date:20100802

On Mon, 02.08.10 17:01, Mike Prispan (fr.p...@gmail.com) wrote:

 Hi all,
 
 maybe I'm wrong (I guess I am), but is PulseAudio really dead? What lead me
 to this conclusion? Well look at this:
 * Fedora has 201 NEW/ASSIGNED bugs right now [1]
 * there was not fixed a single bug last six months (since 2010-02-23) [2][3]
 * there are not only not pulseaudio, but alsa is broken bugs, for example
 abrt reported crashes
 
 No development, no bug fixing, hard to say if there are any comments from
 bug assignee(s) at all. I've checked only a few bug and did not find any,
 only from bug reporters pinging or asking if more info is required, but I
 did not check it using bugzilla query (don't know if it's possible at all).
 
 So, again, is PulseAudio dead? Seems to me

No, it's not. I am just pushing systemd through right now, and did other
stuff.

Also, check upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
last commit there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something about
whether development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
devoted my life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
that. Sorry that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats on
bugzilla look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work done
anymore.

Most of the abrt stuff can probably be merged as duplicates. I'd welcome
if somebody wants to go through this and do this.

BTW, would be cool to direct flamewar-inducing mails like this to me
directly, first. Unless of course you think flamewars are a good thing,
not a bad thing.

Lennart

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Re: The move to git!

2010-08-02 Thread Harald Hoyer

On 07/30/2010 08:13 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 07/30/2010 08:52 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:

 fedpkg build
   fedpkg build
 Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 959, inmodule
  args.command(args)
File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 297, in build
  mymodule.init_koji(args.user, kojiconfig)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyfedpkg/__init__.py, line
 1102, in init_koji
  defaults['serverca'])
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1628,
 in ssl_login
  sinfo = self.callMethod('sslLogin', proxyuser)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1673,
 in callMethod
  return self._callMethod(name, args, opts)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1698,
 in _callMethod
  return proxy.__getattr__(name)(*args)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1224, in __call__
  return self.__send(self.__name, args)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1570, in __request
  verbose=self.__verbose
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1264, in request
  return self.single_request(host, handler, request_body, verbose)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1294, in single_request
  response = h.getresponse(buffering=True)
 AttributeError: PlgHTTPS instance has no attribute 'getresponse'
 [Exit 1]

 Seems to be broken in Rawhide.

   rpm -q fedora-packager
 fedora-packager-0.5.1.0-1.fc14.noarch

 Yeah, this is unfortunate, but something is broken in the xmlrpc stuff
 in or around koji.


Any workaround, fix for that?
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Re: RCS keywords rewritten in dist-git conversion?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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On 8/2/10 7:59 AM, Adam Goode wrote:
 Does this warrant re-converting the package? Or I can fix up the patches
 myself.

I suspect parsecvs got confused by the contents of the file having RCS
keywords.  I could try re-converting it using git cvsimport and see if
that does any better.

I'll work on that once we figure out this ACL issue.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:

 
 No, it's not. I am just pushing systemd through right now, and did
 other
 stuff.
 
 Also, check upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
 last commit there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something
 about
 whether development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
 devoted my life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
 that. Sorry that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats
 on
 bugzilla look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work
 done
 anymore.
 
 Most of the abrt stuff can probably be merged as duplicates. I'd
 welcome
 if somebody wants to go through this and do this.
 
 BTW, would be cool to direct flamewar-inducing mails like this to me
 directly, first. Unless of course you think flamewars are a good
 thing,
 not a bad thing.
 

The fact that the question was asked suggests to me that perhaps one should 
rethink what and how they are doing things. People have had this complaint 
since PA was forced on to the Fedora users.

And NO, sending emails to the list helps to point out problems to the community 
at large, and as you asked perhaps there is someone willing to help you with 
your lack of time and/or caring for BZ reports. If the email was sent privately 
that would never have been an option.

Just my $.02

--Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
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|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/2/10 9:52 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 People have had this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora users.


Language such as this is not being excellent to each other.  It's
unnecessarily antagonistic.  Please stop.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 8/2/10 9:52 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
  People have had this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora
 users.
 
 
 Language such as this is not being excellent to each other.  It's
 unnecessarily antagonistic.  Please stop.
 

Oh I'm sorry/sarcasm I was just echoing the tone from I am just pushing 
systemd through.

-- Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
|   b...@fedoraunity.org||  http://fedoraunity.org/ |
|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
|http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen|
|   http://www.facebook.com/rpjensen   |

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Wordpress testers needed!

2010-08-02 Thread Jon Ciesla

  In an effort to try to reduce and eliminate Wordpress's reliance on 
bundled PHP libraries, I've produced some test builds.  If someone 
familiar with administering Wordpress and Wordpress-mu could test to 
make sure the changes don't break anything and let me know, what would 
be wonderful and appreciated.

Thank you,
-J

https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/314
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544720
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544721
http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress/
http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress-mu/

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   in your fear, seek only love

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 8/2/10 9:52 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
  People have had this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora
 users.
 
 
 Language such as this is not being excellent to each other.  It's
 unnecessarily antagonistic.  Please stop.
 

Would Fix your existing broken crap before taking up something new. be less 
antagonistic?

-- Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
|   b...@fedoraunity.org||  http://fedoraunity.org/ |
|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
|http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen|
|   http://www.facebook.com/rpjensen   |

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Re: Wordpress testers needed!

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Jon Ciesla l...@jcomserv.net wrote:
  In an effort to try to reduce and eliminate Wordpress's reliance on
 bundled PHP libraries, I've produced some test builds.  If someone
 familiar with administering Wordpress and Wordpress-mu could test to
 make sure the changes don't break anything and let me know, what would
 be wonderful and appreciated.

What build in what tree do you want tested? Also I think that with
wordpress 3 the separate wordpress-mu release fork has been merged
into mainline. So wouldn't it be better to concentrate on wordpress 3?

Peter

 https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/314
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544720
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544721
 http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress/
 http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress-mu/

 --
 - in your fear, speak only peace
   in your fear, seek only love

 -d. bowie

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Máirín Duffy

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 17:07 +, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 - Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net wrote:
 
  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
  
  On 8/2/10 9:52 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
   People have had this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora
  users.
  
  
  Language such as this is not being excellent to each other.  It's
  unnecessarily antagonistic.  Please stop.
  
 
 Would Fix your existing broken crap before taking up something new. be less 
 antagonistic?

Bob, stop.

~m

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/2/10 10:07 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 Would Fix your existing broken crap before taking up something new. be less 
 antagonistic?

No, it wouldn't, and you know that.  Now you're just intentionally being
rude.  I ask again, please try to be civil on our public lists.  We're
trying to create a welcoming friendly environment here, where it's OK to
have disagreements without resorting to insults and antagonism.  Either
be a part of that, or move along.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread seth vidal

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 18:50 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:

 Also, check upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
 last commit there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something about
 whether development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
 devoted my life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
 that. Sorry that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats on
 bugzilla look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work done
 anymore.

Please don't make these odd dichotomies: Maintaining and tending to bug
reports is definitely real work. 


  Unless of course you think flamewars are a good thing,
 not a bad thing.

There's no need for this sort of comment at all. You could have just
left off at requesting that emails like the original poster's be sent
privately.


thanks,
-sv


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Re: The move to git!

2010-08-02 Thread Harald Hoyer


On 08/02/2010 07:02 PM, Harald Hoyer wrote:

On 07/30/2010 08:13 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 07/30/2010 08:52 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:


fedpkg build
   fedpkg build
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 959, inmodule
  args.command(args)
File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 297, in build
  mymodule.init_koji(args.user, kojiconfig)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/pyfedpkg/__init__.py, line
1102, in init_koji
  defaults['serverca'])
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1628,
in ssl_login
  sinfo = self.callMethod('sslLogin', proxyuser)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1673,
in callMethod
  return self._callMethod(name, args, opts)
File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/__init__.py, line 1698,
in _callMethod
  return proxy.__getattr__(name)(*args)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1224, in __call__
  return self.__send(self.__name, args)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1570, in __request
  verbose=self.__verbose
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1264, in request
  return self.single_request(host, handler, request_body, verbose)
File /usr/lib64/python2.7/xmlrpclib.py, line 1294, in single_request
  response = h.getresponse(buffering=True)
AttributeError: PlgHTTPS instance has no attribute 'getresponse'
[Exit 1]

Seems to be broken in Rawhide.

   rpm -q fedora-packager
fedora-packager-0.5.1.0-1.fc14.noarch


Yeah, this is unfortunate, but something is broken in the xmlrpc stuff
in or around koji.



Any workaround, fix for that?


Here is one attached
diff -urN /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/ssl/SSLConnection.py 
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji-bak/ssl/SSLConnection.py
--- /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/ssl/SSLConnection.py  2010-07-09 
04:04:26.0 +0200
+++ /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji-bak/ssl/SSLConnection.py  
2010-08-02 19:39:00.0 +0200
@@ -63,7 +63,7 @@
 c, a = self.__dict__[conn].accept()
 return (SSLConnection(c), a)
 
-def makefile(self, mode, bufsize):
+def makefile(self,  mode='r', bufsize=-1):
 
 We need to use socket._fileobject Because SSL.Connection
 doesn't have a 'dup'. Not exactly sure WHY this is, but
diff -urN /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/ssl/XMLRPCServerProxy.py 
/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji-bak/ssl/XMLRPCServerProxy.py
--- /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji/ssl/XMLRPCServerProxy.py  
2010-07-09 04:04:26.0 +0200
+++ /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/koji-bak/ssl/XMLRPCServerProxy.py  
2010-08-02 19:35:04.0 +0200
@@ -41,7 +41,7 @@
 # Yay for Python 2.2
 pass
 _host, _port = urllib.splitport(host)
-self._https = SSLCommon.PlgHTTPS(_host, (_port and int(_port) or 443), 
ssl_context=self.ssl_ctx, timeout=self._timeout)
+self._https = SSLCommon.PlgHTTPSConnection(_host, (_port and 
int(_port) or 443), ssl_context=self.ssl_ctx, timeout=self._timeout)
 return self._https
 
 def close(self):
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Adam Williamson

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 16:52 +, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:

 The fact that the question was asked suggests to me that perhaps one
 should rethink what and how they are doing things. People have had
 this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora users.

Erm, what complaint? That it's dead? I've never heard that one before.
Mostly, people seem to complain when it gets changed, not when it
doesn't.

I dunno, seems like 'nothing to see here' to me. 'Is it dead?' 'No it
isn't', let's move on. Lennart, I don't think Mike's email was intended
to be 'flamewar inducing', it was just a straightforward question.
-- 
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Re: The move to git!

2010-08-02 Thread Jeff Spaleta

On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Matěj Cepl mc...@redhat.com wrote:
 Everybody was bitching about CVS for years,

I'm pretty sure I wasn't.  But I'll still pile on with a +1 for the
switch over to git

-jefgetting git to compile on qnx is no funspaleta
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Carl G.

Lennart Poettering wrote:

 On Mon, 02.08.10 17:01, Mike Prispan
(fr.p...@gmail.com) wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 maybe I'm wrong (I guess I
am), but is PulseAudio really dead? What lead
 me to this conclusion?
Well look at this:
 * Fedora has 201 NEW/ASSIGNED bugs right now [1]

* there was not fixed a single bug last six months (since 2010-02-23)

[2][3] * there are not only not pulseaudio, but alsa is broken bugs,

for example abrt reported crashes
 
 No development, no bug fixing,
hard to say if there are any comments from
 bug assignee(s) at all. I've
checked only a few bug and did not find any,
 only from bug reporters
pinging or asking if more info is required, but I
 did not check it
using bugzilla query (don't know if it's possible at
 all).
 
 So,
again, is PulseAudio dead? Seems to me
 
 No, it's not. I am just
pushing systemd through right now, and did other
 stuff.
 
 Also, check
upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
 last commit
there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something about
 whether
development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
 devoted my
life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
 that. Sorry
that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats on
 bugzilla
look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work done

anymore.
 
 Most of the abrt stuff can probably be merged as duplicates.
I'd welcome
 if somebody wants to go through this and do this.
 
 BTW,
would be cool to direct flamewar-inducing mails like this to me

directly, first. Unless of course you think flamewars are a good thing,

not a bad thing.
 
 Lennart

 
Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
you can get real work done. /s

Let me know if you need some help to
make the stats looks pretty.
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
 you can get real work done. /s
 
 Let me know if you need some help to
 make the stats looks pretty.

Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect example of 
why public emails work.

-- Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
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|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
|http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen|
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Re: Firefox 4 for Fedora 14?

2010-08-02 Thread Tom spot Callaway

On 08/01/2010 12:55 PM, Julian Sikorski wrote:
 W dniu 30.07.2010 17:28, Tom spot Callaway pisze:
 On 07/30/2010 11:10 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
  On 07/30/2010 03:16 AM, Mike McGrath wrote:
 So I just created:

 http://repos.fedorapeople.org/

 Anyone want to help me test the steps and process before we announce and
 deploy it?  Anyone already got Firefox 4 built for F13 for example?  Let
 me know or stop by #fedora-admin on irc.freenode.net

 Remi,

 Would be nice to have Firefox 4 in there. 

 I'm also working on a set of Firefox 4 packages (split between firefox4
 and xulrunner) that more closely match the Fedora firefox packages, but
 are able to be installed without conflicts.

 At the moment, I'm just targeting F-14.

 ~spot
 Would it be a problem for you to make packages for F-13 as well?

Eventually, yes. Its at the bottom of my list though.

~spot

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Frank Murphy

On 02/08/10 19:20, Carl G. wrote:

 Let me know if you need some help to
 make the stats looks pretty.

:( I just made popcorn.

All ppl can get {insert emotion here}

and never, ever get close to a pregnant Stag. :D

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UTF_8 Encoded
Friend of Fedora
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Re: RCS keywords rewritten in dist-git conversion?

2010-08-02 Thread Adam Goode

On 08/02/2010 01:19 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
 On 8/2/10 7:59 AM, Adam Goode wrote:
 Does this warrant re-converting the package? Or I can fix up the patches
 myself.
 
 I suspect parsecvs got confused by the contents of the file having RCS
 keywords.  I could try re-converting it using git cvsimport and see if
 that does any better.
 
 I'll work on that once we figure out this ACL issue.
 

Didn't want this to get lost, thanks for fixing this on IRC, but I don't
have an f14 branch now.


Thanks,

Adam



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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 8/2/10 10:07 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
  Would Fix your existing broken crap before taking up something
 new. be less antagonistic?
 
 No, it wouldn't, and you know that.  Now you're just intentionally
 being
 rude.  I ask again, please try to be civil on our public lists. 
 We're
 trying to create a welcoming friendly environment here, where it's OK
 to
 have disagreements without resorting to insults and antagonism. 
 Either
 be a part of that, or move along.
 

Yes, never criticise the mothership or it's employees. I forgot that rule, I am 
so sorry. I will drop it now...

Yes, I needed to toss in this last barb. I have a right to express my opinions 
for now, even if they are unpopular with a few.

-- Bob


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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Jeff Spaleta

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
 Erm, what complaint? That it's dead? I've never heard that one before.
 Mostly, people seem to complain when it gets changed, not when it
 doesn't.


The gods of irony are pleased indeed.

However, this maybe a case where it would be good to try to better
define the roles of Fedora packager versus upstream developer.  If
there are patches that could be cherry-picked out of upstream git that
close some issues, that would be a worthwhile thing for a package
comaintainer to do without getting in the way of upstream project
development focus.  We like that fact that upstream developers are
also package maintainers, but we need to recognize the fact that there
really is a difference in focus and that there could be additional
work needed to be both.  It would probably be useful in this case for
someone to approach Lennert about collaborating as a package
comaintainer and take the responsibility of choosing which git patches
to pick and spin up testing updates accordingly.

-jefThere is a difference between a dead upstream project and a dead
package. I myself  cultivate Fedora packages for projects with
essentially dead upstreams, and the users of those
packages..cough..revelation..cough..continue to stick heads in the
ground blithely unaware that they continue to rely on a dead
codebase..at their own perilspaleta
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Upcoming Fedora 14 Tasks

2010-08-02 Thread John Poelstra

Start   End Name
Wed 26-May  Tue 03-Aug  Packaging and Development (precedes Alpha)
Tue 03-Aug  Tue 03-Aug  Alpha Change Deadline
Tue 03-Aug  Tue 03-Aug  Software String Freeze
Thu 05-Aug  Thu 05-Aug  Compose Alpha Candidate
Fri 06-Aug  Fri 06-Aug  Alpha Blocker Meeting (f14alpha) #4
Wed 11-Aug  Wed 11-Aug  Fedora 14 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting (17:00 EST)
Thu 12-Aug  Thu 12-Aug  Start Stage  Sync Alpha to Mirrors
Thu 12-Aug  Thu 12-Aug  Fedora 14 Alpha Release Readiness Meeting
Thu 12-Aug  Tue 17-Aug  Stage  Sync Alpha to Mirrors
Fri 13-Aug  Fri 13-Aug  Alpha Export Control Reporting
Tue 17-Aug  Tue 17-Aug  Alpha Public Availability

Have you found something that is working really well in your schedule?
Or maybe you've found something you believe would work better in the 
future?

Update the schedule retrospective page now to capture all of the 
important details as they happen: 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_Schedule_Retrospective
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:20:40 -0400
Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
 you can get real work done. /s
 
 Let me know if you need some help to
 make the stats looks pretty.

Thanks Carl. 

Perhaps we could organize a bug zapping day for the pulseaudio bugs? 

Try and find duplicates and mark them, as well as triage. 

This might be better to organize on the test list. 

That way we could hopefully get things down to a more manageable list
for Lennert to try and fix up. 

BTW, but I also find the tone earlier in the thread unproductive and
reflecting poorly on our community. I think in the open source world,
the carrot (how can we help, how can we improve things) is VASTLY
better than the stick (you suck, this was forced on us, I hate this
idea, etc). 

kevin


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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Mike McGrath

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:


 - Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
  Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
  you can get real work done. /s
 
  Let me know if you need some help to
  make the stats looks pretty.

 Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect example 
 of why public emails work.


I think what Bob is meaning to point out is that it does seem like risky
behavior for the upstream of a core system in Fedora to stop developing it
and start developing a new core system.  It's not 100% clear that's what
is going on, but the thread that's been started does provide evidence that
might be happening.

Do we know if PulseAudio upstream is still self sustaining and healthy and
that this lapse response is just a temporary thing?  It's a legitimate
concern considering how critical PA is.

-Mike
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Re: RCS keywords rewritten in dist-git conversion?

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On 08/02/2010 11:55 AM, Adam Goode wrote:
 Didn't want this to get lost, thanks for fixing this on IRC, but I don't
 have an f14 branch now.

Got that fixed for ya.

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Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

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On 08/02/2010 12:50 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
 On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 

 - Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
 you can get real work done. /s

 Let me know if you need some help to
 make the stats looks pretty.

 Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect example 
 of why public emails work.

 
 I think what Bob is meaning to point out is that it does seem like risky
 behavior for the upstream of a core system in Fedora to stop developing it
 and start developing a new core system.  It's not 100% clear that's what
 is going on, but the thread that's been started does provide evidence that
 might be happening.
 
 Do we know if PulseAudio upstream is still self sustaining and healthy and
 that this lapse response is just a temporary thing?  It's a legitimate
 concern considering how critical PA is.
 
   -Mike

There appear to be a number of development commits happening upstream,
so as a project it doesn't appear to be stopped.  Lennart is certainly
focusing on other things right now, but he isn't the entirety of pulseaudio.

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Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-03)

Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FESCo
meeting tomorrow at 19:30UTC (3:30pm EDT) in #fedora-meeting on
irc.freenode.net.

= Followups = 

#topic #351 Create a policy for updates - status report on implementation
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/351

#topic #382 Implementing Stable Release Vision
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/382

= New business =

#topic #440 Improve updates process to avoid windows of doom
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/440

= New business = 

#topic #443 Proven packager request: Adam Williamson
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/443

= Fedora Engineering Services tickets = 

https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-engineering-services/report/6

= Open Floor = 

For more complete details, please visit each individual ticket.  The
report of the agenda items can be found at
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/report/9

If you would like to add something to this agenda, you can reply to
this e-mail, file a new ticket at https://fedorahosted.org/fesco,
e-mail me directly, or bring it up at the end of the meeting, during
the open floor topic. 

kevin


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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Carl G.

Kevin Fenzi wrote:

 On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:20:40 -0400
 Carl G.
carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Well, i'm happy to be a bug
triager so
 you can get real work done. /s
 
 Let me know if you
need some help to
 make the stats looks pretty.
 
 Thanks Carl.
 

Perhaps we could organize a bug zapping day for the pulseaudio bugs?
 

Try and find duplicates and mark them, as well as triage.
 
 This might
be better to organize on the test list.
 
 That way we could hopefully
get things down to a more manageable list
 for Lennert to try and fix
up.
 
 BTW, but I also find the tone earlier in the thread unproductive
and
 reflecting poorly on our community. I think in the open source
world,
 the carrot (how can we help, how can we improve things) is
VASTLY
 better than the stick (you suck, this was forced on us, I hate
this
 idea, etc).
 
 kevin

Sure, i'm willing to _try_ to help if we
can get Lennart to participate and/or pulseaudio experts to assist
us.

Pulseaudio is currently marked as Only for PA experts here
:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Components_and_Triagers

I'll
have to get a reasonable level of knowledge concerning Pulseaudio
though.

Carl
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Jean-Francois Saucier

On Mon, 2010-08-02 at 18:50 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
 On Mon, 02.08.10 17:01, Mike Prispan (fr.p...@gmail.com) wrote:
 
  Hi all,
  
  maybe I'm wrong (I guess I am), but is PulseAudio really dead? What lead me
  to this conclusion? Well look at this:
  * Fedora has 201 NEW/ASSIGNED bugs right now [1]
  * there was not fixed a single bug last six months (since 2010-02-23) [2][3]
  * there are not only not pulseaudio, but alsa is broken bugs, for example
  abrt reported crashes
  
  No development, no bug fixing, hard to say if there are any comments from
  bug assignee(s) at all. I've checked only a few bug and did not find any,
  only from bug reporters pinging or asking if more info is required, but I
  did not check it using bugzilla query (don't know if it's possible at all).
  
  So, again, is PulseAudio dead? Seems to me
 
 No, it's not. I am just pushing systemd through right now, and did other
 stuff.
 
 Also, check upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
 last commit there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something about
 whether development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
 devoted my life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
 that. Sorry that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats on
 bugzilla look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work done
 anymore.
 
 Most of the abrt stuff can probably be merged as duplicates. I'd welcome
 if somebody wants to go through this and do this.
 
 BTW, would be cool to direct flamewar-inducing mails like this to me
 directly, first. Unless of course you think flamewars are a good thing,
 not a bad thing.
 
 Lennart
 
 -- 
 Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.

I am a little off this subject personally but would like to express my
thought on that.

Knowing that you won't put the time PA need and that you will focus on
another project for a relatively long period of time, would the ideal
workflow to follow is to try to find someone to replace you or at least
tell the world that you won't put anymore time fixing bugs? That way,
someone could have stepped up and help you. Currently, it took someone
to find out that no bug was fix for a long period of time to know that
you don't check them anymore.

I think that PA is an important part of a default Fedora system and
knowing that nobody currently monitor bugs and fix them seems a little
bit alarming to me.

This is not a criticism, I currently like what you are doing with
systemd. But, I think this should be addressed correctly for the future.


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GPG key : 0xA9E6E953


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Re: F-14 Branched report: 20100802 changes

2010-08-02 Thread Nathanael D. Noblet

On 08/02/2010 09:32 AM, Branched Report wrote:
 Compose started at Mon Aug  2 13:15:11 UTC 2010

 Broken deps for x86_64
 --
   barry-0.17-0.1.20100329git.fc14.x86_64 requires 
 libboost_serialization.so.1.41.0()(64bit)

Barry is my package, I've recently (as you can see from the release tag) 
pushed a new build thinking the issue was that boost had been rebuilt 
and mine needed a recompile... Doesn't seem to be the case.. is boost 
going to be recompiled? Am I missing something obvious here?
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Re: F-14 Branched report: 20100802 changes

2010-08-02 Thread Michael Schwendt

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:17:43 -0600, Nathanael wrote:

 On 08/02/2010 09:32 AM, Branched Report wrote:
  Compose started at Mon Aug  2 13:15:11 UTC 2010
 
  Broken deps for x86_64
  --
  barry-0.17-0.1.20100329git.fc14.x86_64 requires 
  libboost_serialization.so.1.41.0()(64bit)
 
 Barry is my package, I've recently (as you can see from the release tag) 
 pushed a new build thinking the issue was that boost had been rebuilt 
 and mine needed a recompile... Doesn't seem to be the case.. is boost 
 going to be recompiled? Am I missing something obvious here?

Your rebuild is in updates-testing. Does the F-14 Branched Report
cover updates-testing?   (During the F-13 dev cycle, it did not, and I created
a separate broken deps report for F-13 Branched + updates-testing.)
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Re: F-14 Branched report: 20100802 changes

2010-08-02 Thread Nathanael D. Noblet

On 08/02/2010 02:26 PM, Michael Schwendt wrote:
 On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:17:43 -0600, Nathanael wrote:

 On 08/02/2010 09:32 AM, Branched Report wrote:
 Compose started at Mon Aug  2 13:15:11 UTC 2010

 Broken deps for x86_64
 --
 barry-0.17-0.1.20100329git.fc14.x86_64 requires 
 libboost_serialization.so.1.41.0()(64bit)

 Barry is my package, I've recently (as you can see from the release tag)
 pushed a new build thinking the issue was that boost had been rebuilt
 and mine needed a recompile... Doesn't seem to be the case.. is boost
 going to be recompiled? Am I missing something obvious here?

 Your rebuild is in updates-testing. Does the F-14 Branched Report
 cover updates-testing?   (During the F-13 dev cycle, it did not, and I created
 a separate broken deps report for F-13 Branched + updates-testing.)

Ah... that could be it I guess.
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Re: F-14 Branched report: 20100802 changes

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On 8/2/10 1:26 PM, Michael Schwendt wrote:
 Your rebuild is in updates-testing. Does the F-14 Branched Report
 cover updates-testing?   (During the F-13 dev cycle, it did not, and I created
 a separate broken deps report for F-13 Branched + updates-testing.)

The report does not cover updates-testing.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-03)

2010-08-02 Thread Jochen Schmitt


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Am 02.08.2010 21:58, schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
 Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FESCo
 meeting tomorrow at 19:30UTC (3:30pm EDT) in #fedora-meeting on
 irc.freenode.net.

Unfortunately, I could not found the summaries of the last meeting, on
ths mailing list, so
I want to ask for it?

Jochen Schmitt
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Summary/Minutes from FESCo meeting (2010-07-27)

===
#fedora-meeting: FESCO (2010-07-27)
===

Meeting started by nirik at 19:30:01 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-07-27/fesco.2010-07-27-19.30.log.html
..

Meeting summary
---
* init process (nirik, 19:30:01)

* #351 Create a policy for updates - status report on implementation
(nirik, 19:33:38)

* #382 Implementing Stable Release Vision (nirik, 19:35:45)

* #438 F14Feature: Ruby_1.87 -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Ruby_1.8.7 (nirik, 19:41:13)
* AGREED: feature is approved. (nirik, 19:43:28)

* #440 Improve updates process to avoid windows of doom (nirik,
19:43:48)

* #442: Firefox and SELinux - bug 597858 (nirik, 20:14:34)

* Python 2.7 (nirik, 20:32:53)
* AGREED: merge python2.7 already (pjones, 20:51:40)
* please fix your packages where required (notting, 20:51:59)
* AGREED: merge of python 2.7 is approved (notting, 20:52:19)

* FES tickets (notting, 20:53:46)

* Open Floor (notting, 20:55:42)
* mass branching, and conversion to git will occur at 0800 UTC tonight
(notting, 21:05:23)
* scm access and building will use the new 'fedpkg' commands
(notting, 21:05:40)
* please respond to your proposed and accepted blocker bugs (notting,
21:08:22)
* IDEA: perhaps try and schedule FTBFS runs around landing of major
ABI breaks (notting, 21:15:33)

Meeting ended at 21:17:52 UTC.
--
19:30:01 nirik #startmeeting FESCO (2010-07-27)
19:30:01 zodbot Meeting started Tue Jul 27 19:30:01 2010 UTC. The chair is
nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:30:01 zodbot Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link
#topic.
19:30:01 nirik #meetingname fesco
19:30:01 zodbot The meeting name has been set to 'fesco'
19:30:01 nirik #chair mclasen notting nirik SMParrish kylem ajax pjones
cwickert mjg59
19:30:01 nirik #topic init process
19:30:01 zodbot Current chairs: SMParrish ajax cwickert kylem mclasen mjg59
nirik notting pjones
19:30:13 ajax oh no, not again
19:30:27 nirik yeah, it's like almost every week it happens. ;(
19:30:33 pjones ajax: quick, make a run for it before they notice we're here
19:30:58 * dmalcolm is lurking
19:31:07 * abadger1999 is lurking if you need to ping me.
19:31:18 mjg59 Afternoon
19:31:25 nirik cwickert is gonna be here, but said he would be a few minutes
late.
19:31:46 nirik also, I have to leave in about an hour to head to an
appointment, so someone will have to take over running things then. ;)
19:32:08 mjg59 Let's just get everything done in an hour
19:32:11 mjg59 That sounds easier
19:32:23 pjones yes, let's run with that.
19:32:29 nirik yeah, that would be nice.
19:32:47 * nirik doesn't see us having quorum currently...
19:33:03 nirik notting, SMParrish ? you guys around?
19:33:11 notting yes, i'm here. sorry.
19:33:29 nirik ok, thats enough to get started I guess...
19:33:38 nirik #topic #351 Create a policy for updates - status report on
implementation
19:33:39 nirik .fesco 351
19:33:42 zodbot nirik: #351 (Create a policy for updates) - FESCo - Trac -
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/351
19:33:46 nirik Our fav ticket in the entire world. ;)
19:34:02 nirik I think lmacken was working on adding the one week thing, but
not sure the status.
19:34:28 nirik autoqa is hoping to have something for f14alpha hopefully?
19:34:44 nirik those are the last 2 things on this I think...
19:35:19 nirik anyone have anything else here? I can try and find more
concrete info on those items for next time...
19:35:41 ajax not i.
19:35:42 * nirik moves on then.
19:35:45 nirik #topic #382 Implementing Stable Release Vision
19:35:45 nirik .fesco 382
19:35:46 zodbot nirik: #382 (Implementing Stable Release Vision) - FESCo -
Trac - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/382
19:35:57 nirik Anyone have anything to report from the tasks we parceled out?
19:36:29 nirik I added some more things to:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Updates_Lessons and asked for the test list to
add anything folks have seen.
19:36:43 notting nope, still behind
19:37:38 nirik I also asked the Board to clarify the and only fix bugs and
security issues. but so far, not one of the Board has replied. ;)
19:37:47 ajax in general i'm not going to have updates this week, since i've
been out of the country
19:37:48 pjones nirik: shocking.
19:38:56 nirik so, I fear we made not much progress this week... perhaps next
will be better? Or is there any way folks can think of in how to move this
along more?
19:40:22 nirik ok, I guess we try and do better and move on...
19:41:13 nirik #topic #438 F14Feature: Ruby_1.87 -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Ruby_1.8.7
19:41:13 nirik .fesco 438
19:41:14 zodbot nirik: #438 (F14Feature: Ruby_1.87 -
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Ruby_1.8.7) - FESCo - Trac -
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/438
19:41:46 nirik we had some questions on this

Re: Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-03)

2010-08-02 Thread Jochen Schmitt


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Am 02.08.2010 22:54, schrieb Kevin Fenzi:

 I'll get it sent right after this. Thanks for noticing... I am
 glad folks are reading them and find them helpfull.

Thank you for your response. I think not all people have the time to
following a
meeting which may stay over an hour on IRC and of course there is a
live after Fedora :-))

So this summaries are very helpful to get information about what was
happen on the
last FESCo meeting.

Best Regards:

Jochen Schmitt


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Re: Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-03)

2010-08-02 Thread Richard W.M. Jones

On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 01:58:56PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
 Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FESCo
 meeting tomorrow at 19:30UTC (3:30pm EDT) in #fedora-meeting on
 irc.freenode.net.

I'm sorry I cannot be at this meeting, but could fixing this bug be
discussed:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619276
koji build no longer work with python 2.7

(and any others that affect people trying to build packages on
Rawhide, but I believe that the above is the only bug left).

Rich.

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Asterisk 1.8 in Rawhide (F-15)

2010-08-02 Thread Jeffrey Ollie

I've just built Asterisk 1.8.0 Beta 2 for Rawhide (F-15).  The
packages are completely untested at this point so I make no guarantees
at this point about it's usability.  I'll be doing some testing on my
own but I'd appreciate any testing that anyone else can do.

Since we have already passed F-14's feature freeze date I am very
unlikely to update F-14 to Asterisk 1.8 so F-13 and F-14 will stick
with 1.6.2.X until they go EOL.

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Michael Schwendt

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:01:02 -0400, Carl wrote:

 Perhaps we could organize a bug zapping day for the pulseaudio bugs?

 Sure, i'm willing to _try_ to help if we
 can get Lennart to participate and/or pulseaudio experts to assist
 us.
 
 Pulseaudio is currently marked as Only for PA experts here
 :
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Components_and_Triagers
 
 I'll
 have to get a reasonable level of knowledge concerning Pulseaudio
 though.

There are lots of packages that have dozens of tickets open, e.g.

http://bugz.fedoraproject.org/gnome-media
47 bugs found

gnome-volume-control-applet refuses to work here in F-14 Branched. Can't
click the volume slider, as it closes immediately and increases volume
to 100%. Icon is missing/broken. And ABRT is working on slowly downloading
tons of debuginfos for a crash.
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 8/2/10 9:52 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 People have had this complaint since PA was forced on to the Fedora users.


 Language such as this is not being excellent to each other.  It's
 unnecessarily antagonistic.  Please stop.

Nor was Lennart's BTW message either to be fair.

Peter
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Re: Can anyone contact Balint Christian (rezso)?

2010-08-02 Thread Sven Lankes

On Sun, Aug 01, 2010 at 12:27:53PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

  openlayers

I have taken openlayers.

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Re: Fedora 14 has been branched!

2010-08-02 Thread John Poelstra

Jesse Keating said the following on 07/30/2010 10:00 AM Pacific Time:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 07/30/2010 06:00 AM, John Poelstra wrote:
 Jesse Keating said the following on 07/29/2010 09:03 PM Pacific Time:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Branch_Freeze_Policy

 I know it's been a rough couple of days here, python-2.7 and boost
 rebuilds creating build havoc, systemd creating some interesting
 confusion, and dist-git to top it all off.  But we'll work through it as
 best as we can, as we always do.  Onward into the future!


 We didn't have this *freeze* reflected in the Fedora 14 schedule.  Is
 this the same as the task Branch Fedora 14 from Rawhide?

 In normal circumstances, how long would you expect the freeze to last?

 John

 Well perhaps the page name is misleading, but this is the freeze of
 being branched and using bodhi for everything.  It's exactly what we did
 last release, the first release of no frozen rawhide.  We are frozen
 in that if you do a build in the f14 branch, the build won't
 automatically show up, you have to do a bodhi action.


Okay.  I was going off an earlier conversation that I'd understood to be 
we have no more 'freezes,' period, in Fedora.

John
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Mike McGrath mmcgr...@redhat.com wrote:
 On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:


 - Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
  Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
  you can get real work done. /s
 
  Let me know if you need some help to
  make the stats looks pretty.

 Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect example 
 of why public emails work.


 I think what Bob is meaning to point out is that it does seem like risky
 behavior for the upstream of a core system in Fedora to stop developing it
 and start developing a new core system.  It's not 100% clear that's what
 is going on, but the thread that's been started does provide evidence that
 might be happening.

 Do we know if PulseAudio upstream is still self sustaining and healthy and
 that this lapse response is just a temporary thing?  It's a legitimate
 concern considering how critical PA is.

While Lennart has moved onto bigger and better things, which isn't a
bad thing, it seems that the maintainership of PA in Fedora hasn't
moved on to other maintianers or at least if Lennart is interested in
maintaining it he hasn't aquired someone to assist in co-maintenance.
Nor does it seem the case with alot of other fedora desktop packages.
If you want to look at other main line desktop packages that don't
seem to have active maintainer ship look at the webkit thread from the
last day or so. And there are others that come to mind that don't seem
to be actively maintained.

Peter
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Thomas Janssen

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
 On Mon, 02.08.10 17:01, Mike Prispan (fr.p...@gmail.com) wrote:

 Hi all,

 maybe I'm wrong (I guess I am), but is PulseAudio really dead? What lead me
 to this conclusion? Well look at this:
 * Fedora has 201 NEW/ASSIGNED bugs right now [1]
 * there was not fixed a single bug last six months (since 2010-02-23) [2][3]
 * there are not only not pulseaudio, but alsa is broken bugs, for example
 abrt reported crashes

 No development, no bug fixing, hard to say if there are any comments from
 bug assignee(s) at all. I've checked only a few bug and did not find any,
 only from bug reporters pinging or asking if more info is required, but I
 did not check it using bugzilla query (don't know if it's possible at all).

 So, again, is PulseAudio dead? Seems to me

 No, it's not. I am just pushing systemd through right now, and did other
 stuff.

 Also, check upstream git to figure out whether a project is dead. The
 last commit there is from 2 weeks ago. Git can tell you something about
 whether development happens. Bugzilla just tells you whether I have
 devoted my life to processing bug reports. And well, I haven't done
 that. Sorry that I don't exclsuively spend my time on making my stats on
 bugzilla look pretty. If I did, then I would not get any real work done
 anymore.

 Most of the abrt stuff can probably be merged as duplicates. I'd welcome
 if somebody wants to go through this and do this.

Hello Lennart,

first let me thank you for everything you do for the FOSS community.

Sadly i have to point the other side out. You might don't like that,
but this page 
http://fedorasolved.org/Members/fenris02/pulseaudio-fixes-and-workarounds
is the #1 page needed on our IRC support channel #fedora (I need to
check if it's the all-time-high). I'm sure you don't like to read
that, but PA isn't that perfect yet, from a supporters POV (even PA
works very well out of the box here for a long time).
We're a bit afraid you leave us with a systemd like PA if you find
something else that enjoys you more.

You're a very good coder and as well very good in pushing trough.
Maybe you need (to learn?) to share the work that comes with all that
a bit better. Or start to educate some people to be able to help you.
And maybe listen a little bit to the people trying to help others in
the front line. Thank you.

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acl problem?

2010-08-02 Thread Neal Becker

Repository : :ext:nbec...@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/pkgs
Module : rpms/mercurial/devel
Working dir: ~/fedora/mercurial/devel/



In directory .:
Message: cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first!
Message:  Access denied: nbecker is not in ACL for rpms/mercurial/devel
Message: cvs commit: Pre-commit check failed


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Re: acl problem?

2010-08-02 Thread John5342

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 23:17, Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com wrote:
 Repository : :ext:nbec...@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/pkgs
 Module     : rpms/mercurial/devel
 Working dir: ~/fedora/mercurial/devel/



 In directory .:
 Message: cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first!
 Message:  Access denied: nbecker is not in ACL for rpms/mercurial/devel
 Message: cvs commit: Pre-commit check failed

See the countless recent emails about the migration to dist-git. cvs
is now read only and everything is now done through git. This is a
good starting point: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Using_Fedora_GIT

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Re: acl problem?

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:17:01 -0400
Neal Becker ndbeck...@gmail.com wrote:

 Repository : :ext:nbec...@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/pkgs
 Module : rpms/mercurial/devel
 Working dir: ~/fedora/mercurial/devel/
 
 
 
 In directory .:
 Message: cvs [commit aborted]: correct above errors first!
 Message:  Access denied: nbecker is not in ACL for
 rpms/mercurial/devel Message: cvs commit: Pre-commit check failed

CVS is read only now, we have switched to git. 

See: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Using_Fedora_GIT

and 'yum --enablerepo=updates-testing update fedora-packager' to make
sure you have the current version of fedpkg. 

kevin


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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, 02.08.10 23:09, pbrobin...@gmail.com (pbrobin...@gmail.com) wrote:

 
 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Mike McGrath mmcgr...@redhat.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 
 
  - Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
   Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
   you can get real work done. /s
  
   Let me know if you need some help to
   make the stats looks pretty.
 
  Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect 
  example of why public emails work.
 
 
  I think what Bob is meaning to point out is that it does seem like risky
  behavior for the upstream of a core system in Fedora to stop developing it
  and start developing a new core system.  It's not 100% clear that's what
  is going on, but the thread that's been started does provide evidence that
  might be happening.
 
  Do we know if PulseAudio upstream is still self sustaining and healthy and
  that this lapse response is just a temporary thing?  It's a legitimate
  concern considering how critical PA is.
 
 While Lennart has moved onto bigger and better things, which isn't a
 bad thing, it seems that the maintainership of PA in Fedora hasn't
 moved on to other maintianers or at least if Lennart is interested in
 maintaining it he hasn't aquired someone to assist in co-maintenance.
 Nor does it seem the case with alot of other fedora desktop packages.
 If you want to look at other main line desktop packages that don't
 seem to have active maintainer ship look at the webkit thread from the
 last day or so. And there are others that come to mind that don't seem
 to be actively maintained.

I haven't moved on. 

In contrast to PA systemd is a project whith an end. i.e. there's a
certain point not so far away, where it is complete, i.e. where it
will go into maintaince mode where additional features will be added
only every now and then. This is different for PA which is basically an
endless project where constantly a module for a new policy, a new
device type, a new effect, a new codec, or other piece of infrastructure
will have to be added and worked on.

It's basically the dichotomy of cat vs. a text editor. When cat is
implemented, then there's very little to add to it over the years. OTOH
text editors will gain features all the time.

I have been working continously on PA and related techs for the last
years. And now I have this smaller side project called systemd, whose
feature set is already complete. What's missing is cleaning it up for
the distros and fixing the bugs. When that is done I will return
full-time to work on PA.

So, I guess what I want to say is: I will return full-time to PA not so
far away. And I have a queue of patches in my checkout (including volume
ramping and plug-in effects and similar). Also note that I'll run the
track about audio at plumbersconf again, so there's really no reason to
believe that I moved on or PA was dead.

Lennart

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, 02.08.10 16:01, Carl G. (carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com) wrote:

 Sure, i'm willing to _try_ to help if we
 can get Lennart to participate and/or pulseaudio experts to assist
 us.
 
 Pulseaudio is currently marked as Only for PA experts here
 :
 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Components_and_Triagers
 
 I'll
 have to get a reasonable level of knowledge concerning Pulseaudio
 though.

Well, merging these bugs is not easy. You really need to know what you
are doing. abrt is already good enough to merge the most obvious cases
of duplicate bugs based on the backtrace. But merging everything that
went past abrtd requires the reader to really understand what the
backtrace means, and possibly even know the source code a bit. While
you don't really need to be a guru-level PA hacker for this, this is
nothing you can just do in a spare half an hour or so. 

If it was just half an hour for me, then I'd already have done it
myself... ;-)

Lennart

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Lennart Poettering
mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
 On Mon, 02.08.10 23:09, pbrobin...@gmail.com (pbrobin...@gmail.com) wrote:


 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:50 PM, Mike McGrath mmcgr...@redhat.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 
 
  - Carl G. carl.gaudrea...@gmail.com wrote:
   Well, i'm happy to be a bug triager so
   you can get real work done. /s
  
   Let me know if you need some help to
   make the stats looks pretty.
 
  Thank You Carl, this will help the community a lot and is a perfect 
  example of why public emails work.
 
 
  I think what Bob is meaning to point out is that it does seem like risky
  behavior for the upstream of a core system in Fedora to stop developing it
  and start developing a new core system.  It's not 100% clear that's what
  is going on, but the thread that's been started does provide evidence that
  might be happening.
 
  Do we know if PulseAudio upstream is still self sustaining and healthy and
  that this lapse response is just a temporary thing?  It's a legitimate
  concern considering how critical PA is.

 While Lennart has moved onto bigger and better things, which isn't a
 bad thing, it seems that the maintainership of PA in Fedora hasn't
 moved on to other maintianers or at least if Lennart is interested in
 maintaining it he hasn't aquired someone to assist in co-maintenance.
 Nor does it seem the case with alot of other fedora desktop packages.
 If you want to look at other main line desktop packages that don't
 seem to have active maintainer ship look at the webkit thread from the
 last day or so. And there are others that come to mind that don't seem
 to be actively maintained.

 I haven't moved on.

 In contrast to PA systemd is a project whith an end. i.e. there's a
 certain point not so far away, where it is complete, i.e. where it
 will go into maintaince mode where additional features will be added
 only every now and then. This is different for PA which is basically an
 endless project where constantly a module for a new policy, a new
 device type, a new effect, a new codec, or other piece of infrastructure
 will have to be added and worked on.

 It's basically the dichotomy of cat vs. a text editor. When cat is
 implemented, then there's very little to add to it over the years. OTOH
 text editors will gain features all the time.

 I have been working continously on PA and related techs for the last
 years. And now I have this smaller side project called systemd, whose
 feature set is already complete. What's missing is cleaning it up for
 the distros and fixing the bugs. When that is done I will return
 full-time to work on PA.

 So, I guess what I want to say is: I will return full-time to PA not so
 far away. And I have a queue of patches in my checkout (including volume
 ramping and plug-in effects and similar). Also note that I'll run the
 track about audio at plumbersconf again, so there's really no reason to
 believe that I moved on or PA was dead.

Which is great and I understand that but systemd will basically cover
the release time frame for F-13 and F-14 and in that timeframe the
support and issues for PA are going unfixed or even un triaged. Not
great for a core sub system. So maybe it would be a good idea to train
up a few people that can do the boring trage so you can get on with
the upstream PA and systemd stuff so that the average end user doesn't
need to wait for the bottle neck of a single person because presumably
with other distros using it Fedora isn't the only distro demanding
your time.

Peter
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Re: Plan for tomorrow's FESCo meeting (2010-08-03)

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 22:10:13 +0100
Richard W.M. Jones rjo...@redhat.com wrote:

 On Mon, Aug 02, 2010 at 01:58:56PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
  Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FESCo
  meeting tomorrow at 19:30UTC (3:30pm EDT) in #fedora-meeting on
  irc.freenode.net.
 
 I'm sorry I cannot be at this meeting, but could fixing this bug be
 discussed:
 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619276
 koji build no longer work with python 2.7
 
 (and any others that affect people trying to build packages on
 Rawhide, but I believe that the above is the only bug left).

Discussed in what sense? there's a patch... hopefully it will be
acceptable to the maintainer, if not, they will need to rework it. 

I'm not sure what there is for FESCo to do here, aside from telling
folks to pretty please get it fixed asap. :) 

kevin


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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, 02.08.10 16:15, Jean-Francois Saucier (jfsauc...@infoglobe.ca) wrote:

 I am a little off this subject personally but would like to express my
 thought on that.
 
 Knowing that you won't put the time PA need and that you will focus on
 another project for a relatively long period of time, would the ideal
 workflow to follow is to try to find someone to replace you or at least
 tell the world that you won't put anymore time fixing bugs? 

Well, my reading of the situation is different. Neither will I be away
for too long, nor is the amount of bugs actually that bad. If you look
closely a non-trivial number have needinfo set, waiting for the posters
to report back. Substantial amount are duplicate abrt backtraces. There
are some feature requests. A number of bugs cover stuff like HDMI
and auxiliary PA modules which are optional features, which are not
entirely supported on the low-levels or upstream, and hence I don't
think need to be fixed with high-priority. Finally a substantial chunk
is mixer initialization problems, which are kinda time-intensive to
process, because you need the help of the user to run alsamixer -c0
and figure out what's actually going on, you need to ask him to play
around with model=xxx as param to the HDA module. And usually that
involves quite a bit of forth and back. And furthermore almost always
these actually are issues that need to be fixed in ALSA, not
PA, though I never bothered to reassign them because one needs to verify
this first. (i.e.  either in the HDA driver by adding new quirks or by updating
the mixer init db). Also, these kind of simple driver bugs tend to fix
themselves alone, because alsa is updated all the time, and the other
distros work on this too. So a number of these could probably be closed
right-away because a newer ALSA already contains the quirk. 

So, well, I don't think things are really that bad.

Lennart

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Fedora 14 Alpha RC Compose is At Risk

2010-08-02 Thread John Poelstra

Tomorrow is the Alpha Deadline

Chances of composing the release candidate for the Fedora 14 Alpha on 
Thursday are not looking good, but a little time remains.  Release 
Engineering cannot spin a Fedora 14 Release Candidate until this Fedora 
14 Alpha Blocker is clear.

If you have any additional information about these bugs, PLEASE add it 
as a comment to the bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=611990hide_resolved=1


615443 :: NEW :: livecd-tools :: Bruno Wolff III :: booting live images 
from nightly fails (can't mount root filesystem) :: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615443
--looks like it could be a bug in squashfs
--a fix appears to be in hand for the dependent bug: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619020, but new packages 
need to be built


597858 :: NEW :: firefox :: Gecko Maintainer :: SELinux is preventing 
firefox from making its memory writable and executable. crashes rawhide 
firefox start :: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=597858
--This bug has been open for over two months and has been on the blocker 
list since 2010-07-22.
--Still NO feedback from the package maintainers.  Recently added 
caillon and martin to the CC in hopes someone will respond.


619238 :: NEW :: selinux-policy :: Daniel Walsh :: can't login to normal 
F14 install - avc: denied { entrypoint } for  comm=login 
path=/bin/bash :: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619238
--Need feedback from the package maintainer. Can you drop as a line Dan?


619889 :: NEW :: xorg-x11 :: X/OpenGL Maintenance List :: X.org pegged 
at 100% CPU usage after booting with systemd :: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619889
--lpoetter is working on it.


620274 :: MODIFIED :: anaconda :: Anaconda Maintenance Team :: 
pyconfig-32.h is missing, anaconda fails :: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=620274
--Need a new test compose to verify.


619947 :: MODIFIED :: gnote :: Rahul Sundaram :: gnote needs to be 
rebuilt against Boost 1.44 in F14 and devel :: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619947


617115 :: ON_QA :: livecd-tools :: Bruno Wolff III :: rawhide live spins 
showing black screen instead of syslinux boot menu :: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617115

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Poorly maintained gpsbabel

2010-08-02 Thread Volker Fröhlich

Hello everbody!

I maintain the QGIS package. QGIS depends on gpsbabel, which is owned by 
Silfreed, who is also the former owner of QGIS. I guess, he is not interested 
in maintaining this package any more as well.

I noticed, gpsbabel wasn't built for F14 or Rawhide. Version 1.3.6 is also 
outdated, by the way. I gave the package a look, but wasn't successful in 
solving the issue:

Gpsbabel comes with parts of libshape, zlib and jeeps and builds using these. 
Whilst you can choose to use your system's zlib, you can't do so for shapelib, 
which is only abbreviated from the original, as they state. Jeeps was forked. 
The original hasn't been touched for years.

So I guess, it's mainly changing the Makefile to use the system's shapelib.

Maybe somebody can either help me to solve the problem or can take over the 
package.

Volker Fröhlich
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Re: Fedora 14 has been branched!

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/2/10 3:05 PM, John Poelstra wrote:
 Okay.  I was going off an earlier conversation that I'd understood to be 
 we have no more 'freezes,' period, in Fedora.

I'm open to naming this page something differently, since it's not a
complete freeze.

- -- 
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Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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eaoAoJH/hLRVGIcw87Ym/6drIARhLcet
=Yyho
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Re: Poorly maintained gpsbabel

2010-08-02 Thread Tony Breeds

On Tue, Aug 03, 2010 at 01:11:54AM +0200, Volker Fröhlich wrote:

snip

 Maybe somebody can either help me to solve the problem or can take over the 
 package.

If gpsbabel is orphaned or if Silfreed is looking for a co-maintainer I'd be
happy to help.  I use gpsbabel regualrly.

Yours Tony
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Lennart Poettering mzerq...@0pointer.de wrote:
 
 Well, my reading of the situation is different. Neither will I be
 away
 for too long, nor is the amount of bugs actually that bad. If you
 look
 closely a non-trivial number have needinfo set, waiting for the
 posters
 to report back. Substantial amount are duplicate abrt backtraces.
 There
 are some feature requests. A number of bugs cover stuff like HDMI
 and auxiliary PA modules which are optional features, which are not
 entirely supported on the low-levels or upstream, and hence I don't
 think need to be fixed with high-priority. Finally a substantial
 chunk
 is mixer initialization problems, which are kinda time-intensive to
 process, because you need the help of the user to run alsamixer -c0
 and figure out what's actually going on, you need to ask him to play
 around with model=xxx as param to the HDA module. And usually that
 involves quite a bit of forth and back. And furthermore almost always
 these actually are issues that need to be fixed in ALSA, not
 PA, though I never bothered to reassign them because one needs to
 verify
 this first. (i.e.  either in the HDA driver by adding new quirks or by
 updating
 the mixer init db). Also, these kind of simple driver bugs tend to
 fix
 themselves alone, because alsa is updated all the time, and the other
 distros work on this too. So a number of these could probably be
 closed
 right-away because a newer ALSA already contains the quirk. 
 
 So, well, I don't think things are really that bad.
 

Reminds me of a quote in a book I know. 

He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home 
ruined. To his wife, he remarked, Don't see anything the matter here, Ma. 
Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?

I'm just saying.

-- Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
|   b...@fedoraunity.org||  http://fedoraunity.org/ |
|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
|http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen|
|   http://www.facebook.com/rpjensen   |

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git branch help?

2010-08-02 Thread Neal Becker

OK, got mercurial updated for devel, apparantly OK.  Now try to update f13:

 fedpkg switch-branch f13
Branch f13 set up to track remote branch f13/master from origin.

[nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git merge master
Updating f6a7cf0..33f33a6
Fast-forward
 .gitignore |2 ++
 mercurial.spec |   10 --
 sources|2 +-
 3 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

[nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ fedpkg build
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 959, in module
args.command(args)
  File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 319, in build
url, chain)
  File /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/pyfedpkg/__init__.py, line 797, in 
build
raise FedpkgError('There are unpushed changes in your repo')
pyfedpkg.FedpkgError: There are unpushed changes in your repo

[nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git status
# On branch f13
# Your branch is ahead of 'origin/f13/master' by 31 commits.
#
nothing to commit (working directory clean)

[nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ fedpkg commit -p
# On branch f13
# Your branch is ahead of 'origin/f13/master' by 31 commits.
#
nothing to commit (working directory clean)
Could not commit: Command '['git', 'commit', '-a']' returned non-zero exit 
status 1

[nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git push
To ssh://nbec...@pkgs.fedoraproject.org/mercurial
 ! [rejected]master - master (non-fast-forward)
error: failed to push some refs to 
'ssh://nbec...@pkgs.fedoraproject.org/mercurial'
To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected
Merge the remote changes before pushing again.  See the 'Note about
fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.

OK, I give up.

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Re: Fedora 14 Alpha RC Compose is At Risk

On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 16:05:25 -0700
John Poelstra poels...@redhat.com wrote:

 Tomorrow is the Alpha Deadline
 
 Chances of composing the release candidate for the Fedora 14 Alpha on 
 Thursday are not looking good, but a little time remains.  Release 
 Engineering cannot spin a Fedora 14 Release Candidate until this
 Fedora 14 Alpha Blocker is clear.
 
 If you have any additional information about these bugs, PLEASE add
 it as a comment to the bug.
 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=611990hide_resolved=1
 
 
 615443 :: NEW :: livecd-tools :: Bruno Wolff III :: booting live
 images from nightly fails (can't mount root filesystem) :: 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615443
 --looks like it could be a bug in squashfs
 --a fix appears to be in hand for the dependent bug: 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619020, but new packages 
 need to be built

We have been testing a scratch build of this all afternoon. 
I think it is fixed, but we will update the bug when we know for sure. 

 597858 :: NEW :: firefox :: Gecko Maintainer :: SELinux is
 preventing firefox from making its memory writable and executable.
 crashes rawhide firefox start ::
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=597858 --This bug has
 been open for over two months and has been on the blocker list since
 2010-07-22. --Still NO feedback from the package maintainers.
 Recently added caillon and martin to the CC in hopes someone will
 respond.

I also privately mailed some folks to see if someone who understands
the problem space could talk with upstream on their bug about it. 

 617115 :: ON_QA :: livecd-tools :: Bruno Wolff III :: rawhide live
 spins showing black screen instead of syslinux boot menu :: 
 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=617115

This should be all fixed. I will confirm with the composes from this
afternoon. 

kevin



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Re: git branch help?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/2/10 4:31 PM, Neal Becker wrote:
 OK, got mercurial updated for devel, apparantly OK.  Now try to update f13:
 
  fedpkg switch-branch f13
 Branch f13 set up to track remote branch f13/master from origin.
 
 [nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git merge master
 Updating f6a7cf0..33f33a6
 Fast-forward
  .gitignore |2 ++
  mercurial.spec |   10 --
  sources|2 +-
  3 files changed, 11 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-)

Here is where you should have done a fedpkg or git push


 [nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ fedpkg build
 Traceback (most recent call last):
   File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 959, in module
 args.command(args)
   File /usr/bin/fedpkg, line 319, in build
 url, chain)
   File /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/pyfedpkg/__init__.py, line 797, in 
 build
 raise FedpkgError('There are unpushed changes in your repo')
 pyfedpkg.FedpkgError: There are unpushed changes in your repo


This shouldn't traceback, rather just give you the error message.  The
message is right, you have stuff you haven't pushed.

 [nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git status
 # On branch f13
 # Your branch is ahead of 'origin/f13/master' by 31 commits.
 #
 nothing to commit (working directory clean)

The changes are already committed, that's how it knows you are ahead of
master by 31 commits.

 
 [nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ fedpkg commit -p
 # On branch f13
 # Your branch is ahead of 'origin/f13/master' by 31 commits.
 #
 nothing to commit (working directory clean)
 Could not commit: Command '['git', 'commit', '-a']' returned non-zero exit 
 status 1

There is nothing to commit, since all the changes are already committed.

 
 [nbec...@nbecker1 mercurial]$ git push
 To ssh://nbec...@pkgs.fedoraproject.org/mercurial
  ! [rejected]master - master (non-fast-forward)
 error: failed to push some refs to 
 'ssh://nbec...@pkgs.fedoraproject.org/mercurial'
 To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected
 Merge the remote changes before pushing again.  See the 'Note about
 fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.
 
 OK, I give up.

Somebody has changed master since you last touched it, and you had
changes on your local master that are out of sync now.  First, you
should do:

git config --add --global push.default tracking

This will make git push only attempt to push to the branch you are
tracking.  Then you can git push your f13 changes.  git checkout master
to get back to master and do a git pull --rebase to pull in the latest
upstream changes and re-play your unpushed changes on top of it.  Then
git log to see what has happened, push if necessary.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 8/2/10 4:00 PM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote:
 Reminds me of a quote in a book I know.
 
 He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find
 his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, Don't see anything the
 matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped blowin'?
 
 I'm just saying.

Bob, if you can't be nice, please don't be here.

- -- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?


- Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 No you aren't just saying. You are looking to provoke a fight. You
 don't like Pulse Audio, fine. You want to bring it up over and over,
 less fine. You want to then duck and dodge any criticism of your
 actions as being told to not insult the mother ship is just plain
 wrong. Please stop and see if you can find a better way to
 communicate. If all you can do is be sarcastic, take a break for a
 while.
 
 And yes I find Lennart to not have started this any better and I sent
 him an email just like this earlier.
 

It always amazes me how the Red Hat employees are those that speak up against 
criticism of something like this. I stand by my mothership comment no matter 
how inflammatory it may be. Can we let this go for now?

I actually like PA, it has worked for me in F12 and appears to be in F13 and I 
hope to make greater use of it in the future. The problem is with burying one's 
head in the sand saying the bugs are acceptable or not that big of a deal. It 
is a big deal because it was never dealt with in small bits as things came in.

Lennart is busy with the next great thing, I can accept that, we really have no 
other choice. Where is the failure? Perhaps it is as has been mentioned in the 
past, a bad idea for upstream to maintain/package their software projects. For 
this existing 'problem' a solution that may be ugly and hackish is to close all 
PA bugs older than say 2 months. Have a party to triage those remaining bugs 
and handle the incoming new relevant bugs as they come in. I don't think that 
this many bugs with more coming everyday should wait another 2-3 months for 
Lennart to have time to deal with them.

Seth said 'Maintaining and tending to bug reports is definitely real work.' 
This brings me to question where are the others that are upstream? Why is all 
of this falling on the shoulders of one man?

-- Bob


|   Robert 'Bob' Jensen||   Fedora Unity Founder   |
|   b...@fedoraunity.org||  http://fedoraunity.org/ |
|   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/   |
|http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen|
|   http://www.facebook.com/rpjensen   |

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Re: git branch help?

Jesse Keating wrote:
 Here is where you should have done a fedpkg or git push
[snip]
 There is nothing to commit, since all the changes are already committed.

The joys of DVCSes. People are NOT used to commit and push being different 
operations. Git is highly confusing to people who aren't git experts.

 Somebody has changed master since you last touched it, and you had
 changes on your local master that are out of sync now.  First, you
 should do:
 
 git config --add --global push.default tracking
 
 This will make git push only attempt to push to the branch you are
 tracking.  Then you can git push your f13 changes.  git checkout master
 to get back to master and do a git pull --rebase to pull in the latest
 upstream changes and re-play your unpushed changes on top of it.  Then
 git log to see what has happened, push if necessary.

Huh? Can it get any more complicated? Git is a royal PITA to use!

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

On Mon, 02.08.10 23:50, pbrobin...@gmail.com (pbrobin...@gmail.com) wrote:

  So, I guess what I want to say is: I will return full-time to PA not so
  far away. And I have a queue of patches in my checkout (including volume
  ramping and plug-in effects and similar). Also note that I'll run the
  track about audio at plumbersconf again, so there's really no reason to
  believe that I moved on or PA was dead.
 
 Which is great and I understand that but systemd will basically cover
 the release time frame for F-13 and F-14 and in that timeframe the
 support and issues for PA are going unfixed or even un triaged. Not
 great for a core sub system. So maybe it would be a good idea to train
 up a few people that can do the boring trage so you can get on with
 the upstream PA and systemd stuff so that the average end user doesn't
 need to wait for the bottle neck of a single person because presumably
 with other distros using it Fedora isn't the only distro demanding
 your time.

Audio hackers unfortunately don't grow on trees. In my counting, there
are 3 people paid in the whole industry who work on general purpose
audio infrastructure of Linux. Two of them are basically busy with
keeping the HDA driver up-to-date, if I am correctly informed. The third
one is me.

As long as things are that way the entire weight of fixing bugs all
across our consumer audio stack are basically lying on three pairs of
shoulders, and that defines the speed in which we process bugs. So,
please be patient.

One would wish that a certain other company with a clear focus on
desktop Linux (where consumer audio is a key part of) would want to
actually hire more folks in this area, but well, ...

I not sure whether it should be considered a failure of us consumer
audio hackers that we never managed to attract a bigger number of core
contributors. But well, I am not a Jono Bacon, and I have done quite a
number of talks about PA and related techs on many conferences, both
about the technical details and from a more user-related
perspective. While I like to believe that people did enjoy my talks they
didn't really have the effect of boasting the numbers of core hackers of
our audio infrastructure.

Audio hacking is often quite complex unfortunately. You need to have a
basic idea of signal processsing and RT stuff. The code involved is time
critical and usually very low-level. That makes the learning curve
steep, and doesn't help growing audio hackers.

Then again, something similar can probably be written about every other
part of our Linux infrastructure. I am still waiting for the project
that doesn't have too feww, but too many people making contributions
;-).

But anyway. We have come quite far in the last years, and I actually
think the status quo is not bad at all anymore. I have a pretty
positive view on things, so while it of course would be great if we
could fix all open bugs tomorrow, I don't think it should be considered
a catastrophic desaster if we didn't.

Lennart

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
 While Lennart has moved onto bigger and better things, which isn't a
 bad thing, it seems that the maintainership of PA in Fedora hasn't
 moved on to other maintianers or at least if Lennart is interested in
 maintaining it he hasn't aquired someone to assist in co-maintenance.
 Nor does it seem the case with alot of other fedora desktop packages.
 If you want to look at other main line desktop packages that don't
 seem to have active maintainer ship look at the webkit thread from the
 last day or so. And there are others that come to mind that don't seem
 to be actively maintained.

s/desktop/GNOME/

KDE packages are tracking upstream closely and are regularly updated, 
including upstream bugfixes. Plus, we backport or sometimes even develop 
bugfixes of our own.

To me, this shows that a model where upstream versions are tracked by 
updates is much more viable than attempting (and miserably failing) to 
backport bug fixes only.

It also shows that KDE SIG actually has more and/or more efficient packaging 
(as opposed to upstream development) manpower than the GNOME folks, unlike 
what has been frequently claimed.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Wordpress testers needed!

2010-08-02 Thread Jon Ciesla




 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Jon Ciesla
l...@jcomserv.net wrote:
  In an effort to try
to reduce and eliminate Wordpress's reliance on
 bundled PHP
libraries, I've produced some test builds.  If someone

familiar with administering Wordpress and Wordpress-mu could test to
 make sure the changes don't break anything and let me know,
what would
 be wonderful and appreciated.
 
 What build in what tree do you want tested? 

The builds
linked at zanoni.jcomserv.net, not in any branch.  They're  based off
of rawhide from early July.  The sole modifications are to  strip
bundled libs and Require and link to system versions.  A request was
made to help with this, I had experience with it and volunteered, and this
was my first iteration.  I asked for testing the bug so I knew
whether I could commit to rawhide but I never heard back from the
maintainer or anyone else on the BZ.

 Also I think that
with
 wordpress 3 the separate wordpress-mu release fork has been
merged
 into mainline. So wouldn't it be better to concentrate on
wordpress 3?
 


Well, yes, probably.  That
might even help with the bundled library situation.  But that's an
issue for the maintainer.  I could help with that too, if needed.


-J

 Peter
 

https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/314

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544720

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544721

http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress/

http://zanoni.jcomserv.net/fedora/wordpress-mu/

 --
 - in your fear, speak only peace

  in your fear, seek only love

 -d.
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in your fear, seek
only love

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Matthias Clasen

On Tue, 2010-08-03 at 03:23 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:

 
 It also shows that KDE SIG actually has more and/or more efficient packaging 
 (as opposed to upstream development) manpower than the GNOME folks, unlike 
 what has been frequently claimed.

I was on vacation for two weeks, but I'm back now. So our manpower
should be even again :-)

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Re: Wordpress testers needed!

2010-08-02 Thread Chen Lei

2010/8/3 Jon Ciesla l...@jcomserv.net:
 Also I think that with
 wordpress 3 the separate wordpress-mu release fork has been merged
 into mainline. So wouldn't it be better to concentrate on wordpress 3?



 Well, yes, probably.  That might even help with the bundled library
 situation.  But that's an issue for the maintainer.  I could help with that
 too, if needed.


The wordpress owner said  if someone with lots of PHP knowledge wants
to take it I would
 be happy if it keeps getting maintained. in the last reply in fedora devel 
 list. I think it will much much if we can update wordpress to 3.x. 2.8 branch 
 is pretty old, and few people want to test it(2.9 is very mature now and 3.0 
 is also released a while ago).


Regards,
Chen Lei
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

I wrote:
 s/desktop/GNOME/
 
 KDE packages are tracking upstream closely and are regularly updated,
 including upstream bugfixes. Plus, we backport or sometimes even develop
 bugfixes of our own.
 
 To me, this shows that a model where upstream versions are tracked by
 updates is much more viable than attempting (and miserably failing) to
 backport bug fixes only.
 
 It also shows that KDE SIG actually has more and/or more efficient
 packaging (as opposed to upstream development) manpower than the GNOME
 folks, unlike what has been frequently claimed.

PS: And since PulseAudio is a shared technology also used by other desktops 
than just GNOME, I'd be willing to pick up comaintainership, but then it'd 
very likely be maintained in KDE SIG style, aggressively tracking upstream 
development.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

Matthias Clasen wrote:
 I was on vacation for two weeks, but I'm back now. So our manpower
 should be even again :-) 

LOL, it's true that you do a lot of work all by yourself. ;-)

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?

2010-08-02 Thread Rahul Sundaram

 On 08/03/2010 09:06 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
 PS: And since PulseAudio is a shared technology also used by other desktops 
 than just GNOME, I'd be willing to pick up comaintainership, but then it'd 
 very likely be maintained in KDE SIG style, aggressively tracking upstream 
 development.

IMO,  if you want to be a co-maintainer,  you will have to coordinate
and work with the model preferred by the primary maintainer.   Otherwise
disputes will make the process worse and not better. 

Rahul
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Re: Is PulseAudio dead?