Re: Mozilla's Expectations for OCSP Incident Reporting

2020-05-15 Thread Tom Delmas via dev-security-policy
Browsers by default just ignore any OCSP error. So while the browser 
might have seen an error getting the OCSP reply, the user is not aware 
of it.


And why Browsers do ignore OCSP errors? Because some CA don't take OCSP 
errors seriously.


So yes, it has an impact: it comfort Browsers in that situation, which 
is less than ideal, because it impacts the security of *all* users.



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RE: Sectigo: Failure to revoke certificate with compromised key

2020-05-15 Thread Robin Alden via dev-security-policy
Thank you very much for your continued disclosure.

We (Sectigo) are working on a CPS revision which will clarify the forms of 
proof of compromise that we accept.

Our customer service staff have to respond to compromise notifications quickly 
and accurately and we are best able to achieve that by limiting the forms of 
proof we accept to a set on which our staff have trained.

In the absence of an explicit limitation in our CPS as to the forms of proof we 
can accept our staff tried their best to respond and escalated it internally 
for action.  The certificate https://crt.sh/?id=2081585376 has been revoked.

I will include all of these details in the incident report which is in 
preparation.

Regards
Robin Alden
Sectigo Limited

> -Original Message-
> From: dev-security-policy 
> On Behalf Of sandybar497--- via dev-security-policy
> Sent: 07 May 2020 03:27
> To: mozilla-dev-security-pol...@lists.mozilla.org
> Subject: Re: Sectigo: Failure to revoke certificate with compromised key
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click
> links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the
> content is safe.
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 5:50:09 AM UTC+10, Ryan Sleevi wrote:
> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:35 PM sandybar497--- via dev-security-policy
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > I submitted a compromised key report to Sectigo
> [ssl_ab...@sectigo.com] on 1 May 2020 at 2:03pm UTC but Sectigo failed to
> revoke the certificate per cab-forum guidelines [4.9.1.1. Reasons for
> Revoking a Subscriber Certificate].
> > >
> > > Upon submitting my report [case ref: _00D1N2Ljih._5003l11VztU], I
> received an automated response at 1 May 2020 at 2:03pm UTC and the first
> human response came 4 hours later on 1 May 2020 at 6:24pm UTC with what I
> believe was an incorrect assessment and failure to carefully review the
> evidence provided. The impacted certificate as of writing this post is still 
> not
> revoked.
> > >
> > > The certificate in question: https://crt.sh/?id=2081585376
> > >
> > > A CSR signed by the original private key was provided with the following
> subject details as evidence of possession:
> > > CN = The key that signed this CSR has been publicly disclosed.
> > > O = Compromised Key
> > >
> > > The response I received from Sectigo failed to demonstrate competency
> to deal with report and instead made references to the commonName
> attribute as being a problem, however without providing any form of
> explanation as to what is wrong with it? Additionally, Sectigo referred to
> pwnedkeys as some sort of authority that they say it’s not compromised.
> However, I suspect what Sectigo staff really meant is they were unable to
> find the spki sha256 fingerprint against pwnedkeys database but I don’t see
> how that means anything or why they are checking pwnedkeys when the
> evidence was attached along with the report. The necessary evidence was
> provided to Sectigo and they have thus far failed to deal with the evidence or
> clearly articulate reasons for concluding this case to not be a compromise.
> > >
> > > I have sent further emails to Sectigo over 24 hours ago requesting their
> decision to be carefully reviewed and have still not received a reply. I 
> suspect
> my case was closed and response went into a blackhole.
> > >
> > > I would like to request Sectigo to again review this matter, revoke the
> certificate and provide an incident report.
> >
> > Thanks for sharing this. Could I ask you to post the CSR and/or
> > evidence you shared somewhere?
> >
> > Mostly to help confirm that indeed, Sectigo did make the wrong call,
> > and that this is an incident :) I was in the process of writing up the
> > Bugzilla bug and realized it probably makes sense to do a little due
> > diligence myself. Sectigo is expected to be watching this mailing list
> > and can also respond (and open the Bugzilla incident). I just didn't
> > recognize your e-mail / past posts, and so wanted to at least confirm
> > before making noise :)
> 
> In the latest reply from Sectigo I am advised "The CSR provided looks dummy
> and it is not used in the above issued certificate.". Although Sectigo
> continues to disagree with the evidence provided they did not provide me
> with specific directions as to what proof they would consider but according to
> their reply it would seem a copy of the original CSR would suffice. This is a
> deeply concerning response from Sectigo.
> 
> Here is a copy of the CSR as provided to Sectigo
> 
> -BEGIN CERTIFICATE REQUEST-
> MIICozCCAYsCAQAwXjEYMBYGA1UECgwPQ29tcHJvbWlzZWQgS2V5MUIwQA
> YDVQQD
> DDlUaGUga2V5IHRoYXQgc2lnbmVkIHRoaXMgQ1NSIGhhcyBiZWVuIHB1Ymxp
> Y2x5
> IGRpc2Nsb3NlZC4wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQD
> L7fFo
> EIq/60Ai9XO9pYiUQc7vFnpNKjlSeRyjljddtaZhVH3GAewEQUbihrLhNvFMX4rI
> kuGIpNPoBLb9bjrzVWm0pLkCjpF2oJVlHhlFJDDT6iELf7BlSz7EJEJUjdRGAYGv
> LsrLYURi2zqMjgJkbuRC3LmkwGl6/tnMlibQotpSnEcyosLA8ySk0k6raUxnbEyD
> 

Re: Mozilla's Expectations for OCSP Incident Reporting

2020-05-15 Thread Hanno Böck via dev-security-policy
On Fri, 15 May 2020 10:13:01 -0400
Lee via dev-security-policy 
wrote:

> How is this situation different from the time when the google ocsp
> service was down?

Maybe some clarification here:
The Google OCSP was the OCSP for end entity certificates.
The Identrust OCSP was the OCSP server for intermediate certs.

Checking OCSP for intermediates is less common than checking OCSP for
end entity certificates.

So there is a difference. However I still believe OCSP servers should
not be offline for longer periods of time in both cases :-)

-- 
Hanno Böck
https://hboeck.de/
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Re: Mozilla's Expectations for OCSP Incident Reporting

2020-05-15 Thread Lee via dev-security-policy
On 5/15/20, Peter Gutmann via dev-security-policy
 wrote:
> Hanno Böck  writes:
>
>>The impact it had was a monitoring system that checked whether the
>>certificate of a host was okay, using gnutls-cli with ocsp enabled (which
>>also uncovered a somewhat unexpected inconsistency in how the gnutls cli
>> tool
>>behaves[1]).
>
> Sure, but if the only impact was on a specially-configured setup
> (gnutls-cli
> with OCSP explicitly enabled rather than a standard web browser) then it
> didn't have any real impact on actual users.

How is this situation different from the time when the google ocsp
service was down?
https://groups.google.com/forum/?_escaped_fragment_=topic/mozilla.dev.security.policy/MMO3HSYghwQ

Not a whole lot of people noticed that.. but there was a real impact
on some actual users.

Lee
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Re: Mozilla's Expectations for OCSP Incident Reporting

2020-05-15 Thread Kurt Roeckx via dev-security-policy

On 2020-05-15 08:47, Peter Gutmann wrote:

Hanno Böck  writes:


The impact it had was a monitoring system that checked whether the
certificate of a host was okay, using gnutls-cli with ocsp enabled (which
also uncovered a somewhat unexpected inconsistency in how the gnutls cli tool
behaves[1]).


Sure, but if the only impact was on a specially-configured setup (gnutls-cli
with OCSP explicitly enabled rather than a standard web browser) then it
didn't have any real impact on actual users.



Browsers by default just ignore any OCSP error. So while the browser 
might have seen an error getting the OCSP reply, the user is not aware 
of it.


So it's possible that a certificate was revoked, but because OCSP was 
down that the browser connected to the website without any error, while 
it should have given an error. So it's possible that there was a real 
impact on actual users.



Kurt
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Re: Mozilla's Expectations for OCSP Incident Reporting

2020-05-15 Thread Peter Gutmann via dev-security-policy
Hanno Böck  writes:

>The impact it had was a monitoring system that checked whether the
>certificate of a host was okay, using gnutls-cli with ocsp enabled (which
>also uncovered a somewhat unexpected inconsistency in how the gnutls cli tool
>behaves[1]).

Sure, but if the only impact was on a specially-configured setup (gnutls-cli
with OCSP explicitly enabled rather than a standard web browser) then it
didn't have any real impact on actual users.  It's a bit like the joke about
someone complaining about his neighbour sunbathing in the nude, which they're
forced to see every time they climb up a tall ladder and look over at their
property with binoculars (can't remember the exact form, but something like
that).

If the only thing that we have any evidence was affected was a monitoring
system specially set up to be affected then it seems pretty likely that the
actual impact of the outage on general users was zero.  Which makes it a
certificational weakness, not a practical one, and therefore much less of an
issue.

Peter.
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