Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Mark Thomas]

On 22/06/17 16:18, Mark Thomas wrote:
> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.
> 
> [X] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
> [ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
> [ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time

Mark

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Huxing Zhang]

Hi,

The main reason is RFC6265 is released after IE9, and IE9 is still in our 
supported browser list (though not recommended). 
I'm personally fine with using LegacyCookieProcessor instead of 
RFC6265CookieProcessor for LEGACY issues.
However, it is not easy for an embedded Tomcat in an Spring-boot application to 
switch RFC6265CookieProcessor to LegacyCookieProcessor, unless we change the 
Spring-boot code.
I am thinking of adding an system property, e.g. 
"org.apache.tomcat.util.http.CookieProcessor", to make the process easier.

--
From:Mark Thomas 
Time:2017 Jun 26 (Mon) 17:55
To:Tomcat Developers List 
Subject:Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018


On 26/06/17 03:19, Huxing Zhang wrote:
>> The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
>> I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?
> 
> Also the RFC6265CookieProcessor.  We've experienced several incompatibility 
> with LegacyCookieProcessor.
> For example,  cookies with leading dot is no longer valid in 
> RFC6265CookieProcessor.

Since RFC6265 is clear that the leading '.' should not be there, I'm
reluctant to introduce a change to allow it. Unsurprisingly, it is IE
that needs the leading '.' in some cases.

We have made exceptions for IE in the past. Do we want to do that here?
LegacyCookieProcessor remains an option for those that need to support
this particular quirk of IE.

Personally, I'd prefer not to introduce a new option but I could be
persuaded to support such a change if there was sufficient demand.

Mark


> --
> From:Mark Thomas 
> Time:2017 Jun 24 (Sat) 23:26
> To:Tomcat Developers List 
> Subject:Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018
> 
> 
> On 23/06/17 23:17, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Le 23/06/2017 à 21:15, Christopher Schultz a écrit :
>>
>>> The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
>>> Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
>>> the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).
>>
>> As far as Debian is concerned, the migration to Tomcat 8.5 did happen in
>> Debian 9. But Debian 8 users are stuck with Tomcat 8.0.x until June
>> 2020. Tomcat 8.5 isn't a drop-in replacement for Tomcat 8.0
>> unfortunately, so it's a bit difficult to push this upgrade in a stable
>> distribution.
> 
> If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?
> 
> And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
> drop-in replacement?
> 
> The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
> I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Mark Thomas]

On 26/06/17 13:13, Coty Sutherland wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Mark Thomas  wrote:
>> On 26/06/17 08:12, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>>> Le 24/06/2017 à 17:25, Mark Thomas a écrit :
>>>
 If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?
>>>
>>> Yes that would help.
>>>
>>>
 And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
 drop-in replacement?
>>>
>>> The removal of the BIO connectors was the main issue reported. It broke
>>> tomcatjss [1][2], dogtag [3][4] and jglobus [5].
>>
>> That is easily fixable. I've already got a patch to fix that I use as
>> $work that I can pull in.
> 
> That fix won't work for tomcatjss because they use the socket directly
> iirc. Short of putting the connector back tomcatjss has to be updated
> to work with NIO before it will work again.

:(

I don't see a full restoration of BIO happening in 8.5.x.

> I'm trying to make it easy
> on the Fedora folks by not updating to 8.5 until they have a solution
> for dogtag, so the sooner that is resolved (I think we've already made
> suggestions on how to fix it) the sooner I can update Fedora Rawhide
> to 8.5 and push for adoption there.

If there is anything we can do in Tomcat to make that process easier
then do speak up.

Mark


> 
 Anything else?
>>>
>>> I can't remember of other issues with the transition to 8.5.
>>
>> OK, that is pretty good news then.
>>
>> Assuming we get the BIO issue fixed, might a transition to 8.5.x be
>> looked at again? If any additional issues come up I'm sure the Tomcat
>> community would be willing to discuss options for resolving them.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>>
>>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://github.com/dogtagpki/tomcatjss
>>> [2] https://bugs.debian.org/846677
>>> [3] http://pki.fedoraproject.org
>>> [4] https://bugs.debian.org/846714
>>> [5] https://bugs.debian.org/846723
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Coty Sutherland]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Mark Thomas  wrote:
> On 26/06/17 08:12, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Le 24/06/2017 à 17:25, Mark Thomas a écrit :
>>
>>> If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?
>>
>> Yes that would help.
>>
>>
>>> And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
>>> drop-in replacement?
>>
>> The removal of the BIO connectors was the main issue reported. It broke
>> tomcatjss [1][2], dogtag [3][4] and jglobus [5].
>
> That is easily fixable. I've already got a patch to fix that I use as
> $work that I can pull in.

That fix won't work for tomcatjss because they use the socket directly
iirc. Short of putting the connector back tomcatjss has to be updated
to work with NIO before it will work again. I'm trying to make it easy
on the Fedora folks by not updating to 8.5 until they have a solution
for dogtag, so the sooner that is resolved (I think we've already made
suggestions on how to fix it) the sooner I can update Fedora Rawhide
to 8.5 and push for adoption there.

>>> Anything else?
>>
>> I can't remember of other issues with the transition to 8.5.
>
> OK, that is pretty good news then.
>
> Assuming we get the BIO issue fixed, might a transition to 8.5.x be
> looked at again? If any additional issues come up I'm sure the Tomcat
> community would be willing to discuss options for resolving them.
>
> Mark
>
>>
>> Emmanuel Bourg
>>
>>
>> [1] https://github.com/dogtagpki/tomcatjss
>> [2] https://bugs.debian.org/846677
>> [3] http://pki.fedoraproject.org
>> [4] https://bugs.debian.org/846714
>> [5] https://bugs.debian.org/846723
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Mark Thomas]

On 26/06/17 03:19, Huxing Zhang wrote:
>> The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
>> I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?
> 
> Also the RFC6265CookieProcessor.  We've experienced several incompatibility 
> with LegacyCookieProcessor.
> For example,  cookies with leading dot is no longer valid in 
> RFC6265CookieProcessor.

Since RFC6265 is clear that the leading '.' should not be there, I'm
reluctant to introduce a change to allow it. Unsurprisingly, it is IE
that needs the leading '.' in some cases.

We have made exceptions for IE in the past. Do we want to do that here?
LegacyCookieProcessor remains an option for those that need to support
this particular quirk of IE.

Personally, I'd prefer not to introduce a new option but I could be
persuaded to support such a change if there was sufficient demand.

Mark


> --
> From:Mark Thomas 
> Time:2017 Jun 24 (Sat) 23:26
> To:Tomcat Developers List 
> Subject:Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018
> 
> 
> On 23/06/17 23:17, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
>> Le 23/06/2017 à 21:15, Christopher Schultz a écrit :
>>
>>> The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
>>> Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
>>> the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).
>>
>> As far as Debian is concerned, the migration to Tomcat 8.5 did happen in
>> Debian 9. But Debian 8 users are stuck with Tomcat 8.0.x until June
>> 2020. Tomcat 8.5 isn't a drop-in replacement for Tomcat 8.0
>> unfortunately, so it's a bit difficult to push this upgrade in a stable
>> distribution.
> 
> If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?
> 
> And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
> drop-in replacement?
> 
> The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
> I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Mark Thomas]

On 26/06/17 08:12, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 24/06/2017 à 17:25, Mark Thomas a écrit :
> 
>> If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?
> 
> Yes that would help.
> 
> 
>> And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
>> drop-in replacement?
> 
> The removal of the BIO connectors was the main issue reported. It broke
> tomcatjss [1][2], dogtag [3][4] and jglobus [5].

That is easily fixable. I've already got a patch to fix that I use as
$work that I can pull in.

>> Anything else?
> 
> I can't remember of other issues with the transition to 8.5.

OK, that is pretty good news then.

Assuming we get the BIO issue fixed, might a transition to 8.5.x be
looked at again? If any additional issues come up I'm sure the Tomcat
community would be willing to discuss options for resolving them.

Mark

> 
> Emmanuel Bourg
> 
> 
> [1] https://github.com/dogtagpki/tomcatjss
> [2] https://bugs.debian.org/846677
> [3] http://pki.fedoraproject.org
> [4] https://bugs.debian.org/846714
> [5] https://bugs.debian.org/846723
> 
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Le 24/06/2017 à 17:25, Mark Thomas a écrit :

> If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?

Yes that would help.


> And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
> drop-in replacement?

The removal of the BIO connectors was the main issue reported. It broke
tomcatjss [1][2], dogtag [3][4] and jglobus [5].


> Anything else?

I can't remember of other issues with the transition to 8.5.

Emmanuel Bourg


[1] https://github.com/dogtagpki/tomcatjss
[2] https://bugs.debian.org/846677
[3] http://pki.fedoraproject.org
[4] https://bugs.debian.org/846714
[5] https://bugs.debian.org/846723

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Huxing Zhang]

> The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
> I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?

Also the RFC6265CookieProcessor.  We've experienced several incompatibility 
with LegacyCookieProcessor.
For example,  cookies with leading dot is no longer valid in 
RFC6265CookieProcessor.
--
From:Mark Thomas 
Time:2017 Jun 24 (Sat) 23:26
To:Tomcat Developers List 
Subject:Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018


On 23/06/17 23:17, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 23/06/2017 à 21:15, Christopher Schultz a écrit :
> 
>> The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
>> Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
>> the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).
> 
> As far as Debian is concerned, the migration to Tomcat 8.5 did happen in
> Debian 9. But Debian 8 users are stuck with Tomcat 8.0.x until June
> 2020. Tomcat 8.5 isn't a drop-in replacement for Tomcat 8.0
> unfortunately, so it's a bit difficult to push this upgrade in a stable
> distribution.

If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?

And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
drop-in replacement?

The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?

Mark


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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Mark Thomas]

On 23/06/17 23:17, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 23/06/2017 à 21:15, Christopher Schultz a écrit :
> 
>> The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
>> Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
>> the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).
> 
> As far as Debian is concerned, the migration to Tomcat 8.5 did happen in
> Debian 9. But Debian 8 users are stuck with Tomcat 8.0.x until June
> 2020. Tomcat 8.5 isn't a drop-in replacement for Tomcat 8.0
> unfortunately, so it's a bit difficult to push this upgrade in a stable
> distribution.

If 8.5.x was a drop-in replacement would that make a difference?

And as a follow-up, what would need to change so 8.5.x was viewed a
drop-in replacement?

The only thing I can think of is lack of support for the BIO connectors.
I have an easy fix for that if there is interest. Anything else?

Mark


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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Rainer Jung]

Am 22.06.2017 um 17:18 schrieb Mark Thomas:

We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.

[X] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
[ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
[ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time


+1

Thanks and regards,

Rainer

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Le 23/06/2017 à 21:15, Christopher Schultz a écrit :

> The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
> Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
> the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).

As far as Debian is concerned, the migration to Tomcat 8.5 did happen in
Debian 9. But Debian 8 users are stuck with Tomcat 8.0.x until June
2020. Tomcat 8.5 isn't a drop-in replacement for Tomcat 8.0
unfortunately, so it's a bit difficult to push this upgrade in a stable
distribution.

Emmanuel Bourg

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Christopher Schultz]

Emmanuel,

On 6/23/17 11:35 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 23/06/2017 à 16:29, Christopher Schultz a écrit :
> 
>> Can you clarify: you voted to NOT ANNOUNCE Tomcat 8.0 EOL now, but it's
>> not very kind to consumers to surprise them in 2018 by saying "security
>> patches only" sometime later.
>>
>> Why not state NOW that we will be EOLing Tomcat 8.0 in 2018 and starting
>> NOW we will only provide security patches for it?
> 
> My concern is to keep having security support for Tomcat 8.0.x because
> it will still be used by Linux distributions beyond June 2018 (and
> probably others). Tomcat 8.0.x will be only 4 years old at this date,
> that's a rather short life by Tomcat standards.
> 
> I wouldn't mind if feature updates stopped right now and if 8.0.x
> received only security updates from now on (be it EOLed next year or
> not). That would simplify the maintenance and encourage people to
> upgrade to 8.5.

The idea was to encourage package repository maintainers to migrate to
Tomcat 8.5. If we never sundown Tomcat 8.0, they'll never move (witness
the presence of Tomcat 6.0 still lurking around half the Internet).

-chris



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Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Le 23/06/2017 à 16:29, Christopher Schultz a écrit :

> Can you clarify: you voted to NOT ANNOUNCE Tomcat 8.0 EOL now, but it's
> not very kind to consumers to surprise them in 2018 by saying "security
> patches only" sometime later.
> 
> Why not state NOW that we will be EOLing Tomcat 8.0 in 2018 and starting
> NOW we will only provide security patches for it?

My concern is to keep having security support for Tomcat 8.0.x because
it will still be used by Linux distributions beyond June 2018 (and
probably others). Tomcat 8.0.x will be only 4 years old at this date,
that's a rather short life by Tomcat standards.

I wouldn't mind if feature updates stopped right now and if 8.0.x
received only security updates from now on (be it EOLed next year or
not). That would simplify the maintenance and encourage people to
upgrade to 8.5.

Emmanuel Bourg

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Christopher Schultz]

All,

On 6/22/17 11:18 AM, Mark Thomas wrote:
> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a
> vote.>
> [X] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
> [ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
> [ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time

I think Tomcat 8.0 can go into maintenance mode (i.e. security-only)
fairly soon.

-chris



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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Christopher Schultz]

Emmanuel,

On 6/22/17 11:51 AM, Emmanuel Bourg wrote:
> Le 22/06/2017 à 17:18, Mark Thomas a écrit :
>
>> [X] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time
>
> I'd prefer security only releases for Tomcat 8.0.x beyond 30 June 2018
> (or even sooner).

Can you clarify: you voted to NOT ANNOUNCE Tomcat 8.0 EOL now, but it's
not very kind to consumers to surprise them in 2018 by saying "security
patches only" sometime later.

Why not state NOW that we will be EOLing Tomcat 8.0 in 2018 and starting
NOW we will only provide security patches for it?

-chris



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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Huxing Zhang]

[ X ] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018

--
From:Mark Thomas 
Time:2017 Jun 22 (Thu) 23:18
To:Tomcat Developers List 
Subject:[VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018


We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.

[ ] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
[ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
[ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time

Thanks,

Mark

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Coty Sutherland]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:18 AM, Mark Thomas  wrote:
> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.
>
> [x] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Rémy Maucherat]

2017-06-22 10:18 GMT-05:00 Mark Thomas :

> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.
>
> [X] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
> [ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
> [ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time
>
> Rémy

Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Emmanuel Bourg]

Le 22/06/2017 à 17:18, Mark Thomas a écrit :

> [X] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time

I'd prefer security only releases for Tomcat 8.0.x beyond 30 June 2018
(or even sooner).

Emmanuel Bourg

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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Felix Schumacher]

Am 22. Juni 2017 17:18:14 MESZ schrieb Mark Thomas :
>We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a
>vote.
>
>[x] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
>[ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
>[ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time
>

Felix

>Thanks,
>
>Mark
>
>-
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Violeta Georgieva]

2017-06-22 18:18 GMT+03:00 Mark Thomas :
>
> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.
>
> [X] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
> [ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
> [ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time
>

Regards,
Violeta

>
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Re: [VOTE] 8.0.x EOL - 30 June 2018

[Martin Grigorov]

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Mark Thomas  wrote:

> We had a couple of threads discussing this. I think it is time for a vote.
>
> [ X ] +1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for 30 June 2018
> [ ] -1 We should announce 8.0.x EOL for [insert date here]
> [ ] -1 We should not announce 8.0.x EOL at this time
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark
>
>
Regards,
Martin


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