Re: [OSM-dev] Working with OSM data with less or no metadata

[Simon Poole]

Am 16.02.2018 um 14:24 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>
>
> I don't share the interpretation that OSMF processes personal data
> (besides the e-mail addresses and maybe IP addresses used by its
> contributors, which are neither distributed nor public), because I
> don't think that our mappers can be identified with the data and
> metadata of their contributions. I.E. they are not identifiable
> natural persons because they cannot be identified, directly or
> indirectly.

Naturally we have the case of the licence change which proved the exact
opposite.

But that doesn't matter in any case as the GDPR does not require that
what qualifies as personal data be directly associated with an
individual by personal name (which seems to be what you are thinking
of), I quote "an identifiable natural person is one who can be
identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an
identifier such as a name, an identification number, location data, an
online identifier or to one or more factors specific to the physical,
physiological, genetic, mental, economic, cultural or social identity of
that natural person;"
> Yes, if you know who they are you can see what they did, but you
> cannot see from what they did who they are. At best you can guess, but
> it only works if you have additional information that the person (or
> someone else) would have to provide you with. What we have according
> to these definitions is "pseudonymisation" (because OSMF has the
> sign-up e-mail address associated with the user number, and is
> therefor in a position to make personal data from the contributions).
>
> If someone tries to reverse the pseudonymisation of our contributor's
> data and metadata, it would be this person to be in breach of the law.

Pseudonymisation is one of the data protection safe guards proposed by
the GDPR, use of it does not make the data itself less "Personal Data"
see Recital 26 /"Personal data which have undergone
//pseudonymisation//, which could be attributed to a natural person by
the use of additional information should be considered to be information
on an identifiable natural person". /, it just may make some processing
possible of such data that otherwise would not be permissible.

>
> An exception might occur in very rare cases in areas where the
> contributor is the only person being there within a big distance, i.e.
> extremely remote areas, and probably not in the European Union.

Again, see above, we know first hand how many of our contributors can be
identified alone from display name, location of initial edits, other
hints and so on. Not quite sure why you are in denial about this as you
were present when that took place.

Simon

>
> For reference,
>
> General Data Protection Regulation
> https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/data-protection-eu_en
>
>
> Cheers,
> Martin



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Re: [OSM-dev] Working with OSM data with less or no metadata

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-02-16 13:37 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole :

> The intellectual property rights (I re-quote: "that is restricted by
> copyright, database right or any related right") have nothing to do with
> the subject at hand, the data privacy rights of the individual data
> subject. As a consequence the contributor terms have no bearing, in any
> form, at all, even in an alternative universe, on the matter.
>


I really have no idea what "related right" means, not even if it relates to
"copyright and database right" or to "Contents".




>
> If you look at our recommendation document you will note that we believe
> that we currently do not have consent as defined by the GDPR for the
> processing we do. As a consequence we will likely recommend  asking for
> explicit consent somewhere in the sign up process (from a content pov this
> already exists in the privacy policy but it needs to be re-jigged to work
> as part of the terms of use that will have to be explicitly agreed to for
> account creation).
>
> However having valid consent for current processing does not remove the
> issue that Paul has pointed out (again) that consent can be redrawn and
> that such a withdrawal applies retroactively. The main cause why we one way
> or the other should change what data we distribute to the general public.
>


by asking explicitly we would confirm we believe that privacy rights are
relevant, and it could indeed become more of a problem as people revoke.

You are refering to this document:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EjccQNm3awl7eQlk1jGYyoGJVavJG_bEfX8iCMEuC9U/edit#

The relevant paragraph is "Does the OSMF process ‘personal data’?"

I don't share the interpretation that OSMF processes personal data (besides
the e-mail addresses and maybe IP addresses used by its contributors, which
are neither distributed nor public), because I don't think that our mappers
can be identified with the data and metadata of their contributions. I.E.
they are not identifiable natural persons because they cannot be
identified, directly or indirectly. Yes, if you know who they are you can
see what they did, but you cannot see from what they did who they are. At
best you can guess, but it only works if you have additional information
that the person (or someone else) would have to provide you with. What we
have according to these definitions is "pseudonymisation" (because OSMF has
the sign-up e-mail address associated with the user number, and is therefor
in a position to make personal data from the contributions).

If someone tries to reverse the pseudonymisation of our contributor's data
and metadata, it would be this person to be in breach of the law.

An exception might occur in very rare cases in areas where the contributor
is the only person being there within a big distance, i.e. extremely remote
areas, and probably not in the European Union.

For reference,

General Data Protection Regulation
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/data-protection-eu_en


Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-dev] Working with OSM data with less or no metadata

[Simon Poole]

Am 16.02.2018 um 13:09 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> 2018-02-16 0:04 GMT+01:00 Paul Norman  >:
>
> On 2/14/2018 8:17 AM, Roland Olbricht wrote:
>
>
> - How about simply asking the users for consent? We could then
> -- make a clear-cut last complete history dump before the date
> -- start with a planet dump without history before that date
> afterwards that then accumulates history only from users that
> have given consent
>
>
> Consent is revocable. If we didn't have to deal with people
> revoking consent and account deletion requests, it would all be
> much easier.
>
>
>
>
> We are asking for "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive,
> perpetual, irrevocable licence to do any act that is restricted by
> copyright, database right or any related right over anything within
> the Contents, whether in the original medium or any other." Do you
> have reason to believe the "irrevocable" part is invalid?
No, because you can give an irrevocable licence in intellectual property
matters (that is a rough generalisation, I know, as certain
jurisdictions actually limit that).
>
> "Contents" means "data and/or any other content (collectively,
> “Contents”)" [which the user contributes] "to the geo-database of the
> OpenStreetMap project"
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms
>
> Account deletions are another issue, but don't seem complicated:
> remove the human readable account alias and e-mail forwarding and
> prevent it from editing.
>
The intellectual property rights (I re-quote: "that is restricted by
copyright, database right or any related right") have nothing to do with
the subject at hand, the data privacy rights of the individual data
subject. As a consequence the contributor terms have no bearing, in any
form, at all, even in an alternative universe, on the matter.

If you look at our recommendation document you will note that we believe
that we currently do not have consent as defined by the GDPR for the
processing we do. As a consequence we will likely recommend  asking for
explicit consent somewhere in the sign up process (from a content pov
this already exists in the privacy policy but it needs to be re-jigged
to work as part of the terms of use that will have to be explicitly
agreed to for account creation).

However having valid consent for current processing does not remove the
issue that Paul has pointed out (again) that consent can be redrawn and
that such a withdrawal applies retroactively. The main cause why we one
way or the other should change what data we distribute to the general
public.

Simon

> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
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> dev@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-dev] Working with OSM data with less or no metadata

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-02-16 0:04 GMT+01:00 Paul Norman :

> On 2/14/2018 8:17 AM, Roland Olbricht wrote:
>
>>
>> - How about simply asking the users for consent? We could then
>> -- make a clear-cut last complete history dump before the date
>> -- start with a planet dump without history before that date afterwards
>> that then accumulates history only from users that have given consent
>>
>
> Consent is revocable. If we didn't have to deal with people revoking
> consent and account deletion requests, it would all be much easier.




We are asking for "a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual,
irrevocable licence to do any act that is restricted by copyright, database
right or any related right over anything within the Contents, whether in
the original medium or any other." Do you have reason to believe the
"irrevocable" part is invalid?

"Contents" means "data and/or any other content (collectively, “Contents”)"
[which the user contributes] "to the geo-database of the OpenStreetMap
project"
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Terms

Account deletions are another issue, but don't seem complicated: remove the
human readable account alias and e-mail forwarding and prevent it from
editing.

Cheers,
Martin
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