Re: Intent to Implement: New L10n/I18n framework for Gecko

[Makoto Kato]

Hi zb.

I don't turn on ICU on Android version yet due to bug 1262102.  So If
it is only on Desktop browser, it can use it.

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 9:20 AM,   wrote:
> Summary:
>
> Gecko's localization framework has not really changed much in the last 20 
> years and is based on two data formats - DTD and .properties - neither have 
> been designed for localization purposes.
> Our internationalization status is a combination of DIY helper functions, ICU 
> based APIs and ancient code written for Netscape.
> The current situation results in high maintenance burden, lower translation 
> quality and keeps us locked out from the ability to develop new localization 
> related features.
>
> Over last three years we created a modern localization and 
> internationalization infrastructure that we deployed for Firefox OS and put 
> on ECMA standardization path. Now we intent to integrate it into Gecko, and 
> migrate Firefox to it.
>
> We're going to host a session about this project in London, on Friday at 
> 13:15 - 
> https://mozillalondonallhands2016.sched.org/event/79As/the-future-of-l10ni18n-in-firefox-and-gecko
>
> The two pillars are:
>
> 1) Localization
>
> For l10n we intend to base our API on L20n API designed by Axel Hecht, Stas 
> Malolepszy and me and use the newly designed L20n syntax, which is based on 
> ICU's Message Format.
> A single localization format will lower the technical burden and lower the 
> complexity of our ecosystem.
> A new API will also result in cleaner and easier to maintain code base 
> improving quality and security of our products. The new API will provide a 
> resilient runtime fallback, loosening the ties between code and 
> localizations. That will empower more experiments on shipping code and 
> shipping localizations.
>
> 2) Internationalization
>
> For i18n we intend to leverage our current design plan for ECMA 402 (JS I18n 
> spec) and deploy the spec proposals that originally came from FxOS 
> requirements. This will allow us to unify our I18n architecture, reduce code 
> redundancy and end up with Gecko's I18n being the same as JS I18n.
>
>
> The new infrastructure has been designed to work together - L20n ties 
> perfectly into I18n formatters, while parts of L20n API and syntax may end up 
> becoming Web Localization standards proposal.
>
> Our goals are to significantly improve our ability to create high quality 
> multilingual user interfaces, simplify the l10n API for developers, improve 
> error recovery and enable us to innovate.
>
> The first area of innovation that we're planning to build on top of the new 
> infrastructure are "Live Updates" - a technology that will allow us to pull 
> localization resources independently from code base updates enabling 
> scenarios like partial translation releases where the localization is added 
> within a couple days after the product is available.
>
> Bug: Meta bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279002
>
> Current POC: https://github.com/zbraniecki/gecko-dev/tree/l20n
>
> Link to standards:
>
> Intl:
> *) https://tc39.github.io/ecma402/
> *) https://github.com/tc39/ecma402#current-proposals
>- Intl.RelativeTimeFormat ( 
> https://github.com/zbraniecki/intl-relative-time-spec )
>- Intl.PluralRules ( https://github.com/tc39/proposal-intl-plural-rules )
>- Intl.UnitFormat ( 
> https://github.com/zbraniecki/proposal-intl-unit-format )
>- Intl.ListFormat ( 
> https://github.com/zbraniecki/proposal-intl-list-format )
>
> L10n:
> *) http://l20n.org/
> *) https://github.com/l20n/l20n.js
> *) (icu-design proposal) 
> https://sourceforge.net/p/icu/mailman/message/35027629/
>
> Platform coverage:
>
> Our initial plan is to migrate Firefox to the new architecture.
> In the future we'll look into enabling it for Web Extensions and other 
> platform targets.
> As we progress with standardization of the I18n and L10n APIs through ECMA 
> 402 we will expose those APIs to the public.
>
> Estimated or target release:
>
> At this point we do not have a clear visibility into which release we will 
> target. We plan to enable the APIs gradually, starting with L20n JSM module 
> and HTML/XUL bindings. We would like to start landing the first batch of 
> patches over the next month.
>
> Do other browser engines implement this?
>
> Other vendors are working with us to standardize I18n APIs through TC39 
> working group. We plan to standardize most of the new formatters in 4th 
> edition of ECMA 402 and we expect other vendors to implement it then.
> L10n API is less mature and we expect to work with ICU, W3C and TC39 to come 
> up with pieces of API that we will be able to push for standardization.
>
> Please, share any feedback and come to our session in London!
>
> zb.
> ___
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> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
___

Intent to Implement: New L10n/I18n framework for Gecko

[zbraniecki]

Summary: 

Gecko's localization framework has not really changed much in the last 20 years 
and is based on two data formats - DTD and .properties - neither have been 
designed for localization purposes.
Our internationalization status is a combination of DIY helper functions, ICU 
based APIs and ancient code written for Netscape.
The current situation results in high maintenance burden, lower translation 
quality and keeps us locked out from the ability to develop new localization 
related features.

Over last three years we created a modern localization and internationalization 
infrastructure that we deployed for Firefox OS and put on ECMA standardization 
path. Now we intent to integrate it into Gecko, and migrate Firefox to it.

We're going to host a session about this project in London, on Friday at 13:15 
- 
https://mozillalondonallhands2016.sched.org/event/79As/the-future-of-l10ni18n-in-firefox-and-gecko

The two pillars are:

1) Localization

For l10n we intend to base our API on L20n API designed by Axel Hecht, Stas 
Malolepszy and me and use the newly designed L20n syntax, which is based on 
ICU's Message Format.
A single localization format will lower the technical burden and lower the 
complexity of our ecosystem. 
A new API will also result in cleaner and easier to maintain code base 
improving quality and security of our products. The new API will provide a 
resilient runtime fallback, loosening the ties between code and localizations. 
That will empower more experiments on shipping code and shipping localizations.

2) Internationalization

For i18n we intend to leverage our current design plan for ECMA 402 (JS I18n 
spec) and deploy the spec proposals that originally came from FxOS 
requirements. This will allow us to unify our I18n architecture, reduce code 
redundancy and end up with Gecko's I18n being the same as JS I18n.


The new infrastructure has been designed to work together - L20n ties perfectly 
into I18n formatters, while parts of L20n API and syntax may end up becoming 
Web Localization standards proposal.

Our goals are to significantly improve our ability to create high quality 
multilingual user interfaces, simplify the l10n API for developers, improve 
error recovery and enable us to innovate.

The first area of innovation that we're planning to build on top of the new 
infrastructure are "Live Updates" - a technology that will allow us to pull 
localization resources independently from code base updates enabling scenarios 
like partial translation releases where the localization is added within a 
couple days after the product is available.

Bug: Meta bug is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279002

Current POC: https://github.com/zbraniecki/gecko-dev/tree/l20n

Link to standards:

Intl:
*) https://tc39.github.io/ecma402/
*) https://github.com/tc39/ecma402#current-proposals
   - Intl.RelativeTimeFormat ( 
https://github.com/zbraniecki/intl-relative-time-spec )
   - Intl.PluralRules ( https://github.com/tc39/proposal-intl-plural-rules )
   - Intl.UnitFormat ( https://github.com/zbraniecki/proposal-intl-unit-format 
) 
   - Intl.ListFormat ( https://github.com/zbraniecki/proposal-intl-list-format )

L10n:
*) http://l20n.org/
*) https://github.com/l20n/l20n.js
*) (icu-design proposal) https://sourceforge.net/p/icu/mailman/message/35027629/

Platform coverage:

Our initial plan is to migrate Firefox to the new architecture.
In the future we'll look into enabling it for Web Extensions and other platform 
targets.
As we progress with standardization of the I18n and L10n APIs through ECMA 402 
we will expose those APIs to the public.

Estimated or target release: 

At this point we do not have a clear visibility into which release we will 
target. We plan to enable the APIs gradually, starting with L20n JSM module and 
HTML/XUL bindings. We would like to start landing the first batch of patches 
over the next month.

Do other browser engines implement this?

Other vendors are working with us to standardize I18n APIs through TC39 working 
group. We plan to standardize most of the new formatters in 4th edition of ECMA 
402 and we expect other vendors to implement it then.
L10n API is less mature and we expect to work with ICU, W3C and TC39 to come up 
with pieces of API that we will be able to push for standardization.

Please, share any feedback and come to our session in London!

zb.
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Emma Humphries]

The whiteboard field a text blob with no rules, only conventions on
separators (which are not used consistently.) If you misspell a tag,
there's no prompt to correct (unless the browser or os spell checker
recognizes it) and you can get inconsistencies that way.

As for "real tagging system" look, for instance, at Wordpress' tagging
system or Live Journal's before that.

-- Emma

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:03 PM, Jason Duell  wrote:

> Emma,
>
> > it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
> search, and update.
>
> Could we dig into details a little more here?  I assume we could add a
> database index for the whiteboard field if performance is an issue.
> Do we give keywords an enum value or something (so bugzilla can
> index/search them faster)?  I'm not clear on what a "real tag system" means
> concretely here.
>
> thanks!
>
> Jason
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
>
>> There is a ticket for a "proper" tag system,
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266609 which given time,
>> I'd
>> like to get implemented, but with limited resources, this is what I can do
>> now.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Patrick McManus 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > as you note the whiteboard tags are permissionless. That's their killer
>> > property. Keywords as you note are not, that's their critical weakness.
>> >
>> > instead of fixing that situation in the "long term" can we please fix
>> that
>> > as a precondition of converting things? Mozilla doesn't need more
>> > centralized systems. If they can't be 100% automated to be
>> permissionless
>> > (e.g. perhaps because they don't scale) then the new arrangement of
>> things
>> > is definitely worse.
>> >
>> > I'll note that even for triage, our eventual system evolved rapidly and
>> > putting an administrator in the middle to add and drop keywords and
>> > indicies would have just slowed stuff down. Permissionless to me is a
>> > requirement.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be
>> removed?
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries 
>> wrote:
>> >> > tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do
>> it
>> >> by
>> >> > 24 June 2016.
>> >> >
>> >> > We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in
>> bugzilla.
>> >> On
>> >> > one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other
>> >> hand,
>> >> > it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to
>> parse,
>> >> > search, and update.
>> >> >
>> >> > But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
>> >> >
>> >> > The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system,
>> but
>> >> > the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
>> >> > whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
>> >> >
>> >> > To participate:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration
>> component
>> >> for each
>> >> > whiteboard tag you want to convert.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword
>> >> you
>> >> > want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword
>> which
>> >> will
>> >> > appear in the online help.
>> >> >
>> >> > 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords,
>> so be
>> >> > prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
>> >> > existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you
>> about a
>> >> > mass change to your bugs.
>> >> >
>> >> > 4. Make the parent bug,
>> >> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
>> >> > depend on your new bug.
>> >> >
>> >> > 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
>> >> >
>> >> > We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old
>> tag
>> >> > from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other
>> tools
>> >> that
>> >> > consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June
>> 2016.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> >
>> >> > Emma Humphries
>> >> > ___
>> >> > dev-platform mailing list
>> >> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
>> >> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>> >> ___
>> >> firefox-dev mailing list
>> >> firefox-...@mozilla.org
>> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> ___
>> dev-platform mailing list
>> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jason
>
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Chris Peterson]

On 6/8/16 4:03 PM, Jason Duell wrote:

Could we dig into details a little more here?  I assume we could add a
database index for the whiteboard field if performance is an issue.
Do we give keywords an enum value or something (so bugzilla can
index/search them faster)?  I'm not clear on what a "real tag system" means
concretely here.


Most whiteboard fields are fairly structured, with people using [words 
in brackets] or words-with-dashes to group terms. Indexing by all word 
or just pseudo keywords (using brackets or dashes) seems straightforward.


It would be interesting to see a ranked list of the most popular 
whiteboard words. Those would be good candidates for keywords.

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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Jason Duell]

Emma,

> it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
search, and update.

Could we dig into details a little more here?  I assume we could add a
database index for the whiteboard field if performance is an issue.
Do we give keywords an enum value or something (so bugzilla can
index/search them faster)?  I'm not clear on what a "real tag system" means
concretely here.

thanks!

Jason

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:

> There is a ticket for a "proper" tag system,
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266609 which given time, I'd
> like to get implemented, but with limited resources, this is what I can do
> now.
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Patrick McManus 
> wrote:
>
> > as you note the whiteboard tags are permissionless. That's their killer
> > property. Keywords as you note are not, that's their critical weakness.
> >
> > instead of fixing that situation in the "long term" can we please fix
> that
> > as a precondition of converting things? Mozilla doesn't need more
> > centralized systems. If they can't be 100% automated to be permissionless
> > (e.g. perhaps because they don't scale) then the new arrangement of
> things
> > is definitely worse.
> >
> > I'll note that even for triage, our eventual system evolved rapidly and
> > putting an administrator in the middle to add and drop keywords and
> > indicies would have just slowed stuff down. Permissionless to me is a
> > requirement.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries 
> wrote:
> >> > tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do
> it
> >> by
> >> > 24 June 2016.
> >> >
> >> > We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in
> bugzilla.
> >> On
> >> > one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other
> >> hand,
> >> > it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to
> parse,
> >> > search, and update.
> >> >
> >> > But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
> >> >
> >> > The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system,
> but
> >> > the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
> >> > whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
> >> >
> >> > To participate:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component
> >> for each
> >> > whiteboard tag you want to convert.
> >> >
> >> > 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword
> >> you
> >> > want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which
> >> will
> >> > appear in the online help.
> >> >
> >> > 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so
> be
> >> > prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
> >> > existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you
> about a
> >> > mass change to your bugs.
> >> >
> >> > 4. Make the parent bug,
> >> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
> >> > depend on your new bug.
> >> >
> >> > 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
> >> >
> >> > We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old
> tag
> >> > from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools
> >> that
> >> > consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
> >> >
> >> > Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June
> 2016.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers,
> >> >
> >> > Emma Humphries
> >> > ___
> >> > dev-platform mailing list
> >> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> >> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> >> ___
> >> firefox-dev mailing list
> >> firefox-...@mozilla.org
> >> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev
> >>
> >
> >
> ___
> dev-platform mailing list
> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>



-- 

Jason
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Emma Humphries]

There is a ticket for a "proper" tag system,
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1266609 which given time, I'd
like to get implemented, but with limited resources, this is what I can do
now.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Patrick McManus 
wrote:

> as you note the whiteboard tags are permissionless. That's their killer
> property. Keywords as you note are not, that's their critical weakness.
>
> instead of fixing that situation in the "long term" can we please fix that
> as a precondition of converting things? Mozilla doesn't need more
> centralized systems. If they can't be 100% automated to be permissionless
> (e.g. perhaps because they don't scale) then the new arrangement of things
> is definitely worse.
>
> I'll note that even for triage, our eventual system evolved rapidly and
> putting an administrator in the middle to add and drop keywords and
> indicies would have just slowed stuff down. Permissionless to me is a
> requirement.
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta 
> wrote:
>
>> What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
>> > tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it
>> by
>> > 24 June 2016.
>> >
>> > We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla.
>> On
>> > one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other
>> hand,
>> > it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
>> > search, and update.
>> >
>> > But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
>> >
>> > The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
>> > the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
>> > whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
>> >
>> > To participate:
>> >
>> > 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component
>> for each
>> > whiteboard tag you want to convert.
>> >
>> > 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword
>> you
>> > want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which
>> will
>> > appear in the online help.
>> >
>> > 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
>> > prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
>> > existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
>> > mass change to your bugs.
>> >
>> > 4. Make the parent bug,
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
>> > depend on your new bug.
>> >
>> > 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
>> >
>> > We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
>> > from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools
>> that
>> > consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
>> >
>> > Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Emma Humphries
>> > ___
>> > dev-platform mailing list
>> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
>> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>> ___
>> firefox-dev mailing list
>> firefox-...@mozilla.org
>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev
>>
>
>
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Emma Humphries]

Yes, 'amnesty' is probably too strong a term, and 'cleanup' is probably
better.

-- Emma

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:19 PM, Patrick McManus 
wrote:

> that's useful thanks. I think the word amnesty implied the death penalty
> for existing whiteboard tags.
>
> what it sounds like is you're just offering (for a limited time) to do
> conversions on an opt-in basis? That's great.
>
> -P
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta  wrote:
>> >
>> > What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
>> >
>>
>> No, the whiteboard field remains, but any tags migrated will be deleted
>> from existing values.
>>
>> If a tag is used across teams, I'll work out a resolution such as both
>> teams using the new keyword, or specific keywords as long as they don't
>> semantically copy other existing fields.
>>
>>
>> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries 
>> wrote:
>> >> tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do
>> it by
>> >> 24 June 2016.
>> >>
>> >> We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in
>> bugzilla. On
>> >> one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other
>> hand,
>> >> it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
>> >> search, and update.
>> >>
>> >> But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
>> >>
>> >> The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system,
>> but
>> >> the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
>> >> whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
>> >>
>> >> To participate:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component
>> for each
>> >> whiteboard tag you want to convert.
>> >>
>> >> 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword
>> you
>> >> want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which
>> will
>> >> appear in the online help.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so
>> be
>> >> prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
>> >> existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about
>> a
>> >> mass change to your bugs.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Make the parent bug,
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
>> >> depend on your new bug.
>> >>
>> >> 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
>> >>
>> >> We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
>> >> from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools
>> that
>> >> consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
>> >>
>> >> Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >>
>> >> Emma Humphries
>> >> ___
>> >> dev-platform mailing list
>> >> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
>> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
>> ___
>> firefox-dev mailing list
>> firefox-...@mozilla.org
>> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev
>>
>
>
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Patrick McManus]

that's useful thanks. I think the word amnesty implied the death penalty
for existing whiteboard tags.

what it sounds like is you're just offering (for a limited time) to do
conversions on an opt-in basis? That's great.

-P


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta  wrote:
> >
> > What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
> >
>
> No, the whiteboard field remains, but any tags migrated will be deleted
> from existing values.
>
> If a tag is used across teams, I'll work out a resolution such as both
> teams using the new keyword, or specific keywords as long as they don't
> semantically copy other existing fields.
>
>
> >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries 
> wrote:
> >> tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it
> by
> >> 24 June 2016.
> >>
> >> We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla.
> On
> >> one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other
> hand,
> >> it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
> >> search, and update.
> >>
> >> But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
> >>
> >> The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
> >> the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
> >> whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
> >>
> >> To participate:
> >>
> >> 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component
> for each
> >> whiteboard tag you want to convert.
> >>
> >> 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword
> you
> >> want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which
> will
> >> appear in the online help.
> >>
> >> 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
> >> prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
> >> existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
> >> mass change to your bugs.
> >>
> >> 4. Make the parent bug,
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
> >> depend on your new bug.
> >>
> >> 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
> >>
> >> We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
> >> from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools
> that
> >> consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
> >>
> >> Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Emma Humphries
> >> ___
> >> dev-platform mailing list
> >> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> ___
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Emma Humphries]

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta  wrote:
> 
> What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
> 

No, the whiteboard field remains, but any tags migrated will be deleted from 
existing values. 

If a tag is used across teams, I'll work out a resolution such as both teams 
using the new keyword, or specific keywords as long as they don't semantically 
copy other existing fields. 


>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
>> tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it by
>> 24 June 2016.
>> 
>> We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla. On
>> one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other hand,
>> it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
>> search, and update.
>> 
>> But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
>> 
>> The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
>> the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
>> whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
>> 
>> To participate:
>> 
>> 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component for 
>> each
>> whiteboard tag you want to convert.
>> 
>> 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword you
>> want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which will
>> appear in the online help.
>> 
>> 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
>> prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
>> existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
>> mass change to your bugs.
>> 
>> 4. Make the parent bug, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
>> depend on your new bug.
>> 
>> 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
>> 
>> We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
>> from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools that
>> consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
>> 
>> Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Emma Humphries
>> ___
>> dev-platform mailing list
>> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Patrick McManus]

as you note the whiteboard tags are permissionless. That's their killer
property. Keywords as you note are not, that's their critical weakness.

instead of fixing that situation in the "long term" can we please fix that
as a precondition of converting things? Mozilla doesn't need more
centralized systems. If they can't be 100% automated to be permissionless
(e.g. perhaps because they don't scale) then the new arrangement of things
is definitely worse.

I'll note that even for triage, our eventual system evolved rapidly and
putting an administrator in the middle to add and drop keywords and
indicies would have just slowed stuff down. Permissionless to me is a
requirement.


On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Kartikaya Gupta  wrote:

> What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
> > tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it
> by
> > 24 June 2016.
> >
> > We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla.
> On
> > one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other hand,
> > it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
> > search, and update.
> >
> > But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
> >
> > The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
> > the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
> > whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
> >
> > To participate:
> >
> > 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component
> for each
> > whiteboard tag you want to convert.
> >
> > 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword you
> > want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which
> will
> > appear in the online help.
> >
> > 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
> > prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
> > existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
> > mass change to your bugs.
> >
> > 4. Make the parent bug,
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
> > depend on your new bug.
> >
> > 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
> >
> > We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
> > from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools
> that
> > consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
> >
> > Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Emma Humphries
> > ___
> > dev-platform mailing list
> > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
> ___
> firefox-dev mailing list
> firefox-...@mozilla.org
> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/firefox-dev
>
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Re: The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Kartikaya Gupta]

What happens after June 24? Is the whiteboard field going to be removed?

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Emma Humphries  wrote:
> tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it by
> 24 June 2016.
>
> We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla. On
> one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other hand,
> it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
> search, and update.
>
> But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.
>
> The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
> the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
> whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.
>
> To participate:
>
> 1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component for each
> whiteboard tag you want to convert.
>
> 2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword you
> want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which will
> appear in the online help.
>
> 3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
> prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
> existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
> mass change to your bugs.
>
> 4. Make the parent bug, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
> depend on your new bug.
>
> 5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug
>
> We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
> from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools that
> consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.
>
> Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Emma Humphries
> ___
> dev-platform mailing list
> dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
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The Whiteboard Tag Amnesty

[Emma Humphries]

tl;dr -- nominate whiteboard tags you want converted to keywords. Do it by
24 June 2016.

We have a love-hate relationship with the whiteboard field in bugzilla. On
one hand, we can add team-specific meta data to a bug. On the other hand,
it's not a indexed field or a real tag system, making it hard to parse,
search, and update.

But creating keywords is a hassle since you have to request them.

The long term solution is to turn whiteboard into proper tag system, but
the Bugzilla Team's offering to help with some bulk conversion of
whiteboard tags your teams use into keywords.

To participate:

1. Create a Bug in the bugzilla.mozilla.org::Administration component for each
whiteboard tag you want to convert.

2. The bug's description should have the old keyword, the new keyword you
want to replace it with, and the description of this new keyword which will
appear in the online help.

3. Make sure your keyword doesn't conflict with existing keywords, so be
prepared to rename it. If your keyword is semantically similar to an
existing keyword or other existing bugzilla field we'll talk you about a
mass change to your bugs.

4. Make the parent bug, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1279022,
depend on your new bug.

5. CC Emma Humphries on the bug

We will turn your whiteboard tag into a keyword and remove your old tag
from the whiteboard tags, so make sure your dashboards and other tools that
consume Bugzilla's API are updated to account for this.

Please submit your whiteboard fields to convert by Friday 24 June 2016.

Cheers,

Emma Humphries
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Re: Dropping support for VS2013

[Gijs Kruitbosch]

Who is responsible for updating our build documentation about this? It 
seems the docs still don't believe we can even build for sure on VS2015 
(though it's been the recommended compiler for a while now), and list a 
number of SDKs that I'm not convinced you'd actually need to manually 
install if using MSVS2015.


https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Build_Instructions/Simple_Firefox_build/Windows_Firefox_build

It also seems this is largely duplicated with the "windows build 
prerequisites" page which does seem to have been updated. :-\


~ Gijs

On 01/06/2016 00:22, Gregory Szorc wrote:
Heads up: we'll soon be dropping support for building mozilla-central 
with VS2013. Bug 1186064 tracks and the patch has already received r+.


I'm going to wait a few days before landing because this could be 
disruptive and I want to at least give a heads up before I create a 
fire. Please install VS2015 in the next 48 hours to avoid a surprise 
the next time you pull.


(We've previously recommended everyone install VS2015, so this 
announcement should come as no surprise.)



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Re: Intent to remove: Error Console

[Brian Grinstead]

Filed bug 1278368 to remove the code and bug 1278372 to remove the component 
from bugzilla.

Brian

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 7:57 AM, Benjamin Smedberg  wrote:
> 
> \o/
> 
> Is there a bug to track this code removal?
> 
> --BDS
> 
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Brian Grinstead  
> wrote:
> There is an Error Console feature in toolkit that's been replaced by the 
> Browser Console.  We'd like to remove associated code in 
> toolkit/components/console/ and the component in bugzilla (Toolkit: Error 
> Console).  This will also remove the —jsconsole command line flag for 
> consumers that don’t use devtools.
> 
> The code isn't used at all in Firefox, as discussed in 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.developer-tools/XYPqQ58ndX4/discussion.
>   It’s also now possible to migrate usages to the Browser Console i.e. 
> Seamonkey is no longer using it as of bug 1223341.
> 
> Brian
> ___
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> 

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Re: Intent to remove: Error Console

[Benjamin Smedberg]

\o/

Is there a bug to track this code removal?

--BDS

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 4:04 PM, Brian Grinstead 
wrote:

> There is an Error Console feature in toolkit that's been replaced by the
> Browser Console.  We'd like to remove associated code in
> toolkit/components/console/ and the component in bugzilla (Toolkit: Error
> Console).  This will also remove the —jsconsole command line flag for
> consumers that don’t use devtools.
>
> The code isn't used at all in Firefox, as discussed in
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.developer-tools/XYPqQ58ndX4/discussion.
> It’s also now possible to migrate usages to the Browser Console i.e.
> Seamonkey is no longer using it as of bug 1223341.
>
> Brian
> ___
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>
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Re: Searchfox (new code search tool)

[Richard Z]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 09:35:34PM -0700, Bill McCloskey wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I would like to announce a new tool I've been working on for source
> code searching called Searchfox (http://searchfox.org). If you use MXR
> or DXR, I recommend you try Searchfox. Here are some of the benefits:

cool.

Btw - is there any tool to do code search in addons that are published
on AMO and allow source viewing? 

Richard

-- 
Name and OpenPGP keys available from pgp key servers

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Release management during Mozilla London ww

[Sylvestre Ledru]

Hello,

Next week, as announced in February [1], during our workweek in London, we are 
making a pause on the 48 developments.
That means we won't build any beta version. The uplifts are also going to be be 
limited (both from release management andsheriffs).
However, in case of critical or security issues, even if we are going to do our 
best to avoid or postpone it,
doing a dot release for 47 is possible.

On the behalf of the release management team,
Sylvestre

[1] 
https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/02/04/update-on-2016-firefox-release-schedule/
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Mozilla Sheriff Survey

[Carsten Book]

Hi,

When we moved to the "inbound" model of tree management, the Tree Sheriffs
became a crucial part of our engineering infrastructure. The primary
responsibility of the Sheriffs is and will always be to aid developers to
easily, quickly, and seamlessly land their code in the proper location(s)
and ensure that code does not break our automated tests.

But of course there is always room for improvements and ideas how we can
make things better. In order to get a picture from our Community (YOU!) how
things went and how we can improve our day-to day-work we created a Survey!
You can find the Survey here:

http://bit.ly/1tgHtCR

Thanks for taking part in this survey!

Also you can find some of us also in London during the Mozilla All-hands if
you want to talk to us directly!

Cheers,

- Tomcat
on behalf of the Sheriffs Team
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