./bootstrap fails, as there is no
> hope: ./bootstrap only downloads dependencies needed for the build, and if
> any are missing, the build will definitely fail, and burning CPU for up to
> 5 hours is pure waste. Alternatively we should find a more reliable
> ooo-extras hosting solution than SourceForge. We could also cache
> dependencies offline between builds, but I am guessing that has licensing
> issues?
>
> That leaves the Windows bots.
> aoo-w7snap is still missing LWP::Protocol::https.
> aoo-win7 was failing to delete the old build files (rm: cannot remove
> `build/ext_libraries/apr/wntmsci12.pro/misc/build/apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win':
> Device or resource busy).
> Something seems to be keeping that file open even after the previous builds
> are over.
> According to ext_libraries/apr/makefile.mk, the BUILD_ACTION on Windows
> is:
> INCLUDE="$(INCLUDE);./include"  nmake -f Makefile.win buildall
> so I suspected nmake hangs.
>
> I patched the build script to run "ps -W" (results at
> https://ci.apache.org/builders/aoo-win7/builds/348/steps/ps/logs/stdio)
> which showed 4 nmake processes, 2 from March 30, 2 from April 4, part of
> orphaned trees also containing perl, sh, and dmake.
> Killing nmake (through hacks to the buildbot script, as I still don't have
> remote access) had no effect - deleting apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win was still
> giving the same error.
> Even killing dmake, sh and perl (which had to be done in creative ways on
> that dodgy OS - some through taskkill, some through Cygwin's kill) still
> had no effect.
> After all Cygwin processes were dead, that error was still coming up!
>
> So I started looking at non-Cygwin processes. DEVENV.EXE and DEVENV.COM
> had
> the same March 30 / April 4 start times as the hung process trees, and
> killing them *finally* allowed apr-1.4.5/Makefile.win to be deleted.
>
> I'll experiment a lot more over the weekend, but right now I think the
> problem could be that the buildbot runs VSVARS.BAT to set up the Visual
> Studio environment, which (presumably) contains the evil DEVENV that break
> the build and locks files while hung. On my own Windows VM I don't run
> VSVARS.BAT, and I can't reproduce the problem. Do the rest of you that
> build on Windows use it?
>
> That buildbot is currently running out of disk space, and it doesn't help
> that we "svn co" and then "svn export" a second copy. Originally the
> buildbot script used other tricks, like "svn switch", or keeping an SVN
> checkout across builds that was just updated and then exported from for
> each build, but some time ago I switched to a full "svn co" because it was
> too unreliable (eg. files can get locked and need "svn cleanup"). With a
> full checkout there is no need to export, as we get a fresh copy each time.
> I'll overhaul that buildbot script and try make it simpler and cleaner.
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 8:17 PM, Damjan Jovanovic 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I contacted Infra on HipChat and asked them to fix the buildbots I could
> > find with the Perl LWP::Protocol::https problem (aoo-w7snap,
> > openoffice-fbsd-nightly, and openoffice-linux32-nightly) or give me
> access
> > to do it myself, and @pono fixed at least the openoffice-linux32-nightly
> > bot.
> >
> > The other buildbots are either failing earlier or failing for other
> > reasons. For example openoffice-linux64-nightly was failing to download
> > openssl ("500 Can't connect to www.openssl.org:443"), but I've uploaded
> > it to ooo-extras and it's gotten further in the build I am forcing now.
> >
> > Damjan
> >
> >
>



-- 
--

Re: Clean up on main page for www.openoffice.org

[Kay Schenk]

On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 7:40 AM, Marcus  wrote:

> Am 07/23/2016 12:59 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>
>>
>>
>> On 07/22/2016 03:52 PM, Marcus wrote:
>>
>>> Am 07/23/2016 12:47 AM, schrieb kaysch...@apache.org:
>>>
 Is there any problem with removing VERY old entries from:
 http://www.openoffice.org/

 We still have references to events in 2014, 2013 that I feel should be
 removed now.

 Also, in the past, we've done a good job of advertising for ApacheCon.
 There is an upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain in November. It
 would be great if we could include a link to the information on that --
 http://www.apachecon.com/.

 Thoughts? Volunteers? for any of these suggestions?

>>>
>>> I need to do changes on that page anyway. Do you have some text +
>>> graphic + link for me? Then will enable the event box.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>> Here's some text --
>>
>> @TheASF is 300 projects strong and growing. Come learn about all of
>> them at @ApacheCon in Seville - http://apachecon.com/
>>
>
> for the moment it's here [1]. But will go online, too, when the download
> webpage is updated.
>
> You'll have to get creative with a box graphic for now...maybe something
>> incorporating the new feather logo(?)
>>
>> No "official" graphic yet. I'll ask about this.
>>
>
> Got one. It's on "apachecon.com".
>
> [1] http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/index.html
>
>
> Marcus
>

​These changes look good to me! I would say they're ready for production.
There may be a alternate actual logo coming soon for ApacheCon EU in
Seville, but what you've done is great for now.
​



-- 

Kay Schenk@Apache OpenOffice

“Things work out best for those who make the best of how things work out.”

-- John Wooden

RE: Is it time to shut down this effort?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 18:24
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Is it time to shut down this effort?
> 
> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> > [BCC dev@ (really, this time)]
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net]
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 10:28
> >> To: d...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: Is it time to shut down this effort?
> >>
> >> Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> >>> [BCC dev@]
> >>>
> >>> Please be specific about what you mean by "this effort."
> >>>
> >>> The current documentation approach is to develop materials on the
> >> MediaWiki.  This wiki is typical in that it operates like an open-
> source
> >> project with commit then review (although there is a nice "Discuss"
> >> feature).
> >>>
> >>> If you mean the particular approach to reviewing and approving pages
> >> and having a kind of editor-in-chief, please say so.
> >>>
> >>>  - Dennis
> >>>
>  -Original Message-
>  From: Keith N. McKenna [mailto:keith.mcke...@comcast.net]
>  Sent: Friday, July 22, 2016 20:36
>  To: d...@openoffice.apache.org
>  Subject: Is it time to shut down this effort?
> 
>  My answer to the question posed in the tittle of this e-mail
>  unfortunately is yes. We have been moving by fits and starts for
> >> almost
>  4 years and have very little to show for it. I would like to hear
> the
>  opinions of others though.
> 
>  Keith
> 
> >> Dennis;
> >>
> >> This mailing list came into existence to coordinate the development
> of
> >> documentation for Version 4 under the Apache License. There never was
> >> and was never intended to be an editor-in-chief. For a lot of reasons
> >> this particular effort has produced a very limited amount of usable
> >> documentation.
> >>
> >> My personal feeling is that it should be recognized that it is not
> doing
> >> what it was intended to and either retired or reconstituted in a
> >> different form.
> >>
> >> I think that my personal position is pretty obvious from my original
> >> message and I wanted to solicit comment from other participants.
> > [orcmid]
> >
> > I am still unclear on what it means to "shut down this effort."
> >
> > Close the doc@ list?
> >
> > What action do you have in mind that would result in a shut down?
> >
> > Also, perhaps a broader request for assistance in documentation is
> called for.  This might go with the adjustments just made to the
> download page.  And there are lists (and the Community Forum) where
> power users might be encouraged to contribute to documentation on the
> wiki.
> >
> > The nice thing about the documentation is that there is always room
> for additions and improvements. Whatever there is at the moment is what
> there is.  Positive effort is not wasted.
> >
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Keith
> Dennis;
> I specifically did not bring this to the dev list because I wanted to
> illicit responses from the members of the documentation list as to their
> thoughts before I came to the dev list with a concrete proposal. Since
> you insist on bringing it here I will bow to your insistence and express
> my thoughts her.
[orcmid] 

Keith, I think there is a misunderstanding about the purpose of the dev@ list.  
It is the place to work something out in the community that involves all of the 
stakeholders.

The reason for my BCC (and not CC: cross-posting) was so the conversation could 
remain on doc@ but dev@ could participate, appreciating that there are 
participants on doc@ that are not on dev@. 
 
So I failed at that, since the conversation has moved completely to dev@.  It's 
a weekend, so we perhaps should not make too much about the fact of complete 
silence on doc@ so far [;<). As you've seen already, there is discussion energy 
on dev@.  That there is a diversity of opinion and there are differences is not 
a bad thing.  And remember, "don't feed the trolls."

It may well be that the doc@ list is not needed.  Perhaps the way for writers 
to communicate is in the wiki structure itself.  We have the community wiki and 
we have the MediaWiki as avenues for that although I am uncertain how 
comfortable technical writers are with a wiki as a tumultuous open-source 
writing experience with distributed participants. 

 - Dennis


> 
> It is very simple. The documentation list serves no purpose and should
> be closed down. We have tried numerous times to generate more interest
> in gaining volunteers to help with documentation to no avail. Your board
> reports have succinctly stated that the "documentation effort" is
> stalled. Trying to get more people is doomed to failure unless we can
> attract experienced tech writers that are willing to take the time to
> mentor new volunteers and to overhaul the wiki editing policy and the
> style guide to reflect current conditions and practices in the
> discipline. This has 

RE: Editing Download page

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2016 19:18
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Editing Download page
> 
> Marcus:
> 
> Please add "Experienced lead technical writers" to the requested skills.
> See the "Is it time to shut down this effort?" thread.
[orcmid] 

I don't think that will hurt.  I think it misses the point.

What we need most of all are users of the product who write.  Drawing on 
experience in technical writing of user-facing materials is a plus.

Technical writers need content or sources to work with.  They also need a sense 
of what is relevant to whom where.

For Apache OpenOffice, I think that takes some devotion and interest in the 
product.  Resume/experience building is all right but not enough by itself.  
And I think we have been seeing that in some cases.

I am not certain what we can expect of a lead technical writer in our 
situation.  It might be to tease out organization of the wiki content and 
addressing different important cases (getting started, user guides, reference 
manuals, tutorial materials, examples, etc.)  We do need some coherence on what 
it is we are writing, and for whom.

 - Dennis


> 
> On 7/22/2016 1:14 PM, Marcus wrote:
> > Am 07/22/2016 08:35 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> >> On 7/22/2016 11:05 AM, Marcus wrote:
> >>> Am 07/22/2016 07:45 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>  I am trying to edit www.openoffice.org/download/ to add a box for
>  recruiting developers. It seems to be a rather complicated page,
> with
>  internationalization.
> >>>
> >>> yes, to give the L10n groups the possibility to translate their
> >>> webpages. But only the strings. Everything else should be the same
> look
> >>> & feel. Therefore the heavy use of scripting.
> >>
> >> The new box should probably follow conventions, but we really need
> >> written English competence for AOO developers, because this mailing
> list
> >> and a lot of the web pages are in English.
> >
> > this is not mentioned in any way on the "get-involved.html" webpage.
> > Should we add this there also?
> >
> > Of course no native speaker level is need. But somehow a level that
> > makes it not too difficult to communicate (mails, Bugzilla, source
> code
> > comments, etc.).
> >
>  If anyone is familiar with how to edit it, and has time to help me,
>  please reply.
> >>>
> >>> Maybe you have overlooked my previous answer on your "Attracting new
> >>> developers" thread. ;-) I'll look on the weekend for the necessary
> >>> updates.
> >>
> >> I didn't interpret it as a commitment to do the changes, and I am in
> a
> >> Just Do It mood this week. If you can do the changes, great.
> >>
> >> The images etc. for an orange box are already there, are not
> currently
> >> being used, and I think orange would be an appropriate color. I would
> >> like to see it go fairly high up on the page, perhaps immediately
> above
> >> the "share" box.
> >
> > OK, I'll take this into account. Unfortunately, the orange icon is the
> > one for a download and not the share icon.
> >
> >> The key skills we need most urgently right now seem to be application
> >> build tools and C++ programming. Anything else?
> >
> > My technical additions need a bit more time but in the meantime here
> are
> > my text suggestions:
> >
> > Box headline:
> > "Developers Needed"
> >
> > Box text:
> > "Are you a software developer with C++ skills or have you deeper
> > knowledge about building software? Do you like to work in open source
> > projects and you are familar with the English language? Then come to
> us
> > and help Apache OpenOffice to grow."
> >
> > Box mouse-over:
> > "The Apache OpenOffice project need software developers to grow its
> base"
> >
> > Not perfect but a start - for discussion and improvement.
> >
> > Marcus
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> 
> -
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RE: [DISCUSS] HELP WANTED: Putting Help Wanted on OpenOffice.org

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Recent discussions about help-wanted for Apache OpenOffice bring to mind that 
we have not taken advantage of this.

It is useful in that it provides a single item (could be on download page and 
other places) that expands into as mucy coverage as we are willing write items 
for.

Please take a look.  See what could be done with respect to Documentation and 
Guides, for example, as well as other activities that we rely on volunteers for.

 - Dennis

PS: A plus to using this system is that the help-wanted listings are visible 
beyond the AOO pages where we put widgets that filter for AOO help-wanted 
items.  So someone looking into documentation work on any project would find 
our needs.


> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 10:32
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] HELP WANTED: Putting Help Wanted on OpenOffice.org
> 
> 
> 
> There is a blossoming Help Wanted arrangement that would be very useful
> for us.
> 
> I propose that we set this up.  Also, there are places on Wikis and
> other places where Help Wanted for the project using specific tags could
> be provided.
> 
> See some of the tags that are already used and are categorized on the
> main Help Wanted page:
> .
> 
> The place to start might be with addition of the widget for
> project="openoffice" on
>   if not [also] on the
> home page.
> 
> The Help Wanted system is a work in progress.  But it is stable enough
> to start capturing requests.
> 
> It may be a simpler way to obtain community support and further support
> in non-developer areas.
> 
> There are the following types of tasks built-in so far:
> 
>Programming and Development
>Web Design
>Documentation and Guides
>Marketing and Publicity
>Community Outreach
>Translation
> 
> There are already the following skill requirements/difficulties:
> 
>Beginner
>Journeyman
>Intermediate
>Advanced
>Expert
> 
> Along with a short description of tasks, there can be links to
> additional details on the particular item and there can be a link to a
> contributor's guide that is applicable for the effort.
> 
> Finally, these tasks can be identified as collaborative and to be done
> among a group of people, not as solo activities.
> 
> I think there are many opportunities to use this as a nice on-ramp for
> areas we have available for folks to work.
> 
> 
> 
>  -- Dennis E. Hamilton
> orc...@apache.org
> dennis.hamil...@acm.org+1-206-779-9430
> https://keybase.io/orcmid  PGP F96E 89FF D456 628A
> X.509 certs used and requested for signed e-mail
> 
> 
> 
> -
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org


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Re: Editing Download page

[Marcus]

Am 07/23/2016 12:49 AM, schrieb Marcus:

Am 07/22/2016 10:14 PM, schrieb Marcus:

Am 07/22/2016 08:35 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

[...]

I didn't interpret it as a commitment to do the changes, and I am in a
Just Do It mood this week. If you can do the changes, great.


OK, I don't want to slow you down. ;-)

Here is a first test version in the test area:

http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/test/index.html


now it's here:

http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/index.html

The only change is Patricia's hint to add the technial writer. When 
nothing else is proposed I'll publish this today evening.


Marcus


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Re: Clean up on main page for www.openoffice.org

[Marcus]

Am 07/23/2016 12:59 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:



On 07/22/2016 03:52 PM, Marcus wrote:

Am 07/23/2016 12:47 AM, schrieb kaysch...@apache.org:

Is there any problem with removing VERY old entries from:
http://www.openoffice.org/

We still have references to events in 2014, 2013 that I feel should be
removed now.

Also, in the past, we've done a good job of advertising for ApacheCon.
There is an upcoming ApacheCon EU in Seville, Spain in November. It
would be great if we could include a link to the information on that --
http://www.apachecon.com/.

Thoughts? Volunteers? for any of these suggestions?


I need to do changes on that page anyway. Do you have some text +
graphic + link for me? Then will enable the event box.

Marcus


Here's some text --

@TheASF is 300 projects strong and growing. Come learn about all of
them at @ApacheCon in Seville - http://apachecon.com/


for the moment it's here [1]. But will go online, too, when the download 
webpage is updated.



You'll have to get creative with a box graphic for now...maybe something
incorporating the new feather logo(?)

No "official" graphic yet. I'll ask about this.


Got one. It's on "apachecon.com".

[1] http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/index.html

Marcus

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