Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Sep 1, 2011, at 11:55 , Robby Findler wrote: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r Thanks. I just discovered this by accident when I rebuilt from the repository. But I like it. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f Sorry for not paying attention to this discussion until after the change, but I just updated and noticed it. I hate this. I have over a decade of muscle memory and I don't see anyway in the preferences to get back to my preferred behavior. It seems like my only option is to make some keybindings file but I can't figure out what to put in it. Can you add some way to go back, or at least give a keybindings file that will be okay for old grognards like me? Jay -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Is replace as menukey-r an important one, or is it really the other two? Robby On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f Sorry for not paying attention to this discussion until after the change, but I just updated and noticed it. I hate this. I have over a decade of muscle memory and I don't see anyway in the preferences to get back to my preferred behavior. It seems like my only option is to make some keybindings file but I can't figure out what to put in it. Can you add some way to go back, or at least give a keybindings file that will be okay for old grognards like me? Jay -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Nevermind. Stupid question. Robby On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: Is replace as menukey-r an important one, or is it really the other two? Robby On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f Sorry for not paying attention to this discussion until after the change, but I just updated and noticed it. I hate this. I have over a decade of muscle memory and I don't see anyway in the preferences to get back to my preferred behavior. It seems like my only option is to make some keybindings file but I can't figure out what to put in it. Can you add some way to go back, or at least give a keybindings file that will be okay for old grognards like me? Jay -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Okay, I've added a pref. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
I will say that my muscles seem to be like Jay's. BUT, I must be much younger. A day of programming and I open only 5 tabs instead of 10 when I want to run a buffer :-) _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
I keep being confused and afraid when I run my program it gets erased. ;) Robby On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Matthias Felleisen matth...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: I will say that my muscles seem to be like Jay's. BUT, I must be much younger. A day of programming and I open only 5 tabs instead of 10 when I want to run a buffer :-) _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Three hours ago, Robby Findler wrote: Okay, I've added a pref. *Sigh* I think that adding preferences is a bad direction, especially for something that could be covered by a key bindings file. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
I've had a suggestion to undo the pref addition and instead add the example in the docs. Jay: any objection to that? -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
I think that's a good idea. I found the docs very hard to understand how to do this in the keybindings file. Jay On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: I've had a suggestion to undo the pref addition and instead add the example in the docs. Jay: any objection to that? -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
The keybindings file docs assume you know a lot about the GUI system and the organization of DrRacket, unfortunately. It desperately needs some Guide-style work. Robby On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: I think that's a good idea. I found the docs very hard to understand how to do this in the keybindings file. Jay On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Eli Barzilay e...@barzilay.org wrote: I've had a suggestion to undo the pref addition and instead add the example in the docs. Jay: any objection to that? -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev -- Jay McCarthy j...@cs.byu.edu Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay The glory of God is Intelligence - DC 93 _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Matthew, On 09/01/11 16:41, Marijn wrote: On 09/01/11 16:29, Matthew Flatt wrote: At Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:14:47 -0500, Robby Findler wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. Was that after commit 459d2422e3ad8? I looked into menu-item shortcuts this morning and pushed a Gtk-specific fix for updating the displayed shortcut. Alright, that probably explains it. I'll test again tomorrow to make sure. It now works for me too. Thanks, Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5gg7MACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wWxQCfdI9CZWxBDy0BEaZlplHvUx4o inAAoJe6JT3LIkGqzfpEs/a++TxWlqTf =wtt/ -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 09/01/11 17:55, Robby Findler wrote: Okay, thanks everyone for the comments. Generally speaking, I dread keybinding-based discussions because it is impossible to make everyone happy (and usually only the unhappy people speak up :). It will probably get really quiet now then ;P. Still, I think you folks are right that changes need to happen. I've looked over various apps and the guidelines and whatnot and (yep, I buy the argument that 'Terminal and Safari don't follow the HIG so why should we?'.) so here's the changes I've just pushed. Mac OS X Windows : - renamed Close to Close Window (but kept the keybinding switchero-ness as is) Gtk: - changed the menus so there is only one Close menu (no Close Tab or Close Window); if there are multiple tabs, it closes the tab otherwise it closes the window. To close the window in the multiple tabs case, you have to use the close box (or maybe alt-f4 if the OS-level keybindings map it to closing the window). I think the distinction (between platforms) in the menu is mostly academic (both are good choices) and should IMHO be eliminated since it can only create confusion when people on different platforms talk to each other. But anyway, the test for whether the platform is Gtk seems to be faulty, because now I'm seeing the ``Windows/OS X''-style menu. The good news is that it's now working as you describe. All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r These are working. - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f This also seems to be working. I think FindReplace could be so much more useful though: Ctrl-F find-search-term-as-you-type instead of Ctrl-F search-term Ctrl-G, identifier renaming (ignore strings, symbols, partial matches), regular expression replacements, identifier regular expression renaming (lifts restriction on partial matches, by using wildcards to extend to full match). I'm sure other people have more/better ideas. Please let me know if you spot any problems. No problems, just work in progress (as is all software) ;P Thanks for working on this! Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5girYACgkQp/VmCx0OL2y3/ACfY5Gv2BKIYyY+dbFFog16FXGL C4oAn3+iXbOJiA3f2k8dhSQ160Wlm08h =aDXI -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:50 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 09/01/11 17:55, Robby Findler wrote: Okay, thanks everyone for the comments. Generally speaking, I dread keybinding-based discussions because it is impossible to make everyone happy (and usually only the unhappy people speak up :). It will probably get really quiet now then ;P. Nice! :) But to you unhappy folks: now is the time to speak up! It is better to make the changes together so I only get yelled at once. :) Still, I think you folks are right that changes need to happen. I've looked over various apps and the guidelines and whatnot and (yep, I buy the argument that 'Terminal and Safari don't follow the HIG so why should we?'.) so here's the changes I've just pushed. Mac OS X Windows : - renamed Close to Close Window (but kept the keybinding switchero-ness as is) Gtk: - changed the menus so there is only one Close menu (no Close Tab or Close Window); if there are multiple tabs, it closes the tab otherwise it closes the window. To close the window in the multiple tabs case, you have to use the close box (or maybe alt-f4 if the OS-level keybindings map it to closing the window). I think the distinction (between platforms) in the menu is mostly academic (both are good choices) and should IMHO be eliminated since it can only create confusion when people on different platforms talk to each other. Well, that's something that you'll have to talk to Apple and Gnome about, not us. :) But anyway, the test for whether the platform is Gtk seems to be faulty, because now I'm seeing the ``Windows/OS X''-style menu. The good news is that it's now working as you describe. Can you tell me the result of evaluating (system-type) on your machine? All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r These are working. - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f This also seems to be working. I think FindReplace could be so much more useful though: Ctrl-F find-search-term-as-you-type instead of Ctrl-F search-term Ctrl-G, I'll note two things here: it does search as you type (and it circles the search results); it just does not jump around as you type. I find this to be easier to use as it helps me navigate more effectively through the buffer. But I realize others don't like this (especially those coming from Emacs) so there is an attempt to do things in a more Emacs-y way that you can get to by chosing the search with anchors (or something like that) preference. identifier renaming (ignore strings, symbols, partial matches), regular expression replacements, identifier regular expression renaming (lifts restriction on partial matches, by using wildcards to extend to full match). I'm sure other people have more/better ideas. There's also the online check syntax which does actual identifier renaming, not a heuristic one. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 09/02/11 14:33, Robby Findler wrote: On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:50 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: But anyway, the test for whether the platform is Gtk seems to be faulty, because now I'm seeing the ``Windows/OS X''-style menu. The good news is that it's now working as you describe. Can you tell me the result of evaluating (system-type) on your machine? 'unix All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r These are working. - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f This also seems to be working. I think FindReplace could be so much more useful though: Ctrl-F find-search-term-as-you-type instead of Ctrl-F search-term Ctrl-G, I'll note two things here: it does search as you type (and it circles the search results); it just does not jump around as you type. I find this to be easier to use as it helps me navigate more effectively through the buffer. But I realize others don't like this (especially those coming from Emacs) so there is an attempt to do things in a more Emacs-y way that you can get to by chosing the search with anchors (or something like that) preference. I feel really stupid now; I could have sworn that there was no search-as-you-type, and it was there all along right in front of me. I'll try and keep my eyes open next time ;P. Thanks for your patience. Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5g27wACgkQp/VmCx0OL2w+fwCdEwwfdTD+RqHSH1mhPiFN0RyJ F90Anjktee2gw20jm8fRXsqbV93NjdD3 =icI7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 09/02/11 14:33, Robby Findler wrote: On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 2:50 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: But anyway, the test for whether the platform is Gtk seems to be faulty, because now I'm seeing the ``Windows/OS X''-style menu. The good news is that it's now working as you describe. Can you tell me the result of evaluating (system-type) on your machine? 'unix Ah, stupid me. Fix pushed. All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r These are working. - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f This also seems to be working. I think FindReplace could be so much more useful though: Ctrl-F find-search-term-as-you-type instead of Ctrl-F search-term Ctrl-G, I'll note two things here: it does search as you type (and it circles the search results); it just does not jump around as you type. I find this to be easier to use as it helps me navigate more effectively through the buffer. But I realize others don't like this (especially those coming from Emacs) so there is an attempt to do things in a more Emacs-y way that you can get to by chosing the search with anchors (or something like that) preference. I feel really stupid now; I could have sworn that there was no search-as-you-type, and it was there all along right in front of me. I'll try and keep my eyes open next time ;P. Thanks for your patience. Oh, not your fault. Our preferences dialog is not exactly small Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 08/31/11 20:11, Eli Barzilay wrote: 6 hours ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: The other three applications (Pidgin, Epiphany, Gedit) all follow the behavior described in the HIG: there is only a Close menu entry (no Close Tab), it closes the current tab, and its shortcut is Ctrl-w. I think we should follow the platform guidelines here as well, and do the same. I prefer that the above (a single Close entry that closes the current tab or the current window) be used everywhere, including on OSX. 1. It's as important as the Run button, which already steps over the well-used `C-t', which is *so* confusing[*] that not having two distinct menu entries for close/close-all seems extremely minor in comparison. [*] Confusing enough that I keep tripping over it in class, hitting C-t a few times and realize the mistake. It's even worse in making me use C-= in my browser later in an attempt to create a new tab. This is a mess that I think is better to address than keeping C-t for backward compatibility. I concur with Eli completely. Given that Ctrl+R is currently bound to ``Replace'' which is disabled by default (!) it seems silly not to bind it to Run (which apparently is important enough to have its own button). Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEUEARECAAYFAk5fQNwACgkQp/VmCx0OL2zjRwCgoqe68NzyJ5w3gRCyoUEPPluP A+UAl2izKs/lM46vf9ZW2VwxAAosVeI= =vsqY -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. I've put a screenshot here to illustrate what I mean. This is the file menu I see when there is just one tab (right after drracket starts up): http://www.eecs.northwestern.edu/~robby/tmp/one-tab.png Then, after creating a tab, this is the file menu that I see: http://www.eecs.northwestern.edu/~robby/tmp/two-tabs.png Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
At Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:14:47 -0500, Robby Findler wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. Was that after commit 459d2422e3ad8? I looked into menu-item shortcuts this morning and pushed a Gtk-specific fix for updating the displayed shortcut. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/01/11 16:14, Robby Findler wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. I've put a screenshot here to illustrate what I mean. This is the file menu I see when there is just one tab (right after drracket starts up): http://www.eecs.northwestern.edu/~robby/tmp/one-tab.png Then, after creating a tab, this is the file menu that I see: http://www.eecs.northwestern.edu/~robby/tmp/two-tabs.png Robby Interesting, for me only whether Close tab is disabled changes, but not the displayed keybindings. I have both gtk+-2.24.5 and gtk+-3.0.12 installed. Not sure what else could make the difference. Any other Linux users with test data? Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5fmDoACgkQp/VmCx0OL2ycgACggi9D/AM5mrvtYEJj3Mt+WYTj bxEAn1XqqQTjyXWyAy+1B8DUFwhBpXPU =Kyxd -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/01/11 16:29, Matthew Flatt wrote: At Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:14:47 -0500, Robby Findler wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. Was that after commit 459d2422e3ad8? I looked into menu-item shortcuts this morning and pushed a Gtk-specific fix for updating the displayed shortcut. Alright, that probably explains it. I'll test again tomorrow to make sure. Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5fmYoACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wuVQCfYSx13oaZCSuBOpfWleJuqn7Z daAAn3+o7qanxUXvT90Wp/3qsQAA9GYt =tRjD -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/01/11 16:29, Matthew Flatt wrote: At Thu, 1 Sep 2011 09:14:47 -0500, Robby Findler wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). On Gtk nothing has changed for me. I've managed to get my ubuntu 10.04.1 vm back in shape and rebuild drracket there and the various keybindings and menu items seem to shift around as expected. Was that after commit 459d2422e3ad8? I looked into menu-item shortcuts this morning and pushed a Gtk-specific fix for updating the displayed shortcut. Alright, that probably explains it. I'll test again tomorrow to make sure. Oh, I missed that commit! Yes, I expect it was afterwards. _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Okay, thanks everyone for the comments. Generally speaking, I dread keybinding-based discussions because it is impossible to make everyone happy (and usually only the unhappy people speak up :). Still, I think you folks are right that changes need to happen. I've looked over various apps and the guidelines and whatnot and (yep, I buy the argument that 'Terminal and Safari don't follow the HIG so why should we?'.) so here's the changes I've just pushed. Mac OS X Windows : - renamed Close to Close Window (but kept the keybinding switchero-ness as is) Gtk: - changed the menus so there is only one Close menu (no Close Tab or Close Window); if there are multiple tabs, it closes the tab otherwise it closes the window. To close the window in the multiple tabs case, you have to use the close box (or maybe alt-f4 if the OS-level keybindings map it to closing the window). All platforms: - changed New Tab to menukey-t - changed Run to menukey-r - changed Replace to menukey-shift-f Please let me know if you spot any problems. Thanks, Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Linux, in my File menu the Ctrl-w shortcut is always listed as shortcut for Close, while Close Tab has no shortcut, but I see now that Ctrl-w's behavior is actually to close the current tab. So in this case my suggestion comes down to just relabelling the menu items from: File - Close to File - Close Window I'm going to follow the apple human interface guidelines on this point and leave things as they are: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html and fixing the moving of the Ctrl+W keybinding in the labels. In this case you should fix the above-mentioned moving, because on Gtk Ctrl+W stays put no matter the number of tabs. The GTK interface guidelines suggest that close (and thus control-w) should close the current document which, to me, means the current tab, not the current window. I find that here: http://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.0/hig-book.html#the-file-menu (This is different from Apple's which say that close always closes a window.) I suppose that means that I should change the meaning of the close menu under gtk without changing the label of the menu but I think that's probably slightly more confusing than the status quo (well, when the bug mentioned below gets fixed). I tried 4 different tabbed application on my system (Ubuntu 11.04). Firefox, which doesn't try as hard to follow platform guidelines, doesn't have a close menu entry at all, and Ctrl-w closes the currently-open tab, unless there's only one, and then it closes the window. The other three applications (Pidgin, Epiphany, Gedit) all follow the behavior described in the HIG: there is only a Close menu entry (no Close Tab), it closes the current tab, and its shortcut is Ctrl-w. I think we should follow the platform guidelines here as well, and do the same. -- sam th sa...@ccs.neu.edu _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
6 hours ago, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: The other three applications (Pidgin, Epiphany, Gedit) all follow the behavior described in the HIG: there is only a Close menu entry (no Close Tab), it closes the current tab, and its shortcut is Ctrl-w. I think we should follow the platform guidelines here as well, and do the same. I prefer that the above (a single Close entry that closes the current tab or the current window) be used everywhere, including on OSX. 1. It's as important as the Run button, which already steps over the well-used `C-t', which is *so* confusing[*] that not having two distinct menu entries for close/close-all seems extremely minor in comparison. 2. Ever since tabs became common practice, I don't think that I ever encountered any need for a specific close all functionality. The way to close a *window* (that is, A-f4 on Windows and most linux WMs) is perfectly fine for that. [*] Confusing enough that I keep tripping over it in class, hitting C-t a few times and realize the mistake. It's even worse in making me use C-= in my browser later in an attempt to create a new tab. This is a mess that I think is better to address than keeping C-t for backward compatibility. -- ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: http://barzilay.org/ Maze is Life! _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
As a sample of OS X (10.7) applications I looked at Chrome, Safari, Terminal and Adium. In all of them Command-W did 'close tab' and Shift-Command-W did 'close window'. In the first three they are actually called that, Adium uses 'close chat' and 'close'. Given that Safari and Terminal are Apple products, I think that Command-W as close tab instead of window is fairly standard now. -Eric _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
[racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, in drRacket in the File menu there are the option Close and Close Tab. File - Close does not close the current file, but instead closes the whole program. Furthermore, it is bound to Ctrl+w, which in many browsers is bound to Close Tab, and in many terminal emulators (like LXTerminal, Konsole, Gnome Terminal) Ctrl+Shift+w means close tab. Close Program (usually called Quit) is bound to Ctrl+Q (Firefox) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (terminal emulators). Could drRacket follow these keybindings? Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5WCREACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wXJACeIgC+GivVNvxHJV7V3RYdomyE FfUAn3M0q5Q6KrP+YiAg1VG1Pi44RKfR =LGP8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
The intention is that close means close window and the menukey-w shortcut moves between the close and close tab menu items depending on how many tabs are open. Are you seeing something different than that? Robby On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 3:34 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, in drRacket in the File menu there are the option Close and Close Tab. File - Close does not close the current file, but instead closes the whole program. Furthermore, it is bound to Ctrl+w, which in many browsers is bound to Close Tab, and in many terminal emulators (like LXTerminal, Konsole, Gnome Terminal) Ctrl+Shift+w means close tab. Close Program (usually called Quit) is bound to Ctrl+Q (Firefox) or Ctrl+Shift+Q (terminal emulators). Could drRacket follow these keybindings? Marijn -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5WCREACgkQp/VmCx0OL2wXJACeIgC+GivVNvxHJV7V3RYdomyE FfUAn3M0q5Q6KrP+YiAg1VG1Pi44RKfR =LGP8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Robby, this is something I've brought up before, too. It may be the default on the Mac, but it's certainly strange behavior on other platforms. I often find DrRacket disappearing on me and wondering why, then realizing...uh oh, close means something different. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 08/25/11 14:13, Robby Findler wrote: The intention is that close means close window and the menukey-w shortcut moves between the close and close tab menu items depending on how many tabs are open. Are you seeing something different than that? On Linux, in my File menu the Ctrl-w shortcut is always listed as shortcut for Close, while Close Tab has no shortcut, but I see now that Ctrl-w's behavior is actually to close the current tab. So in this case my suggestion comes down to just relabelling the menu items from: File - Close to File - Close Window I'm going to follow the apple human interface guidelines on this point and leave things as they are: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html and fixing the moving of the Ctrl+W keybinding in the labels. Another option is to change: File - Close (Ctrl+W) File - Close Tab to File - Close Window (Ctrl+Shift+W) File - Close Tab (Ctrl+W) and not move the shortcuts depending on tab plurality. Firefox and Midori both have Ctrl+Shift+W bound to Close Window, so maybe that is a good candidate for drRacket too (if a shortcut beyond Alt+F4 is desired for Close Window). Other programs with tabs I checked only have one of Close Window and Quit, in each case bound to Ctrl+(Shift+)Q. I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
Is Firefox the standard for tab-related key bindings on all the different platforms? I think it is on Linux and Windows, but I don't know about Macs. -- http://www.neilvandyke.org/ _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
For you, is this an issue with the underscores in the menu items? That is, if the underscore moved from close to close tab would that help you at all? Robby On Thursday, August 25, 2011, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Robby, this is something I've brought up before, too. It may be the default on the Mac, but it's certainly strange behavior on other platforms. I often find DrRacket disappearing on me and wondering why, then realizing...uh oh, close means something different. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 08/25/11 14:13, Robby Findler wrote: The intention is that close means close window and the menukey-w shortcut moves between the close and close tab menu items depending on how many tabs are open. Are you seeing something different than that? On Linux, in my File menu the Ctrl-w shortcut is always listed as shortcut for Close, while Close Tab has no shortcut, but I see now that Ctrl-w's behavior is actually to close the current tab. So in this case my suggestion comes down to just relabelling the menu items from: File - Close to File - Close Window I'm going to follow the apple human interface guidelines on this point and leave things as they are: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html and fixing the moving of the Ctrl+W keybinding in the labels. Another option is to change: File - Close (Ctrl+W) File - Close Tab to File - Close Window (Ctrl+Shift+W) File - Close Tab (Ctrl+W) and not move the shortcuts depending on tab plurality. Firefox and Midori both have Ctrl+Shift+W bound to Close Window, so maybe that is a good candidate for drRacket too (if a shortcut beyond Alt+F4 is desired for Close Window). Other programs with tabs I checked only have one of Close Window and Quit, in each case bound to Ctrl+(Shift+)Q. I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
What do you mean by you can kill the tab w/ C-w (which won't work in DrRacket)? On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Yes, Robby, that would be great. The default should be to close as little as possible, not as much as possible. On Windows 7: In Firefox, File | _C_ is indeed close *TAB*. In Chrome, there isn't even a close tab menu option. You can Exit (which is pretty unambiguous) or you can kill the tab w/ C-w (which won't work in DrRacket) or by clicking on the (X) for the tab. So I expect Firefox users would be especially surprised (and displeased) by DrRacket's behavior. Shriram On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: For you, is this an issue with the underscores in the menu items? That is, if the underscore moved from close to close tab would that help you at all? Robby On Thursday, August 25, 2011, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Robby, this is something I've brought up before, too. It may be the default on the Mac, but it's certainly strange behavior on other platforms. I often find DrRacket disappearing on me and wondering why, then realizing...uh oh, close means something different. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 08/25/11 14:13, Robby Findler wrote: The intention is that close means close window and the menukey-w shortcut moves between the close and close tab menu items depending on how many tabs are open. Are you seeing something different than that? On Linux, in my File menu the Ctrl-w shortcut is always listed as shortcut for Close, while Close Tab has no shortcut, but I see now that Ctrl-w's behavior is actually to close the current tab. So in this case my suggestion comes down to just relabelling the menu items from: File - Close to File - Close Window I'm going to follow the apple human interface guidelines on this point and leave things as they are: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html and fixing the moving of the Ctrl+W keybinding in the labels. Another option is to change: File - Close (Ctrl+W) File - Close Tab to File - Close Window (Ctrl+Shift+W) File - Close Tab (Ctrl+W) and not move the shortcuts depending on tab plurality. Firefox and Midori both have Ctrl+Shift+W bound to Close Window, so maybe that is a good candidate for drRacket too (if a shortcut beyond Alt+F4 is desired for Close Window). Other programs with tabs I checked only have one of Close Window and Quit, in each case bound to Ctrl+(Shift+)Q. I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: For you, is this an issue with the underscores in the menu items? That is, if the underscore moved from close to close tab would that help you at all? On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Yes, Robby, that would be great. Okay, apparently I'd forgotten: I did that already. Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
Re: [racket-dev] drRacket Close/Close tab
I mean that the C-w key-binding isn't always available (at least w/ Emacs bindings on, it has the Emacs interpretation). Shriram On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: What do you mean by you can kill the tab w/ C-w (which won't work in DrRacket)? On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Yes, Robby, that would be great. The default should be to close as little as possible, not as much as possible. On Windows 7: In Firefox, File | _C_ is indeed close *TAB*. In Chrome, there isn't even a close tab menu option. You can Exit (which is pretty unambiguous) or you can kill the tab w/ C-w (which won't work in DrRacket) or by clicking on the (X) for the tab. So I expect Firefox users would be especially surprised (and displeased) by DrRacket's behavior. Shriram On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: For you, is this an issue with the underscores in the menu items? That is, if the underscore moved from close to close tab would that help you at all? Robby On Thursday, August 25, 2011, Shriram Krishnamurthi s...@cs.brown.edu wrote: Robby, this is something I've brought up before, too. It may be the default on the Mac, but it's certainly strange behavior on other platforms. I often find DrRacket disappearing on me and wondering why, then realizing...uh oh, close means something different. On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Robby Findler ro...@eecs.northwestern.edu wrote: On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Marijn hk...@gentoo.org wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Robby, On 08/25/11 14:13, Robby Findler wrote: The intention is that close means close window and the menukey-w shortcut moves between the close and close tab menu items depending on how many tabs are open. Are you seeing something different than that? On Linux, in my File menu the Ctrl-w shortcut is always listed as shortcut for Close, while Close Tab has no shortcut, but I see now that Ctrl-w's behavior is actually to close the current tab. So in this case my suggestion comes down to just relabelling the menu items from: File - Close to File - Close Window I'm going to follow the apple human interface guidelines on this point and leave things as they are: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html and fixing the moving of the Ctrl+W keybinding in the labels. Another option is to change: File - Close (Ctrl+W) File - Close Tab to File - Close Window (Ctrl+Shift+W) File - Close Tab (Ctrl+W) and not move the shortcuts depending on tab plurality. Firefox and Midori both have Ctrl+Shift+W bound to Close Window, so maybe that is a good candidate for drRacket too (if a shortcut beyond Alt+F4 is desired for Close Window). Other programs with tabs I checked only have one of Close Window and Quit, in each case bound to Ctrl+(Shift+)Q. I like the idea of adding shift, but I've changed things so that instead of the w shortcut going away, the close menu item becomes menukey-shift-w (so the shifting behavior is still there and we are complying with the guidelines in the no-tabs case). Robby _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev _ For list-related administrative tasks: http://lists.racket-lang.org/listinfo/dev
