Re: Visual Studio 2017

[Justin Dolske]

Until we officially support it, can we have mach print out a warning (w/
link to a bug number or wiki page) if you try to build with it? (And, of
course, with some opt-in mechanism to use it anyway.)

ISTR in the past it was relatively common for people who upgraded (or were
just installing the latest on a new system) to run into mysterious failures
and get frustrated.

Justin

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Gregory Szorc  wrote:

> Microsoft announced Visual Studio 2017 RC today. As always, there are some
> compelling reasons to support the new version. They have blogged
> extensively about performance improvements around compiling/linking and IDE
> interactions, which are always exciting.
>
> If you install VS2017 RC today, configure won't detect it. Even if you have
> environment variables set, configure still barfs because paths of things
> within the installation have changed.
>
> Bug 1318143 (alias: vs2017) has been established to track making everything
> work with VS2017.
>
> At this time, we have no timeline for transitioning shipped Firefox
> binaries to VS2017. Obviously we need to wait for VS2017 final. After that,
> we'd likely need some compelling reasons to undergo the transition. We
> will, however, stand up VS2017 builds (likely no to few tests) in
> automation as a tier-2 platform so developers have visibility into VS2017
> compatibility. Bug 1318193 tracks that.
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Re: Intent to ship: CSS Grid

[Tantek Çelik]

Agreed. In the perspective of the increasing shift toward incubation
at W3C (before WG and certainly before WD or CR), subgrid has yet to
be sufficiently incubated to really implement in the context of a
spec, unlike the rest of grid which has been prototyped with multiple
iterations (by other implementers) to get us where we are (hence it's
a great thing that we're shipping grid itself, well done Mats).

The circularity that Simon refers to can be broken by prototyping
subgrid separately, i.e. behind a feature flag, and iterating with
developer feedback, and getting that iteration in the spec, and then
taking that feature to an actual CR with actual shipping
implementations.

Unless by some lucky guess subgrid has been perfectly specified
without incubation, we should be ok with it being dropped from the
spec, or rather, pushed out into a future version.

Tantek


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 1:19 AM, Jet Villegas  wrote:
> Unlike other parts of the Grid spec, we don't have sufficient implementor
> feedback (from ourselves or others) to evaluate the subgrid feature's
> suitability for implementation. That will take time to get, and we do plan
> to get it, but we want Grid available to people while we do so. That's not
> the same as "nobody's implementing, so we won't either."
>
> --Jet
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Simon Sapin  wrote:
>
>> On 16/11/16 01:40, Mats Palmgren wrote:
>>
>>> Note about the 'subgrid' feature:
>>> We will *not* support the subgrid feature of CSS Grid in this first
>>> release.  This feature is marked as "at-risk" in the spec and thus
>>> not needed for spec compliance.  (Chrome is likewise not going to
>>> support subgrid in their first release.)
>>>
>>
>> I don’t have a strong opinion on subgrid specifically, and other arguments
>> can be made, but I’d like to note:
>>
>> It is marked at-risk in the spec *because* several vendors had said they
>> might not support it at first. So using this to justify not supporting it
>> is a circular argument.
>>
>> --
>> Simon Sapin
>>
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Re: Intent to ship: CSS Grid

[Jet Villegas]

Unlike other parts of the Grid spec, we don't have sufficient implementor
feedback (from ourselves or others) to evaluate the subgrid feature's
suitability for implementation. That will take time to get, and we do plan
to get it, but we want Grid available to people while we do so. That's not
the same as "nobody's implementing, so we won't either."

--Jet

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Simon Sapin  wrote:

> On 16/11/16 01:40, Mats Palmgren wrote:
>
>> Note about the 'subgrid' feature:
>> We will *not* support the subgrid feature of CSS Grid in this first
>> release.  This feature is marked as "at-risk" in the spec and thus
>> not needed for spec compliance.  (Chrome is likewise not going to
>> support subgrid in their first release.)
>>
>
> I don’t have a strong opinion on subgrid specifically, and other arguments
> can be made, but I’d like to note:
>
> It is marked at-risk in the spec *because* several vendors had said they
> might not support it at first. So using this to justify not supporting it
> is a circular argument.
>
> --
> Simon Sapin
>
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