Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-26 Thread hiro 
On 3/25/17, Amer  wrote:
>> It is a bug in st and xterm.  tmux and screen handle it by
>> reflowing lines, wrapping them if necessary.
>
> ... And this tmux wrapping is thoroughly broken.
> E.g. https://github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/516
>
>> dvtm makes end of lines invisible [1] but keeps them in memory.
>
> But this idea seems reasonable, as standalone from scrollback.
> No cropping ever. Ah, how it sounds...
>
> And what $COLUMNS will you report to term apps?
> Some of them (like ps) crop their output themselves.
> Some (like cat /proc/self/maps) align data columns on term width.
> So, desired effect still won't be achieved.
> But if you change $COLUMNS it will break much more of other apps.
>
> So, no silver bullet.
>
>

indeed. linux terminals will never stop sucking, the concept is too broken.

but you can always use a real terminal like the one from plan9port and
try to avoid shitty programs that want to know terminal size.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-25 Thread Alexander Krotov 
On Sat, Mar 25, 2017 at 09:55:14PM +0200, Amer wrote:
> > It is a bug in st and xterm.  tmux and screen handle it by 
> > reflowing lines, wrapping them if necessary.
> 
> ... And this tmux wrapping is thoroughly broken.
> E.g. https://github.com/tmux/tmux/issues/516
> 
> > dvtm makes end of lines invisible [1] but keeps them in memory.
> 
> But this idea seems reasonable, as standalone from scrollback.
> No cropping ever. Ah, how it sounds...

Ok, I sent patch to ML, you can test it now.

> And what $COLUMNS will you report to term apps?
> Some of them (like ps) crop their output themselves.
> Some (like cat /proc/self/maps) align data columns on term width.
> So, desired effect still won't be achieved.
> But if you change $COLUMNS it will break much more of other apps.

No doubt COLUMNS should report current size.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-22 Thread Cág 
hiro wrote:

> always found linux terminal scrollback buffers unusable,
> so I try not to rely on it at all.

Makes sense when you can simply tee(1) a dynamic output
or less(1) a static one. Especially convenient when searching
for  compiling errors/warnings. Matter of taste though.

--
Cág

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-22 Thread hiro 
what leander says finally makes more sense.
sadly scrollback, command history, etc. is way too crude.
always found linux terminal scrollback buffers unusable, so I try not
to rely on it at all.
example: make the terminal smaller, make it bigger again: lines have
been cut off...

On 3/21/17, Leander S. Harding  wrote:
> This conversation comes around periodically, and the thing no-one ever
> seems to mention is: now these images are in your scrollback and as
> you scroll through what you're doing, you seem them instead of just
> the reference beginning 'feh ...'. This is really useful if you use
> scrollback Matlab-style as a sort of externalized medium-term memory
> like I do.
>
> That doesn't mean I think st should become Terminology, mind, but
> there *is* a use-case here.
>
> Now, while we're dreaming, what'd *really* be useful is a Matlab-style
> 'ans' function that pipes out the result of the nth-last command's
> stdout/err. ! and friends aren't suitable because the output might be
> different on re-run - I'm talking about grabbing what got written to
> the terminal since the last shell prompt.
>
> Should be pretty easy to implement with something like dvtm's select pipe.
>
> -Leander
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:10 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
>> graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
>> now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
>> instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
>> display them in a local terminal?!
>>
>> i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
>> graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
>> in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?
>>
>> On 3/20/17, Laslo Hunhold  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
>>> Alexander Krotov  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Alexander,
>>>
 I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
 https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel
>>>
>>> this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
>>> images over an SSH-connection.
>>>
 Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
 to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
 implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
 to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
 going to do it now, just an idea.
>>>
>>> There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
>>> code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?
>>>
>>> With best regards
>>>
>>> Laslo
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laslo Hunhold 
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-21 Thread Leander S. Harding 
This conversation comes around periodically, and the thing no-one ever
seems to mention is: now these images are in your scrollback and as
you scroll through what you're doing, you seem them instead of just
the reference beginning 'feh ...'. This is really useful if you use
scrollback Matlab-style as a sort of externalized medium-term memory
like I do.

That doesn't mean I think st should become Terminology, mind, but
there *is* a use-case here.

Now, while we're dreaming, what'd *really* be useful is a Matlab-style
'ans' function that pipes out the result of the nth-last command's
stdout/err. ! and friends aren't suitable because the output might be
different on re-run - I'm talking about grabbing what got written to
the terminal since the last shell prompt.

Should be pretty easy to implement with something like dvtm's select pipe.

-Leander

On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 2:10 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
> graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
> now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
> instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
> display them in a local terminal?!
>
> i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
> graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
> in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?
>
> On 3/20/17, Laslo Hunhold  wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
>> Alexander Krotov  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Alexander,
>>
>>> I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
>>> https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel
>>
>> this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
>> images over an SSH-connection.
>>
>>> Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
>>> to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
>>> implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
>>> to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
>>> going to do it now, just an idea.
>>
>> There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
>> code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Laslo
>>
>> --
>> Laslo Hunhold 
>>
>>
>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Alexander Krotov 
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 02:01:16AM +0100, hiro wrote:
> I'm not at all saying that sixel is a hack, I'm just saying it's
> useless. it doesn't solve any important problem in a generic enough
> way.
> drawterm is not just a "graphical terminal", it's more more comparable
> to remote X11, remote framebuffer, VNC, all of which are rather
> generic solutions to display anything, not just terminals or images.

Depends on how you define a "graphical terminal".  There is such a
thing as X terminal [1] and I would classify modern RFB-based "thin
clients" as graphical terminals as well.  Even drawterm authors called
it draw*term*.

> it's not impossible to sync the wd on both sides, even though I
> wouldn't personally want such a system. you might be able to figure
> out a better way to explore your remote system. the possibilities are
> endless.

Besides cwd one might also want to pass environment variables and
things like that to graphical programs.  In Plan 9 processes pass
the whole namespace to child and it just naturally includes draw
device.  In unix the closest thing you can probably get is X11
forwarding over SSH, but due to its ad-hoc design it is insecure.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_terminal

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Ben Woolley 
Hi Alexander,

> On Mar 20, 2017, at 5:01 PM, Alexander Krotov  wrote:
> 
> In my case I have a remote system with lots of data that I want to
> explore interactively without copying it to my local machine.  While
> I can display numerical figures in my terminal, I can't display
> plots.  It is a limitation of terminal that I worked around with
> sixels.

Just a suggestion. Have you considered generating HTML index pages and using 
thttpd and dillo? You could use ssh to create a tunnel for a local socket, to 
give it the same type of security layer. That way you don't have to have an 
additional port open to the public. I have done this exact thing for remote 
data with plots. Maybe it could work for you.

Cheers,

Ben

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread hiro 
I'm not at all saying that sixel is a hack, I'm just saying it's
useless. it doesn't solve any important problem in a generic enough
way.
drawterm is not just a "graphical terminal", it's more more comparable
to remote X11, remote framebuffer, VNC, all of which are rather
generic solutions to display anything, not just terminals or images.
it's not impossible to sync the wd on both sides, even though I
wouldn't personally want such a system. you might be able to figure
out a better way to explore your remote system. the possibilities are
endless.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Alexander Krotov 
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 10:10:07AM +0100, hiro wrote:
> why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
> graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
> now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
> instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
> display them in a local terminal?!
> 
> i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
> graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
> in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?

Being able to display graphics does not make terminal a web browser,
it makes it a graphical terminal, just like drawterm.

SSHFS is different.  If I use remote file system I still have to
switch to local image viewer and point it to image.  It then pulls
an image over separate connection, decodes it and displays in another
window.  And each time I switch working directory in remote shell
I have to do the same in local shell or image viewer.

In my case I have a remote system with lots of data that I want to
explore interactively without copying it to my local machine.  While
I can display numerical figures in my terminal, I can't display
plots.  It is a limitation of terminal that I worked around with
sixels.

I agree that sixels is just a hack not to be included into st.  It
is not supported by any graphical programs anyway and does not make
two-way interaction possible.  If I wanted full-blown solution I
would probably use remote framebuffer, but I don't want to setup a
VNC server on each machine just to display some plots.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Marcel Rodrigues 
You can abuse the Unicode "Braille Patterns" [1] to display binary
images on the terminal.
I made a demo a while ago [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braille_Patterns
[2] http://imgur.com/VSZ5Pxy

2017-03-20 15:26 GMT-03:00 hiro <23h...@gmail.com>:
>> We're here to learn and share
> Yes!
>
>>, so offer constructive feedback.
> No!
>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread hiro 
> We're here to learn and share
Yes!

>, so offer constructive feedback.
No!

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Aditya Goturu 
Ah that patch does what I need. Thanks!


On 03/20/2017 10:22 PM, Cág wrote:
> Aditya Goturu wrote:
>
>> I personally like it  because it won't disturb any window
>> layout I had open already.
> One could've used the swallow patch[0].
>
> There's already Terminology[1], the Eclipse of terminal
> emulators.
>
> [0]: http://dwm.suckless.org/patches/swallow
> [1]: https://www.enlightenment.org/about-terminology
>
> --
> Cág

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Cág 
Aditya Goturu wrote:

> I personally like it  because it won't disturb any window
> layout I had open already.

One could've used the swallow patch[0].

There's already Terminology[1], the Eclipse of terminal
emulators.

[0]: http://dwm.suckless.org/patches/swallow
[1]: https://www.enlightenment.org/about-terminology

--
Cág

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Alexander Keller 
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017, at 10:00, robin wrote:
> If only the same honesty could be applied throughout life without bad outcome.

No matter how outrageous the contribution of another party, just don't
be a dick about it. We're all human. We all think something completely
idiotic is a good idea at least fifty or sixty times in our life. We're
here to learn and share, so offer constructive feedback.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Aditya Goturu 
After I thoroughly reconsidered by window manager configuration, yep I agree


On 03/20/2017 07:30 PM, robin wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:16:58AM +0100, hiro wrote:
>> there's nothing convenient in your pityful setup.
>>
>> "won't disturb any window layout I had open already"
>> fix your window manager, seems it's not able to manage shit.
>>
>> that escape you're talking about is called execve and it works just fine.
> Man, I love the spirit of suckless (subset of suckless).
> If only the same honesty could be applied throughout life without bad outcome.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread robin 
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 11:16:58AM +0100, hiro wrote:
> there's nothing convenient in your pityful setup.
> 
> "won't disturb any window layout I had open already"
> fix your window manager, seems it's not able to manage shit.
> 
> that escape you're talking about is called execve and it works just fine.

Man, I love the spirit of suckless (subset of suckless).
If only the same honesty could be applied throughout life without bad outcome.

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread hiro 
there's nothing convenient in your pityful setup.

"won't disturb any window layout I had open already"
fix your window manager, seems it's not able to manage shit.

that escape you're talking about is called execve and it works just fine.

On 3/20/17, Aditya Goturu  wrote:
> One could argue its a little more convenient. I personally like it
> because it won't disturb any window layout I had open already. Here's a
> thought: Rather than adding all the code to the terminal, a simple patch
> could be made which detects a certain escape and will pipe everything
> after that for X bytes into some image viewer. That could be another
> separate program. And we don't need to use sixel, we just push the raw
> farbfeld.
>
> On 03/20/2017 02:40 PM, hiro wrote:
>> why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
>> graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
>> now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
>> instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
>> display them in a local terminal?!
>>
>> i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
>> graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
>> in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?
>>
>> On 3/20/17, Laslo Hunhold  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
>>> Alexander Krotov  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Alexander,
>>>
 I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
 https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel
>>> this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
>>> images over an SSH-connection.
>>>
 Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
 to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
 implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
 to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
 going to do it now, just an idea.
>>> There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
>>> code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?
>>>
>>> With best regards
>>>
>>> Laslo
>>>
>>> --
>>> Laslo Hunhold 
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Aditya Goturu 
One could argue its a little more convenient. I personally like it
because it won't disturb any window layout I had open already. Here's a
thought: Rather than adding all the code to the terminal, a simple patch
could be made which detects a certain escape and will pipe everything
after that for X bytes into some image viewer. That could be another
separate program. And we don't need to use sixel, we just push the raw
farbfeld.

On 03/20/2017 02:40 PM, hiro wrote:
> why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
> graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
> now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
> instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
> display them in a local terminal?!
>
> i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
> graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
> in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?
>
> On 3/20/17, Laslo Hunhold  wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
>> Alexander Krotov  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Alexander,
>>
>>> I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
>>> https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel
>> this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
>> images over an SSH-connection.
>>
>>> Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
>>> to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
>>> implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
>>> to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
>>> going to do it now, just an idea.
>> There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
>> code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Laslo
>>
>> --
>> Laslo Hunhold 
>>
>>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread hiro 
why would one want to view images in st, can't your shell start other
graphical programs for that? is st becoming a new kind of web browser
now? and why don't you open remote images using a remote file system
instead of fucking around with remote shells and then trying to
display them in a local terminal?!

i mean even loonix can do this already. sshfs, qiv (or other proper
graphical application of your choice). you even have a window manager
in your same old project here, why not open some windows already?

On 3/20/17, Laslo Hunhold  wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
> Alexander Krotov  wrote:
>
> Hey Alexander,
>
>> I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
>> https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel
>
> this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
> images over an SSH-connection.
>
>> Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
>> to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
>> implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
>> to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
>> going to do it now, just an idea.
>
> There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
> code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?
>
> With best regards
>
> Laslo
>
> --
> Laslo Hunhold 
>
>

Re: [dev] [announce] ff2sixel: view farbfeld images in terminal

2017-03-20 Thread Laslo Hunhold 
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:57:20 +0300
Alexander Krotov  wrote:

Hey Alexander,

> I have crafted a program to convert farbfeld images to sixels:
> https://github.com/ilabdsf/ff2sixel

this is very cool! Sixels are definitely an interesting concept to view
images over an SSH-connection.

> Too bad st does not have a patch to display sixels, so I am going
> to use mlterm when I need to browse images.  One simple way to
> implement it in st is to cut out sixel images, convert them back
> to farbfeld (with separate process) and pass result to lel.  Not
> going to do it now, just an idea.

There were discussions on sixel support in st, and I think even some
code written for it. Can anybody give a status update on that one?

With best regards

Laslo

-- 
Laslo Hunhold