Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[anastiaarlingtontaylor]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:02:42 AM UTC+5:30, Jonathan Kew wrote:
> As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for 
> OpenType Font Variations on by default.
> 
> It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and 
> gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.
> 
> Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
>Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
>Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
>MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)
> 
> Bug to turn on by default: 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163
> 
> This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" 
> thread: 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/soc.culture.liberia/IyH3vHwRzJo
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 13/05/2018 14:01, rosesharon...@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:32:42 PM UTC-7, Jonathan Kew wrote:

As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for
OpenType Font Variations on by default.

It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and
gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.

Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)

Bug to turn on by default:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163

This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement"
thread:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion




I'm not sure if this was intended as a question, or what?

Anyhow, to update here: we decided to hold back from shipping on 61, to 
give more time to be feature-complete and well-tested. So Variable Fonts 
is currently on track to ship in Firefox 62.


JK
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[rosesharon915]

On Monday, March 19, 2018 at 3:32:42 PM UTC-7, Jonathan Kew wrote:
> As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for 
> OpenType Font Variations on by default.
> 
> It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and 
> gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.
> 
> Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
>Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
>Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
>MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)
> 
> Bug to turn on by default: 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163
> 
> This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" 
> thread: 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion

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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Dominik Röttsches]

Hi Jonathan,

This led me to believe something isn't completely hooked up on
> further experimentation, though, I find that it does work as expected if
> the font is loaded from a @font-face resource with the appropriate
> descriptors. So this seems to be only a limitation for installed fonts?


Yes, this is the reason, currently we do not support variable system fonts
on platforms other than Mac. In your example, it also only works if you
load the font through src: url(), not local() for example. This limitation
is tracked in Chromium issue 792874
. I have
plans to work on this soon.

Dominik
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 21/03/2018 08:03, dr...@chromium.org wrote:


font-{weight,stretch,style} are parsed and hooked up to the variable fonts 
rasterization backend since we initially shipped OpenType Variations in M62. I 
implemented this in Blink, so if you are observing any issues, mind sharing 
them? I'd be happy to take a look.


Hi Dominik,

Thanks for the note - that's interesting. Maybe I'm missing something?

Simple testcase (requires Avenir Next Variable installed):




body { font-family: Avenir Next Variable; font-size: 24px; }



for (i = 400; i <= 700; i += 50) {
  e = document.createElement("div");
  e.textContent = "font-weight " + i;
  e.style.fontWeight = i;
  document.body.appendChild(e);
  e = document.createElement("div");
  e.textContent = "variation wght " + i;
  e.style.fontVariationSettings = "'wght' " + i;
  document.body.appendChild(e);
}


When I view this with Chrome, I see the expected range of weights for 
the elements that use font-variation-settings. But those using 
font-weight are all rendered with the default weight of Avenir, just 
with a slight (and constant) synthetic-bold effect applied at 
font-weight:550 and higher.


This led me to believe something isn't completely hooked up on 
further experimentation, though, I find that it does work as expected if 
the font is loaded from a @font-face resource with the appropriate 
descriptors. So this seems to be only a limitation for installed fonts?


JK
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[drott]

Hi Jonathan,

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:16:42 PM UTC+2, Jonathan Kew wrote:

> (Note that Blink also hasn't fully implemented this, at least judging by 
> testing of Chrome stable: they have done the CSS parsing extensions, but 
> not hooked it up to the rendering side. Maybe that's in Canary by now? 
> Anyhow, just a data point that supports doing a gradual roll-out of the 
> feature, starting with font-variation-settings, which is the most basic 
> piece of support.)

font-{weight,stretch,style} are parsed and hooked up to the variable fonts 
rasterization backend since we initially shipped OpenType Variations in M62. I 
implemented this in Blink, so if you are observing any issues, mind sharing 
them? I'd be happy to take a look.

We do ship our own FreeType on Linux and Android, so we have support for 
Variations there independent of system FreeType. On Windows, it's done through 
FreeType and available everywhere. On Mac we use FreeType for Mac OS < 10.12.

Dominik
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 20/03/2018 20:50, gwhi...@gmail.com wrote:



Will 61 bring support for font-optical-sizing as well?


Yes; it's behind the same pref as font-variation-settings, so the two 
properties will be enabled together.

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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[gwhitms]

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:39:36 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Kew wrote:
> On 19/03/2018 22:42, L. David Baron wrote:
> 
> > Is there something with a little more detail about how our (a)
> > feature set and (b) platform support compares with what other
> > engines are shipping? 
> 
> That sounds like it could be a worthwhile blog post somewhere
> 
> In brief: everyone supports font-variation-settings, the most basic tool 
> authors can use to control these fonts.
> 
> The CSS spec also calls for higher-level linkage to (enhanced forms of) 
> the font-{weight,stretch,style} properties. Edge implements this; Blink 
> currently accepts [at least some of] the extended CSS values (e.g. 
> non-integer font-weight values) but doesn't have them hooked up to 
> variation font rendering; we don't yet implement this.
> 
> Regarding platform support: Edge, Safari and Firefox only support 
> variation fonts on up-to-date versions of Win10 and macOS, while Chrome 
> (AIUI) also supports them on older versions (by shipping an embedded 
> copy of FreeType to use in place of the system font rasterizer when it 
> doesn't have variation support).
> 
> On Linux, official Mozilla builds have variation support; distro builds 
> that use --with-system-freetype will also work provided the system 
> freetype is fairly recent, but old distros may still have a freetype 
> that lacks variation support.
> 
> I haven't tested recent Chrome on Android but I presume they have the 
> same support there as on desktop (as does Firefox).
> 
> So to sum up
> 
>  > That is, are there substantive cases where
>  > some systems will have variation font support on other browsers but
>  > not Firefox,
> 
> On older releases of macOS and Windows, Chrome will have it but Firefox 
> won't (neither will Safari/IE/Edge, however).
> 
>  > or substantive features that other implementations will
>  > be shipping but we won't?
> 
> Support for the enhanced font-{weight,stretch,style} properties is 
> currently only shipping in Edge, AFAICT; Blink has parsing but not full 
> rendering support.


Will 61 bring support for font-optical-sizing as well?
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 19/03/2018 22:42, L. David Baron wrote:


Is there something with a little more detail about how our (a)
feature set and (b) platform support compares with what other
engines are shipping? 


That sounds like it could be a worthwhile blog post somewhere

In brief: everyone supports font-variation-settings, the most basic tool 
authors can use to control these fonts.


The CSS spec also calls for higher-level linkage to (enhanced forms of) 
the font-{weight,stretch,style} properties. Edge implements this; Blink 
currently accepts [at least some of] the extended CSS values (e.g. 
non-integer font-weight values) but doesn't have them hooked up to 
variation font rendering; we don't yet implement this.


Regarding platform support: Edge, Safari and Firefox only support 
variation fonts on up-to-date versions of Win10 and macOS, while Chrome 
(AIUI) also supports them on older versions (by shipping an embedded 
copy of FreeType to use in place of the system font rasterizer when it 
doesn't have variation support).


On Linux, official Mozilla builds have variation support; distro builds 
that use --with-system-freetype will also work provided the system 
freetype is fairly recent, but old distros may still have a freetype 
that lacks variation support.


I haven't tested recent Chrome on Android but I presume they have the 
same support there as on desktop (as does Firefox).


So to sum up

> That is, are there substantive cases where
> some systems will have variation font support on other browsers but
> not Firefox,

On older releases of macOS and Windows, Chrome will have it but Firefox 
won't (neither will Safari/IE/Edge, however).


> or substantive features that other implementations will
> be shipping but we won't?

Support for the enhanced font-{weight,stretch,style} properties is 
currently only shipping in Edge, AFAICT; Blink has parsing but not full 
rendering support.

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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 20/03/2018 10:40, Emilio Cobos Álvarez wrote:

On 03/20/2018 11:22 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote:> There are a handful of
tests now in

web-platform/tests/css/css-fonts/variations, and there a bunch more
currently in preparation (e.g. see
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436588).


There's also https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/9373. Do you
know how interoperable are we on those tests? They seem to have caught
at least a few Blink and Edge compat issues.


Yeah, that's the PR that bug 1436588 relates to. :)

Many of the tests there are concerned with the CSS extensions to 
font-{weight,stretch,style}, which we haven't yet implemented (that's 
bug 1436048, bug 1436061).


(Note that Blink also hasn't fully implemented this, at least judging by 
testing of Chrome stable: they have done the CSS parsing extensions, but 
not hooked it up to the rendering side. Maybe that's in Canary by now? 
Anyhow, just a data point that supports doing a gradual roll-out of the 
feature, starting with font-variation-settings, which is the most basic 
piece of support.)


I'm hopeful that we can get these extensions ready within the next cycle 
or two, but in any case I don't think that should block exposing the 
basic feature.


JK
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Emilio Cobos Álvarez]

On 03/20/2018 11:22 AM, Jonathan Kew wrote:> There are a handful of
tests now in
> web-platform/tests/css/css-fonts/variations, and there a bunch more
> currently in preparation (e.g. see
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436588).

There's also https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/9373. Do you
know how interoperable are we on those tests? They seem to have caught
at least a few Blink and Edge compat issues.

 -- Emilio
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

On 20/03/2018 09:54, James Graham wrote:

On 19/03/2018 22:32, Jonathan Kew wrote:
As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for 
OpenType Font Variations on by default.


It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled 
and gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.


Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
   Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
   Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
   MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)

Bug to turn on by default: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163


This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" 
thread: 
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion 



Are there now (cross-browser) tests for this feature?


There are a handful of tests now in 
web-platform/tests/css/css-fonts/variations, and there a bunch more 
currently in preparation (e.g. see 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1436588).


JK
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[James Graham]

On 19/03/2018 22:32, Jonathan Kew wrote:
As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for 
OpenType Font Variations on by default.


It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and 
gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.


Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
   Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
   Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
   MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)

Bug to turn on by default: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163


This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" 
thread: 
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion 


Are there now (cross-browser) tests for this feature?
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Re: Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[L. David Baron]

On Monday 2018-03-19 22:32 +, Jonathan Kew wrote:
> As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for
> OpenType Font Variations on by default.
> 
> It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and
> gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.
> 
> Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
>   Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
>   Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
>   MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)
> 
> Bug to turn on by default:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163
> 
> This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" thread:
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion

This sounds great; it's a highly requested feature that's being
shipped with a decent amount of synchronization [1] across multiple
browser engines.

Is there something with a little more detail about how our (a)
feature set and (b) platform support compares with what other
engines are shipping?  That is, are there substantive cases where
some systems will have variation font support on other browsers but
not Firefox, or substantive features that other implementations will
be shipping but we won't?

-David

[1] At least, it's pretty good synchronization compared to the
recent track record in the CSS, fonts, and layout world, though
other parts of the platform have somewhat better records here.

-- 
𝄞   L. David Baron http://dbaron.org/   𝄂
𝄢   Mozilla  https://www.mozilla.org/   𝄂
 Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
 What I was walling in or walling out,
 And to whom I was like to give offense.
   - Robert Frost, Mending Wall (1914)


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Intent to ship: OpenType Variation Font support

[Jonathan Kew]

As of this week, for the mozilla-61 cycle, I plan to turn support for 
OpenType Font Variations on by default.


It has been developed behind the layout.css.font-variations.enabled and 
gfx.downloadable_fonts.keep_variation_tables preferences.


Other UAs shipping this or intending to ship it include:
  Safari (on macOS 10.13 or later)
  Chrome (and presumably other Blink-based UAs)
  MSEdge (on Windows 10 Fall Creators Update or later)

Bug to turn on by default: 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1447163


This feature was previously discussed in this "intent to implement" 
thread: 
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/mozilla.dev.platform/_FacI6Aw2BQ/discussion

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