Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
I've finally gotten back to this and just pushed something that uses tooltips for these messages now. Thanks, Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 9:56 PM, Stephen Bloch wrote: > I find confusing the caption at the bottom of the dialog that explains what > the currently-selected language means. I think we could provide the same > information more intuitively with mouseover tooltips, and lose the caption > entirely. I'm not worried about showing a caption for the language the mouse > is currently over, rather than the currently selected language, because > people are accustomed to tooltips and expect them to come and go with where > the mouse is. > > Stephen Bloch > sbl...@adelphi.edu > > > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
I find confusing the caption at the bottom of the dialog that explains what the currently-selected language means. I think we could provide the same information more intuitively with mouseover tooltips, and lose the caption entirely. I'm not worried about showing a caption for the language the mouse is currently over, rather than the currently selected language, because people are accustomed to tooltips and expect them to come and go with where the mouse is. Stephen Bloch sbl...@adelphi.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Ah, no I see what you mean. Let's keep this one for a while. On Nov 6, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > Just to check: did you click on #lang racket when you had #lang racket > in the buffer already? I need to improve that case a little bit. > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Matthias Felleisen > wrote: >> >> Ouch. It satisfies the "gui design laws" so it passes this test. >> For an 'old timer' it doesn't truly work. Let's wait and see. >> >> -- Matthias >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >> >>> Okay, I've push something to try to deal with this. >>> >>> Robby >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Robby Findler >>> wrote: OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by non-parallelism. Duh! Hm. Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > +1 > > Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: > -- I think we're closer to getting it right > -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. > > > > > On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > >> On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: >>> The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly >>> underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? >>> >>> I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the >>> definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the >>> user. >> >> I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could >> imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not >> be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual >> distinction. >> >> Cheers, >> Asumu > >> smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
No, I just played with the language dialog itself. On Nov 6, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > Just to check: did you click on #lang racket when you had #lang racket > in the buffer already? I need to improve that case a little bit. > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Matthias Felleisen > wrote: >> >> Ouch. It satisfies the "gui design laws" so it passes this test. >> For an 'old timer' it doesn't truly work. Let's wait and see. >> >> -- Matthias >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Robby Findler wrote: >> >>> Okay, I've push something to try to deal with this. >>> >>> Robby >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Robby Findler >>> wrote: OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by non-parallelism. Duh! Hm. Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > +1 > > Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: > -- I think we're closer to getting it right > -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. > > > > > On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > >> On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: >>> The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly >>> underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? >>> >>> I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the >>> definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the >>> user. >> >> I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could >> imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not >> be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual >> distinction. >> >> Cheers, >> Asumu > >> smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Just to check: did you click on #lang racket when you had #lang racket in the buffer already? I need to improve that case a little bit. On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 7:40 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > Ouch. It satisfies the "gui design laws" so it passes this test. > For an 'old timer' it doesn't truly work. Let's wait and see. > > -- Matthias > > > > > On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > >> Okay, I've push something to try to deal with this. >> >> Robby >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Robby Findler >> wrote: >>> OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the >>> way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are >>> just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by >>> non-parallelism. >>> >>> Duh! >>> >>> Hm. >>> >>> Robby >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen >>> wrote: +1 Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: -- I think we're closer to getting it right -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: >> The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly >> underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? >> >> I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the >> definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the >> user. > > I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could > imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not > be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual > distinction. > > Cheers, > Asumu > _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Ouch. It satisfies the "gui design laws" so it passes this test. For an 'old timer' it doesn't truly work. Let's wait and see. -- Matthias On Nov 6, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > Okay, I've push something to try to deal with this. > > Robby > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Robby Findler > wrote: >> OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the >> way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are >> just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by >> non-parallelism. >> >> Duh! >> >> Hm. >> >> Robby >> >> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen >> wrote: >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: >>> -- I think we're closer to getting it right >>> -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: >>> On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: > The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly > underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? > > I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the > definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the > user. I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual distinction. Cheers, Asumu >>> smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Okay, I've push something to try to deal with this. Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the > way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are > just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by > non-parallelism. > > Duh! > > Hm. > > Robby > > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen > wrote: >> >> +1 >> >> Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: >> -- I think we're closer to getting it right >> -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. >> >> >> >> >> On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: >> >>> On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the user. >>> >>> I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could >>> imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not >>> be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual >>> distinction. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Asumu >> _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
OH! I now get the confusion. Clicking on the teaching languages is the way one interacts with that part of the dialog but the #lang lines are just text and users of this thing will be completely confused by non-parallelism. Duh! Hm. Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > +1 > > Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: > -- I think we're closer to getting it right > -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. > > > > > On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > >> On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: >>> The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly >>> underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? >>> >>> I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the >>> definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the >>> user. >> >> I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could >> imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not >> be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual >> distinction. >> >> Cheers, >> Asumu > _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
+1 Thank you for the experiment. I am coming to two conclusions: -- I think we're closer to getting it right -- I am beginning to think we dont' ever wish to abolish it. On Nov 6, 2012, at 3:09 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: >> The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly >> underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? >> >> I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the >> definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the >> user. > > I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could > imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not > be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual > distinction. > > Cheers, > Asumu smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On 2012-11-06 14:03:50 -0600, Robby Findler wrote: > The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly > underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? > > I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the > definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the > user. I didn't actually expect the '#lang ...' to change anything, but I could imagine thinking that it did and being confused. Similarly, it might not be obvious that the teaching languages are clickable without some visual distinction. Cheers, Asumu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
The "docs" links are meant to all be clickable (and I can certainly underline them). What were you expecting, exactly? I prefer not to make clicking on the "#lang .." part edit the definitions window; I think copy and paste is probably clearer to the user. Robby On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > On 2012-11-06 14:27:42 -0500, Asumu Takikawa wrote: >> The latest dialog with this change looks really nice! FWIW, one thing >> that confused me was that the language selector in the bottom left still >> says "Determine language from source" when you click on "The Racket >> Language" in the dialog. > > Another thing: it was non-obvious to me that the indented options were > clickable (and some aren't). Maybe an underline (like HTML links) would > suffice? > > Cheers, > Asumu > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On 2012-11-06 14:27:42 -0500, Asumu Takikawa wrote: > The latest dialog with this change looks really nice! FWIW, one thing > that confused me was that the language selector in the bottom left still > says "Determine language from source" when you click on "The Racket > Language" in the dialog. Another thing: it was non-obvious to me that the indented options were clickable (and some aren't). Maybe an underline (like HTML links) would suffice? Cheers, Asumu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Robby Findler wrote: > Okay, thanks for the feedback. > > I've pushed a change that mostly takes the suggestions, except no blue > and instead of the parentheticals, I've linked to the docs. (I don't > like how the links don't line up vertically so I'll fix that unless > the whole thing is dumped, depending on what people say here.) I love it! Aside from the vertical alignment, I'd make the various #langs clickable, and have them change the #lang in the file (if it's unedited). -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On 2012-11-05 22:14:57 -0500, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > -- I would use "The Racket Language" for the first line of the first item The latest dialog with this change looks really nice! FWIW, one thing that confused me was that the language selector in the bottom left still says "Determine language from source" when you click on "The Racket Language" in the dialog. I understand the connection here, but I imagine it'd be confusing for some people. Maybe just put "Racket (#lang)" or "Racket (determine language from source)" or something else instead? Cheers, Asumu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
A few minutes ago, Robby Findler wrote: > Well, I can't say that I'm excited about the prospect of going back > to that dialog. My goal is to move towards no language dialog at all > eventually and that change would not be a step in that direction. (Yes, I know that the goal is to get rid of it -- it's just that we now have this weird semi-hierarchy thing that is better expressed with just a plain hierlist...) -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Well, I can't say that I'm excited about the prospect of going back to that dialog. My goal is to move towards no language dialog at all eventually and that change would not be a step in that direction. While we wait for others' opinions, I've pushed something that makes the ellipsis clickable, at least. On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Eli Barzilay wrote: > Yesterday, Matthias Felleisen wrote: >> >> I second Sam's suggestions. >> >> -- I would use "The Racket Language" for the first line of the first > > +117 > > (I see it in the new dialog, but looks like the language still has the > long name elsewhere.) > > >> I agree with Robby that *SLs probably have to reject (module ...) >> expressions EXCEPT that I don't see how they can get hold of the >> information that the programmer wrote down (other than guessing from >> the second position in the module expression but that sounds bad). > > I think that it's fine for drr to spit an appropriate error (maybe > even with a shortcut "click ok to switch to #lang" button) if the > definitions text starts with a "#lang". It's only stealing the > ability for the non-#lang languages to use "#lang" for something else, > but none of them are doing it now, and since it's something that > should eventually disappear there shouldn't be any new ones (or worse, > new ones that use it). > > > Also, the thing that sticks out to me (still) is the poor-looking UI. > It's using a radio button selection for something that it isn't > intended for (UI-ly speaking). I think that this is the main thing > that leads to several smaller problems -- > > * the awkward use of "ctl-?" to switch, > > * the confusing interaction if you're not a mouse user, > > * the fact that the blurb line appears at the bottom (confusigly close > to the "..." of the "other" languages), > > * the weird interaction around the "..." (I obviously tried to click > it) > > * The fact that it's still steals a lot of screen space for something > that most people shouldn't need (and DeinProgramm is making it take > even more space?). > > But I think that the organization is a good direction for something > that works nicely -- so how about this: > > * Revert all the way back to the plain hierarchical dialog that was > used before the radio button thing (= go back to a simple UI) > > * Slap the current hierarchy on that, so that "The Racket Language" is > first as it is now (and part of the hierarchy, top item), that > preserves the current layout that encourages it. > > * To deal with the teaching languages, have them expanded only if the > current language is the no-language thing (though I still think that > that language is confusing more people than helping them). > > -- > ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: > http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Yesterday, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > I second Sam's suggestions. > > -- I would use "The Racket Language" for the first line of the first +117 (I see it in the new dialog, but looks like the language still has the long name elsewhere.) > I agree with Robby that *SLs probably have to reject (module ...) > expressions EXCEPT that I don't see how they can get hold of the > information that the programmer wrote down (other than guessing from > the second position in the module expression but that sounds bad). I think that it's fine for drr to spit an appropriate error (maybe even with a shortcut "click ok to switch to #lang" button) if the definitions text starts with a "#lang". It's only stealing the ability for the non-#lang languages to use "#lang" for something else, but none of them are doing it now, and since it's something that should eventually disappear there shouldn't be any new ones (or worse, new ones that use it). Also, the thing that sticks out to me (still) is the poor-looking UI. It's using a radio button selection for something that it isn't intended for (UI-ly speaking). I think that this is the main thing that leads to several smaller problems -- * the awkward use of "ctl-?" to switch, * the confusing interaction if you're not a mouse user, * the fact that the blurb line appears at the bottom (confusigly close to the "..." of the "other" languages), * the weird interaction around the "..." (I obviously tried to click it) * The fact that it's still steals a lot of screen space for something that most people shouldn't need (and DeinProgramm is making it take even more space?). But I think that the organization is a good direction for something that works nicely -- so how about this: * Revert all the way back to the plain hierarchical dialog that was used before the radio button thing (= go back to a simple UI) * Slap the current hierarchy on that, so that "The Racket Language" is first as it is now (and part of the hierarchy, top item), that preserves the current layout that encourages it. * To deal with the teaching languages, have them expanded only if the current language is the no-language thing (though I still think that that language is confusing more people than helping them). -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Okay, thanks for the feedback. I've pushed a change that mostly takes the suggestions, except no blue and instead of the parentheticals, I've linked to the docs. (I don't like how the links don't line up vertically so I'll fix that unless the whole thing is dumped, depending on what people say here.) Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Matthias Felleisen wrote at 11/05/2012 10:14 PM: * racket/base (for scripting) * racket (for programming) After thinking about it, I think I see what you mean with the distinction between ``for scripting'' and ``for programming''. But I think this might be confusing. (Explanation... I have been thinking of it the other way around: "#lang racket" is what you use when you want to just start typing and have everything available and type less text, in a scripting-language kind of way, and "#lang racket/base" is what one uses when putting a little more care into engineering, and doesn't mind the extra thinking and text. For example, when making a reusable PLaneT package, I think it's good practice to go to the extra effort to use "#lang racket/base" instead of "#lang racket"; otherwise, you doom all users of your package to pull in all of "#lang racket", which they might have engineering reasons not to do. But I guess you were speaking only of process load times -- that people would use "racket/base" so that standalone ``scripting'' programs would load quicker from the command line -- not about a quick-scripting nature of the programming activity?) Neil V. _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
The DrRacket-based languages have access to the port. So they can get the actual characters from it. Not "The Racket (meta-)Language" ;) I think I'll not color things blue, as that would look strange in this context; indentation seems to serve the same role and I think I can do something like what you suggest. Robby On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > > I second Sam's suggestions. > > -- I would use "The Racket Language" for the first line of the first item > then I would have in blue "Use #lang to Specify the Desired Dialect" > then I would list some candidates, possible as radio buttons > * racket/base (for scripting) > * racket (for programming) > * slideshow (for academicing) > * typed/racket (for power users) > * others (specified manually by programmer) > > I agree with Robby that *SLs probably have to reject (module ...) expressions > EXCEPT that I don't see how they can get hold of the information that the > programmer wrote down (other than guessing from the second position in > the module expression but that sounds bad). > > > > > > > On Nov 5, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > >> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Robby Findler >> wrote: >>> There was a discussion a while back on revising the language dialog >>> (I've lost track of the thread since I started hacking on the dialog; >>> apologies). >> >> The thread starts here: >> http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=12642 and continues >> here: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@racket-lang.org/msg05730.html >> >>> I've just pushed something based on that discussion. Please let me >>> know what you think. >> >> I like the new dialog a lot. I think it could be improved with some >> of the suggestions made in the thread. Three I like in particular: >> >> - Make the language for "teaching" and "#lang" more parallel. This >> could help emphasize that the first option is really a language >> choice. So either change "Teaching language" to "Use a teaching >> language", or change the first option to "Standard language" (or >> "normal" or something else like that). >> >> - Add some example #lang lines under the #lang option. These could >> even be actual choices, which edit the buffer if it's a new one -- >> `racket`, `racket/base`, `typed/racket`, `slideshow` are good >> candidates. >> >> - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, >> or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. >> >> -- >> sam th >> sa...@ccs.neu.edu >> _ >> Racket Developers list: >> http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev > _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
I second Sam's suggestions. -- I would use "The Racket Language" for the first line of the first item then I would have in blue "Use #lang to Specify the Desired Dialect" then I would list some candidates, possible as radio buttons * racket/base (for scripting) * racket (for programming) * slideshow (for academicing) * typed/racket (for power users) * others (specified manually by programmer) I agree with Robby that *SLs probably have to reject (module ...) expressions EXCEPT that I don't see how they can get hold of the information that the programmer wrote down (other than guessing from the second position in the module expression but that sounds bad). On Nov 5, 2012, at 12:55 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Robby Findler > wrote: >> There was a discussion a while back on revising the language dialog >> (I've lost track of the thread since I started hacking on the dialog; >> apologies). > > The thread starts here: > http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=12642 and continues > here: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@racket-lang.org/msg05730.html > >> I've just pushed something based on that discussion. Please let me >> know what you think. > > I like the new dialog a lot. I think it could be improved with some > of the suggestions made in the thread. Three I like in particular: > > - Make the language for "teaching" and "#lang" more parallel. This > could help emphasize that the first option is really a language > choice. So either change "Teaching language" to "Use a teaching > language", or change the first option to "Standard language" (or > "normal" or something else like that). > > - Add some example #lang lines under the #lang option. These could > even be actual choices, which edit the buffer if it's a new one -- > `racket`, `racket/base`, `typed/racket`, `slideshow` are good > candidates. > > - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, > or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. > > -- > sam th > sa...@ccs.neu.edu > _ > Racket Developers list: > http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
I think it makes sense to put that error message directly into the teaching languages. Robby On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Robby Findler > wrote: >> Thanks for taking a look. >> >> On Monday, November 5, 2012, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >>> >>> - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, >>> or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. >>> >> >> What did you have in mind here? The error you get in the teaching languages >> when the program starts with "#lang "? > > For the latter, yeah. I imagine a message like: > > You are currently using the Beginning Student, which doesn't support > files starting with #lang . To enable this, choose the > "use the language declared in the source" option in the language > dialog. > > Of course, that wording suggests that we have a shorter name for that option. > :) > > -- > sam th > sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > Thanks for taking a look. > > On Monday, November 5, 2012, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: >> >> - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, >> or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. >> > > What did you have in mind here? The error you get in the teaching languages > when the program starts with "#lang "? For the latter, yeah. I imagine a message like: You are currently using the Beginning Student, which doesn't support files starting with #lang . To enable this, choose the "use the language declared in the source" option in the language dialog. Of course, that wording suggests that we have a shorter name for that option. :) -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
Thanks for taking a look. On Monday, November 5, 2012, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, > or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. > > What did you have in mind here? The error you get in the teaching languages when the program starts with "#lang "? Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
Re: [racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > There was a discussion a while back on revising the language dialog > (I've lost track of the thread since I started hacking on the dialog; > apologies). The thread starts here: http://bugs.racket-lang.org/query/?cmd=view&pr=12642 and continues here: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@racket-lang.org/msg05730.html > I've just pushed something based on that discussion. Please let me > know what you think. I like the new dialog a lot. I think it could be improved with some of the suggestions made in the thread. Three I like in particular: - Make the language for "teaching" and "#lang" more parallel. This could help emphasize that the first option is really a language choice. So either change "Teaching language" to "Use a teaching language", or change the first option to "Standard language" (or "normal" or something else like that). - Add some example #lang lines under the #lang option. These could even be actual choices, which edit the buffer if it's a new one -- `racket`, `racket/base`, `typed/racket`, `slideshow` are good candidates. - Allow the presence of a #lang line to override the language dialog, or at least give an error that's more helpful than currently. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
[racket-dev] Revision to the Language Dialog
There was a discussion a while back on revising the language dialog (I've lost track of the thread since I started hacking on the dialog; apologies). I've just pushed something based on that discussion. Please let me know what you think. Robby _ Racket Developers list: http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev
