I have met some good friends when working with Apache Shindig project. Thanks all for the hard work and hope to see and work with you again in other projects.
- Henry On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Raj Janorkar <raj.janor...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you all, really helpful. > > In worst scenario if it closed, > then lets move it to github. > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 11:21 PM, Chris Spiliotopoulos < > chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Ryan, >> >> thanks for the response - points taken. Let's see what the future holds :) >> >> Best regards >> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 4:07 PM, Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> > Hi Chris, thanks for the very thoughtful email. In general I agree with >> > what you are saying. Some more comments inline. >> > >> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM Chris Spiliotopoulos < >> > chrysanthos.spiliotopou...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > > Hi all, >> > > >> > > instead of becoming emotional I prefer sharing some thoughts with >> > everyone >> > > in this thread. Well, to be honest I think that everyone expected this >> > to >> > > happen at some point. Of course not due to lack of support from the >> dev >> > > team - this had always been superb - but rather due to lack of >> awareness >> > > regarding this (IMHO) ground-breaking technology and I'm referring to >> the >> > > gadgets side of things. >> > > >> > > I've been using gadgets for quite a few years and I've managed to >> > convince >> > > people about the benefits of having a fully decoupled system with >> > pluggable >> > > apps either in-house or 3rd party. Of course as I have stated in the >> > past >> > > this had always been a steep curve as very few people are aware of this >> > > technology but in the end everybody would buy in after seeing the >> > results. >> > > During these years I have managed to 'tame the beast' as resources had >> > > always been scattered and very few and eventually was able to put it to >> > > work for producing great dashboard apps and in the future (I hope) >> > > marketplaces as well. >> > > >> > > My personal feeling is that most of the people using Shindig for a long >> > > time now are here for its gadget rendering capabilities and the >> potential >> > > it provides towards a fully decoupled architecture where app devs can >> > work >> > > independently from platform devs but eventually everything can work >> > > together a a whole with minimum orchestration efforts. This has been >> my >> > > personal experience so far anyways. Having said that, I've always felt >> > > that the Shindig project had always been to large / broad in >> > functionality >> > > lacking clearly not dev but rather promotional & awareness efforts. >> > > >> > > Another factor that always helped me rest assured in a way regarding >> its >> > > usefulness and future is that major companies like Google, Atlassian >> and >> > > others with very popular products have also been using this technology >> > as a >> > > core component of their infrastructure until now. Although Google who >> > > open-sourced the tech seems that it progressively deprecates some of >> > their >> > > products who had major touch points with the gadgets spec, still keeps >> it >> > > alive in products like Gmail, Google apps, etc plus they have been >> > hosting >> > > the official Gadgets API site for a long time now. One of the puzzling >> > > questions though is why these companies (apart from the IBM people who >> > kept >> > > the project running) were never openly involved with the promotion and >> > > support of the tech in order to reach broader audiences through >> real-life >> > > use cases? Correct me if I'm wrong but I've come to the conclusion >> that >> > > these companies are maintaining probably ports of certain Shindig >> > > components that have extended them in order to meet their requirements. >> > > This is easy to speculate since reading the documentation of their >> > products >> > > shows clearly that there are extensions not supported by Shindig >> > > out-of-the-box - once I had a chat with a guy working at Jive at the >> time >> > > and he told me that they wrote their own security layer around their >> > gadget >> > > containers. >> > >> > >> > > I'll have to agree with Darren that due to the robustness of the >> > framework >> > > most integrators are more than ok with the standard features it has to >> > > offer and therefore this might have caused the side-effect to the >> > > maintainers to since there are no new requests / ticket activities then >> > > this framework has fulfilled its purpose and has become out of fashion. >> > I >> > > personally think that gadget tech has a future and a lot to offer when >> it >> > > comes down to specific use cases - dashboards and marketplaces being a >> > > couple for starters. After I received this mail today morning, I had a >> > > quick search on the web to see if there are any real alternatives but I >> > > found none. Has the plug-n-play model on the web become old fashioned >> > > then? Are composable web apps like dashboards coming to an end? I >> > don't >> > > think so. >> > > >> > > I have not seen anything else that is as robust as gadgets so far, >> > although I have heard some buzz around these things called "web >> components" >> > that sounded like they would do something similar. I never really looked >> > into it though. I think gadgets are still the best choice when it comes >> to >> > allowing 3rd party apps to be integrated into a platform. >> > >> > >> > > It would be really interesting to get in touch with the aforementioned >> > > companies and ask them what are their plans regarding the >> infrastructure >> > > they have invested on for years. Will they be switching to something >> > new? >> > > Are they willing to port the project and maintain it under a different >> > > perspective? >> > > >> > There are certainly a number of companies that have consumed Shindig and >> > used it in well established products that won't be going away any time >> > soon. Some have chosen to fork the code base, others have not. And you >> > are right most that have consumed the technology rarely promote it or >> drive >> > features back into it. When I worked on the team using Shindig in IBM (I >> > don't any longer) we made a very conscious effort to not fork the code >> base >> > and drive whatever fixes and features we needed through the open source >> > project. Hence we also spend some time promoting the open source project >> > as well. However for the past year or so IBM has slowed down its effort >> in >> > Shindig and since I no longer work on the team I can't really speak to >> what >> > the future holds. >> > >> > > >> > > Having said all that my personal belief is that gadget technology >> > deserves >> > > a better luck through proper communication and reach to broader >> developer >> > > audiences. The only way I can see that happening is through a >> > > modernization / revamp process of marketing / reference / tutorial >> > material >> > > and transfer to a more popular collaboration environment like GitHub. >> My >> > > personal experience for doing this sort of thing last year through the >> > > standard Apache process led to a dead-end - I have nothing against >> formal >> > > processes, but when things are more about bureaucracy and old-school >> > stuff >> > > rather than moving forward to the present then I start to lose >> interest. >> > > On the other hand, if a bunch of us decided to do something very simple >> > as >> > > creating a Jekyll site on GitHub with a few tutorials and a number of >> > > ready-to-use artifacts making use of new age techs like Docker >> containers >> > > to start sharing our experiences then we would have more success I >> guess >> > > reaching out to younger developers and diverse audiences. Most of us >> are >> > > already doing this for our companies, why not share the foundation work >> > > with others and start building a community? >> > > >> > We have not officially terminated the project yet, the board will not >> meet >> > until the 21st. If there is enough interest from the community Shindig >> can >> > live on. However I for one would be stepping down as the PMC chair as I >> > just dont have the time to revamp and drive the project forward anymore. >> > If there is enough interest than the question becomes does Shindig remain >> > an Apache project or something outside of the foundation itself. (We can >> > move the code to GitHub by the way even as an Apache project). I guess >> > that would be up to the people who want to keep the project going. >> > >> > > >> > > Lack of development activity doesn't necessarily mean lack of interest >> or >> > > potential. In Shindig's case this is a good thing because we have a >> > stable >> > > framework in our hands. But most of the people in the tech business >> > > doesn't know such a thing exists. And I'm sure that this is not >> > > irreversible. >> > > >> > > Kind regards, >> > > Chris >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Raj Janorkar <raj.janor...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Hi Ryan, >> > > > >> > > > This is really sad news. >> > > > I am really thankful of your and dev team support you all helped me >> > lot. >> > > > >> > > > As Darren Said Shindig is very much stable and i dont see any isues >> at >> > > the >> > > > moment. >> > > > >> > > > Just one thing i can see so many bug fixed since last release. So >> will >> > > > there be final release Ryan? If you can that would be great and may >> be >> > > your >> > > > last favour to all of us and your loved baby Shindig. >> > > > >> > > > I dont see any future of apache rave either, people are so busy >> > switching >> > > > between millions of apps on their iphone. so no gadgets based sites >> are >> > > > their interest But history repeats itself. >> > > > >> > > > lets see what comes next. >> > > > >> > > > Thank you >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On Thursday 8 October 2015, Darren Bond <db...@globalcad.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Dear All, >> > > > > >> > > > > This is very sad news indeed. Apache Shindig is at the core of >> > several >> > > of >> > > > > our very popular sites - we consider it a mature product that does >> > > > exactly >> > > > > what it should, and does it very well indeed. Perhaps that's partly >> > the >> > > > > reason for the lack of user support requests! >> > > > > >> > > > > You, the dev team, kindly helped us resolve a number of issues back >> > in >> > > > > 2014 and we've never looked back since - we love Apache Shindig! >> > > > > >> > > > > Thank you for all your commitment, love, sweat and tears developing >> > the >> > > > > project - we truly value what you have created and will continue >> its >> > > use >> > > > > well into the future. >> > > > > >> > > > > Kind regards, >> > > > > >> > > > > Darren >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter [mailto:rbaxte...@apache.org <javascript:;>] >> > > > > Sent: 07 October 2015 19:32 >> > > > > To: dev@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> >> > > > > Subject: Fwd: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi fellow Shindig Devs, >> > > > > >> > > > > I would like to let you all know that the Shindig PMC has voted to >> > > > > terminate the Shindig project and move it to the attic. I have >> > already >> > > > > informed the Apache board about the termination in this months >> board >> > > > report >> > > > > (below). >> > > > > >> > > > > As most of you have probably noticed we have seen a decline in >> > > > > participation in all aspects of the project over the past months >> and >> > > the >> > > > > downward trend has been happening for over a year now. This can >> > > > certainly >> > > > > be seen in our reports to the board [1]. >> > > > > >> > > > > If anyone has any questions please let me know, and I will be sure >> to >> > > > keep >> > > > > everyone up to date as we transition the project to the attic. >> > Thanks. >> > > > > >> > > > > -Ryan >> > > > > >> > > > > [1] >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/SHINDIG/Board+Reports >> > > > > >> > > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> > > > > From: Ryan Baxter <rbaxte...@apache.org <javascript:;>> >> > > > > Date: Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:29 PM >> > > > > Subject: Terminate the Apache Shindig Project >> > > > > To: bo...@apache.org <javascript:;> <bo...@apache.org >> > <javascript:;>> >> > > > > Cc: priv...@shindig.apache.org <javascript:;> < >> > > > priv...@shindig.apache.org >> > > > > <javascript:;>> >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > WHEREAS, the Project Management Committee of the Apache >> DirectMemory >> > > > > project has chosen by vote to recommend moving the project to the >> > > Attic; >> > > > > and >> > > > > >> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it no longer in the best >> > interest >> > > > of >> > > > > the Foundation to continue the Apache Shindig project due to >> > > inactivity; >> > > > > >> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig project is >> > > hereby >> > > > > terminated; and be it further >> > > > > >> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Attic PMC be and hereby is tasked with oversight >> > > over >> > > > > the software developed by the Apache Shindig Project; and be it >> > further >> > > > > >> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Shindig" is >> > hereby >> > > > > terminated; and be it further >> > > > > >> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Shindig PMC is hereby terminated. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Chris Spiliotopoulos >> > > >> > > Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn >> > > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter >> > > <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris Spiliotopoulos >> >> Solutions Architect | @LinkedIn >> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/chris-spiliotopoulos>| @Twitter >> <https://twitter.com/chefArchitect> >>
