Re: splitting messages
Jeetendra Singh wrote: Because of billing issues. We do this with the operator NetCom in Norway. The price is set as the originator in the first message, the remaining messages have originator=00. I made a private patch to Kannel that take care of this, and it really does works fine. However, it may be Netcom changes the originator on their side after sorting out the billing - just a thought. Interesting!!! Do you mean NetCom will charge for only a single message if all the messages originated from my gateway contains same originator? -Jeetendra The actual problem lurking under all this is that bearer-based charging doesn't work very well for concatenated SMS. There isn't a really acceptable solution. Consider the case where the first message in a Nokia PM (with the magic charge me flag set in the sender address) arrives, but the follow-on packets don't. There you have the worst of both worlds, as the customer will be charged for content they will likely never even see. One solution I have seen implemented is the following variant of the receipt SMS solution -- where a second charged text message is used to tell the billing system that all parts of the message have been sent. MS ESME -(MO)-; Request for service (MT)--; Part 1 of content -(DLR); Part 1 delivered OK? . . . (MT)--; Part n of content -(DLR); Part n delivered OK? (MT)--; Charged MT, sent if all parts OK. Add the appropriate error handling, and you have a very complex and slow download server that is guaranteed not to cheat the user. As a side note: if the receipt needn't be visible to the end user, then a simple mechanism could use the protocol_id value 64 (decimal) for the charged MT. This is the dreaded PING SM (a/k/a Replace Message Class 0) which is neither displayed nor stored on SIM on most handsets. Another note: the MO request is MANDATORY. Consider a prepaid customer that has fallen below whatever balance the operator considers minimal to use SMS. In that case, the customer will have SMS MO barred, and will not be able to initiate the transaction. David WHITE ONE GmbH
Re: splitting messages
Title: Re: splitting messages thanks to all who got involved in this. I have certainly learnt much more about the issue now. excellent! a quick summary: I needed to have the split use different from numbers for billing reasons. We wanted to bill binary (ringtone and logos) on MT, but because of the splitting issue we were in danger of charging for every message. As charges are stated to the user simply, for example 1 euro per ringtone, it would have been messy to fix this. I also work for the carrier and my comments our billing systems were treated in typical telco style.. we arnt very flexible.. anyway.. the idea was to send the first of the split from a chargeable number and the rest from a non charging number.. simple if it works. Also this would work well with our prepaid customers. As we cant do this now we are faced with 2 more options. 1. send a chargeable ping message to the user. if this gets delivered ok then send the binary from a free short code. 2. implement MO charging. option 2 is the favourite here as it seems to be the established way of doing it. thanks to all mike
RE: splitting messages
hmm.. interesting.. what is this custom billing? what is this billing port? where can i find out more info about this? and will this work with both contract and prepaid customers? thanks mike -Original Message- From: Konstantin Vayner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:17 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: splitting messages Not if you have an option to set custom billing - then you can choose billing port depending on split count DILWORTH MICHAEL wrote: hi yes this option has been mentioned.. but then this means all our binary messages will have to be the same size, or at least have the same number of splits. mike -Original Message- From: Arne K. Haaje [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: splitting messages torsdag 21. august 2003, 09:57, skrev DILWORTH MICHAEL: thanks to all who got involved in this. I have certainly learnt much more about the issue now. excellent! a quick summary: I needed to have the split use different from numbers for billing reasons. We wanted to bill binary (ringtone and logos) on MT, but because of the splitting issue we were in danger of charging for every message. As charges are stated to the user simply, for example 1 euro per ringtone, it would have been messy to fix this. I also work for the carrier and my comments our billing systems were treated in typical telco style.. we arnt very flexible.. anyway.. the idea was to send the first of the split from a chargeable number and the rest from a non charging number.. simple if it works. Also this would work well with our prepaid customers. As we cant do this now we are faced with 2 more options. 1. send a chargeable ping message to the user. if this gets delivered ok then send the binary from a free short code. 2. implement MO charging. option 2 is the favourite here as it seems to be the established way of doing it. Why can't you split the cost between the messages? If the price for a ringtone is 1 euro but it must be split into two messages, can't you bill those two messages 0,5 euro each?
Re: splitting messages
On Donnerstag, August 21, 2003, at 06:46 Uhr, Arne K. Haaje wrote: torsdag 21. august 2003, 06:41, skrev Jeetendra Singh: The reference number should not be confused with message id. A same reference number in UDH of multiple short messages identify them as part of same long message, so in such a case you will have same reference number in all segments of a long message whereas every such segment shall be assigned a unique message id. Also in this case, ETSI GSM Specs 3.40 clearly define that Each concatenated short message contains a reference number which together with the originating address and Service Centre address allows the receiving entity to discriminate between concatenated short messages sent from different originating SMEs and/or SCs. Also I couldnt understand what purpose it would solve to send op logo with different originators? Because of billing issues. We do this with the operator NetCom in Norway. The price is set as the originator in the first message, the remaining messages have originator=00. I made a private patch to Kannel that take care of this, and it really does works fine. However, it may be Netcom changes the originator on their side after sorting out the billing - just a thought. The better way to do this is to send one text message as you have been billed Euro to charge and send the logo separately. This way you can also send the logo over a cheaper path Andreas Fink Global Networks Switzerland AG -- Tel: +41-61-333 Fax: +41-61-334 Mobile: +41-79-2457333 Global Networks, Inc. Clarastrasse 3, 4058 Basel, Switzerland Web: http://www.global-networks.ch/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: splitting messages
I have a little issue here I hope someone can shed some light on. what i want to do is to split a binary message (operator logo) and send it to a mobile. simple..yes, but i want to sent it using 2 different froms. it doesnt seem to work. it works ok if i use the same from. Please find here the sample (nokia operator logo with udh ) and my debugs. sorry its quite long seeing your SMPP PDUs at least the SMSC does not complain about it, right?! So it's the phone that actually does not accept an concatenated SMS from different source addresses. It is subject that the phone may use the source address as identifying qualifier when re-assembling the message on the device. I never tried to send concatenated messages with different source addresses, but I would suppose that it is the phone that breaks the acceptance here. Stipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Wapme Systems AG Vogelsanger Weg 80 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de --- wapme.net - wherever you are
Re: splitting messages
It may be (as Stipe said) that the phone uses the source address ( or ) as well as the concatenation Id (in this case 00), for re constructing messages. - Original Message - From: DILWORTH MICHAEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: splitting messages hi all I have a little issue here I hope someone can shed some light on. what i want to do is to split a binary message (operator logo) and send it to a mobile. simple..yes, but i want to sent it using 2 different froms. it doesnt seem to work. it works ok if i use the same from. Please find here the sample (nokia operator logo with udh ) and my debugs. sorry its quite long any help?? can this not be done? thanks mike if you sendsms the following 2 sms (i only supplly the udh, text and from, you have to supply the rest) to a nokia it works ok. note the sender is from=udh=%0B%05%04%15%82%00%00%00%03%00%02%01text=%02%F2%10%00%48%0e% 01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%01%e0%00%0 0%00 from=udh=%0B%05%04%15%82%00%00%00%03%00%02%02text=%00%00%00%00%02%10 %00%00%00%00%25%29%41%c4%08%83%9d%2f%72%29%29%42%48%c4%84%a5%48%4a%31%29%42% 49%24%84%a5%8e%4a%29%29%42%49%24%84%a5%48%4a%25%29%43%c9%d4%87%bd%28%72%24%c 6%7a%44%08%f4%a5%27%4a%00%00%00%02%00%00%00%00%00%3f%ff%ff%f9%ff%ff%ff%ff%fe %00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00 however if you change the the from on the second it doesnt work.. here is my kannel debug from sending part 1 from and part 2 from 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: type_name: submit_sm 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: command_id: 4 = 0x0004 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: command_status: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: sequence_number: 327 = 0x0147 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: service_type: NULL 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: source_addr_ton: 2 = 0x0002 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: source_addr_npi: 1 = 0x0001 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: source_addr: 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: dest_addr_ton: 2 = 0x0002 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: dest_addr_npi: 1 = 0x0001 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: destination_addr: 6937850247 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: esm_class: 67 = 0x0043 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: protocol_id: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: priority_flag: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: schedule_delivery_time: NULL 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: validity_period: NULL 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: registered_delivery: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: replace_if_present_flag: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data_coding: 4 = 0x0004 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: sm_default_msg_id: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: sm_length: 45 = 0x002d 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: short_message: 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG:Octet string at 0x404010f8: 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: len: 45 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: size: 46 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: immutable: 0 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 0b 05 04 15 82 00 00 00 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 03 00 02 01 02 f2 10 00 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 48 0e 01 00 00 00 00 00 H... 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: data: 01 e0 00 00 00. 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG:Octet string dump ends. 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: SMPP PDU dump ends. 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: SMPP[quad]: Got PDU: 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: SMPP PDU 0x40403070 dump: 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: type_name: submit_sm_resp 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: command_id: 2147483652 = 0x8004 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: command_status: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: sequence_number: 327 = 0x0147 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: message_id: 2c334f7 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [27] DEBUG: SMPP PDU dump ends. 2003-08-20 16:02:04 [1] DEBUG: Dumping 0 messages and 0 acks to store 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [21] DEBUG: boxc_receiver: sms received 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [22] DEBUG: send_msg: sending msg to boxc: (null) 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: SMPP[quad]: Sending PDU: 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: SMPP PDU 0x40403070 dump: 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: type_name: submit_sm 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: command_id: 4 = 0x0004 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: command_status: 0 = 0x 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: sequence_number: 330 = 0x014a 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: service_type: NULL 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: source_addr_ton: 2 = 0x0002 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: source_addr_npi: 1 = 0x0001 2003-08-20 16:02:11 [27] DEBUG: source_addr:
Re: splitting messages
of course smsc won't complain about it... every message for smsc is separate, it does not try to reassemble messages , it just sends the parts which are actually totally separate short messages; reassembling of messages is made on phone itself, and i am 99% sure that what you are trying to do can't be done; phone just assumes it got first part of one thing and second part of another thing; while the originators differ it would mean that two different originators sent their messages, though none of them delivered both parts; that is because there is actually no message id inside the udh... So, theoretically, [i did not try this actually] one would be able to send two operator logos to one phone and (with some unpredictable delays that happen during delivery) get both logos broken (mixed) on the phone... DILWORTH MICHAEL wrote: hi the phones tested on are 7650 and 3650 and 7110 none work. yes the SMSCs and kannel all say it went ok.. but the phone doesnt get it. :( mike -Original Message- From: Stipe Tolj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:16 PM To: DILWORTH MICHAEL Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: splitting messages I have a little issue here I hope someone can shed some light on. what i want to do is to split a binary message (operator logo) and send it to a mobile. simple..yes, but i want to sent it using 2 different froms. it doesnt seem to work. it works ok if i use the same from. Please find here the sample (nokia operator logo with udh ) and my debugs. sorry its quite long seeing your SMPP PDUs at least the SMSC does not complain about it, right?! So it's the phone that actually does not accept an concatenated SMS from different source addresses. It is subject that the phone may use the source address as identifying qualifier when re-assembling the message on the device. I never tried to send concatenated messages with different source addresses, but I would suppose that it is the phone that breaks the acceptance here. Stipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Wapme Systems AG Vogelsanger Weg 80 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de --- wapme.net - wherever you are
RE: splitting messages
well there is a sort of message id inside the udh ..its the concatenated short message reference number ,.. there is no need to use the short number mike -Original Message- From: Konstantin Vayner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: splitting messages of course smsc won't complain about it... every message for smsc is separate, it does not try to reassemble messages , it just sends the parts which are actually totally separate short messages; reassembling of messages is made on phone itself, and i am 99% sure that what you are trying to do can't be done; phone just assumes it got first part of one thing and second part of another thing; while the originators differ it would mean that two different originators sent their messages, though none of them delivered both parts; that is because there is actually no message id inside the udh... So, theoretically, [i did not try this actually] one would be able to send two operator logos to one phone and (with some unpredictable delays that happen during delivery) get both logos broken (mixed) on the phone... DILWORTH MICHAEL wrote: hi the phones tested on are 7650 and 3650 and 7110 none work. yes the SMSCs and kannel all say it went ok.. but the phone doesnt get it. :( mike -Original Message- From: Stipe Tolj [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:16 PM To: DILWORTH MICHAEL Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: splitting messages I have a little issue here I hope someone can shed some light on. what i want to do is to split a binary message (operator logo) and send it to a mobile. simple..yes, but i want to sent it using 2 different froms. it doesnt seem to work. it works ok if i use the same from. Please find here the sample (nokia operator logo with udh ) and my debugs. sorry its quite long seeing your SMPP PDUs at least the SMSC does not complain about it, right?! So it's the phone that actually does not accept an concatenated SMS from different source addresses. It is subject that the phone may use the source address as identifying qualifier when re-assembling the message on the device. I never tried to send concatenated messages with different source addresses, but I would suppose that it is the phone that breaks the acceptance here. Stipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Wapme Systems AG Vogelsanger Weg 80 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de --- wapme.net - wherever you are
Re: splitting messages
well there is a sort of message id inside the udh ..its the concatenated short message reference number ,.. there is no need to use the short number that's your interpretation. Nokia's may differ ;) Stipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Wapme Systems AG Vogelsanger Weg 80 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de --- wapme.net - wherever you are
RE: splitting messages
yes, unfortunate isnt it.. never mind ..when my cunning plan for world domination really kicks in i will make all these large corporations who blatantly disregard standards and display signs of idiotness pay dearly. Of course this depends on my medication holding out too ;-) mike well there is a sort of message id inside the udh ..its the concatenated short message reference number ,.. there is no need to use the short number that's your interpretation. Nokia's may differ ;) Stipe [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Wapme Systems AG Vogelsanger Weg 80 40470 Düsseldorf Tel: +49-211-74845-0 Fax: +49-211-74845-299 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://www.wapme-systems.de --- wapme.net - wherever you are
