Re: 2015-08-25 When Speaking as the Chair
2015-08-28 15:38 GMT+02:00 toki : > On 26/08/15 00:56, Tony Stevenson wrote: > > >> I don't want to have my communications to now be taken with > >> more authority than they would were I not the Chair. > > > > For anyone who knows how the ASF works they will know that this is not > > even possible. As you are no more senior, and therefore carry no more > > authority. > > The key phrase is "anybody who knows how the ASF works". > > Most people don't, which is part of the reason why the template for > incubation as an Apache Project included "an excessive fascination with > the Apache Way". > > What Dennis is doing, is making explicit _The Apache Way_, and hoping > that journalists, etc will read that post, before they make their > incorrect assumptions. > I couldn't have said that better myself. I wish to thank Dennis for having made clear a basic but yet very important thing from his first day. Roberto > > jonathon > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
Re: 2015-08-25 When Speaking as the Chair
On 26/08/15 00:56, Tony Stevenson wrote: >> I don't want to have my communications to now be taken with >> more authority than they would were I not the Chair. > > For anyone who knows how the ASF works they will know that this is not > even possible. As you are no more senior, and therefore carry no more > authority. The key phrase is "anybody who knows how the ASF works". Most people don't, which is part of the reason why the template for incubation as an Apache Project included "an excessive fascination with the Apache Way". What Dennis is doing, is making explicit _The Apache Way_, and hoping that journalists, etc will read that post, before they make their incorrect assumptions. jonathon - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: 2015-08-25 When Speaking as the Chair
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 8:56 PM, Tony Stevenson wrote: > > On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, at 06:09 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: >> [BCC to the AOO PMC] >> >> From the Chair, >> >> It occurs to me that the role of the Chair of the Apache OpenOffice >> Project Management Committee is often seriously over-estimated. There is >> also a level of prestige that may be associated with it that tends to >> give more weight to what I might say than otherwise. > > Why? I really do not get how you might come to that conclusion. As there > is no prestige, or weight to be added when doing day-to-day activities. > >> It is important for me that others understand that for the most part, the >> PMC Chair is no different than another member of the PMC, other >> committers, and the many other contributors in the Apache OpenOffice >> community. > > Exactly! This is in direct contradiction of your opening paragraph. > >> I don't want to have my communications to now be taken with >> more authority than they would were I not the Chair. > > For anyone who knows how the ASF works they will know that this is not > even possible. As you are no more senior, and therefore carry no more > authority. > >> So, when I am speaking as the Chair, I will always introduce my emails >> with "From the Chair." That means I am operating in the context of my >> responsibilities as an Officer of the Foundation. > > Wow. I find this whole line of thinking extremely disheartening and > quite frankly condescending and disingenuous. It borders on the > ludicrous. > Hi Tony, It is always nice to hear the perspective of enlightened Apache Members, but please do recall that the audience of this list is not exclusively made up of such people. We have experience with statements by chairs (and even non-chairs) being misinterpreted by those outside of the project, including the press. This is our actual experience, not some overly-caution supposition. So its seems reasonable to be a bit more explicit about this, for the benefit of those not as enlightened as yourself. Regards, -Rob >> In all other cases, there is no distinction. If it is about PMC matters, >> it must be regarded as only something any PMC member could do or say. > > Again, how does PMC chair change this? It does not. > >> And in all cases, for weighty matters consensus is sought and you will >> usually know how that has or has not been achieved in the usual way that >> [PROPOSAL], [DISCUSS], and [VOTE] mail threads are handled. >> >> Thank you for the support that I have been offered and the trust you have >> placed in me as I undertake this new role. > > I do hope this PMC can see it's way past all this rigmarole and to a > lighterweight, flexible and frankly functional (not combative) future. > >> >> - Dennis > > > Many thanks, > > -- > Tony > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: 2015-08-25 When Speaking as the Chair
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, at 06:09 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > [BCC to the AOO PMC] > > From the Chair, > > It occurs to me that the role of the Chair of the Apache OpenOffice > Project Management Committee is often seriously over-estimated. There is > also a level of prestige that may be associated with it that tends to > give more weight to what I might say than otherwise. Why? I really do not get how you might come to that conclusion. As there is no prestige, or weight to be added when doing day-to-day activities. > It is important for me that others understand that for the most part, the > PMC Chair is no different than another member of the PMC, other > committers, and the many other contributors in the Apache OpenOffice > community. Exactly! This is in direct contradiction of your opening paragraph. > I don't want to have my communications to now be taken with > more authority than they would were I not the Chair. For anyone who knows how the ASF works they will know that this is not even possible. As you are no more senior, and therefore carry no more authority. > So, when I am speaking as the Chair, I will always introduce my emails > with "From the Chair." That means I am operating in the context of my > responsibilities as an Officer of the Foundation. Wow. I find this whole line of thinking extremely disheartening and quite frankly condescending and disingenuous. It borders on the ludicrous. > In all other cases, there is no distinction. If it is about PMC matters, > it must be regarded as only something any PMC member could do or say. Again, how does PMC chair change this? It does not. > And in all cases, for weighty matters consensus is sought and you will > usually know how that has or has not been achieved in the usual way that > [PROPOSAL], [DISCUSS], and [VOTE] mail threads are handled. > > Thank you for the support that I have been offered and the trust you have > placed in me as I undertake this new role. I do hope this PMC can see it's way past all this rigmarole and to a lighterweight, flexible and frankly functional (not combative) future. > > - Dennis Many thanks, -- Tony - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
2015-08-25 When Speaking as the Chair
[BCC to the AOO PMC] >From the Chair, It occurs to me that the role of the Chair of the Apache OpenOffice Project Management Committee is often seriously over-estimated. There is also a level of prestige that may be associated with it that tends to give more weight to what I might say than otherwise. It is important for me that others understand that for the most part, the PMC Chair is no different than another member of the PMC, other committers, and the many other contributors in the Apache OpenOffice community. I don't want to have my communications to now be taken with more authority than they would were I not the Chair. So, when I am speaking as the Chair, I will always introduce my emails with "From the Chair." That means I am operating in the context of my responsibilities as an Officer of the Foundation. In all other cases, there is no distinction. If it is about PMC matters, it must be regarded as only something any PMC member could do or say. And in all cases, for weighty matters consensus is sought and you will usually know how that has or has not been achieved in the usual way that [PROPOSAL], [DISCUSS], and [VOTE] mail threads are handled. Thank you for the support that I have been offered and the trust you have placed in me as I undertake this new role. - Dennis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
