Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
On Jun 28, 2011, at 3:00 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: I feel lucky thing is not going to be a useful feature. It can work nicely in cases where bindings are relatively unique (for example, `get-impure-port'), but getting it to do the right thing for common names (like `cons') will be challenging, since you don't want someone who works in the r6rs language to keep being frustrated by getting the wrong docs. I guess one of the language properties should be (1) constrain the doc search process so that forms are only found in this language and in libraries (2) things from libraries can be excluded from specific languages because we know they won't run _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: On Jun 28, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: (2) things from libraries can be excluded from specific languages because we know they won't run That won't work right too... Should I list a whole bunch of modules for my language? What happens when one of these modules becomes compatible when I or the module's author change something? So you're working in #lang racket as a naive Racket beginner, and you find some r6rs library that uses set-car!. Hey what a great idea! That enables me to do all the things I dutifully learned in a data structure course on linked lists. So I require it and it fails ... Yes I think we should be able to specify the list of 'good' xor 'bad' libraries, whichever is shorter. This should work fine: #lang racket (require my-r6rs-lib) (my-r6-fun (mlist 1 2 3)) I can't think of any non-trivial language with `require' where you can divide libraries sensibly into good and bad. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
Four minutes ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Jun 28, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: (2) things from libraries can be excluded from specific languages because we know they won't run That won't work right too... Should I list a whole bunch of modules for my language? What happens when one of these modules becomes compatible when I or the module's author change something? So you're working in #lang racket as a naive Racket beginner, and you find some r6rs library that uses set-car!. Hey what a great idea! That enables me to do all the things I dutifully learned in a data structure course on linked lists. So I require it and it fails ... Regardless of this, you're missing the main problem. If you're in drracket (or in a racket repl), you won't get to `set-car!', unless you explicitly search everything. But the problem is when the neabies just points their browsers to doc.racket-lang.org/search/ and look for stuff -- then, in that case, no context is possible. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
On Jun 28, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: Regardless of this, you're missing the main problem. If you're in drracket (or in a racket repl), you won't get to `set-car!', unless you explicitly search everything. But the problem is when the neabies just points their browsers to doc.racket-lang.org/search/ and look for stuff -- then, in that case, no context is possible. Good argument. But when you create the docs from our code base you could show which languages don't collaborate with which libraries. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
10 minutes ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Jun 28, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: Regardless of this, you're missing the main problem. If you're in drracket (or in a racket repl), you won't get to `set-car!', unless you explicitly search everything. But the problem is when the neabies just points their browsers to doc.racket-lang.org/search/ and look for stuff -- then, in that case, no context is possible. Good argument. But when you create the docs from our code base you could show which languages don't collaborate with which libraries. Yeah, that's doable -- as well as some search operator for which language you want to use as your context. There's something very similar there now -- and I think that in practice nobody uses it. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
On Jun 28, 2011, at 11:23 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: 10 minutes ago, Matthias Felleisen wrote: On Jun 28, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: Regardless of this, you're missing the main problem. If you're in drracket (or in a racket repl), you won't get to `set-car!', unless you explicitly search everything. But the problem is when the neabies just points their browsers to doc.racket-lang.org/search/ and look for stuff -- then, in that case, no context is possible. Good argument. But when you create the docs from our code base you could show which languages don't collaborate with which libraries. Yeah, that's doable -- as well as some search operator for which language you want to use as your context. There's something very similar there now -- and I think that in practice nobody uses it. Perhaps it's too complicated. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] [racket] getting symbol documentation URL quickly within Emacs
We can improve the documentation system. This kind of objection has been raised time and again (not the very same objection but dependence on racket or assumptions about running in drracket). We cannot and will never convince all people to use DrRacket or even Emacs. Some lost souls will continue to use vi. (I have used it for 25 years at least once a year and I will admit it, on rare occasions I have edited Scheme/Racket files in it.) So, since Eli has invested a tremendous amount of time in the JS part, I am sure he can figure out how to render it for other info systems. We may just have to make Emacsers happy first to see how to create an entirely general doc system for interfacing from all kinds of worlds. Eli? -- Matthias On Jun 25, 2011, at 4:27 AM, Robby Findler wrote: You can improve the documentation system. :) Robby On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Neil Van Dyke n...@neilvandyke.org wrote: Forgot to mention: I could also use quick-reference information of procedure/macro syntax/args in Emacs, for displaying in echo area or tooltip as you're editing a use of the procedure/macro. So, how the quick-reference gets implemented might influence how getting the URL for more documentation gets implemented. Neil Van Dyke wrote at 06/25/2011 04:13 AM: If I'm in Emacs, and I have a symbol for some Racket standard library procedure or syntax, and I want to get the URL (or open the URL in browser) for the documentation for that symbol... what is a good and fast way to do that? Ideas I've considered so far: 1. Use racket/help. I don't want to do this, since I'd really prefer not to keep a racket process open for this purpose, and invoking racket each time is uncomfortably slow. (As the below timings show, the help macro is not very fast: on my 2GHz dual-core (with no swap), when the pertinent files *are* cached by Linux, getting the URL takes about 2.6 seconds. When caches are empty except for what is needed to start the racket process, getting the URL takes about 15.6 seconds. Looking up *subsequent* symbols in the same racket process takes only around 0.2 seconds, however.) 2. Keep a racket process open and use some lookup of my own design. I'm guessing this is the same as racket/help, and so I have the same objections. 3. Have Emacs find the appropriate index.html on the filesystem or on racket-lang.org, and then send a URL to that with the q query parameter for my symbol, letting the JS look up the documentation, and waiting for the JS the first time. This will at least get me a list of search hits, but won't jump to the documentation for the exact symbol. 4. Have Emacs load the documentation indexes (perhaps in the background when idle, at startup, and when we notice they change) and do the lookup in Emacs. This is what Quack did for older PLT documentation, and it stopped working when the documentation format changed and I didn't have time to rewrite. I could also be sensitive about things like which #lang we were in (like I could with an external process, if I passed it the #lang information). Any more ideas/thoughts? (Other than pressing me on why I'd rather not keep a racket process open for this purpose. Eventually the new Emacs mode, Meow, will probably do that for things like Check Syntax, but I don't want to go there yet if I don't have to.) Note that all these require some notion of *from which Racket install tree or which Racket version on the Web do you want this documentation*, and that's some HCI and coding work that has to be done in any case. BEGIN ~ echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches 3 ~ echo '(display hello, world!\n)' | racket Welcome to Racket v5.1.1. hello, world! ~ time echo (help begin) | racket Welcome to Racket v5.1.1. Loading help index... Sending to web browser... file: /usr/local/racket-5.1.1/share/racket/doc/reference/begin.html anchor: (form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._begin)) Starting Firefox... real0m15.584s user0m2.472s sys0m0.180s ~ time echo (help begin) | racket Welcome to Racket v5.1.1. Loading help index... Sending to web browser... file: /usr/local/racket-5.1.1/share/racket/doc/reference/begin.html anchor: (form._((quote._~23~25kernel)._begin)) Starting Firefox... real0m2.622s user0m2.240s sys0m0.124s ~ time echo (begin (help and) (help or)) | racket Welcome to Racket v5.1.1. Loading help index... Sending to web browser... file: /usr/local/racket-5.1.1/share/racket/doc/reference/if.html anchor: (form._((lib._racket/private/letstx-scheme..rkt)._and)) Starting Firefox... Sending to web browser... file: /usr/local/racket-5.1.1/share/racket/doc/reference/if.html anchor: (form._((lib._racket/private/letstx-scheme..rkt)._or)) Starting Firefox... real0m2.858s user0m2.216s sys0m0.116s ~ END _
