Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
On Friday, December 02, 2011 12:56:02 PM Jaak Laineste wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? FYI, there is a Mobile Merkaartor in it's source repo: https://gitorious.org/merkaartor/main/trees/master/mobilemerk No idea on it's status, though. I remember seeing something about a Merkaartor port to Lighthouse (Qt for Android) but can't find it now. -- Samat K Jain http://samat.org/ ▪ GPG: 0x4A456FBA I don't know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. — Albert Einstein (267) This e-mail is: [ ] bloggable [x] ask first [ ] private ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
My own experience with Vespucci on phone is that with first touch I moved accidentally some node and there is no undo feature, so it was unusable for me and I did not go much futher. Another major drawback is no (proper) preset system, best if JOSM preset XMLs could be reused. But overall it might be better approach to fix these things than porting full JOSM or Merkaator to Android and find out that in reality they are not usable on the go. There are actually two different usage modes of tablets: as big-screen portable device, used right in the field; or as a slim laptop replacement, used in the office. For the second case porting of full editor (with some touch-specific tweaks, not all have full keyboard for tablet) would make perfect sense. And for the field you need offline, basic map drafting, GPS track saving, geotagged image storage: more like digital version walking papers, not map data editor. Totally different things. Vespucci is somewhere in the middle and as it often happens with middle way approach, does not serve none of the cases really well. So I would have two questions: a) Would there be enough users for full editor (Merkaator in particular, as it should be technically easier to port) on Android netbooks? This would be for office, not so much for field use. b) Would there be enough interest for new Walking Papers for Android or iPad (and which of them) app? This would have following key capabilities: - preload offline background map. Simplified BW style like in Walking Papers, also WMS extracts. - drawing draft lines and notes on top of that, saves it as GPX which needs postprocessing on JOSM - easy graphical tag editing with presets, saves OSM changes, can be postprocessed with JSOM, but in simpler cases good enough for direct upload. - save GPS track - maybe take and save photos, with geotags - no graphical way editing, only point moving for standalone nodes (like in MapZen POI collector) - scalable also for phones, but best with tablets Jaak 2011/12/2 Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com: I would suggest looking at helping to improve Vesupcci. It already does several things mentioned here and I think a few other things are at least theoretically on the roadmap. It is certainly usable on my Samsung Galaxy S. Editing geometry is kind of tricky and I ususally end up going back in JOSM and fixing things after I upload from Vespucci. But I don't see many options to change that on a small touch screen. Tablets might work better. Having an orthogonalize button might be neat though. One outstanding feature request is to save to a file that you can open in JOSM and edit before uploading. It has tagging presets built in although they are not graphical... it just offers autocomplete suggestions for tag keys and values that it knows about. So you have to know which tag you want, it just helps you fill it in quicker. But it does have a button that will send you to the wiki for the selected key. It also guesses the road name when you add an addr:street tag. In my experience it does fairly well. It displays Bing imagery by default but has several other options. It even does some minimal validation - highlighting streets with no name. Toby 2011/12/2 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: Well I've got Merkaator running on my OpenPandora handhelt (Angstrome Linux) and noticed that this kind of editors (let's call them GIS centred) isn't what will work on mobile devices in the field. I used osm2go as well and it's realy clother to my needs but is unfortunatly abandoned and currently not that good for tapping devices. On the other sides regular Smartphones are just to small (virtual keypad) so you might need a real hardware keyboard as the Pandora offers, to add streetnames etc. What in my opinion will work esp. on Tablets is: -easy to use download data (select area on map, not entering them numericaly) -ultimate reduced UI (focused on adding more attributes and just POIs, not for complex geometry, as this is best done with a mouse) -mission schemas that customize the layout/workflow: Let's say you want to add housenumbers, so you tap on the house. The editor suggests the next road and already predicts the housenumber by what you entered to house before). Another usecase might be to add 3D featuers, where a wizzard presents you different shapes of roofs, color table, ... -ability to take georeferenced audio-notes, photos and embedd them immediately Yes a HTML5 might do the job and as Josh noticed, this will simplify the deployment for mobile platforms. On the other hand I would really suggest offline editing. But this are just ideas...would be great if anybody would give it a try to see if this might work :) bye Matthias Am 02.12.2011 14:26, schrieb Josh Doe: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Ian Deesian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Lainestejaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
Am 04.12.2011 15:46, schrieb Cartinus: On Sunday 04 December 2011 12:02:58 Jaak Laineste wrote: So I would have two questions: a) Would there be enough users for full editor (Merkaator in particular, as it should be technically easier to port) on Android netbooks? This would be for office, not so much for field use. No interest in this. I prefer to do the real mapping on a 24 screen and with a real mouse. Sorry, but same for me. - Complex tasks are better at home b) Would there be enough interest for new Walking Papers for Android or iPad (and which of them) app? This would have following key capabilities: - preload offline background map. Simplified BW style like in Walking Papers, also WMS extracts. - drawing draft lines and notes on top of that, saves it as GPX which needs postprocessing on JOSM - easy graphical tag editing with presets, saves OSM changes, can be postprocessed with JSOM, but in simpler cases good enough for direct upload. - save GPS track - maybe take and save photos, with geotags - no graphical way editing, only point moving for standalone nodes (like in MapZen POI collector) - scalable also for phones, but best with tablets Very interested in this. After I got my tablet I looked for an electronic walking-papers, but I haven't found any (or combination of) app(s) that works for me. Well but this dosn't brings the pros, that you don't need to reedit this notes? But of course this is something that would be useful, too :) bye Matthias ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
[OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? -- Jaak ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Laineste jaak.laine...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? Jaak, Porting JOSM to Android would be an interesting academic task, but several problems lead me to believe it would not be useful for general use: - java.awt is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's rendering engine would have to be completely re-written. - javax.swing is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's UI system would have to be completely re-written. - JOSM's UI is based on menus and keyboard shortcuts. These don't have good analogs in Android and would have to be re-thought. I'd much rather see the time spent solving these problems put towards a general purpose editor that is specifically designed for a tablet. Maybe something general enough that an iOS and Android developer could use the same design with platform-specific tweaks. ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Laineste jaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? Jaak, Porting JOSM to Android would be an interesting academic task, but several problems lead me to believe it would not be useful for general use: - java.awt is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's rendering engine would have to be completely re-written. - javax.swing is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's UI system would have to be completely re-written. - JOSM's UI is based on menus and keyboard shortcuts. These don't have good analogs in Android and would have to be re-thought. I'd much rather see the time spent solving these problems put towards a general purpose editor that is specifically designed for a tablet. Maybe something general enough that an iOS and Android developer could use the same design with platform-specific tweaks. All valid points, however it may be useful to reuse much of the non-GUI code for handling file loading, validation, search, etc. Or perhaps it may be more worthwhile to write a nice HTML5 app that can work on iOS, Android, and the web. I think the hardest thing is coming up with a design that works well on tablets. I think first and foremost it should offer a simple and robust way to edit POIs. A good preset system is a must (share with Potlatch2 or JOSM, don't create a new one!). Allow ways to be created both by tapping nodes and drawing (with simplification algorithm). And definitely have online and offline modes. I'd encourage you to create a wiki article to try and define what should go in to a tablet app. -Josh ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
Well I've got Merkaator running on my OpenPandora handhelt (Angstrome Linux) and noticed that this kind of editors (let's call them GIS centred) isn't what will work on mobile devices in the field. I used osm2go as well and it's realy clother to my needs but is unfortunatly abandoned and currently not that good for tapping devices. On the other sides regular Smartphones are just to small (virtual keypad) so you might need a real hardware keyboard as the Pandora offers, to add streetnames etc. What in my opinion will work esp. on Tablets is: -easy to use download data (select area on map, not entering them numericaly) -ultimate reduced UI (focused on adding more attributes and just POIs, not for complex geometry, as this is best done with a mouse) -mission schemas that customize the layout/workflow: Let's say you want to add housenumbers, so you tap on the house. The editor suggests the next road and already predicts the housenumber by what you entered to house before). Another usecase might be to add 3D featuers, where a wizzard presents you different shapes of roofs, color table, ... -ability to take georeferenced audio-notes, photos and embedd them immediately Yes a HTML5 might do the job and as Josh noticed, this will simplify the deployment for mobile platforms. On the other hand I would really suggest offline editing. But this are just ideas...would be great if anybody would give it a try to see if this might work :) bye Matthias Am 02.12.2011 14:26, schrieb Josh Doe: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Ian Deesian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Lainestejaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? Jaak, Porting JOSM to Android would be an interesting academic task, but several problems lead me to believe it would not be useful for general use: - java.awt is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's rendering engine would have to be completely re-written. - javax.swing is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's UI system would have to be completely re-written. - JOSM's UI is based on menus and keyboard shortcuts. These don't have good analogs in Android and would have to be re-thought. I'd much rather see the time spent solving these problems put towards a general purpose editor that is specifically designed for a tablet. Maybe something general enough that an iOS and Android developer could use the same design with platform-specific tweaks. All valid points, however it may be useful to reuse much of the non-GUI code for handling file loading, validation, search, etc. Or perhaps it may be more worthwhile to write a nice HTML5 app that can work on iOS, Android, and the web. I think the hardest thing is coming up with a design that works well on tablets. I think first and foremost it should offer a simple and robust way to edit POIs. A good preset system is a must (share with Potlatch2 or JOSM, don't create a new one!). Allow ways to be created both by tapping nodes and drawing (with simplification algorithm). And definitely have online and offline modes. I'd encourage you to create a wiki article to try and define what should go in to a tablet app. -Josh ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
I would suggest looking at helping to improve Vesupcci. It already does several things mentioned here and I think a few other things are at least theoretically on the roadmap. It is certainly usable on my Samsung Galaxy S. Editing geometry is kind of tricky and I ususally end up going back in JOSM and fixing things after I upload from Vespucci. But I don't see many options to change that on a small touch screen. Tablets might work better. Having an orthogonalize button might be neat though. One outstanding feature request is to save to a file that you can open in JOSM and edit before uploading. It has tagging presets built in although they are not graphical... it just offers autocomplete suggestions for tag keys and values that it knows about. So you have to know which tag you want, it just helps you fill it in quicker. But it does have a button that will send you to the wiki for the selected key. It also guesses the road name when you add an addr:street tag. In my experience it does fairly well. It displays Bing imagery by default but has several other options. It even does some minimal validation - highlighting streets with no name. Toby 2011/12/2 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: Well I've got Merkaator running on my OpenPandora handhelt (Angstrome Linux) and noticed that this kind of editors (let's call them GIS centred) isn't what will work on mobile devices in the field. I used osm2go as well and it's realy clother to my needs but is unfortunatly abandoned and currently not that good for tapping devices. On the other sides regular Smartphones are just to small (virtual keypad) so you might need a real hardware keyboard as the Pandora offers, to add streetnames etc. What in my opinion will work esp. on Tablets is: -easy to use download data (select area on map, not entering them numericaly) -ultimate reduced UI (focused on adding more attributes and just POIs, not for complex geometry, as this is best done with a mouse) -mission schemas that customize the layout/workflow: Let's say you want to add housenumbers, so you tap on the house. The editor suggests the next road and already predicts the housenumber by what you entered to house before). Another usecase might be to add 3D featuers, where a wizzard presents you different shapes of roofs, color table, ... -ability to take georeferenced audio-notes, photos and embedd them immediately Yes a HTML5 might do the job and as Josh noticed, this will simplify the deployment for mobile platforms. On the other hand I would really suggest offline editing. But this are just ideas...would be great if anybody would give it a try to see if this might work :) bye Matthias Am 02.12.2011 14:26, schrieb Josh Doe: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Ian Deesian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Lainestejaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? Jaak, Porting JOSM to Android would be an interesting academic task, but several problems lead me to believe it would not be useful for general use: - java.awt is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's rendering engine would have to be completely re-written. - javax.swing is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's UI system would have to be completely re-written. - JOSM's UI is based on menus and keyboard shortcuts. These don't have good analogs in Android and would have to be re-thought. I'd much rather see the time spent solving these problems put towards a general purpose editor that is specifically designed for a tablet. Maybe something general enough that an iOS and Android developer could use the same design with platform-specific tweaks. All valid points, however it may be useful to reuse much of the non-GUI code for handling file loading, validation, search, etc. Or perhaps it may be more worthwhile to write a nice HTML5 app that can work on iOS, Android, and the web. I think the hardest thing is coming up with a design that works well on tablets. I think first and foremost it should offer a simple and robust way to edit POIs. A good preset system is a must (share with Potlatch2 or JOSM, don't create a new one!). Allow ways to be created both by tapping nodes and drawing (with simplification algorithm). And definitely have online and offline modes. I'd encourage you to create a wiki article to try and define what should go in to a tablet app. -Josh ___ dev mailing list dev@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [OSM-dev] Merkaator port to Android
Yes it would be good to use existing source. But on the other hand Vespucci looks a bit overloaded to me. Another nice smal approach is: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/KeypadMapper So keeping the user interaction to a minimal in the field :) bye Matthias Am 02.12.2011 20:26, schrieb Toby Murray: I would suggest looking at helping to improve Vesupcci. It already does several things mentioned here and I think a few other things are at least theoretically on the roadmap. It is certainly usable on my Samsung Galaxy S. Editing geometry is kind of tricky and I ususally end up going back in JOSM and fixing things after I upload from Vespucci. But I don't see many options to change that on a small touch screen. Tablets might work better. Having an orthogonalize button might be neat though. One outstanding feature request is to save to a file that you can open in JOSM and edit before uploading. It has tagging presets built in although they are not graphical... it just offers autocomplete suggestions for tag keys and values that it knows about. So you have to know which tag you want, it just helps you fill it in quicker. But it does have a button that will send you to the wiki for the selected key. It also guesses the road name when you add an addr:street tag. In my experience it does fairly well. It displays Bing imagery by default but has several other options. It even does some minimal validation - highlighting streets with no name. Toby 2011/12/2 Matthias Meißerdig...@arcor.de: Well I've got Merkaator running on my OpenPandora handhelt (Angstrome Linux) and noticed that this kind of editors (let's call them GIS centred) isn't what will work on mobile devices in the field. I used osm2go as well and it's realy clother to my needs but is unfortunatly abandoned and currently not that good for tapping devices. On the other sides regular Smartphones are just to small (virtual keypad) so you might need a real hardware keyboard as the Pandora offers, to add streetnames etc. What in my opinion will work esp. on Tablets is: -easy to use download data (select area on map, not entering them numericaly) -ultimate reduced UI (focused on adding more attributes and just POIs, not for complex geometry, as this is best done with a mouse) -mission schemas that customize the layout/workflow: Let's say you want to add housenumbers, so you tap on the house. The editor suggests the next road and already predicts the housenumber by what you entered to house before). Another usecase might be to add 3D featuers, where a wizzard presents you different shapes of roofs, color table, ... -ability to take georeferenced audio-notes, photos and embedd them immediately Yes a HTML5 might do the job and as Josh noticed, this will simplify the deployment for mobile platforms. On the other hand I would really suggest offline editing. But this are just ideas...would be great if anybody would give it a try to see if this might work :) bye Matthias Am 02.12.2011 14:26, schrieb Josh Doe: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Ian Deesian.d...@gmail.comwrote: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 6:56 AM, Jaak Lainestejaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, as you may now, during GSoC QGIS was ported to Android tablets (http://hub.qgis.org/projects/quantum-gis/wiki/QGIS_Mobile_GSoC_2011). Merkaator has technically same base elements: Qt, GEOS, PROJ.4 etc, so based on this experience porting of Merkaator could be also possible with much smaller fuss. It should be even smaller work than getting JOSM working under Android. Question: do you know anyone who really would need and use it? Jaak, Porting JOSM to Android would be an interesting academic task, but several problems lead me to believe it would not be useful for general use: - java.awt is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's rendering engine would have to be completely re-written. - javax.swing is nowhere to be found on Android. JOSM's UI system would have to be completely re-written. - JOSM's UI is based on menus and keyboard shortcuts. These don't have good analogs in Android and would have to be re-thought. I'd much rather see the time spent solving these problems put towards a general purpose editor that is specifically designed for a tablet. Maybe something general enough that an iOS and Android developer could use the same design with platform-specific tweaks. All valid points, however it may be useful to reuse much of the non-GUI code for handling file loading, validation, search, etc. Or perhaps it may be more worthwhile to write a nice HTML5 app that can work on iOS, Android, and the web. I think the hardest thing is coming up with a design that works well on tablets. I think first and foremost it should offer a simple and robust way to edit POIs. A good preset system is a must (share with Potlatch2 or JOSM, don't create a new one!). Allow ways to be created both by tapping nodes and drawing (with simplification algorithm). And definitely have online and offline
