Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Keith N. McKenna]

Simos Xenitellis wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>> Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
>> be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
>> answer.
>>
>> What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various
>> places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
>> "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to have done.
>> I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
>> person...
>>
>> Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) directed towards
>> AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply redirected
>> venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
>> somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, was maintained
>> by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
>> division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very little rational
>> cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at least, developers
>> on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am ignoring, for the
>> present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue w/ permissive
>> licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
>> nothing really to deserve the hate...
>>
>> ... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.
> 
> One part is the statements. The other part, the most important one, is
> the actions.
> 
> Since the old "OpenOffice.org / OOo" is not there anymore, the
> http://www.openoffice.org/ website should reflect objectively that there 
> exist:
> 1. Apache OpenOffice, pointing to apache.openoffice.org
> 2. LibreOffice, pointing to libreoffice.org
> 
[knmc]
OpenOffice.org actually does exist there. The trademark and copyright
rights to OpenOffice.org were transferred to the ASF along with the
source code. Objective reality is that Apache OpenOffice is an active
project.[/knmc]
> I hope that Rob was only involved with the current design of the
> landing page at openoffice.org.
> There are a lot of strong feelings on this issue.
[knmc]
Rob was an active contributor to all facets of AOO. There are a lot of
strong feelings on both sides of the issue.
[/knmc]
Regards
Keith
> Simos
> 
>>
>> What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.
>>
>> Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such over-zealousness shouldn't
>> be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against (this explanation
>> was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.
>>
>> No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
>> here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
>> but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.
>>
>> After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??
>>
>>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
 +1

 I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
>>>
>>> I also don't know what a single person - which has left the project long 
>>> ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" thinking game.
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>>
>>>
 On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>
>
> On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
> wrote:
>
>> never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
>> were insulted by TDF representatives.
>
> It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
> the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
> public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
> feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
> perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
> heck are we doing here?
>>>
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>>




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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jim Jagielski]

++1

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Jan Høydahl  wrote:
> 
> A public statement may slow the flood of FUD, protecting our end users, while 
> a new release in November will
> give a clear signal that the project did not choose retirement, ss will all 
> subsequent releases.
> 
> --
> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
> 
>> 6. sep. 2016 kl. 22.25 skrev Jörg Schmidt :
>> 
>> The task of AOO is not the formulation of their own death message, but the 
>> further development of the project, *even* in difficult times. 
>> 
>> There was the proposal to publish a new release in November (during 
>> ApacheCon), that is imho a right step.
>> 
>> 
>> Jörg
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement 
>>> Involve? (long)
>>> 
>>> A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a 
>>> timely move now?
>>> It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to 
>>> various editors.
>>> The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for 
>>> copy/paste into news articles.
>>> It should paint the broader picture, the state of the 
>>> project, the current push for
>>> more developers etc. It could also explain ASF's focus on 
>>> healthy communities,
>>> as an explanation for the [DISCUSS] thread, and the fact that 
>>> an Apache project 
>>> not longer able to produce releases *may* end up being retired.
>>> 
>>> Could we get writing help from Apache public relations staff?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
>>> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
>>> 
 6. sep. 2016 kl. 20.13 skrev Jim Jagielski :
 
 Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
 be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
 answer.
 
 What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads 
>>> in various
 places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
 "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to 
>>> have done.
 I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
 person...
 
 Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) 
>>> directed towards
 AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply 
>>> redirected
 venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
 somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, 
>>> was maintained
 by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
 division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very 
>>> little rational
 cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at 
>>> least, developers
 on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am 
>>> ignoring, for the
 present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue 
>>> w/ permissive
 licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
 nothing really to deserve the hate...
 
 ... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.
 
 What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.
 
 Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such 
>>> over-zealousness shouldn't
 be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against 
>>> (this explanation
 was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.
 
 No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
 here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
 but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.
 
 After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??
 
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>> +1
>> 
>> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
> 
> I also don't know what a single person - which has left 
>>> the project long ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" 
>>> thinking game.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, 
>>> Rob Weir)
 were insulted by TDF representatives.
>>> 
>>> It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the 
>>> interests of
>>> the *users* first. This project is about producing 
>>> software for the
>>> public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
>>> feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
>>> perceived insults, and move on with our lives. 
>>> Otherwise, what the
>>> heck are we doing here?
> 
> 
>>> 

Re: apt-cyg

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/6/2016 2:58 PM, Don Lewis wrote:

On  6 Sep, Patricia Shanahan wrote:

apt-cyg is a bash script that provides, within cygwin, similar
capabilities to the Linux apt-get.

The Windows step-by-step recommends using it to add some packages.

One of our new volunteers has found that wget
http://apt-cyg.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/apt-cyg no longer works.

Does anyone know a location from which apt-cyg can be downloaded using
wget or equivalent?


Looks like it moved to github, see:



Yes, but I have not yet found a wget URL. I can view the bash code just 
fine.


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Re: Help needed: Build error in bean and vcl

[Marcus]

Am 09/06/2016 04:32 PM, schrieb Keith N. McKenna:

Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Marcus wrote:

I've got a AOO 4.2.0m1 Build 9800 Rev. 1759138.


Congratulations!


Thank very much for your help. Of course, as a good contributor I'll
collect all data and update [1] with a new Fedora 21 section.
[1]
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step



For some reason (or no reason) Fedora is described at
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Fedora_Build_Instructions

Regards,
   Andrea.

Andrea;
Would it make sense to re-direct that to the same area of the wiki as
the rest of the build guides?


done.

I've moved the content into the "Step_by_step" wikipage to have all in 
one page and left just a link to the new location. Tomorrow I'll add my 
Fedora 21 steps.


Marcus


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Re: apt-cyg

[Don Lewis]

On  6 Sep, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> apt-cyg is a bash script that provides, within cygwin, similar 
> capabilities to the Linux apt-get.
> 
> The Windows step-by-step recommends using it to add some packages.
> 
> One of our new volunteers has found that wget 
> http://apt-cyg.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/apt-cyg no longer works.
> 
> Does anyone know a location from which apt-cyg can be downloaded using 
> wget or equivalent?

Looks like it moved to github, see:



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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jan Høydahl]

A public statement may slow the flood of FUD, protecting our end users, while a 
new release in November will
give a clear signal that the project did not choose retirement, ss will all 
subsequent releases.

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com

> 6. sep. 2016 kl. 22.25 skrev Jörg Schmidt :
> 
> The task of AOO is not the formulation of their own death message, but the 
> further development of the project, *even* in difficult times. 
> 
> There was the proposal to publish a new release in November (during 
> ApacheCon), that is imho a right step.
> 
> 
> Jörg
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement 
>> Involve? (long)
>> 
>> A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a 
>> timely move now?
>> It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to 
>> various editors.
>> The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for 
>> copy/paste into news articles.
>> It should paint the broader picture, the state of the 
>> project, the current push for
>> more developers etc. It could also explain ASF's focus on 
>> healthy communities,
>> as an explanation for the [DISCUSS] thread, and the fact that 
>> an Apache project 
>> not longer able to produce releases *may* end up being retired.
>> 
>> Could we get writing help from Apache public relations staff?
>> 
>> --
>> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
>> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
>> 
>>> 6. sep. 2016 kl. 20.13 skrev Jim Jagielski :
>>> 
>>> Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
>>> be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
>>> answer.
>>> 
>>> What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads 
>> in various
>>> places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
>>> "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to 
>> have done.
>>> I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
>>> person...
>>> 
>>> Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) 
>> directed towards
>>> AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply 
>> redirected
>>> venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
>>> somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, 
>> was maintained
>>> by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
>>> division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very 
>> little rational
>>> cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at 
>> least, developers
>>> on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am 
>> ignoring, for the
>>> present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue 
>> w/ permissive
>>> licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
>>> nothing really to deserve the hate...
>>> 
>>> ... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.
>>> 
>>> What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.
>>> 
>>> Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such 
>> over-zealousness shouldn't
>>> be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against 
>> (this explanation
>>> was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.
>>> 
>>> No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
>>> here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
>>> but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.
>>> 
>>> After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??
>>> 
 On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
 
 Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> +1
> 
> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
 
 I also don't know what a single person - which has left 
>> the project long ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" 
>> thinking game.
 
 Marcus
 
 
 
> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, 
>> Rob Weir)
>>> were insulted by TDF representatives.
>> 
>> It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the 
>> interests of
>> the *users* first. This project is about producing 
>> software for the
>> public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
>> feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
>> perceived insults, and move on with our lives. 
>> Otherwise, what the
>> heck are we doing here?
 
 
>> -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

apt-cyg

[Patricia Shanahan]

apt-cyg is a bash script that provides, within cygwin, similar 
capabilities to the Linux apt-get.


The Windows step-by-step recommends using it to add some packages.

One of our new volunteers has found that wget 
http://apt-cyg.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/apt-cyg no longer works.


Does anyone know a location from which apt-cyg can be downloaded using 
wget or equivalent?


If not, does anyone object to me deleting the apt-cyg recommendation and 
replacing it with the alternative, using setup.exe to add the packages?


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Re: Development Donate

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/6/2016 10:43 AM, Burhan Karahasan wrote:

I want to donate your project. I want to join OpenOffice Development
Team. I am an amateur programmer but i can help.
-


In addition to dev@openoffice.apache.org we now have 
recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org which will concentrate on getting new 
volunteers up to speed.


I suggest subscribing to at least recruitment@, and introducing 
yourself. What sorts of computers do you use? What programming languages?




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Re: Recruitment mailing list arbeitet

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hallo Dave,

> From: Dave [mailto:davepo...@gmail.com] 

> Hi Jörg, klar, Englisch ist meine Muttersprache, und 
> Telefoninterviews habe
> ich öfter gemacht. Übersetzen ins Deutsche auch kein Ding. 
> Dankbar wäre
> ich, wenn du die Fragen (auf Deutsch) vorbereitest oder mich 
> informierst,
> worauf es genau ankommt. 

Ich freue mich wenn ich etwas dazu sagen darf, aber das maßgebliche Wort sollte 
Michael haben. 

Vorschlag:
denken wir alle etwas nach und machen morgen oder übermorgen ein Brainstorming 
offlist - alle Aktiven willkommen.

(Michael wird das "offlist" nicht mögen, aber bitte Michael springe über Deinen 
Schatten, es muss derzeitig um Wirksamkeit gehen und eine für uns wichtige 
Veröffentlichung schon vorher offen zu legen ist irgendwie nicht ganz sinnvoll. 
Auch aus Sicht der Zeitschrift nicht, denn die will ja letztlich auch mit 
unseren Beitrag etwas Geld verdienen.)

> Ich müsste mit dem "Entwickler" 
> reden, wieviel
> Platz wir bekämen. Bin mir aber ziemlich sicher, dass sie 
> sich sehr freuen
> würden und ziemlich großzügig wären. Trotzdem muss ich denen bescheid,
> sagen, was in etwa uns vorschwebt. 4 Seiten? wäre das 
> ausreichend? 

Ich finde leider im Netz keine Originalseite der Zeitschrift (alle Leseproben 
sind nicht im Originallayout), aber m.E. sind 2 Seiten völlig ausreichend, 
mutmaßlich wohl auch Eine.



Gruß
Jörg


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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jörg Schmidt]

The task of AOO is not the formulation of their own death message, but the 
further development of the project, *even* in difficult times. 

There was the proposal to publish a new release in November (during ApacheCon), 
that is imho a right step.


Jörg

> -Original Message-
> From: Jan Høydahl [mailto:jan@cominvent.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:00 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement 
> Involve? (long)
> 
> A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a 
> timely move now?
> It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to 
> various editors.
> The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for 
> copy/paste into news articles.
> It should paint the broader picture, the state of the 
> project, the current push for
> more developers etc. It could also explain ASF's focus on 
> healthy communities,
> as an explanation for the [DISCUSS] thread, and the fact that 
> an Apache project 
> not longer able to produce releases *may* end up being retired.
> 
> Could we get writing help from Apache public relations staff?
> 
> --
> Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
> Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com
> 
> > 6. sep. 2016 kl. 20.13 skrev Jim Jagielski :
> > 
> > Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
> > be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
> > answer.
> > 
> > What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads 
> in various
> > places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
> > "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to 
> have done.
> > I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
> > person...
> > 
> > Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) 
> directed towards
> > AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply 
> redirected
> > venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
> > somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, 
> was maintained
> > by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
> > division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very 
> little rational
> > cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at 
> least, developers
> > on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am 
> ignoring, for the
> > present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue 
> w/ permissive
> > licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
> > nothing really to deserve the hate...
> > 
> > ... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.
> > 
> > What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.
> > 
> > Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such 
> over-zealousness shouldn't
> > be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against 
> (this explanation
> > was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.
> > 
> > No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
> > here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
> > but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.
> > 
> > After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??
> > 
> >> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> >> 
> >> Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> >>> +1
> >>> 
> >>> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
> >> 
> >> I also don't know what a single person - which has left 
> the project long ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" 
> thinking game.
> >> 
> >> Marcus
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>  
>  
>  On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
>  wrote:
>  
> > never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, 
> Rob Weir)
> > were insulted by TDF representatives.
>  
>  It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the 
> interests of
>  the *users* first. This project is about producing 
> software for the
>  public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
>  feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
>  perceived insults, and move on with our lives. 
> Otherwise, what the
>  heck are we doing here?
> >> 
> >> 
> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> > 
> 
> 


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Re: Recruitment mailing list arbeitet

[Dave]

Hi Jörg, klar, Englisch ist meine Muttersprache, und Telefoninterviews habe
ich öfter gemacht. Übersetzen ins Deutsche auch kein Ding. Dankbar wäre
ich, wenn du die Fragen (auf Deutsch) vorbereitest oder mich informierst,
worauf es genau ankommt. Ich müsste mit dem "Entwickler" reden, wieviel
Platz wir bekämen. Bin mir aber ziemlich sicher, dass sie sich sehr freuen
würden und ziemlich großzügig wären. Trotzdem muss ich denen bescheid,
sagen, was in etwa uns vorschwebt. 4 Seiten? wäre das ausreichend? Viele
Grüße, Dave (Sorry, dass ich erst jetzt antworte, mein Computer ist voll
gecrasht ... )

Am 6. September 2016 um 13:30 schrieb Jörg Schmidt :

> Hallo Dave,
> Hallo Michael,
> Hallo *,
>
> > From: Dave [mailto:davepo...@gmail.com]
>
> > Ich schreibe eine Mail an Masoud Kemali, mein Neffe und
> > Herausgeber der
> > Zeitschrift Der Entwickler.
>
> Das ist eine wirklich gute Idee.
>
> > Aber bevor ich sie schreibe,
> > bitte ich um eine
> > Vorlage. Möchte ja nichts falsches schreiben. Wahrscheinlich
> > sogar könnte
> > ich ein Interview oder einen Artikel platzieren. Ich bin
> > gerne bereit, das
> > Interview zu führen, so was habe ich öfter gemacht, wenn auch eher für
> > politische Zeitschriften. Aber Opensource ist auch was
> > Politisches :)
>
> Mmmh, was erwartest Du denn als "Vorlage" in etwa?
>
> Ein Interview wäre imho sinnvoll mit entweder einem PMC-Vertreter oder mit
> einem der Entwickler. Was meinst Du, Michael, was der bessere Ansatz wäre?
>
> (Ich hätte persönlich nichts dagegen notfalls auch etwas zu sagen, aber
> ich bin kein PMC-Offizieller und als IT-Berater wohl auch niemand der
> hinreichend 'kompatibel' zu den Lesern einer Entwickler-Zeitschrift ist.)
>
>
> Michael, sag Du bitte etwas dazu.
> Falls Du keine konkrete Preferenz hast welchen Weg wir einschlagen sollen,
> würde ich nötigenfalls einfach auf der internationalen dev-Liste fragen ob
> einer der Entwickler ein Interview gibt.
>
> Wärest Du, Dave, auch in der Lage ein englischsprachiges Interview per
> Telefon zu führen? Ich mutmaße mal das es darauf hinauslaufen würde.
>
>
>
> Gruß
> Jörg
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jan Høydahl]

A well written Press Release from the AOO PMC could be a timely move now?
It could be published on the Apache blog as well as sent to various editors.
The PR should be short, to the point and suitable for copy/paste into news 
articles.
It should paint the broader picture, the state of the project, the current push 
for
more developers etc. It could also explain ASF's focus on healthy communities,
as an explanation for the [DISCUSS] thread, and the fact that an Apache project 
not longer able to produce releases *may* end up being retired.

Could we get writing help from Apache public relations staff?

--
Jan Høydahl, search solution architect
Cominvent AS - www.cominvent.com

> 6. sep. 2016 kl. 20.13 skrev Jim Jagielski :
> 
> Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
> be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
> answer.
> 
> What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various
> places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
> "damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to have done.
> I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
> person...
> 
> Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) directed towards
> AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply redirected
> venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
> somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, was maintained
> by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
> division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very little rational
> cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at least, developers
> on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am ignoring, for the
> present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue w/ permissive
> licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
> nothing really to deserve the hate...
> 
> ... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.
> 
> What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.
> 
> Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such over-zealousness shouldn't
> be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against (this explanation
> was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.
> 
> No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
> here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
> but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.
> 
> After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??
> 
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
>> 
>> Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
>> 
>> I also don't know what a single person - which has left the project long ago 
>> - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" thinking game.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
 
 
 On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
 wrote:
 
> never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
> were insulted by TDF representatives.
 
 It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
 the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
 public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
 feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
 perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
 heck are we doing here?
>> 
>> -
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: The AOO build system

[Andrea Pescetti]

Phillip Rhodes wrote:

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Phillip Rhodes wrote:

1. What is the main problem with the build system as it is?

It's ugly. I recall you once built OpenOffice, right? It is not the easy
configure + make. Still, it works and the build system is not standing in
the way for a release.

OK, that's good to know.  I got the impression from some earlier
discussions that it was somehow a major sticking point in terms of getting
releases out and what-not.  Good to see that that's not the case.


The build system (as in code structure) is not much in the way. 
Creating, uploading and releasing binaries, instead, is very time-consuming.



3. Regarding Mac in particular, I'll repeat this question from an earlier

thread:  Does the ASF have Mac hardware for doing Mac builds, or are we
dependent solely on developer machines for that?

All OpenOffice releases have always been built on machines under control
of individual developers.

Ah, OK.  Is that the desired state of affairs? Or would there be any
impetus to try to get dedicated build machines that are hosted somewhere
and used for the binary builds?


There is a (saner than most discussions seen here in the last days) 
thread about it: https://s.apache.org/utpy


Most notably, as a Linux user you might want to follow the recipe there 
and try to create you own 32-bit CentOS 5 (old, but our baseline for the 
moment) VM for building release-ready OpenOffice 32-bit builds. 
Everything is done already, but I'll be posting updates to that thread 
as soon as I have time for it.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Development Donate

[Burhan Karahasan]

I want to donate your project. I want to join OpenOffice Development Team. I am 
an amateur programmer but i can help. 

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jim Jagielski]

Not sure how this will come across... I am certain I will not
be fully understood about this, anyway, this question deserves an
answer.

What has been obvious, from following the numerous threads in various
places, as well as contributing to the 2 main ones, is just how much
"damage" Rob Weir has either done or has been attributed to have done.
I guess the best way to state it is that he was a very "polarizing"
person...

Now a lot of the ill-will (and even worse, the hate) directed towards
AOO is not due to anything we personally did, but is simply redirected
venom, mostly due to how LO felt abused and used by Oracle and that
somehow we were complicit in it (this fallacy, of course, was maintained
by people who had a not-so-hidden-agenda to create and reinforce the
division between AOO and LO). There was really very, very little rational
cause for TDF/LO hating Apache and AOO so much... or, at least, developers
on that side being so antagonist towards Apache (I am ignoring, for the
present, those extreme copyleft proponents who have issue w/ permissive
licensing for anything). What I'm basically saying is that we did
nothing really to deserve the hate...

... except for maybe some of the "over zealous" statements by Rob.

What is kinda clear is that there is still a lot of sting there.

Now I did somewhat try to "explain" how such over-zealousness shouldn't
be so surprising, considering what he was fighting against (this explanation
was in the LWN thread), but rationalization isn't excuse.

No, I am not saying we focus on the past... but while we are
here for the present and future, we shouldn't "ignore" the past
but rather acknowledge it, and then bury it.

After all, aren't we asking TDF/LO to do the same??

> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:57 PM, Marcus  wrote:
> 
> Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>> +1
>> 
>> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
> 
> I also don't know what a single person - which has left the project long ago 
> - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" thinking game.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 
> 
>> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
 were insulted by TDF representatives.
>>> 
>>> It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
>>> the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
>>> public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
>>> feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
>>> perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
>>> heck are we doing here?
> 
> -
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Resigning from Apache OpenOffice Moving On and Thank You for your Service Apache Open Office Warrior!

[Chery]

Thank You for your Service Apache Open Office Warrior! 

Life is like a book. 
We have 
Sentences 
Paragraphs
Chapters
And Epilogues.

All these phases of our lives must happen or we aren't living life to the
fullest.

Or, Life is like a jigsaw puzzle. We have to play our puzzle pieces to make
our lives a complete picture.


So, with that said:
Thank you Kay for your valued service and my hope is that your book or
puzzle continue to fill in to complete your life.

Yours Truly,
Chery 

-Original Message-
From: Jim Jagielski [mailto:j...@jagunet.com] 
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2016 2:06 PM
To: priv...@openoffice.apache.org; Kay Schenk
Cc: OOo Apache
Subject: Re: Resigning from Apache OpenOffice

Thus makes me very, very sad. I hope that my comments are not a factor here.
As anyone who had been following the hacker-news and LWN thread know, I am a
supporter of AOO; I have been one since the start despite the slings and
arrows directed towards me in being such.

There was no intent to malign the people doing fantastic work on AOO, nor
their enthusiasm, etc... The thread started was simply a request for
discussion about what a retirement would look like; I relayed my thoughts as
such. No more, no less.

Personally, I'd like you to reconsider.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> 
> I'm resigning from Apache OpenOffice. I've been an unpaid volunteer with
OpenOffice.org and Apache OpenOffice since April, 2001.  At this point, I'm
thinking it's time to move on. 
> 
> A big THANK YOU to all the developers that made OpenOffice the outstanding
open source product it is today.  THANK YOU to all the community members who
contributed tirelessly to the  ancillary  functions of both these projects.
And finally, special thanks to the infrastructure team at the Apache
Software Foundation for the remarkable job they did for Apache OpenOffice
and continue to do.
> 
> Best wishes to all of you, and may the road ahead for OpenOffice be
smooth.
> 
> I'm assuming that my karma to the following areas will be removed later
today: committer rights to the source svn repository; rights to the PMC and
security lists and repositories.
> 
> --
> --
> Kay Schenk
> Apache OpenOffice
> 
> "Things work out best for those who make  the best of the way things 
> work out."
>-- John Wooden


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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Marcus]

Am 09/06/2016 05:22 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

+1

I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.


I also don't know what a single person - which has left the project long 
ago - has to do with a "what-if-or-if-not" thinking game.


Marcus




On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:



On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
wrote:


never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
were insulted by TDF representatives.


It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
heck are we doing here?


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Re: Recruitment mailing list arbeitet

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: RA Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de] 

> Ich halte das für eine sehr gute Idee.
> 
> Inzwischen hat auch - auf meine Anregung hin 

well done ;-)

> Da wir unsere Entwickler nicht bei der Arbeit stören sollten 
> ;-) , stehe
> ich für Rückfragen oder ein Interview zur Verfügung.

danke.


Sollten speziell auch Informationen zum kommerziellen/professionellen Einsatz 
von OpenOffice erwünscht sein, kann ich gerne auch einige Informationen 
beitragen.


Gruß
Jörg


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RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

+1

> -Original Message-
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 08:23
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)
> 
> +1
> 
> I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.
> 
> On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
> >> were insulted by TDF representatives.
> >
> > It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
> > the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
> > public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
> > feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
> > perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
> > heck are we doing here?
> 
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Re: The AOO build system

[Phillip Rhodes]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>>
>> 1. What is the main problem with the build system as it is?
>>
>
> It's ugly. I recall you once built OpenOffice, right? It is not the easy
> configure + make. Still, it works and the build system is not standing in
> the way for a release.


OK, that's good to know.  I got the impression from some earlier
discussions that it was somehow a major sticking point in terms of getting
releases out and what-not.  Good to see that that's not the case.



> 2. Do we need a whole new system, or just incremental improvements to
>> what we have?
>>
>
> In 4.2.0 we have merged significant improvements. What we have is enough
> for the time being.


Cool.


3. Regarding Mac in particular, I'll repeat this question from an earlier
>> thread:  Does the ASF have Mac hardware for doing Mac builds, or are we
>> dependent solely on developer machines for that?
>>
>
> All OpenOffice releases have always been built on machines under control
> of individual developers.



Ah, OK.  Is that the desired state of affairs? Or would there be any
impetus to try to get dedicated build machines that are hosted somewhere
and used for the binary builds?



>
>
> 5. Other than Mac builds, are any other platforms especially limited or
>> restricted in any way?
>>
>
> Our reference environments are described at http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/o
> penoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/ ; the build system itself is not
> a huge obstacle. I concede that a newcomer will find it hard, but you
> mastered it, so you are one of the few who actually know whether it is too
> hard.
>

As I recall, running an AOO build (on Linux) wasn't exactly trivial, but it
wasn't mind numbingly difficult either.  The big hold up I ran into was
that there was some bug or other back then, that was blocking things up.
IIRC, there was already a known work-around / fix for that, so hopefully
that has been incorporated by now.




> 6. Do we still build for OS/2? :-)
>>
>
> We don't support it officially. Volunteers do it as a third-party port but
> they do contribute code to the project, so for example 4.1.2 saw a number
> of changes that were meant to make the OS/2 build possible.


Cool. I haven't used it in over a decade, but I still have a soft-spot for
OS/2.  :-)


Phil

Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Simos Xenitellis]

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:37 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 wrote:
> As different "technical press" outlets make their own derivations of other 
> articles, there is incorrect quotation and reference to historical matters 
> that have nothing to do with the present state and how we move forward.
>
> For me, the LWN and ArsTechnica coverage is relatively fact-based.  Now, 
> there are some others that tend to be more responsible with regard to 
> journalism:
>
>  * PCWorld 
> .
>
>  * ZDNet, on the other hand, is lazily derivative by borrowing on other 
> articles.  It also shows ignorance of how Apache projects operate when it 
> mentions "lack of funding." and perpetuates the idea that Microsoft Office or 
> LibreOffice be switched to in the CVE advisory.  The statement about other 
> products was for testing dodgy Impress documents that users might be 
> concerned about.  In any case, now that there is a hotfix, Version 2.0 of the 
> advisory does not need to address that. 
> .
>

A common mistake with all articles (well, apart from the LWN one) is
that they use the plain "OpenOffice" name to describe what is
officially "Apache OpenOffice".
AFAIK, the project does not have a trademark on "OpenOffice", but does
on "Apache OpenOffice".
The main website, at http://www.openoffice.org/, is a mix of "Apache
OpenOffice" and plain "OpenOffice" which is confusing.

I checked the documentation at http://openoffice.apache.org/trademarks.html
which claims that the Apache Foundation has the Apache OpenOffice™ and
OpenOffice.org®.
However, my search at the US Trademark database does not show an
"Apache OpenOffice" registered trademark.
It does show a live trademark for the old "OpenOffice.org" and also
for "LibreOffice" (for The Document Foundation).
But no "Apache OpenOffice".
Anyone can file for a trademark for "Apache OpenOffice", as they have
done already with the domain "ApacheOpenOffice.org".

Simos

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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Patricia Shanahan]

+1

I'm here for the present and the future, not the past.

On 9/6/2016 8:15 AM, Rich Bowen wrote:



On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt 
wrote:


never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir)
were insulted by TDF representatives.


It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of
the *users* first. This project is about producing software for the
public good, not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt
feelings. We owe it to the users to forgive and forget actual and
perceived insults, and move on with our lives. Otherwise, what the
heck are we doing here?


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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Rich Bowen]

On 2016-09-02 09:02 (-0400), Jorg Schmidt  wrote: 

> never we forget how members of OpenOffice (for example, Rob Weir) were 
> insulted by
> TDF representatives.

It's important, in all of this conversation, to keep the interests of the 
*users* first. This project is about producing software for the public good, 
not about winning some contest, or nursing our hurt feelings. We owe it to the 
users to forgive and forget actual and perceived insults, and move on with our 
lives. Otherwise, what the heck are we doing here?


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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jim Jagielski]

It appears to me that what "we" should do is to create a blog
entry on blogs.a.o which provides more depth and detail in
this whole kerfluffle. It could contain WHY the original [DISCUSS]
thread was sent, that it was, in fact, a [DISCUSS] and basically
to initiate some *thought* and not any sort of admission that
AOO is dead or dieing (my follow-up may have not helped there,
but it was the basis for why the board wanted answers), clear
up some history and FUD which has been spread and summarize that
this awareness has resulted in lots and lots of people coming to
AOO and offering their help and talents.

Personally, I'd also like to see us "apologize" for allowing
Rob Weir to go off a little "extreme" in numerous cases. Again,
I doubt that anyone on the TDF/LO side would do the same, and admit
their "overzealousness" at times (to the detriment of cooperation),
but just because others don't do what they should is no reason for
us to not to. If "apologize" is too strong, at least honestly
acknowledge it.

I understand that the previous paragraph may be controversial so
take it or leave it.

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RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Response in-line.

> -Original Message-
> From: Federico Leva (Nemo) [mailto:nemow...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 03:30
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)
> 
> I see the biggest point as missing from the list/plan posted by Dennis
> E. Hamilton: an easy upgrade path for current OpenOffice users, to make
> sure that people aren't inconvenienced and that the efforts OpenOffice
> contributors' made for the growth FLOSS aren't wasted.
> 
> Perhaps some of the install/upgrade facilities could automate the switch
> to LibreOffice, and/or the most visited URLs (such as /download/ on the
> OOo website and /files/latest/download on Sourceforge) could be
> redirected to the LibreOffice equivalents.
> 
> I'm sure the devs can find technically suitable solutions. If ASF can't
> handle such long-term preservation, another stable entity with long-term
> interest in the task could be transferred all assets and tasked with the
> goal (for instance The Document Foundation?).
[orcmid] 

The sketch is not developed to that level of detail and there would be much to 
consider if retirement, which would extend over months, were the option taken.  
The point of a graceful retirement is to ensure that the extensive OpenOffice 
community is well-served and achieves a soft landing.

Continuing the [DISCUSS], I pointed out that advice about where to find 
alternatives could be provided as part of the "updates available" periodic 
reminders at the web site.  My own preference is that we not choose a 
successor, but provide a menu of choices for users to investigate and choose 
from.  In general, ASF projects do not endorse products and services, but do 
provide information on what is available.  This strikes me as a valuable 
approach as part of any retirement scenario.

> 
> Nemo
> 
> P.s.: To archive a MediaWiki website, you can create a static copy with
> mwoffliner https://github.com/kiwix/mwoffliner and serve it with
> kiwix-serve; all history should be preserved with dumps on the Internet
> Archive: https://github.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam/wiki/Tutorial . Software
> for WARC can also prove useful for any website.
[orcmid] 

This is covered in the [DISCUSS] material.  In particular the Apache Attic 
project provides much of this.

Thank you for the information about kiwix-serve.  Creating static sites would 
be important in preserving the MediaWiki.

 - Dennis
> 
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FW: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

Peter Kovacs had communicated his thoughts directly to me.  I am forwarding 
them to dev@oo.a.o with his permission.

 - Dennis

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 23:15
> To: orc...@apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)
> 
> Hi Dennis,
> 
> YES please feel free.
> I really would like to join. But I have to step down today. I hope I
> manage in future, with my sparse c++ and java skills.
> Also I do not want to boss around.
> But the team really should consider to give some official statements on
> the retirement idea, plus show that it is worth joining. Mid and long
> term goals are now super important. So more volunteers have reason to
> join.
> Currently you have managed to get a lot media attention.   use it.
> 
> All the best Peter
> 
> 
> Dennis E. Hamilton  >
> schrieb am Di., 6. Sep. 2016, 04:53:
> 
> 
>   Peter thank you for your thoughts.
> 
>   I must tell you that the way that Apache OpenOffice operates as an
> Apache Project is without an Executive.  There is a Project Management
> Committee and I am the chair (and an Officer), but the work is guided by
> consensus in the PMC and the developer community.
> 
>   So we use the mailing list heavily as part of that.
> 
>   With your permission, I can forward your message to the developer
> list.  Otherwise, there is no way that your suggestions and observations
> will become known.
> 
>   Also, frankly the problem is about resources, not goals and
> strategies.  And, of course, it is all done by volunteers.
> 
>   Let me know.
> 
>   And, again, thanks for writing to me.
> 
>- Dennis
> 
>   > -Original Message-
>   > From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:legi...@gmail.com
>  ]
>   > Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 17:01
>   > To: orc...@apache.org 
>   > Subject: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve?
> (long)
>   >
>   > Hello,
>   >
>   > I write to you because i do not have the time to realy follow a
> mailing
>   > list you have, even if I take deep interest in it. Also in
> general i
>   > would like to join development, however there are currently
> different
>   > constraints that keep me from it.
>   > Still following passifly the discussion I would like to pick up
> some
>   > ends, which are from my outside perspective important. (besides I
> do not
>   > like Mailing list since I got flamed at on a debian user mailing
> list. I
>   > had a beginner question in 2003)
>   >
>   [ ... ]
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: Diese Nachricht stammt aus einem Google Account. Ihre
> Antwort wird in der Google Cloud Gespeichert und durch Google
> Algorythmen zwecks werbeanaöysen gescannt. Es ist derzeit nicht
> auszuschließen das ihre Nachricht auch durch einen NSA Mitarbeiter
> geprüft wird. Durch kommunikation mit diesen Account stimmen Sie zu das
> ihre Mail, ihre Kontaktdaten und die Termine die Sie mit mir vereinbaren
> online zu Google konditionen in der Googlecloud gespeichert wird.
> Sollten sie dies nicht wünschen kontaktieren sie mich bitte Umgehend um
> z.B. alternativen zu verhandeln.



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RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

As different "technical press" outlets make their own derivations of other 
articles, there is incorrect quotation and reference to historical matters that 
have nothing to do with the present state and how we move forward.  

For me, the LWN and ArsTechnica coverage is relatively fact-based.  Now, there 
are some others that tend to be more responsible with regard to journalism:

 * PCWorld 
.

 * ZDNet, on the other hand, is lazily derivative by borrowing on other 
articles.  It also shows ignorance of how Apache projects operate when it 
mentions "lack of funding." and perpetuates the idea that Microsoft Office or 
LibreOffice be switched to in the CVE advisory.  The statement about other 
products was for testing dodgy Impress documents that users might be concerned 
about.  In any case, now that there is a hotfix, Version 2.0 of the advisory 
does not need to address that. 
.

Finally, this discussion is not a zero-sum game.  Striving to expand 
development coverage and address the need to be able to make timely maintenance 
updates for dangerous defects, including security vulnerabilities are all 
important.  This [DISCUSS] is about anticipating all of the stages and moving 
parts to address as part of any graceful retirement.  That there is also 
inspiration of non-retirement alternatives is very useful and the rush to 
address that is heartening.  But all paths are contingent on having the 
capacity to act and adequate expert capabilities.  If retirement is the 
direction taken, that must also be while there is the capacity to carry it out.

It is also important to understand that this public list is *the* place to 
address all of that.  It is how the Apache Software Foundation provides 
transparency and embraces its community in developing its technical approaches, 
always striving to serve the public interest as required in its Charter.  Being 
suppressed by worries of outside scrutiny and adversarial articles and 
responses is not something that should dissuade us.  Problems have to be faced 
bravely and openly.

 - Dennis



> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:40
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)
> 
> And here's another:
>  years-of-neglect-could-shut-down/>.
> 
> This one is also rather straightforward, using this list for its
> sources.
> 
> I looked through the comments.  There is nothing that we haven't seen
> before.
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:05
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve?
> (long)
> >
> > Also, .
> >
> > The article itself is very straightforward.  The comments wander
> around
> > all over the place with the usual pontifications about corporate
> > influence, etc.
> >
> > An important point is made, by the way, over how it is that
> LibreOffice
> > deployment is far easier than that for AOO, and also much improved.
> >
> >  - Dennios
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: RA Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 04:01
> > > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve?
> > (long)
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > our discussion became public:
> > >
> > > http://www.linux-magazin.de/content/view/full/106599
> > >
> > > This shows a public interest. So "going public" seems not to
> > difficult.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 
> 
> -
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Re: Help needed: Build error in bean and vcl

[Keith N. McKenna]

Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Marcus wrote:
>> I've got a AOO 4.2.0m1 Build 9800 Rev. 1759138.
> 
> Congratulations!
> 
>> Thank very much for your help. Of course, as a good contributor I'll
>> collect all data and update [1] with a new Fedora 21 section.
>> [1]
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>>
> 
> For some reason (or no reason) Fedora is described at
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Fedora_Build_Instructions
> 
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
Andrea;
Would it make sense to re-direct that to the same area of the wiki as
the rest of the build guides?

Regards
Keith



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Re: Recruitment mailing list arbeitet

[RA Stehmann]

Am 06.09.2016 um 12:44 schrieb Dave:
> Ich schreibe eine Mail an Masoud Kemali, mein Neffe und Herausgeber der
> Zeitschrift Der Entwickler. Aber bevor ich sie schreibe, bitte ich um eine
> Vorlage. Möchte ja nichts falsches schreiben. Wahrscheinlich sogar könnte
> ich ein Interview oder einen Artikel platzieren. Ich bin gerne bereit, das
> Interview zu führen, so was habe ich öfter gemacht, wenn auch eher für
> politische Zeitschriften. Aber Opensource ist auch was Politisches :) Vor
> vielen vielen Jahren hatte ich auch im Entwickler eine Anleitung zu Writer
> veröffentlicht. Diese Zeitschrift erreicht vor allem Programmierer, wäre
> also für unsere Zwecke genau das Richtige.
> 
> 

Ich halte das für eine sehr gute Idee.

Inzwischen hat auch - auf meine Anregung hin - Heise berichtet:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Mailingliste-fuer-neue-OpenOffice-Entwickler-eingerichtet-3314692.html

Meine Mitteilung sah wie folgt aus:

"""
URL zur Quelle:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201609.mbox/%3Cce0f323b-8a0b-b11e-8419-ac7a9f584185%40acm.org%3E

Ihre Mitteilung in einem Satz:
Apache OpenOffice hat Mailingliste für neue Entwickler eingerichtet

Ihre ausführliche Mitteilung:
Nach den jüngsten Diskussionen über das Ende  von Apache OpenOffice
haben sich beim Projekt vermehrt Entwickler gemeldet, die bei der
Weiterentwicklung helfen wollen.

Um Freiwillige künftig noch besser betreuen zu können, hat das Projekt
nun eine Mailingliste recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org  eingerichtet.
Jeder, der  Apache OpenOffice helfen will, kann diese Liste durch eine
E-Mail an recruitment-subscr...@openoffice.apache.org abonnieren.

Zweck dieser Liste ist es, einen Ort zu schaffen, an dem sich neue
Entwickler einfinden und vorstellen können, wo sie von erfahreneren
Entwicklern Vorschläge für ihre nächsten Schritte erhalten und ihre
Fragen beantwortet werden.
"""

Da wir unsere Entwickler nicht bei der Arbeit stören sollten ;-) , stehe
ich für Rückfragen oder ein Interview zur Verfügung.

Gruß
Michael







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good news

[RA Stehmann]

Hello,

I contacted Heise, an IT-newsportal, and had a little success:

They report about our recruitment mailing list:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Mailingliste-fuer-neue-OpenOffice-Entwickler-eingerichtet-3314692.html

Kind regard
Michael



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Re: Help needed: Build error in bean and vcl

[Andrea Pescetti]

Marcus wrote:

I've got a AOO 4.2.0m1 Build 9800 Rev. 1759138.


Congratulations!


Thank very much for your help. Of course, as a good contributor I'll
collect all data and update [1] with a new Fedora 21 section.
[1]
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step


For some reason (or no reason) Fedora is described at
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Fedora_Build_Instructions

Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Andrea Pescetti]

Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

I see the biggest point as missing from the list/plan posted by Dennis
E. Hamilton: an easy upgrade path for current OpenOffice users


It was not a plan. It was a what-if game that tried to analyze with an 
excessive level of detail how to execute one of the possible options. 
Seeing reactions, and hoping that the current energy is channeled 
correctly, I would say that at the moment a decision to retire 
OpenOffice is not the most likely option... thus making this entire 
discussion void.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Federico Leva (Nemo) [mailto:nemow...@gmail.com] 

> Perhaps some of the install/upgrade facilities could automate 
> the switch 
> to LibreOffice, and/or the most visited URLs (such as 
> /download/ on the 
> OOo website and /files/latest/download on Sourceforge) could be 
> redirected to the LibreOffice equivalents.

-1

> (for instance The Document Foundation?).

-1


OpenOffice is an independent project and not part of LibreOffice and certainly 
not part of the TDF.


Jörg


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[DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

I see the biggest point as missing from the list/plan posted by Dennis 
E. Hamilton: an easy upgrade path for current OpenOffice users, to make 
sure that people aren't inconvenienced and that the efforts OpenOffice 
contributors' made for the growth FLOSS aren't wasted.


Perhaps some of the install/upgrade facilities could automate the switch 
to LibreOffice, and/or the most visited URLs (such as /download/ on the 
OOo website and /files/latest/download on Sourceforge) could be 
redirected to the LibreOffice equivalents.


I'm sure the devs can find technically suitable solutions. If ASF can't 
handle such long-term preservation, another stable entity with long-term 
interest in the task could be transferred all assets and tasked with the 
goal (for instance The Document Foundation?).


Nemo

P.s.: To archive a MediaWiki website, you can create a static copy with 
mwoffliner https://github.com/kiwix/mwoffliner and serve it with 
kiwix-serve; all history should be preserved with dumps on the Internet 
Archive: https://github.com/WikiTeam/wikiteam/wiki/Tutorial . Software 
for WARC can also prove useful for any website.


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Re: License information

[JZA]

License is not just about price, actually price is irrelevant is about who
can gain access to the code and what uses can be used. Please read the
license at:
http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0

However you are "free" to use it from our website without the need to make
any payment s to us. Althought donations are encourage.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:56 AM, Harkesh Yadav 
wrote:

> Dear sir
> I am just confirm for the license of *Apache open office *It’s a  free or
> chargeable software please provide the information
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Thanks & Regards Harkesh *
>
> *   9711087683*
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
9060 55AB FFD2 2F02 0E1A  3409 599C 14FC 9450 D3CF

License information

[Harkesh Yadav]

Dear sir
I am just confirm for the license of *Apache open office *It’s a  free or
chargeable software please provide the information








*Thanks & Regards Harkesh *

*   9711087683*

Re: OO

[Dr. Michael Stehmann]

Thank you for your helpfulness.

We have a new mailinglist for volunteers now.

Anyone who wants to help can subscribe to
recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org by sending e-mail to
recruitment-subscr...@openoffice.apache.org

The objective is to provide a place for new volunteers to introduce
themselves and get suggestions.

Kind regards
Michael

Am 06.09.2016 um 09:16 schrieb Your Comrade:
> Please, let's not close the project OpenOffice!
> In Ukraine, there are many smart developers who are interested in the work of 
> the developer for a small salary.
> For example, many would agree to work extra for $ 100 per month! If you do 
> not have developers, so in Ukraine, a lot of them, however much and left.
> Personally, I find a few dozen developers in Ukraine, and I can personally 
> participate in the project!
> Money to pay can be obtained from the introduction of the basic software 
> known products and systems: Android, iOS, MacOS.
> My skills:
> Android, Java + NDK (C / C ++)
> Write, if you want to form a group - I will form a group!
> 
> ---
> Your Comrade
> 




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Re: compiler warnings when building OpenOffice

[Don Lewis]

On  1 Sep, Don Lewis wrote:

>  493 -Wunused-private-field
>  391 -Wunused-parameter
>  366 -Wunused-const-variable
>  314 -Woverloaded-virtual
>  181 -Wunused-variable
>  109 -Wlogical-op-parentheses
>   93 -Wsign-compare
>   77 -Wdelete-non-virtual-dtor
>   72 -Wint-to-void-pointer-cast
>   63 -Wshadow
>   56 -Wunused-function
>   41 -Wformat
>   36 -Wreturn-type-c-linkage
>   30 -Wchar-subscripts
>   27 -Wdeprecated-declarations
>   26 -Wundefined-bool-conversion
>   26 -Wsizeof-pointer-memaccess
>   25 -Wtautological-undefined-compare
>   24 -Wunused-local-typedef
>   22 -Wmacro-redefined
>   21 -Wswitch
>   20 -Wbitwise-op-parentheses
>   18 -Winvalid-source-encoding
>   13 -Wuninitialized
>   11 -Wtautological-compare
>   11 -Wlogical-not-parentheses
>   11 -Wdangling-else
>9 -Wmismatched-new-delete
>8 -Wimplicit-function-declaration
>8 -Wcomment
>7 -Wtautological-constant-out-of-range-compare
>7 -Wself-assign
>7 -Wheader-guard
>6 -Wunused-value
>6 -Wunneeded-internal-declaration
>6 -Wtautological-pointer-compare
>6 -Wpointer-bool-conversion
>6 -Wparentheses-equality
>6 -Wdynamic-class-memaccess
>6 -Wconstant-conversion
>5 -Wpointer-sign
>4 -Wnull-conversion
>3 -Wunsequenced
>3 -Wreorder
>3 -Wknr-promoted-parameter
>3 -Wint-to-pointer-cast
>2 -Wstrncat-size
>2 -Wstring-compare
>2 -Wsometimes-uninitialized
>2 -Wconstant-logical-operand
>2 -Warray-bounds
>1 -Wunused-comparison
>1 -Wunknown-pragmas
>1 -Wstring-plus-int
>1 -Wpotentially-evaluated-expression
>1 -Wnon-literal-null-conversion
>1 -Wmismatched-tags
>1 -Wincompatible-pointer-types-discards-qualifiers
>1 -Wimplicit-int
>1 -Wignored-qualifiers
>1 -Wformat-extra-args
>1 -Wcompare-distinct-pointer-types
>1 -Wc++11-compat-deprecated-writable-strings


Here is the per-module warning count:
 513 icc
 222 sw
 167 svx
 154 icu
 151 oox
 149 sc
 145 sd
 107 svtools
  72 vcl
  70 sal
  67 xmloff
  52 i18npool
  46 cui
  42 sfx2
  40 connectivity
  39 dbaccess
  38 canvas
  36 slideshow
  34 sdext
  31 filter
  29 xmlhelp
  29 libxmlsec
  29 chart2
  28 framework
  27 toolkit
  25 editeng
  25 accessibility
  24 reportdesign
  22 l10ntools
  20 basic
  20 basegfx
  19 desktop
  19 automation
  14 xmlsecurity
  14 avmedia
  12 ucb
  11 extensions
  11 cppuhelper
  10 writerfilter
  10 unoxml
   9 starmath
   9 basctl
   7 tools
   7 soltools


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