Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
2008/9/18 Brian Quinion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Adding icons need to be done careful moderation and adding any significant number runs the risk of making the default map unsuitable for some purposes (for instance a hotel chain would not want other hotels appearing on their maps!). Or it could be better. I can display all POIs except hotels, take a screenshot, then add just 1 icon(or company logo) for my hotel. I seem to have misunderstood something, and thought someone suggested having multiple layers of POIs. Slowing down to type and perhaps that suggestion made, sorry if it's an outrageous one. But your icon set looks like it could be easily split into a few layers, brown layer(food/pubs) etc. I also really like the transparency on the beer icons and generally. I'm also not particularly happy with the placement of the icons - I'm currently working on a patch to mapnik to allow icons to be 'nudged' into clear space to improve the cartographical result - I'm also trying translucency and various other effects. Suggestions welcome. That would be a brilliant patch, something I think we all want as it will avoid the need to move the node far enough for the way. Sometimes/people will wait a week to look at the render in case they didn't keep nodes/ways far enough apart. I can also think of other alternatives too. For instance we could provide 2 mapnik layers (one naked, one with icons) or try to find some way to overlay individual symbols browser side without too much of a performance hit. I wonder if the standard map user is happy with switching between layers, as I've also wondered if people spot/click the + to find the osmarender and cycle map layers. It's interesting to see the work people are doing on styling the map dta. Much better than my quick mucking around with Kosmos: http://www.livingwithdragons.com/hampton If you zoom in on 'High Street' near 'Arundel Close Open Space', you can see how work needs to be done for a row of shops. Most of the names end up appearing over the wrong icon. Second half of this blog post is about that map: http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2008/09/murphys-law-hamptons-map -- Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
sorry - long post, verging on brain storming... I seem to have misunderstood something, and thought someone suggested having multiple layers of POIs. Slowing down to type and perhaps that suggestion made, sorry if it's an outrageous one. But your icon set looks like it could be easily split into a few layers, brown layer(food/pubs) etc. I also really like the transparency on the beer icons and generally. While having lots of layers in great in theory I think that there are several practical problems to do with both server side storage, increases in data transfer, client side rendering speed and overloading the interface with too many options. You can probably see the client side rendering speed problem fairly easily on the dutch cycle site that Rob provided a link to: http://www.openfietskaart.nl/?zoom=14lat=52.36713lon=4.89568layers=BFTTT turn on 3 or more layers and then try moving the map - the extra time to download 3 times as many tiles adds a noticeable extra latency (on my system anyway). The storage problem and bandwidth issues would be similar although more easily solved / ignored. There is also the problem of generating layers in such a way that they don't overlap - tricky because mapnik isn't really setup to taken account of things that are not rendered - so I think that probably everything (except the icons) would have to be rendered using an alternative transparent style sheet so that the icons ended up in the right place. Urrrg. Of course we could just ignore the overlapping problems :-( The alternative is to do the poi client side like: http://www.lenz-online.de/cgi-bin/osm/osmpoinit.pl/ (which unfortunately seems to be broken at the moment, for me anyway) Again there is the overlap problem, made even more difficult by being client side. Client side latency is still a problem for loading the extra icon location data, as is over complicating the interface. There is also a new problem which is that icons for features that are already rendered by on the mapnik layer get in the way / are redundant. Layers just seem to be tricky... so we are left with the current mapnik / osm.xml seems to be a compromise between all the various options that showcases what can be done with the data to produce a nice map. Unfortunately it suffers from the standard problems with all compromises - some people want more detail/icons (like myself) some people want less (I remember a post requesting a version without pub symbols). And at the moment rolling your own mapnik server / osm.xml is not exactly trivial especially if you want extra icons not in the standard definition. (as an aside, is direct usage of the osm title servers (i.e. c.tile.openstreetmap.org) by other projects/organisations encouraged or discouraged? I'm never quite sure and it makes a difference as to the purpose of the mapnik layer...) Personally I think that the solution might be 2 versions of the mapnik layer: mapnik-min and mapnik-max (preferably both generated from the same template). Of course this assumes that the server has the resources to cope with caching 2 sets of tiles (does it?) and that anyone except me things this is a reasonable idea! Such a move might also be basis for trying to find some way to split up the existing osm.xml which as Steve Chilton mentioned is now well over 5000 lines and finding a way to make it easier to customise osm.xml for roll your own maps without having to branch off completely on your own. -- Brian ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Brian Quinion schreef: Please do let me know what you think! Just another reason to have 'layers'. :) Next to that it looks cool :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkjQrFIACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2d5wCghC75sTtm1ENxqJPYMONKH5Ru /J4AniJM5a0l6JYmSocznRSfhJMp72Xx =72U+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
On a related note - does anyone know who admins the live server, or how changes to the mapnik style sheet are made live? Is there someone in charge or is it just a case of committing the changes to svn and it all happens automatically? -- Brian ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
Steve Chilton is cartographer-in-chief/benevolent dictator for the Mapnik stylesheet - that's how it keeps looking so good. See http://trac.openstreetmap.org/log/applications/rendering/mapnik/osm.xml Best discuss any proposed changes with him before committing. Ah - sounds like I guessed right to start with, unfortunately I emailed him a week ago and got no response... my suspicion is that my email is probably sat it a spam folder somewhere. So Steve, if you are out there please get in touch! :-) -- Brian ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
2008/9/17 Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Brian Quinion schreef: Please do let me know what you think! Just another reason to have 'layers'. :) Next to that it looks cool :) you mean like our dutch cyclemap ? http://www.openfietskaart.nl/?zoom=14lat=52.36713lon=4.89568layers=BFTTT ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
2008/9/17 Brian Quinion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just another reason to have 'layers'. :) Next to that it looks cool :) you mean like our dutch cyclemap ? http://www.openfietskaart.nl/?zoom=14lat=52.36713lon=4.89568layers=BFTTT That looks really nice and provides very nice functionality. Unfortunately it does illustrate the problem with using an overlay layer - loading all the different layers significantly slows down the display. BTW - Do you have any idea what the storage requirements are for the symbols layer compared with the normal mapnik layer? I'm assuming it is a lot less, but I'm wondering how much less! hmm not easy to say, because we render kind of on-the-fly.. and we erase 2 day old tiles each day.. so can't give a exact number.. but the transparent way layer for the netherlands was 1.2gig last time i checked you can do the multiplication for the world ;) however the poi tiles are much smaller of course Rob ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 4:19 PM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On a cartographical note: the icons look good and consistent, and work well per se. Cheers! However, IMeversoHO the result of adding this number of icons - certainly not a reflection on your icon design - is that the map becomes a little too cluttered. It loses the clean look of our default Mapnik cartography and that, I think, is a shame. The automatic placement of point labels over ways tends to 'break up' the ways, making them harder to comprehend at a glance: Surrey Street in your osm-sample2.png is a good example. Actually I agree! Adding icons need to be done careful moderation and adding any significant number runs the risk of making the default map unsuitable for some purposes (for instance a hotel chain would not want other hotels appearing on their maps!). I'm also not particularly happy with the placement of the icons - I'm currently working on a patch to mapnik to allow icons to be 'nudged' into clear space to improve the cartographical result - I'm also trying translucency and various other effects. Suggestions welcome. Stefan de Konink alluded to the ideal solution in his posting - just another reason to have 'layers'. :). If these icons weren't visible by default, but were available as a selectable overlay, that'd be utterly fantastic. This sounds like a good alternative - but if anything it involves more work and more server side changes than just adding the symbols (which is quite a bit of work in itself!). I'm happy to work on something like that - but only if I know it is going to be used at the end so this is in the way of a feeling out to see what people think. I can also think of other alternatives too. For instance we could provide 2 mapnik layers (one naked, one with icons) or try to find some way to overlay individual symbols browser side without too much of a performance hit. -- Brian ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] [Patch] Experimental extra symbols for mapnik layer
Hi, I've created a patch to add extra amenity and tourist icons to osm-template.xml from the svg-twotone set of shared symbols that I recently added to svn. The hope is to produce a consistent style so this patch not only adds new symbols but also replaces some of the existing ones. I've not yet added all the symbols from the icon set to the osm.xml file but I'd like to get some feedback on what people think before I spend too much more time on this. I've produced a couple of screen shots to give a quick impression of what the results looks like. You can see them here: http://www.sjjb.co.uk/mapicons/osm-sample1.png http://www.sjjb.co.uk/mapicons/osm-sample2.png The two samples only include a few of the icons added but should give a general idea. Alternatively if anyone has somewhere I could put a demo copy of the config for people to look at that would be very helpful - my local development server just isn't up the job! The patch to osm-template.xml is available here: http://www.sjjb.co.uk/mapicons/osm-template-map-symbols.patch In addition to applying the patch you will also need to run the generatemapniksymbols.sh script in applications/share/map-icons/svg-twotone to generate the required png files. Please do let me know what you think! Cheers, -- Brian ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
