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Re: Building a Faq for Royale

[Alex Harui]

Hi Dany,

To answer your last question first:  This thread belongs on dev@ because it is 
regarding files in the repos.  Everything proposed here is not about how to use 
Royale, but what changes we are going to make to files in the repos to make for 
a better initial experience.  I should have written "framework code and docs" 
in my earlier post.

You, and anyone else, are welcome to propose changes to royale-docs to make 
them better.  The right-side navigation was an attempt by me to auto-generate a 
navigation/TOC sort of thing.  I think it broke at some point.  I could swear 
it was working better.  So all it takes is volunteers to fix it up, or toss it 
out and replace it with something else.  IIRC, there are some limitations with 
.MD files and Jekyll regarding auto-generated Navigation which is why I tried 
to create our own.

The current set of pages was proposed by Andrew Wetmore.  If you want to 
propose a different set, or different or new "rules" for managing the content, 
please start a thread on that and hopefully Andrew and others will participate 
and reach an agreement.

I think there was a past thread on Royale and JSFiddle.  I think we concluded 
we would need to write our own ASFiddle.  Which would be a great Royale 
eat-your-own-dog-food project.  Again, all it takes is volunteers.

Thanks for your help driving Royale to a 1.0.

-Alex

On 5/1/19, 4:18 AM, "Dany Dhondt"  wrote:

Hi Alex,

The most important point in your answer to me is the distinction between 
dev and user.
We should indeed make this distinction. Maybe we shouldn’t contaminate the 
dev list with too many user questions.

To me, once we’re at user level, it’s all about ‘Usability’ and 
‘Experience’.
People who ‘use’ Royale should get a great experience and feel comfortable.
And that’s why some of us think we’re not at v1.0 phase yet. The experience 
is too scrambled and confusing at this moment.

A faq is literally an aggregation of questions that get asked over and over 
again and therefore, I agree that the questions should be asked on SO first and 
that the accepted answer (or a digest of the accepted answer) is copied over 
the faq section of our website. @Carlos: could you agree with that?

I went through the docs section on our website (which is generated 
automatically form the royale-docs repo?) and I don’t have a satisfying 
experience yet. We should make ’stories’ instead of ‘pages’. 

If you switch between royale.apache.org and apache.github.io, you’ll see 
what I mean. It’s subtle but it’s there.
Once you get at the ‘Welcome to Apache Royale’ page, I’m expecting the full 
TOC at the right hand size which stays there all the time. I’d like to see at 
any moment where I am. This TOC should be the same all the way. It shouldn’t 
change depending on the page I am viewing at the moment.

Look at the doc section at reactjs.org [1] or angular.io [2]  (I think we 
should use VAR (Vue, Angular, React) as our benchmarks)

One subject is one page (our docs are too much separated into individual 
pages) even if the page is very long. You just scroll down until you’ve read 
the whole story. At all times, the navigation section should be sticky on the 
left (angular) or the right (react)
In the Royale docs, most ’steps’ are a separate page. 

So it’s mostly re-arranging content, though some pages are still empty. .md 
pages are fine. React docs are at GitHub too (you can even edit them!).

Code examples should stand out very clearly (I like the way react does: 
black background)

Another example of great documentation is on semantic-ui-react [3]
There, they make it possible to alter the react code inline. It is 
immediately re-rendered in the html page!

Which bring me to a side track: will it be possible to post royale snippets 
of code on codesandbox [4] or jsfiddle [5]? On SO, if you ask a particular 
question concerning code, you’ll be asked to post a working example somewhere.

So what I would like to propose:

- We focus on asking all user questions on SO. Everyone of us who is 
willing answers questions. Don’t forget to upvote answer AND the question 
itself! TIP: if you are on SO, go to the tag section and look for 
apache-royale, then hit the ‘watch tag’ button underneath so you get notified 
of new question regarding royale.
- When a question’s is accepted, and the question itself is important 
enough, we digest it to the faq section on our website.
- We agree on a TOC for the docs. 
- Make a fixed navigation aside on the website.
- Doc ’stories’ are written and maintained at the GitHub repo.
- Docs are re-organized into well encapsulated stories and someone writes a 
script to update them in apache.royale.org (?). @Carlos: to me, it sounds like 
linking the .md file to a docs page in WordPress? Is that possible?

[1] 

Re: RE: Example of access external JS using Apache Royale

[Josh Tynjala]

You still need write the Royale typedefs manually. However, referring to the 
TypeScript definitions while you do it makes things easier. TypeScript 
definitions are limited to the API surface only, without implementations of 
everything, so you don't need to sift through the entire JS library to find the 
only function signatures and things that you need. Additionally, they are 
typed, like ActionScript, so you'll probably end up creating similar types.

I tried to create a converter (which I called dts2as) to automatically generate 
Royale typedefs from TypeScript type definitions, but it was too hard to keep 
up to date. People in the TypeScript community start using new language 
features in their type definitions as soon as a new version of TypeScript is 
released, so it was a constant game of catching up. A new version of TypeScript 
would be released, and type definitions for libraries that had been compatible 
with dts2as suddenly didn't work anymore. It would have been a full time job to 
maintain this program.

- Josh

On 2019/05/01 07:33:08, Yishay Weiss  wrote: 
> How can use the TypeScript definitions to create typedefs?
> 
> >Looks like there is TypeScript defnitions for lodash on DefinitelyTyped and 
> >Moment ships >with a TypeScript definitions.
> 
> On 4/30/19, 10:18 PM, "Dany Dhondt"  wrote:
> 
> Wouldn’t it be a nice proof of concept if we tried to implement a widely 
> used js lib into Royale?
> There are a lot of js packages that are used thousands of times a day, 
> like moment.js, lodash, …
> 
> Dany
> 
> > Op 1 mei 2019, om 01:13 heeft Alex Harui  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> >
> > Isn't the ACE editor already an example?  Or maybe there are different 
> scenarios for external JS usage.
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 4/30/19, 2:42 PM, "Carlos Rovira"  > wrote:
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'm planing to make a blog example about using external JS or CSS in 
> Apache
> >Royale since people ask for it, and I think is one of the key points 
> for
> >people that wants to use Royale.
> >My plan is to create a simple example that imports a JS script and 
> then use
> >bracket access. The example in concrete will use the script for 
> coloring
> >code that we use in TDJ that is external to Royale to show how we do 
> it.
> >
> >But I think that's just one of the ways to use external JS (bracket
> >notation access).
> >I think there's more:
> >- dot notation -> but this required typedefs (Let me know if I'm 
> wrong).
> >and in that case, I don't have clear where we can add code to 
> typedefs to
> >do this. In the other way, how users can do something like this in 
> their
> >codebases. For me this is unexplored terrain, so hope others that 
> knows
> >about it could give some techniques, or point to some docs if we 
> already
> >has something. Maybe it could be great they could write some doc in 
> our
> >GitHub pages
> >
> >- More ways?? Let me know.
> >
> >I can work on this in few days , hope you could let me know about 
> those
> >alternate methods I didn't control
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >--
> >Carlos Rovira
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf423a553176c417709a808d6cdf47e15%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636922847343802698=aE74z47Qoowlb3b6KZpzpd6jsRY06RIq74BNhakX5ew%3D=0
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Version property (was: Let's bump Royale version to 1.0)

[Josh Tynjala]

I meant that the VersionBead would contain the Royale SDK version. A separate 
version bead for the app's version would be useful too, but that's not what I 
was suggesting.

- Josh

On 2019/04/30 20:14:31, Mark Kessler  wrote: 
> Well that would work in addition too, but not replace what I'm talking
> about.  I'm talking about the SDK having a built in version.  A
> version bead would be more building an app using the SDK and the app
> having it's own version.
> 
> 
> -Mark K
> 
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 2:39 PM Piotr Zarzycki
>  wrote:
> >
> > +1 to Josh's idea that we provide bead with logic which serves version.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> 

Re: How to try locally Royale-docs repo

[Josh Tynjala]

I just added this to the README file because I wasn't sure how to run locally 
either.

I had been testing my CSS changes using the browser devtools, which wasn't 
ideal.

- Josh

On 2019/04/30 23:17:16, Alex Harui  wrote: 
> IIRC, I installed Jekyll.  Then run:
> 
>   jekyll build --config local_config.yml
> 
> Then some output folder contains html.
> 
> There is an Ant script that runs Jekyll.
> 
> HTH,
> -Alex
> 
> On 4/30/19, 2:43 PM, "Carlos Rovira"  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I saw Josh was working on Royale-docs repo.
> I'd be interested in fix and some things and be able to do some changes,
> but to do so I need to know how I can try it in my local Mac.
> 
> Someone can point me how you are working on this? I have the repo cloned,
> now I need to know what tool I should have on Mac to change and test
> locally before commit anything to see is ok.
> 
> then I'll need what's the current plans with Royale-docs and if if Josh,
> Andrew or others are working on it, let me know what you're doing to avoid
> conflicts or touch the same thing at the same time.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carlos Rovira
> 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C8f8b4eb97c684bf025bf08d6cdb4f237%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636922574377914519=0hKSOBkLOyMH2uhHwNpC1dHCuF%2FpPB8paoyvajr2eao%3D=0
> 
> 
> 

Re: Building a Faq for Royale

[Dany Dhondt]

Hi Alex,

The most important point in your answer to me is the distinction between dev 
and user.
We should indeed make this distinction. Maybe we shouldn’t contaminate the dev 
list with too many user questions.

To me, once we’re at user level, it’s all about ‘Usability’ and ‘Experience’.
People who ‘use’ Royale should get a great experience and feel comfortable.
And that’s why some of us think we’re not at v1.0 phase yet. The experience is 
too scrambled and confusing at this moment.

A faq is literally an aggregation of questions that get asked over and over 
again and therefore, I agree that the questions should be asked on SO first and 
that the accepted answer (or a digest of the accepted answer) is copied over 
the faq section of our website. @Carlos: could you agree with that?

I went through the docs section on our website (which is generated 
automatically form the royale-docs repo?) and I don’t have a satisfying 
experience yet. We should make ’stories’ instead of ‘pages’. 

If you switch between royale.apache.org and apache.github.io, you’ll see what I 
mean. It’s subtle but it’s there.
Once you get at the ‘Welcome to Apache Royale’ page, I’m expecting the full TOC 
at the right hand size which stays there all the time. I’d like to see at any 
moment where I am. This TOC should be the same all the way. It shouldn’t change 
depending on the page I am viewing at the moment.

Look at the doc section at reactjs.org [1] or angular.io [2]  (I think we 
should use VAR (Vue, Angular, React) as our benchmarks)

One subject is one page (our docs are too much separated into individual pages) 
even if the page is very long. You just scroll down until you’ve read the whole 
story. At all times, the navigation section should be sticky on the left 
(angular) or the right (react)
In the Royale docs, most ’steps’ are a separate page. 

So it’s mostly re-arranging content, though some pages are still empty. .md 
pages are fine. React docs are at GitHub too (you can even edit them!).

Code examples should stand out very clearly (I like the way react does: black 
background)

Another example of great documentation is on semantic-ui-react [3]
There, they make it possible to alter the react code inline. It is immediately 
re-rendered in the html page!

Which bring me to a side track: will it be possible to post royale snippets of 
code on codesandbox [4] or jsfiddle [5]? On SO, if you ask a particular 
question concerning code, you’ll be asked to post a working example somewhere.

So what I would like to propose:

- We focus on asking all user questions on SO. Everyone of us who is willing 
answers questions. Don’t forget to upvote answer AND the question itself! TIP: 
if you are on SO, go to the tag section and look for apache-royale, then hit 
the ‘watch tag’ button underneath so you get notified of new question regarding 
royale.
- When a question’s is accepted, and the question itself is important enough, 
we digest it to the faq section on our website.
- We agree on a TOC for the docs. 
- Make a fixed navigation aside on the website.
- Doc ’stories’ are written and maintained at the GitHub repo.
- Docs are re-organized into well encapsulated stories and someone writes a 
script to update them in apache.royale.org (?). @Carlos: to me, it sounds like 
linking the .md file to a docs page in WordPress? Is that possible?

[1] https://reactjs.org/docs/getting-started.html
[2] https://angular.io/docs
[3] https://react.semantic-ui.com
[4] https://codesandbox.io
[5] https://jsfiddle.net

And a final question: do we post this kind of threads on u...@royale.org from 
now on?

Dany



> Op 1 mei 2019, om 08:55 heeft Alex Harui  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Hi Dany,
> 
> I don't have any formed opinion on the best way to collect FAQ.
> 
> FWIW, in theory, dev@ is for questions related to the development of the 
> framework code that goes in the Apache Royale repos.  Users@ and 
> StackOverflow (SO) are intended to support folks using Royale to build 
> applications.  Some Apache projects don't even have a users@ list, they only 
> use SO and vice-versa.  I'm assuming you want to build a FAQ for application 
> developers and maybe SO is a good enough way to determine FAQ since folks can 
> upvote questions.
> 
> Or maybe the FAQ should be about getting started and SO will cover harder 
> questions.  I'm not sure it matters.  I'll be happy if folks are asking 
> questions because it means they are using Royale.  So try something, let's 
> see how it feels and adjust as we go.
> 
> My main point in my previous post was to encourage us to use the public repos 
> and wikis to lower the effort for others to contribute.
> 
> My 2 cents,
> -Alex
> 
> On 4/30/19, 10:14 PM, "Dany Dhondt"  wrote:
> 
>Hi Alex,
> 
>Would it be an idea to launch every new question on this list with a [FAQ] 
> prefix, discuss it and when the answer is accepted, post it to the Faq 
> section?
> 
>Dany
> 
>> Op 1 mei 2019, om 00:45 heeft 

RE: Example of access external JS using Apache Royale

[Yishay Weiss]

How can use the TypeScript definitions to create typedefs?

>Looks like there is TypeScript defnitions for lodash on DefinitelyTyped and 
>Moment ships >with a TypeScript definitions.

On 4/30/19, 10:18 PM, "Dany Dhondt"  wrote:

Wouldn’t it be a nice proof of concept if we tried to implement a widely 
used js lib into Royale?
There are a lot of js packages that are used thousands of times a day, like 
moment.js, lodash, …

Dany

> Op 1 mei 2019, om 01:13 heeft Alex Harui  het 
volgende geschreven:
>
> Isn't the ACE editor already an example?  Or maybe there are different 
scenarios for external JS usage.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 4/30/19, 2:42 PM, "Carlos Rovira" mailto:carlosrov...@apache.org>> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm planing to make a blog example about using external JS or CSS in 
Apache
>Royale since people ask for it, and I think is one of the key points 
for
>people that wants to use Royale.
>My plan is to create a simple example that imports a JS script and 
then use
>bracket access. The example in concrete will use the script for 
coloring
>code that we use in TDJ that is external to Royale to show how we do 
it.
>
>But I think that's just one of the ways to use external JS (bracket
>notation access).
>I think there's more:
>- dot notation -> but this required typedefs (Let me know if I'm 
wrong).
>and in that case, I don't have clear where we can add code to typedefs 
to
>do this. In the other way, how users can do something like this in 
their
>codebases. For me this is unexplored terrain, so hope others that knows
>about it could give some techniques, or point to some docs if we 
already
>has something. Maybe it could be great they could write some doc in our
>GitHub pages
>
>- More ways?? Let me know.
>
>I can work on this in few days , hope you could let me know about those
>alternate methods I didn't control
>
>thanks
>
>--
>Carlos Rovira
>
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosroviradata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf423a553176c417709a808d6cdf47e15%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636922847343802698sdata=aE74z47Qoowlb3b6KZpzpd6jsRY06RIq74BNhakX5ew%3Dreserved=0
 

Re: Example of access external JS using Apache Royale

[Alex Harui]

The more JS libs we work with the better, it is simply a question of who is 
going to do it.  We already have examples that show the beginnings of using 
JQuery, CreateJS, the ACE Editor, Flat (a Bootstrap theme), and a more complete 
implementation of MaterialDesignLite.  I also have an example of using a 
Cordova BarCode Scanner plugin in a mobile app.

I'm not familiar with Moment.js and Lodash.  They look like non-UI libraries 
which would be integrated with Royale in a different way (via typedefs).  Looks 
like there is TypeScript defnitions for lodash on DefinitelyTyped and Moment 
ships with a TypeScript definitions.

HTH,
-Alex

On 4/30/19, 10:18 PM, "Dany Dhondt"  wrote:

Wouldn’t it be a nice proof of concept if we tried to implement a widely 
used js lib into Royale?
There are a lot of js packages that are used thousands of times a day, like 
moment.js, lodash, …

Dany

> Op 1 mei 2019, om 01:13 heeft Alex Harui  het 
volgende geschreven:
> 
> Isn't the ACE editor already an example?  Or maybe there are different 
scenarios for external JS usage.
> 
> -Alex
> 
> On 4/30/19, 2:42 PM, "Carlos Rovira" mailto:carlosrov...@apache.org>> wrote:
> 
>Hi,
> 
>I'm planing to make a blog example about using external JS or CSS in 
Apache
>Royale since people ask for it, and I think is one of the key points 
for
>people that wants to use Royale.
>My plan is to create a simple example that imports a JS script and 
then use
>bracket access. The example in concrete will use the script for 
coloring
>code that we use in TDJ that is external to Royale to show how we do 
it.
> 
>But I think that's just one of the ways to use external JS (bracket
>notation access).
>I think there's more:
>- dot notation -> but this required typedefs (Let me know if I'm 
wrong).
>and in that case, I don't have clear where we can add code to typedefs 
to
>do this. In the other way, how users can do something like this in 
their
>codebases. For me this is unexplored terrain, so hope others that knows
>about it could give some techniques, or point to some docs if we 
already
>has something. Maybe it could be great they could write some doc in our
>GitHub pages
> 
>- More ways?? Let me know.
> 
>I can work on this in few days , hope you could let me know about those
>alternate methods I didn't control
> 
>thanks
> 
>-- 
>Carlos Rovira
>
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosroviradata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cf423a553176c417709a808d6cdf47e15%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636922847343802698sdata=aE74z47Qoowlb3b6KZpzpd6jsRY06RIq74BNhakX5ew%3Dreserved=0