Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box

[Santiago Bosio]

Martin Hollmichel escribió:

Hi Santiago,

I think it's an good plan  to verify localization (and terminology) as 
a early as possible.Are there any technical hurdles to import 
incremental localization updates from pootle and do frequent builds. 
Can this also easily be done for more languages than Spanish ? What 
would be your preferred platform for doing this ?


Martin

Hi Martin:

Perhaps somebody from the l10n project can give better technical 
background about the workflow on translation and why the process doesn't 
admit changes after the localisation CWS has been integrated.


We have been working with Pootle, open language tools, and gsicheck and, 
personally, I consider that string translation changes are of the safest 
changes that can be introduced (provided that they are checked and 
sanitized) without breaking builds or causing problems. And even when we 
considered some translation errors as show-stoppers, their corrections 
weren't accepted in RC stage, and were delayed to next bugfix release.


As I said, we have been doing our own builds, patching the translations 
with the latest snapshot from Pootle, converted to OOo SDF format using 
po2oo, and gsichecking the resulting file. All of it can be done 
automatically, but I see two problems to solve for the "as early as 
possible" scenario:


1. Pootle updates are done only after UI and string freeze. Then these 
new or modified strings are available for a few weeks to be translated, 
before localisation CWS integration, and after that, usually a two week 
period to introduce changes before first RC. Ideally, new or modified 
strings should be inmediately available on Pootle to alleviate the 
translation burden when too many strings were introduced/modified. Also, 
I think translation updates must be accepted in-between RC's when NL 
project leaders ask to do so, and next RC built with the last snapshot 
from Pootle.


2. Weekly devel builds should be done with the complete set of language 
packs, and not only a few of them as it is done currently (I think they 
are FR, DE, IT, JA, pt-BR, etc.) as it will give us the opportunity to 
check our advance (provided that we have early the strings to translate 
on Pootle as I said before).


Regardless of that, on our community we have a specific problem with our 
translation: it has a poor overall quality, and this review process I 
described on my previous e-mail must be carried out outside the current 
translations on Pootle, because if we did otherwise, we can get as a 
result a more confusing translation on the next upcoming releases. So, 
we still need a local box to do our own builds to test the revision 
process until it gets to an acceptable degree of quality to merge the 
changes back to Pootle.


Best regards,

Santiago

PD: I'm cross-posting this message to l10n dev list.

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Re: [dev] Call for Nominations for Community Council Seats

[Thorsten Behrens]

Jan Holesovsky wrote:
> > Again, consider nominating yourself or someone equally interesting. We need
> > energetic contributors who understand the Project and have a sense of its
> > dynamic and potential. The world is changing--we know that-- and to make
> > sure it changes for the better, join us on the Council.
> 
> After having heard the sad news of John's rejection of his nomination to the 
> council, please let me nominate Thorsten Behrens as a Product Development 
> Representative.
> 
Hi Kendy, all,

first off, let me join you in regretting John not running for a
second term, he has set the bar very high for this job.

I won't reach the standards he's set, but at least strive to - in a
word, I accept and confirm this nomination.

Feeling honoured,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [dev] Call for Nominations for Community Council Seats

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi,

On Monday 01 of March 2010 15:01:29 Louis Suarez-Potts wrote:

> Again, consider nominating yourself or someone equally interesting. We need
> energetic contributors who understand the Project and have a sense of its
> dynamic and potential. The world is changing--we know that-- and to make
> sure it changes for the better, join us on the Council.

After having heard the sad news of John's rejection of his nomination to the 
council, please let me nominate Thorsten Behrens as a Product Development 
Representative.

Even though he primarily contributes code, his reach goes far beyond that - 
you can see him mentoring students and helping the Education project to be 
successful.  You can meet him on important events like Fosdem, or Cebit, 
helping running the booth, and talking to people about the strengths of 
OpenOffice.org.  You can remember his drive to improve the OOo quality by 
unit testing.  And much more, search the mailing lists of various OOo 
projects :-)

Please support Thorsten as a candidate, he has already proven how much he 
cares about the OpenOffice.org product, not only the code.

Thank you,
Kendy

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Re: [dev] inettype.cxx: suspected problem

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 03/15/10 15:39, Terrence Enger wrote:

If I am reading the code correctly, the function uses its static
bool bChecked to limit the sequence verification to the first
time it is called.  However, the verification would seem to be
good for all of the arrays of constants.  seekEntry is called
with three different arrays to search (aStaticTypeNameMap,
aStaticExtensionMap, aStaticPresentationMap).

Is this a problem?  Is it worth fixing?


Ha, good point!  Fixed now as 
.


Thanks,
-Stephan

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[dev] inettype.cxx: suspected problem

[Terrence Enger]

Greetings,

File svl/source/misc/inettype.cxx defines function seekEntry,
which does a binary search on an array of MediaTypeEntry passed
as its second argument.  In a non-production build, it verifies
that the passed array is in sequence by (since cws sb121) value
of m_pTypeName.  I take this sequence verification to be a
protection against an editing error in the maintenance of the
arrays of constants defined in the file.

If I am reading the code correctly, the function uses its static
bool bChecked to limit the sequence verification to the first
time it is called.  However, the verification would seem to be
good for all of the arrays of constants.  seekEntry is called
with three different arrays to search (aStaticTypeNameMap,
aStaticExtensionMap, aStaticPresentationMap).

Is this a problem?  Is it worth fixing?

Cheers,
Terry.



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Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box

[Thorsten Behrens]

Martin Hollmichel wrote:
> I think it's an good plan  to verify localization (and terminology)
> as a early as possible.Are there any technical hurdles to import
> incremental localization updates from pootle and do frequent builds.
> Can this also easily be done for more languages than Spanish ? What
> would be your preferred platform for doing this ?
> 
From what I've learned in a previous discussion, it's Linux, and
it's about getting binaries w/o being able to commit to a cws - as
such a very supportable request, I'd be in favor of it. :)

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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Re: [dev] A Brand Refresh for OpenOffice.org (was Re: Changes to Site/Product Elements due to Oracle Acquisition)

[Cédric Bosdonnat]

Hi John,

There are a lot of ideas around Writer... but coding hands are needed to
implement them ;) my nickname on IRC is cbosdonnat.

Regards,
--
Cedric

On Mon, 2010-03-15 at 12:24 +0200, Ян Программист wrote:
> Well, man. Thanks for answering. At last someone from community stoped
> ignoring my mailing list posts. I wanted to ask to get into a
> discussion. Maybe threw IRC. But mailing list would be also OK. I have
> some ideas that can be develped threw Writer plug-in(s) John
> 
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Re: [dev] A Brand Refresh for OpenOffice.org (was Re: Changes to Site/Product Elements due to Oracle Acquisition)

[Ян Программист]

Well, man. Thanks for answering. At last someone from community stoped
ignoring my mailing list posts. I wanted to ask to get into a
discussion. Maybe threw IRC. But mailing list would be also OK. I have
some ideas that can be develped threw Writer plug-in(s) John

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Re: [dev] Re: Coding St{andards|yle}

[Thorsten Behrens]

I wrote:
> [...] iff the native ints are desirable [...] then let's make sure
> that first off this dearly missed "what every computer scientist 
> should know about integer math" page is written. ;)
> 
That's of course nonsense. This page needs to be written
unconditionally. :)

-- Thorsten


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[dev] openoffice-sdk

[Andrea Chiumenti]

Hello,
as a Gentoo Linux user, I'm having some problems getting the sdk from
http://download.openoffice.org/sdk/

The problem is that there is only rpm.sh and deb.sh

I've an x86-64 and a simple tar.gz or tar.bz2 would be really better.

Couldn't you provide the sdk in such a form ?

Regards,
kiuma

Re: [dev] Re: Coding St{andards|yle}

[Thorsten Behrens]

Herbert Duerr wrote:
> I think that criticizing old rules that cause problems today by
> causing bigger, slower, limited code which introduces extra
> maintenance burdens and extra bugs from too tight types and signed-/
> unsigned issues is right on topic. Is this not the topic we are
> talking about here?
> 
Hi Herbert,

well, again just very slightly missing my point - see below ;)

> >[...] to permit ints and longs for everything
> 
> Who wants that? If you need fixed-width types you need them... but
> even then using typedefs or or packing them into classes is often
> better.
> 
> Anyway, I've stated my points. And I have a lot of experience to
> back them up. With that said I'm getting out of this discussion, I
> just don't have enough time.
> 
Sorry to hear, maybe someone else is picking this up then - anyway:
so your suggestion is to use the native C ints by default, and
fixed-width types whenever there's a (recognized) need? And forcing
those fixed-width types into actual classes doing overflow,
underflow, and lossy conversion checking in non-pro builds?

If the answer is yes, then I think I have a decidedly bad feeling
about this - somewhat contrasting your experience mentioned above:
_everytime_ someone (preferrably exploiters) is putting integer math
to its limits inside OOo, there are bugs. Tons of them. Because 
preventing overflows or truncation is non-trivial, even with fixed 
ranges. Getting this right with only weak-relationed native int
sizes is even harder. So my (slightly amended) position on that
would be: iff the native ints are desirable (please scratch that
"bigger, slower ... code" from the first paragraph - that's truly a
red herring. For 99.9% of OOo's codebase), then let's make sure that
first off this dearly missed "what every computer scientist should
know about integer math" page is written. ;)

P.S.: case in point - X11 wire protocol: 
  struct _xPoint { INT16 x, y; };
X11 api:
  struct XPoint { short x, y; };

Overflow handling: burdened on the app. Talk about transparency, and
POLS. XPoint being 'int' would have even been ok-ish, from an
abstraction perspective - 'short' is just a misguided attempt to
expose the INT16.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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[dev] Transforming the Hyperlink bar in a websearch toolbar

[Camille Moulin]

Dear OOo Devs,

Could anyone give me a rough estimate of the effort that would be
necessary to turn the Hyperlink bar in a "regular" Web search toolbar
i.e. a toolbar that behaves like other toolbars in View > Toolbars and
that would just have a the search field and the search button of the
current Hyperlink bar.
(more details on why I'm asking :
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/User:Camillem/MyDrafts#Web_search_Toolbar
)
Thanks,
Camille

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Re: [dev] OpenOffice bootstrapping on Red Hat 4

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 03/12/10 21:13, K S wrote:

Caused by: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError:
com.sun.star.lib.connections.pipe.PipeConnection.createJNI(Ljava/lang/String;)I


That class tries to load libjpipe.so JNI library.  The most typical 
problem with that nowadays is that either your OOo (and hence 
libjpipe.so) is 32 bit and the Java process you start is 64 bit, or vice 
versa.  At least with recent Sun JVMs, you can control whether the Java 
process is 32 or 64 bit via -d32 resp. -d64 command line switches.


-Stephan

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Re: [dev] Re: Coding St{andards|yle}

[Herbert Duerr]

Hi,


much of what Herbert writes is beside my point


I think that criticizing old rules that cause problems today by  
causing bigger, slower, limited code which introduces extra  
maintenance burdens and extra bugs from too tight types and signed-/ 
unsigned issues is right on topic. Is this not the topic we are  
talking about here?



[...] to permit ints and longs for everything


Who wants that? If you need fixed-width types you need them... but  
even then using typedefs or or packing them into classes is often  
better.


Anyway, I've stated my points. And I have a lot of experience to back  
them up. With that said I'm getting out of this discussion, I just  
don't have enough time.


---
Herbert Duerr
du...@sun.com

Registered Office: Sun Microsystems GmbH
Sonnenallee 1, D-85551 Kirchheim-Heimstetten
Commercial register of the Local Court of Munich: HRB 161028
Managing Directors: Thomas Schroeder
Chairman of the Supervisory Board: Martin Haering

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Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box

[Martin Hollmichel]

Pavel Janík schrieb:

Hi,

On 15.3.2010, at 7:56, Martin Hollmichel wrote:

I think it's an good plan  to verify localization (and terminology) 
as a early as possible.Are there any technical hurdles to import 
incremental localization updates from pootle and do frequent builds. 
Can this also easily be done for more languages than Spanish ? What 
would be your preferred platform for doing this ?


I'd like to see platform that allows:

- to merge all available strings from all tools (Pootle, static URL, 
...) to every milestone

- build in all languages for all platforms, every milestone
- publish all of them

It is much easier to let computers work then let people think if they 
need or want a build and remember and change their decision everytime 
they decise to change their mind.
that'a what I have in mind as well. I know that builds und their 
publishing can be automated I don't know enough about pootle and don't 
know what you mean by "static URL" but it sounds like a plan,


Martin



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Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box

[Pavel Janík]

Hi,

On 15.3.2010, at 7:56, Martin Hollmichel wrote:

I think it's an good plan  to verify localization (and terminology)  
as a early as possible.Are there any technical hurdles to import  
incremental localization updates from pootle and do frequent  
builds. Can this also easily be done for more languages than  
Spanish ? What would be your preferred platform for doing this ?


I'd like to see platform that allows:

- to merge all available strings from all tools (Pootle, static  
URL, ...) to every milestone

- build in all languages for all platforms, every milestone
- publish all of them

It is much easier to let computers work then let people think if they  
need or want a build and remember and change their decision everytime  
they decise to change their mind.

--
Pavel Janík



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Re: [dev] Spanish NL Community requests for funding help on acquiring a local build box

[Martin Hollmichel]

Hi Santiago,

I think it's an good plan  to verify localization (and terminology) as a 
early as possible.Are there any technical hurdles to import incremental 
localization updates from pootle and do frequent builds. Can this also 
easily be done for more languages than Spanish ? What would be your 
preferred platform for doing this ?


Martin

Santiago Bosio schrieb:

Hi all,

I'm collaborating with our project co-lead Alexandro Colorado on a 
complete revision of our spanish UI and Help content translations, 
because we have detected many errors and terminology inconsistencies 
across UI elements and mostly between UI and Help content strings.


We have estimated that our plan will extend over some of the next 
upcoming releases, so we won't work on the current translation, 
because it will render even more confusing strings on the next 
releases, but we will make a separate revision, and integrate changes 
later, when the process is completed.


For that, we need to generate on demand builds to test our progress. 
So far I've managed to make my own builds, but my hardware is a little 
too old, and the build process takes roughly 18 hours to complete.


We are seeking to acquire a new build box (quadcore duo with 4 Gb RAM) 
in order to speed up these builds.


We have estimated a cost of 1000 USD, and we are in conditions to fund 
half of this amount from our project resources.


Alexandro told me that the dev project had also some money to help 
fund works related to the project, and that we could ask here to see 
if we cant get help for our needs. We know our problem is more related 
to l10n than to a development task, but we don't have other places to 
ask for this.


So I submit to your kind consideration this request, to help us 
acquire our own build box.


Best regards,

Santiago Bosio


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