[OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?

[Rob H Warren]

Johannes,

I think this is a great idea. It would also be useful for tertiary roads where 
the surface is also uneven and problematic for normal cars. Perhaps more 
importantly, it would allow the automated upload to OSM of this data from 
whatever sensor is available instead of depending on a workflow outside of the 
OSM stack. 

> On Jan 29, 2018, at 7:00 AM, dev-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 08:59:15 +0100
> From: Johannes 
> To: dev@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on
>   osm.org?
> Message-ID: <3ztlqs0p4cz9...@submission02.posteo.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I wanted to get some opinions about an idea of mine.
> 
> I consider data on the smoothness/roughness of routes to be quite important 
> for cycle routing in order to plan optimal routes. Up to now, this has not 
> played a major role in bicycle routes, as far as I know. Therefore, I would 
> like to make a small improvement of the surface data for paths in 
> Openstreetmap.
> 
> You can see on mapillary photos what kind of road surface there is on a cycle 
> path, but you can't deduce reliable data about the smoothness of it.
> 
> A first technical idea was to record a track as a GPX file enriched with a 
> vibration coefficient (IRI, International Roughness Index, dont know the 
> exactly format yet) recorded by a smartphone while riding a bike. 
> The GPX file format seems to be flexible enough (extension?) to store 
> additional data such as this coefficient.
> 
> Therefore a central data repository is needed.
> Do you think it's a good idea to store such enriched GPX data in the public 
> GPS tracks repository on openstreetmap.org and make appropriate changes to 
> the database schema and API so that these additional metadata are preserved 
> when exporting GPX, so that on the one hand the GPS tracks can be made 
> available to the public and on the other hand special client  software can 
> visualize the vibration metadata.
> 
> What do you think? 
> Greetings Johannes


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Re: [OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?

[Dave F]

I gave up tagging a way's smoothness a long time ago as it's so 
subjective & open to misinterpretation. Agreeing on what the make-up of 
the actual surface is difficult enough. See also anything referred to as 
'difficult' or 'dangerous':


All of the scales listed here would be described by me as "You've got to 
be kidding me, I'm getting off & pushing.":

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale

DaveF

On 28/01/2018 07:59, Johannes wrote:

Hello,

I wanted to get some opinions about an idea of mine.

I consider data on the smoothness/roughness of routes to be quite important for 
cycle routing in order to plan optimal routes. Up to now, this has not played a 
major role in bicycle routes, as far as I know. Therefore, I would like to make 
a small improvement of the surface data for paths in Openstreetmap.

You can see on mapillary photos what kind of road surface there is on a cycle 
path, but you can't deduce reliable data about the smoothness of it.

A first technical idea was to record a track as a GPX file enriched with a 
vibration coefficient (IRI, International Roughness Index, dont know the 
exactly format yet) recorded by a smartphone while riding a bike.
The GPX file format seems to be flexible enough (extension?) to store 
additional data such as this coefficient.

Therefore a central data repository is needed.
Do you think it's a good idea to store such enriched GPX data in the public GPS 
tracks repository on openstreetmap.org and make appropriate changes to the 
database schema and API so that these additional metadata are preserved when 
exporting GPX, so that on the one hand the GPS tracks can be made available to 
the public and on the other hand special client  software can visualize the 
vibration metadata.

What do you think?
Greetings Johannes
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Re: [OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?

[Christian Müller]

> Gesendet: Sonntag, 28. Januar 2018 um 07:59 Uhr
> Von: Johannes 
> An: dev@openstreetmap.org
> Betreff: [OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?
>
> I consider data on the smoothness/roughness of routes to be quite important..
> 
> .. record a track as a GPX file enriched with a vibration coefficient ..

There has been some buzz about Android Bump Recorder App, maybe that helps
in your endeavour.

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Smartphones-koennen-Schlagloecher-melden-3935645.html
(german link, sorry)

It was hard to gain acceptance for the smoothness tag, because it is
difficult to translate real world settings _objectively_ into its tag
values.

Another approach for cyclists to judge the quality of a path or
track is to enter data when the surface has last been refurbished /
renewed.  While this maybe not be as specific, there is often a fair
correlation between track age and smoothness.

Yes, it matters how and where the surface is exposed to weather
conditions, so not every track degrades in the same way even if the
materials used to rebuild were of the same quality.  The main ad-
vantage to smoothness however is, that time of renewal is less
debatable / more objective.

If one works on an algorithm that considers date of renewal as part
of its input to calculate a final smoothness value, one could use
it to weigh an intermediate result obtained from other factors, I
suppose.


Greetings
cm

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Re: [OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?

[Tom Hughes]

On 28/01/18 07:59, Johannes wrote:


Therefore a central data repository is needed.
Do you think it's a good idea to store such enriched GPX data in the public GPS 
tracks repository on openstreetmap.org and make appropriate changes to the 
database schema and API so that these additional metadata are preserved when 
exporting GPX, so that on the one hand the GPS tracks can be made available to 
the public and on the other hand special client  software can visualize the 
vibration metadata.


Not really.

There are plenty of general purpose GPX repositories - the purpose of
the GPX tracks stored on osm.org is to support mapping and this doesn't
really seem to be useful for that.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/

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[OSM-dev] smoothness data in gpx files for GPS tracks on osm.org?

[Johannes]

Hello,

I wanted to get some opinions about an idea of mine.

I consider data on the smoothness/roughness of routes to be quite important for 
cycle routing in order to plan optimal routes. Up to now, this has not played a 
major role in bicycle routes, as far as I know. Therefore, I would like to make 
a small improvement of the surface data for paths in Openstreetmap.

You can see on mapillary photos what kind of road surface there is on a cycle 
path, but you can't deduce reliable data about the smoothness of it.

A first technical idea was to record a track as a GPX file enriched with a 
vibration coefficient (IRI, International Roughness Index, dont know the 
exactly format yet) recorded by a smartphone while riding a bike. 
The GPX file format seems to be flexible enough (extension?) to store 
additional data such as this coefficient.

Therefore a central data repository is needed.
Do you think it's a good idea to store such enriched GPX data in the public GPS 
tracks repository on openstreetmap.org and make appropriate changes to the 
database schema and API so that these additional metadata are preserved when 
exporting GPX, so that on the one hand the GPS tracks can be made available to 
the public and on the other hand special client  software can visualize the 
vibration metadata.

What do you think? 
Greetings Johannes
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