Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[张乎兴(望陶)]

I am personally +1 on switching 6.0.x to CTR.
Just one note here, in http://tomcat.apache.org/svn.html
The following description should be changed after the vote get passed: 
/trunk/ The primary development branch. Patches are committed here using 
Commit-then-Review and then voted on for porting to the release branches using 
Review-then-Commit.

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Keiichi Fujino]

>
> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR
>
>

-- 
> Keiichi.Fujino
> 

Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Ognjen Blagojevic]

On 28.10.2015 23:42, Mark Thomas wrote:

[ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
[X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR


-Ognjen

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Christopher Schultz]

Mark,

On 10/28/15 6:42 PM, Mark Thomas wrote:
> Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
> address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
> forward for some parts of the code.
> 
> RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
> However, RTC also slowed us down.
> 
> The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
> to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
> because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved and
> RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x progressed
> the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.
> 
> I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good. There
> are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
> hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
> on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.
> 
> I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
> branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.
> 
> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

I must admit I kind of like RTC for "mature" products, but on the other
hand Tomcat 7 is quite mature and it's pretty rare that something is
broken. The release process is so painless with Tomcat 7 and later and
rolling another release in case of a regression is easy.

With Tomcat 6, I would be more careful than with later release because
of these two facts:

1. Building Tomcat 6 is somewhat more tricky
2. Test-case coverage is dismal

So, while I do vote in favor of CTR for Tomcat 6, I'd say that we should
probably treat Tomcat 6 as if it were already in maintenance mode, and
only back-port security or other functionality-breaking patches.

-chris

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Rainer Jung]

Am 29.10.2015 um 00:57 schrieb Konstantin Kolinko:

2015-10-29 1:42 GMT+03:00 Mark Thomas :

All,

Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
forward for some parts of the code.

RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
However, RTC also slowed us down.

The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved and
RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x progressed
the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.

I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good. There
are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.

I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.


[ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
[x] Switch 6.0.x to CTR


2. RTC seriously gets in a way, as review rate is slow. After waiting
for several months it is easy to loose track of the original problem.

Historically, I think Mark's work on introduction of automated tests
in Tomcat 7 became a key of success of CTR model for Tomcat 7 and
later.  We do not have automated test in Tomcat 6 yet, but I no longer
consider it a showstopper against CTR.


I agreed also with these comments of Konstantin.

I guess we should not push backports to TC 6 to hard and instead value 
stability over new features there.


Regards,

Rainer

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[jean-frederic clere]

On 10/28/2015 11:42 PM, Mark Thomas wrote:
>  [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Basically there are so few fixes in 6.0.x that the RTC blocks any move
in 6.0.x

Cheers

Jean-Frederic

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Felix Schumacher]

Am 28. Oktober 2015 23:42:08 MEZ, schrieb Mark Thomas :
>All,
>
>Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
>address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
>forward for some parts of the code.
>
>RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
>However, RTC also slowed us down.
>
>The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
>to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
>because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved
>and
>RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x
>progressed
>the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.
>
>I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good.
>There
>are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
>hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
>on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.
>
>I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
>branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this
>change.
>
>[ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
>[x] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Felix

>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark
>
>-
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org
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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Violeta Georgieva]

2015-10-29 0:42 GMT+02:00 Mark Thomas :
>
> All,
>
> Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
> address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
> forward for some parts of the code.
>
> RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
> However, RTC also slowed us down.
>
> The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
> to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
> because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved and
> RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x progressed
> the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.
>
> I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good. There
> are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
> hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
> on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.
>
> I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
> branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this
change.
>
> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Regards,
Violeta

> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Martin Grigorov]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Mark Thomas  wrote:

> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [ X ] Switch 6.0.x to CTR
>

Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Mark Thomas]

On 28/10/2015 23:27, Rémy Maucherat wrote:
> 2015-10-28 23:42 GMT+01:00 Mark Thomas :
> 
>> I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
>> branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.
>>
>> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
>> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR
>>
> Comments:
> - How close is 6.0 from getting only critical fixes and security issues ?

In theory it is there now.

In practise, people back-port additional fixes for bugs that are
unlikely to rate as critical.

> - On the upside for RTC for such a mature branch, it probably improves
> stability.

It makes regressions less likely mainly because the review process takes
so long that any regressions will have emerged in 8.0.x/7.0.x. The
review process itself doesn't seem (to me at least) to be that good at
spotting them.

> I suppose RTC could get it into the commit stream I see: trunk
> -> 8 -> 7 -> and now 6.

Yes, assuming the commit merges cleanly.

Mark


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[VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Mark Thomas]

All,

Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
forward for some parts of the code.

RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
However, RTC also slowed us down.

The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved and
RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x progressed
the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.

I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good. There
are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.

I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.

[ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
[ ] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Thanks,

Mark

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Mark Thomas]

> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Mark

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Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Rémy Maucherat]

2015-10-28 23:42 GMT+01:00 Mark Thomas :

> I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
> branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.
>
> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [X] Switch 6.0.x to CTR
>
> Comments:
- How close is 6.0 from getting only critical fixes and security issues ?
- On the upside for RTC for such a mature branch, it probably improves
stability. I suppose RTC could get it into the commit stream I see: trunk
-> 8 -> 7 -> and now 6.

Rémy

Re: [VOTE] Switch 6.0.x from RTC to CTR

[Konstantin Kolinko]

2015-10-29 1:42 GMT+03:00 Mark Thomas :
> All,
>
> Many years ago, we switched all release branches to RTC primarily to
> address a community problem where we could not agree on the best way
> forward for some parts of the code.
>
> RTC served us well. The disagreements ceased pretty much instantly.
> However, RTC also slowed us down.
>
> The development of 7.0.x started as CTR with a possibility of switching
> to RTC if necessary. It never was. We chose not to switch 7.0.x to RTC
> because the community issues that made RTC necessary had been solved and
> RTC added unnecessary overhead and delay. 8.0.x and now 9.0.x progressed
> the same way. Today, only 6.0.x is RTC.
>
> I believe the use of RTC for 6.0.x is causing more harm than good. There
> are fixes I don't propose for backport to 6.0.x because of the extra
> hassle RTC introduces. I suspect others take a similar approach judging
> on the number of fixes that don't make it back to 6.0.x.
>
> I would therefore like to propose that we switch the 6.0.x release
> branch from RTC to CTR and am therefore calling a VOTE to make this change.
>
> [ ] Continue to use RTC for 6.0.x
> [x] Switch 6.0.x to CTR

Agreed.

1. I think 6.0.x is very close to moving to archive, and archived
branches are CTR.

2. RTC seriously gets in a way, as review rate is slow. After waiting
for several months it is easy to loose track of the original problem.

Historically, I think Mark's work on introduction of automated tests
in Tomcat 7 became a key of success of CTR model for Tomcat 7 and
later.  We do not have automated test in Tomcat 6 yet, but I no longer
consider it a showstopper against CTR.

Best regards,
Konstantin Kolinko

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