Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Tom Lane wrote: That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not. Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call computers. Those have always been and should remain our primary target. (If you do think that Apple's decisions are an important factor here, why are you so much not on board with pushing ARM? Apple's certainly doing their darndest to make ARM a mainstream arch.) Apple's PPC machines were computers. Apple's ARM machines are not. One big reason being that Apple is doing everything they can to prevent you from installing a non-Apple operating system (such as Fedora) on them. And that opinion is simply wrong. You have provided no justification I did. The justification is that there is, at this time, only one architecture seriously relevant for computers (defined as desktops or laptops/notebooks). for allowing Fedora to get boxed in on a single architecture, which is the inevitable end result of the thinking you espouse. It is not. Supporting more architectures (and having working ports to fall back on when the need should arise) is what secondary architectures are for. Pointing at individual deficiencies of individual arches is not a justification; especially not in view of all the problems x86 itself has got. The Linux community has slowly worked around x86's limitations, the same could happen for any other arch. Wow, you seem to really hate x86. But please accept the fact that, no matter how much you hate x86, it is THE relevant architecture right now. The only reason this doesn't happen is people trying to justify not putting in the work by rationalizing that that architecture is obsolete In most cases, it is. or Intel is the top of the heap today, so I don't need to bother thinking about anything else. I'd rephrase that as That architecture is not mature yet., i.e. the opposite problem compared to That architecture is obsolete. It will be time to consider ARM for primary architecture status when it will be a serious contender in the computer (as defined previously) market. Or in other words: you sir are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I still see no problem. I'm not saying that I think ARM is the ideal other primary arch, but it seems to have more momentum than most of the other choices. We should be looking for ways to make it a PA, or make something else a PA. We should not be looking for excuses for monoculturalism. They're not excuses, they're valid reasons to not waste valuable developer time on niche architectures. Let the people who care about those architectures work on them (which is how the secondary architecture system works)! If we settle for that, we'll have only ourselves to blame when we become irrelevant, not too many years down the road. Nonsense. As long as we have healthy secondary architectures, we can promote them to primary when it really makes sense, i.e. when/if the x86 apocalypse happens. (By the way, don't count on it happening at all. The end of x86 has been proclaimed so many times, yet each of the prophecies has been proven wrong so far. Not even the move to 64-bit and Intel putting its weight behind a non-x86 64-bit architecture were able to kill x86. What was killed instead was the Itanium, dubbed Itanic by many. Don't be too quick to write off x86!) There is no need whatsoever to make the move to primary now. Who knows what architecture (if any) will replace x86 in the end, it might not be ARM at all! Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: our computers are about to become typewriters. It will not be a decade longer. http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/03/canalys-more-smartphones-than-pcs-shipped-in-2011/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+%28Engadget%29 While I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future the people that actually replace there traditional computers with tablets or even smartphones are near zero. Sells do not really tell the whole story as many people simply don't have a need to buy new laptops/desktops because what they have is good enough so they spend there money on other gadgets. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: drago01 wrote: Those numbers look way better then Kevin's 50x slower without any citation ... thanks for getting this numbers. I'm surprised emulating ARM in QEMU is so much faster than qemu-system- x86_64 (which was how I measured the 50 times). Given that x86_64 is way more complex then ARM it is not *that* surprising. Are they really using QEMU for everything or are they actually using host or cross tools (and QEMU only for when the build process is trying to run a just built binary)? The later i.e cross tools + user emulation for binaries. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:32 AM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: drago01 wrote: Those numbers look way better then Kevin's 50x slower without any citation ... thanks for getting this numbers. I'm surprised emulating ARM in QEMU is so much faster than qemu-system- x86_64 (which was how I measured the 50 times). Given that x86_64 is way more complex then ARM it is not *that* surprising. Are they really using QEMU for everything or are they actually using host or cross tools (and QEMU only for when the build process is trying to run a just built binary)? The later i.e cross tools + user emulation for binaries. OK as Dennis said it seems they also run the compilers through qemu. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Brendan Conoboy b...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/21/2012 11:18 AM, drago01 wrote: But there seems to be a huge oppositions against that in Fedora. How does Ubuntu build there ARM builds? Native or using cross compilers? Native. OK kind of unexpected though. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 1:23 AM, drago01 wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: our computers are about to become typewriters. It will not be a decade longer. http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/03/canalys-more-smartphones-than-pcs-shipped-in-2011/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+%28Engadget%29 While I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future the people that actually replace there traditional computers with tablets or even smartphones are near zero. You're assuming they had a computer to begin with. The data is noisy but there's a significant minority who do not have computers, now buying a smart phone. This will grow. They may never end up with a desktop. Even Apple has disconnected a requirement for having a desktop. My parents are candidates for replacing their laptop with just an iPad. Maybe 1/4 of the friends I have use a desktop/laptop once a week or less. And increasingly less often. Their phone? Can't live without it. It's already a primary device. Sells do not really tell the whole story as many people simply don't have a need to buy new laptops/desktops because what they have is good enough so they spend there money on other gadgets. Mobile devices are replaced more frequently than desktops, which could also skew the data toward mobile. But Apple didn't become the biggest company in the world by market capitalization, eclipsing Microsoft and even Exxon-Mobile, by selling desktops and laptops. It's iOS. (And the iMonostore.) Desktop computers are used overwhelmingly for email and web browsing. It's total overkill. The desktop computer is a super computer that no consumer really needs. It's a dying market. It's now servers and mobile. The transitional element will be laptops/ultrabooks (netbooks obviously are dead) which will keep desktop operating systems and x86 around as a significant minority, but not for long. Thunderbolt on an ARM tablet to connect a larger display, bluetooth keyboard, and internet access and the overwhelming majority can do what they need to do. The economies of scale of desktops, even in business, is dropping rapidly. For home users, it has already happened a while ago. They don't need a desktop. They probably don't need a laptop either. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 1:23 AM, drago01 wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: our computers are about to become typewriters. It will not be a decade longer. http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/03/canalys-more-smartphones-than-pcs-shipped-in-2011/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fengadget+%28Engadget%29 While I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future the people that actually replace there traditional computers with tablets or even smartphones are near zero. You're assuming they had a computer to begin with. I was talking about this people. People that had no access to computers to begin with are of course a different story. The data is noisy but there's a significant minority who do not have computers, now buying a smart phone. This will grow. They may never end up with a desktop. Even Apple has disconnected a requirement for having a desktop. My parents are candidates for replacing their laptop with just an iPad. Maybe 1/4 of the friends I have use a desktop/laptop once a week or less. Interesting. People I know just using them (tablets) as toys to play some causal games, surf the net read mails. They go back to there laptops / desktops to do anything beyond that. And increasingly less often. Their phone? Can't live without it. It's already a primary device. Well people couldn't live without dumbphones either so this is natural progress. Sells do not really tell the whole story as many people simply don't have a need to buy new laptops/desktops because what they have is good enough so they spend there money on other gadgets. Mobile devices are replaced more frequently than desktops, which could also skew the data toward mobile. But Apple didn't become the biggest company in the world by market capitalization, eclipsing Microsoft and even Exxon-Mobile, by selling desktops and laptops. It's iOS. (And the iMonostore.) I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future ... yes no doubt that market still has a potential to grow. I just do not believe that a significant amount of people will throw there desktops/laptops away and use tablets / smartphones instead. Desktop computers are used overwhelmingly for email and web browsing. It's total overkill. The desktop computer is a super computer that no consumer really needs. It's a dying market. It's now servers and mobile. The transitional element will be laptops/ultrabooks (netbooks obviously are dead) which will keep desktop operating systems and x86 around as a significant minority, but not for long. Tablets are 99% consumption only devices. Your are missing the production market ... people do use computers to do work, write the apps that the tablet/smartphone people enjoy etc. So no there is still a marked beyond the consumption only devices (tablets) and the data centers (servers). The world is not black and white. Thunderbolt on an ARM tablet to connect a larger display, bluetooth keyboard, and internet access and the overwhelming majority can do what they need to do. Which is a lot more work then simply open the laptop and start working. The economies of scale of desktops, even in business, is dropping rapidly. Not seeing this happening. Switching to tabelts is just unproductive (it does make sense for some uses though). For home users, it has already happened a while ago. They don't need a desktop. They probably don't need a laptop either. When home user == only consumes content then yes but that is not necessarily the only use of computers / laptops at home either. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:10 AM, drago01 wrote: Interesting. People I know just using them (tablets) as toys to play some causal games, surf the net read mails. They go back to there laptops / desktops to do anything beyond that. Most people don't. It's important to understand most of us on this list aren't most people. Toys? FAA Approves IPad for Flight Navigation http://www.tabletedia.com/news/2820.html Here's a quote from a doctor: Even if you’re not at home, you can quickly pick up your phone, view the EKG, and take care of patients remotely. http://www.imedicalapps.com/2011/12/apple-top-iphone-ipad-medical-apps-2011/ This is doing 2 minute google searches... People read books on mobile devices. Computers? Ick. I'm not reading a book on a computer. It's unpleasant. I can't read on a mobile device because I need a browser with an average of 34 tabs. Most people lack my lunacy. And increasingly less often. Their phone? Can't live without it. It's already a primary device. Well people couldn't live without dumbphones either so this is natural progress. They could. They had desktops or laptops. Most people would replace their phone in a day if it broke or were lost. A home computer? Weekend. Maybe next weekend. I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future ... yes no doubt that market still has a potential to grow. I just do not believe that a significant amount of people will throw there desktops/laptops away and use tablets / smartphones instead. Most people will. There will be no advantage to a desktop or laptop. So far, speed is all that's really come up. That's going to be a non-issue in a hurry. There's BILLIONS of dollars pouring into mobile and tablet right now. It's what people want. Tablets are 99% consumption only devices. Your are missing the production market ... people do use computers to do work, write the apps that the tablet/smartphone people enjoy etc. Developer market? Image editing and video editing stations? Small markets. Enough to maintain x86? Yeah sure, for a while. But as a majority? Mobile market isn't just syphoning users from the consumer desktop market, it's growing the market. So no there is still a marked beyond the consumption only devices (tablets) and the data centers (servers). The world is not black and white. It is a shrinking market. Thunderbolt on an ARM tablet to connect a larger display, bluetooth keyboard, and internet access and the overwhelming majority can do what they need to do. Which is a lot more work then simply open the laptop and start working. Consumers are complicated. For home users, it has already happened a while ago. They don't need a desktop. They probably don't need a laptop either. When home user == only consumes content then yes but that is not necessarily the only use of computers / laptops at home either. It's the majority case. Email, web browser, books, Netflix, and it's a baby sitter. It's like candy multiplied by TV for kids. Way more interesting for them than desktop computers or laptops. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: H.264 in Fedora 17!
On Mar 21, 2012 12:47 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Avi אבי Alkalay אלקלעי wrote: What are the legal tools that Ubuntu uses so it can ship H.264 ? It's based on the Isle of Man, not in the USA. Which doesn't provide that much protection as a couple of online poker companies recently discovered Peter Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 01:38 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: (but the multi-core ARM setups actually present themselves as a multi-computer cluster, which is not supported by make -j, not as a multi-CPU computer) FWIW, I'm pretty sure this is not the case for the ARM computers on the way now: they are multi-core multi-threaded. Andrew. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 02:00 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Peter Robinson wrote: Exactly! Ultimately what we need is FESCo to document what are the requirements of being promoted to a primary architecture and then it's the ARM SIGs job of ensuring they adhere to the requirements, provide viable workable alternatives that are acceptable to FESCo, or provide proof that the requirement will be met within an agreed time frame. ARM should most definitely NOT be approved as a primary architecture before all the requirements are actually met! Hold on, these requirements are something you just made up to suit your argument. Andrew. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: H.264 in Fedora 17!
- Original Message - Jaroslav Reznik wrote: The only thing we can do here is to make it easier for people to get these not nice codecs if they demand the support. Maybe in the same way as with Fluendo MP3 long time ago? If you want it, take the risks on you and pay the licence fees... As far as I know, Fluendo actually does sell a H.264 decoder for GStreamer (which is the framework Firefox is going to use), but unlike the MP3 one: * its copyright license is proprietary (the Fluendo MP3 decoder is BSD- licensed and only the patent license restricts your freedom) and * it costs money. Those issues make it not an attractive option for most people compared to gstreamer-plugins-ugly. :-) But that's the only way how we can legally point people to the solution. We can't show the PackageKit window saying - now enable the repo we shouldn't talk about :D and say install gstreamer-plugins-ugly. In that case we can just ship it in our own repos :) On the other hand - we can show you the way, we do not agree with (as it's proprietary non free implementation), you have to pay - but that's the penalty for not using Google :) R. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:10 AM, drago01 wrote: Interesting. People I know just using them (tablets) as toys to play some causal games, surf the net read mails. They go back to there laptops / desktops to do anything beyond that. Most people don't. It's important to understand most of us on this list aren't most people. I didn't claim thatI just countered your my parents example ... basically this kind of evidence is moot ... we need more data to judge that. Toys? I said the people I was talking about used them as toys. (Please read what I wrote and don't try to refute stuff that isn't even written there). FAA Approves IPad for Flight Navigation http://www.tabletedia.com/news/2820.html Here's a quote from a doctor: Even if you’re not at home, you can quickly pick up your phone, view the EKG, and take care of patients remotely. http://www.imedicalapps.com/2011/12/apple-top-iphone-ipad-medical-apps-2011/ This is doing 2 minute google searches... Again see the enterprise part (it does make sense for some uses though). ... those are those uses. I am not saying tablets are useless. I am just saying those are *different* devices. You don't replace a plane with a car either. People read books on mobile devices. Computers? Ick. I'm not reading a book on a computer. It's unpleasant. I can't read on a mobile device because I need a browser with an average of 34 tabs. Most people lack my lunacy. Well I'd prefer a real boot or an ereader over a computer or tablet. And increasingly less often. Their phone? Can't live without it. It's already a primary device. Well people couldn't live without dumbphones either so this is natural progress. They could. They had desktops or laptops. Most people would replace their phone in a day if it broke or were lost. A home computer? Weekend. Maybe next weekend. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future ... yes no doubt that market still has a potential to grow. I just do not believe that a significant amount of people will throw there desktops/laptops away and use tablets / smartphones instead. Most people will. There will be no advantage to a desktop or laptop. So far, speed is all that's really come up. That's going to be a non-issue in a hurry. There's BILLIONS of dollars pouring into mobile and tablet right now. It's what people want. Actually speed isn't an advantage see the (now dead) netbook hype. For most people current speed is good enough (hence no need to go buy a new computer every year). Tablets are 99% consumption only devices. Your are missing the production market ... people do use computers to do work, write the apps that the tablet/smartphone people enjoy etc. Developer market? Image editing and video editing stations? Small markets. Enough to maintain x86? Yeah sure, for a while. But as a majority? Office, DTP and probably others or in short content creation. Mobile market isn't just syphoning users from the consumer desktop market, it's growing the market. So no there is still a marked beyond the consumption only devices (tablets) and the data centers (servers). The world is not black and white. It is a shrinking market. it is a saturated marked. Thunderbolt on an ARM tablet to connect a larger display, bluetooth keyboard, and internet access and the overwhelming majority can do what they need to do. Which is a lot more work then simply open the laptop and start working. Consumers are complicated. ... For home users, it has already happened a while ago. They don't need a desktop. They probably don't need a laptop either. When home user == only consumes content then yes but that is not necessarily the only use of computers / laptops at home either. It's the majority case. Email, web browser, books, Netflix, and it's a baby sitter. It's like candy multiplied by TV for kids. Way more interesting for them than desktop computers or laptops. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: H.264 in Fedora 17!
On Mar 21, 2012 2:30 AM, Fedora Video fedoravi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote: Note that Debian does include a decoder by default for both MP3 and H.264 but they can only do so because they are a non-profit and the worst case scenario is a injunction until they remove the infringing parts so realistically noone is going to go after them because one cannot extract money from Debian. This is not true according to the debian social contract. http://www.debian.org/social_contract There is no mention of copyright on the page. It is not a page about copyright. Your argument is refuted most strongly by License Must Not Be Specific to Debian No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor The document is quite clear that Debian will not distribute software which only they can distribute or which can only be distributed non-commercially. Debian distributes H.264 because it is free at least in the majority of the world which does not have a terrorist government. Put down your religion and look again. On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 8:46 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Avi אבי Alkalay אלקלעי wrote: What are the legal tools that Ubuntu uses so it can ship H.264 ? It's based on the Isle of Man, not in the USA. Ubuntu's parent company is headquartered in the UK just like RedHat is headquartered in the US. If the US's repressive laws are holding Fedora back, why not simply open a Fedora organization in the Isle of Man just like Ubuntu has done. In any case. This argument is moot. Fedora will distribute H.264 because it will be part of Firefox. It won't actually be part of Firefox at all as they are providing the ability to talk to an OS provided set of codecs including H.264 so it's essentially a pass through. The linux means of doing this will likely be gstreamer. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Evolution + bogofilter
On Tue, 2012-03-20 at 10:17 -0500, Mike Chambers wrote: evolution's backup doesn't contain your bogofilter database, it's stored in a bogofilter private directory, thus I guess you need to train it again? Yes I understand it has to relearn. But it doesn't is the problem. I had to keep marking them as junk. Hi, just a little follow-up. I came across similar question with other user and even not for him, but for me, in my F17 install, I get an empty string when issuing: $ dconf read /org/gnome/evolution/mail/junk-default-plugin regardless the schema file defines the default value as 'Bogofilter'. Maybe that's the reason for non-working automatic spam filtering? Bye, Milan P.S.: I would change the value while evolution is off, just to make sure its change will be taken in the effect -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Reminder. Please build ImageMagick dependencies until March 23
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:20:19 -0600, OP (Orion) wrote: Still would be nice to be able to strip off the version and .src.rpm, but meh. … | sed 's!-[^-]\+-[^-]\+\.src\.rpm$!!g' -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:46 PM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:10 AM, drago01 wrote: Interesting. People I know just using them (tablets) as toys to play some causal games, surf the net read mails. They go back to there laptops / desktops to do anything beyond that. Most people don't. It's important to understand most of us on this list aren't most people. I didn't claim thatI just countered your my parents example ... basically this kind of evidence is moot ... we need more data to judge that. Toys? I said the people I was talking about used them as toys. (Please read what I wrote and don't try to refute stuff that isn't even written there). FAA Approves IPad for Flight Navigation http://www.tabletedia.com/news/2820.html Here's a quote from a doctor: Even if you’re not at home, you can quickly pick up your phone, view the EKG, and take care of patients remotely. http://www.imedicalapps.com/2011/12/apple-top-iphone-ipad-medical-apps-2011/ This is doing 2 minute google searches... Again see the enterprise part (it does make sense for some uses though). ... those are those uses. I am not saying tablets are useless. I am just saying those are *different* devices. You don't replace a plane with a car either. People read books on mobile devices. Computers? Ick. I'm not reading a book on a computer. It's unpleasant. I can't read on a mobile device because I need a browser with an average of 34 tabs. Most people lack my lunacy. Well I'd prefer a real boot or an ereader over a computer or tablet. And increasingly less often. Their phone? Can't live without it. It's already a primary device. Well people couldn't live without dumbphones either so this is natural progress. They could. They had desktops or laptops. Most people would replace their phone in a day if it broke or were lost. A home computer? Weekend. Maybe next weekend. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future ... yes no doubt that market still has a potential to grow. I just do not believe that a significant amount of people will throw there desktops/laptops away and use tablets / smartphones instead. Most people will. There will be no advantage to a desktop or laptop. So far, speed is all that's really come up. That's going to be a non-issue in a hurry. There's BILLIONS of dollars pouring into mobile and tablet right now. It's what people want. Actually speed isn't an advantage see the (now dead) netbook hype. For most people current speed is good enough (hence no need to go buy a new computer every year). Tablets are 99% consumption only devices. Your are missing the production market ... people do use computers to do work, write the apps that the tablet/smartphone people enjoy etc. Developer market? Image editing and video editing stations? Small markets. Enough to maintain x86? Yeah sure, for a while. But as a majority? Office, DTP and probably others or in short content creation. Mobile market isn't just syphoning users from the consumer desktop market, it's growing the market. So no there is still a marked beyond the consumption only devices (tablets) and the data centers (servers). The world is not black and white. It is a shrinking market. it is a saturated marked. Thunderbolt on an ARM tablet to connect a larger display, bluetooth keyboard, and internet access and the overwhelming majority can do what they need to do. Which is a lot more work then simply open the laptop and start working. Consumers are complicated. ... For home users, it has already happened a while ago. They don't need a desktop. They probably don't need a laptop either. When home user == only consumes content then yes but that is not necessarily the only use of computers / laptops at home either. It's the majority case. Email, web browser, books, Netflix, and it's a baby sitter. It's like candy multiplied by TV for kids. Way more interesting for them than desktop computers or laptops. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly, The desktop and laptops are there to stay. Considering ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is not a bad idea. But Sorry, why is this proposed? Do you intend to run Fedora on your smartphones or tablets? I think that making ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is a lot of work, I have no idea of the resources available in terms of developers, machines (in case of native builds),testers etc. And what will Fedora have achieved after putting in so
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:50 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Chris Tyler wrote: On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 02:38 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: And finally, for our build speed issue, the practical consideration will be whether the parallelism will actually speed our builds up. Right now our builds are either serial or have portions parallelized with make -j, which assumes a single multi-CPU computer (but the multi-core ARM setups actually present themselves as a multi-computer cluster, which is not supported by make -j, not as a multi-CPU computer), so the parallelism does little to the latency of an individual build (though of course it does help the overall throughput). Actually, there's both: ARM scales to multiple cores per CPU (dual-core and quad-core are common, and very high core counts are on the horizon), and vendors are preparing many-CPU boxes (e.g., HP Redstone, with 288 quad core (+1 management core) systems in 4U). But there are x86 CPUs with more than 4 cores, and multi-CPU SMP systems which still present themselves as one (multi-CPU/core) computer. IIRC, our x86 Koji builders have 16 cores per machine (might be even more by now, not sure). But as you said yourself in an earlier thread a lot of compilation isn't massively parallel so massive amount of cores for building isn't necessarily as much a win as pure GHz. On that front the current A15 gen which is arriving now easily does the 2.5 - 3 ghz that the intel platforms do (yes, I know they go to 3.6 but they're not regularly used primarily due to heat) and most of the recent wins on Intel architecture has been for media related things through various SSE versions and other offload functions for things like crypto all of which aren't massively used in standard compilation and all of which have similar functionality on ARM platforms. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Brendan Conoboy wrote: Hypothetically speaking, if presented with an ARM system that builds packages, on average, 3x faster than x86, will you advocate that x86 be dropped to secondary and ARM be PA exclusively? Not if most computers (which to me means desktops, notebooks, maybe netbooks, but most definitely not smartphones) are still x86. We didn't make Cray or S/390 our primary architecture either, in the days where the fastest supercomputers weren't x86 clusters yet. ;-) No, but then speed of building isn't the only criteria of becoming a primary arch. Ultimately we're asking FESCo to define the criteria so we can assess whether we meet them and wish to progress to a primary arch. We're (being ARM SIG, FESCo and pretty much everyone else) well and truly aware the only thing you care about is build speed, and I can understand that, I would care too if I had to build QT on a regular basis. If we really do get to a point where x86 is dead and everything is ARM (and hopefully by then we'll also have ARM builders at least as fast as the x86 ones!), that will be the point where I will indeed advocate that x86 be dropped to secondary and ARM be the exclusive primary arch (even though it'd hurt my personal usage because I'm not the type who replaces his computer every year). But right now we're very far from that. But it's not just about computers, I'm very surprised that being the KDE advocate you are that you don't want to run your hard work on the KDE based Spark/Vivaldi tablet. Sure it's hypothetical, but if that one variable changes, how does your position change? Well, of course, in that case, ARM being added as an additional primary architecture would be at least acceptable. (It doesn't affect the question of whether it'd be USEFUL though. See also the previous paragraphs.) We already know that it's going to be useful, that's ultimately why we're requesting it. Ultimately whether it is useful to you particularly is a moot point as you are not the Fedora project as a whole and hence the whole Fedora project doesn't revolve around you. ARM's possible promotion to primary arch isn't about you, or even the ARM SIG, it's a question of whether it's useful to the Fedora project as a whole. I personally believe it is, as do numerous other people people, groups, and other organisations, hence the reason a number of us have put in a considerable amount of work to make it usable. The same could be said about the KDE project within Fedora, you find it useful, I've never used it and hence it is useless to me but that doesn't mean I try and have it removed from the project because I am just one person and not the project and there are a number of people that have put a considerable amount of time into the KDE sub project. I don't really see the ARM request to be any different. I could the same argument about KDE in terms of the number of desktops that you are using about ARM and the number of architectures. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 10:17 AM, elison.ni...@gmail.com wrote: And what will Fedora have achieved after putting in so much work? A few users (read geeks) who will be willing to install Fedora on their android tablets or ipads? Are there any ARM boards out in the market that are waiting to get Fedora installed on them? Where is the hardware? Do you see signs of ARM boards coming in the near future (next 1 year or so) on which users can install operating systems of their choice? I wonder where you've been. See Raspberry Pi and Trimslice for a couple of recent ones. Andrew. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Well people couldn't live without dumbphones either so this is natural progress. They could. They had desktops or laptops. Most people would replace their phone in a day if it broke or were lost. A home computer? Weekend. Maybe next weekend. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. Actually that is not the case, it might be the case in the western developed world, but in the developing world in places like China, India and Africa in most cases the first an only device that a user has is a smart phone or tablet due to the fact it's low power, runs off batteries and has wireless connectivity, I think you'll find the sale of these style of devices in those places out flanks everything else, they are selling 100s of millions of them. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Andrew Haley a...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/22/2012 01:38 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: (but the multi-core ARM setups actually present themselves as a multi-computer cluster, which is not supported by make -j, not as a multi-CPU computer) FWIW, I'm pretty sure this is not the case for the ARM computers on the way now: they are multi-core multi-threaded. That is correct, I presume he's referring to the big.LITTLE architecture which runs 8 cores, 4 low power low speed, 4 high power high speed. At the moment for the initial implementation they are suspending / resuming to switch between the pair but in the future they plan to be able to run all 8 at once. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 12:57 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: What do people buy these days? Phones, tablets, and TVs. Not desktop computers. Citation needed. Desktop/notebook computers aren't going to go away any time soon. http://www.economist.com/node/21531109 with some interesting charts Which is actually confirmation of the previous sentence. The smartphones, tablets and similar devices together are growing much much faster than desktops and notebooks and are already much bigger market but they are not replacement for the desktops and notebooks. Which also supports the idea of having Fedora support both of these groups of computing devices well. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Broken dependencies: perl-Language-Prolog-Yaswi
perl-Language-Prolog-Yaswi has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On x86_64: perl-Language-Prolog-Yaswi-0.19-1.fc17.x86_64 requires libswipl.so.5.10.5()(64bit) On i386: perl-Language-Prolog-Yaswi-0.19-1.fc17.i686 requires libswipl.so.5.10.5 Please resolve this as soon as possible. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly, The desktop and laptops are there to stay. Considering ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is not a bad idea. But Sorry, why is this proposed? Do you intend to run Fedora on your smartphones or tablets? It's got nothing to do with smart phones and tablets. We don't intend on supporting Fedora on smart phones (not to say a third party group can't though), we're reviewing tablets and it will certainly be possible to run it on tablets, the level of support out of the box is undecided. The thing it does have to do with it ARM netbooks/laptops/smarttops as well as dev boards and servers. There's 100s of ARM devices out there that aren't tablets or smartphones. I think that making ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is a lot of work, I have no idea of the resources available in terms of developers, machines (in case of native builds),testers etc. Don't you think that the ARM SIG that has been working on ARM on Fedora for close to 2 years might be aware of this? And what will Fedora have achieved after putting in so much work? A few users (read geeks) who will be willing to install Fedora on their android tablets or ipads? Are there any ARM boards out in the market that are waiting to get Fedora installed on them? Yes, there's lots of devices. HP/Calxeda servers [1], Dell has announced intention to do ARM servers[2], the XO 1.75 [3] and XO-3 [4] devices, the Spark Tablet [5] and around a dozen different smartbooks, nettops, development boards to name but a few. Where is the hardware? Do you see signs of ARM boards coming in the near future (next 1 year or so) on which users can install operating systems of their choice? If the answer is yes, I would recommend considering ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora. If the answer is no, I think it is probably too early to consider ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora. The answer is already yes, and is going to increase substantially in the coming months/year. Peter [1] http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9221370/Calxeda_s_chip_boosts_ARM_s_server_fight_with_Intel [2] http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/21/dell-wants-in-on-arm-server-field-says-software-still-has-some/ [3] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.75 [4] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-3 [5] http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Spark-tablet-announced/?kc=rss Accepted. Thank you for taking the trouble to clarify. Best Regards, Elison Niven -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Tomas Mraz tm...@redhat.com wrote: On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 12:57 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote: On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: What do people buy these days? Phones, tablets, and TVs. Not desktop computers. Citation needed. Desktop/notebook computers aren't going to go away any time soon. http://www.economist.com/node/21531109 with some interesting charts Which is actually confirmation of the previous sentence. The smartphones, tablets and similar devices together are growing much much faster than desktops and notebooks and are already much bigger market but they are not replacement for the desktops and notebooks. That depends, in the developed western world probably not, in the developing world most users are just going straight to smartphones and tablets and not bothering with desktops/laptops at all. The reasons for this is low power and price. In those areas desktops are dead and the increase in usage in this markets is 100s of millions of devices are year and for a lot of users it's their only means of accessing the internet and associated information. Which also supports the idea of having Fedora support both of these groups of computing devices well. Exactly one of the primary drivers for us to open up the discussion. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: H.264 in Fedora 17!
I gave up a long time ago on using Linux as my primary desktop: I found my self spending too much time helping the computer to work correctly than having the computer helping me to work better. I think the Fedora Project is about advanced Open Source mostly (but not only) for server side, task automation, excellent sysadmin practices and soberb software deployment. So in my opinion if a user insists on using Linux on the desktop he would also know about alternative repos with all H.264s, MP3s and DVDCSSs he will need. At the end of the day, Fedora to not ship with H.264, MP3 etc is not a big problem. Avi On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 06:00, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 21, 2012 12:47 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Avi אבי Alkalay אלקלעי wrote: What are the legal tools that Ubuntu uses so it can ship H.264 ? It's based on the Isle of Man, not in the USA. Which doesn't provide that much protection as a couple of online poker companies recently discovered Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Broken dependencies: parcellite
Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 18:30 +0100 schrieb Thomas Spura: On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wick...@googlemail.com wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 12:52 + schrieb build...@fedoraproject.org: parcellite has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On i386: parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libpango-1.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgobject-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3.4)(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libX11.so.6()(64bit) Please resolve this as soon as possible. I resolved this on March 10th with 1.0.2-0.2.rc5 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=306351 but still I keep getting these mails. Why? And why is the script complaining about the F17 package when there is a F18 one in rawhide? Looks like the script looks for fc17, but says it's rawhide... Yeah, except that I get another mail for F17. (There are still broken deps in fc17, because your update is not yet stable: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2012-3933/parcellite-1.0.2-0.2.rc5.fc17 ) I was aware of the F17 update not yet being pushed. The funny (?) thing is that the F17 mails stopped after the update was in testing, only rawhide continues and I have no idea why. Regards, Christoph -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[Bug 805898] perl-Text-VimColor-0.17 is available
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=805898 Petr Pisar ppi...@redhat.com changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC||ppi...@redhat.com AssignedTo|mmasl...@redhat.com |ppi...@redhat.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Lane wrote: That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not. Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call computers. Those have always been and should remain our primary target. Check out the numbers from The Economist: http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/20111008_SRM111.gif The number of desktops has been flat for last 7 years. The growth in the smartphone/tablet area dwarfs 'what we normally call computers'. The whole article is at http://www.economist.com/node/21531109 Wow, you seem to really hate x86. But please accept the fact that, no matter how much you hate x86, it is THE relevant architecture right now. ARM claims an installed base of 25 billion CPUS, and current deployment rate of 6 billion new CPUs per year. Granted, a large fraction of that are microcontrollers (single purpose, no virtual memory etc), but still, the total number of x86 machines is about 500 million. Nonsense. As long as we have healthy secondary architectures, we can promote them to primary when it really makes sense, i.e. when/if the x86 apocalypse happens. (By the way, don't count on it happening at all. The end of x86 has been proclaimed so many times, yet each of the prophecies has been proven wrong so far. Not even the move to 64-bit and Intel putting its weight behind a non-x86 64-bit architecture were able to kill x86. What was killed instead was the Itanium, dubbed Itanic by many. Don't be too quick to write off x86!) There is no need whatsoever to make the move to primary now. I had an interesting discussion with VIA---asked them why don't they compete with Intel's inexpensive Atom platforms. They weren't interested in the low end; they claimed that there's plenty of demand for traditional 'few hundred bucks' price point. I think they are wrong about how sustainable that demand is---ARM has low-end CPUs for 1$ (ST, NXP, TI), and the OS-capable ones for under 10$. Now, does it mean that we need to rush the ARM primary architecture? Of course not--as others have said, one gets the job because one can do the job, but we need to figure out the details of how to get there: - toolchain/build environment speed - better and/or standard installation mechanism - QA techniques -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Module-ExtractUse] Update to 0.25
commit 918b8aebc5857f0fab77eda37ad5f03f5c57d22d
Author: Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org
Date: Thu Mar 22 13:05:05 2012 +
Update to 0.25
- New upstream release 0.25
- Autogenerate the grammar during ./Build (CPAN RT#74879)
- Added $VERSION to into Module::ExtractUse::Grammar (CPAN RT#75342)
- Require at least version 1.967009 of Parse::RecDescent (CPAN RT#75130)
- Fix typos (CPAN RT#75115)
- Switched to Dist::Zilla
- Drop grammar recompilation, no longer needed
- BR: perl(Test::More)
- Bump perl(Module::Build) version requirement to 0.3601
- Bump perl(Parse::RecDescent) version requirement to 1.967009
- Drop perl(Pod::Strip) and perl(Test::Deep) version requirements
- Package manpage for Module::ExtractUse::Grammar
perl-Module-ExtractUse.spec | 34 ++
sources |2 +-
2 files changed, 23 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-)
---
diff --git a/perl-Module-ExtractUse.spec b/perl-Module-ExtractUse.spec
index 77ad03d..f36730f 100644
--- a/perl-Module-ExtractUse.spec
+++ b/perl-Module-ExtractUse.spec
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
Name: perl-Module-ExtractUse
-Version:0.24
-Release:3%{?dist}
+Version:0.25
+Release:1%{?dist}
Summary:Find out what modules are used
License:GPL+ or Artistic
Group: Development/Libraries
@@ -9,10 +9,11 @@ Source0:
http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/Module/Module-ExtractUse-%
BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(id -nu)
BuildArch: noarch
BuildRequires: perl(Carp)
-BuildRequires: perl(Module::Build)
-BuildRequires: perl(Parse::RecDescent) = 1.94
-BuildRequires: perl(Pod::Strip) = 1.00
-BuildRequires: perl(Test::Deep) = 0.087
+BuildRequires: perl(Module::Build) = 0.3601
+BuildRequires: perl(Parse::RecDescent) = 1.967009
+BuildRequires: perl(Pod::Strip)
+BuildRequires: perl(Test::Deep)
+BuildRequires: perl(Test::More)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::NoWarnings)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod::Coverage)
@@ -28,12 +29,6 @@ from CPAN) used by the parsed code.
%prep
%setup -q -n Module-ExtractUse-%{version}
-# Recompile the grammar to work with the new Parse::RecDescent (CPAN RT#74879)
-cd lib/Module/ExtractUse
-rm Grammar.pm
-perl -MParse::RecDescent - grammar Module::ExtractUse::Grammar
-cd -
-
%build
perl Build.PL installdirs=vendor
./Build
@@ -57,8 +52,23 @@ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%dir %{perl_vendorlib}/Module/ExtractUse/
%{perl_vendorlib}/Module/ExtractUse/Grammar.pm
%{_mandir}/man3/Module::ExtractUse.3pm*
+%{_mandir}/man3/Module::ExtractUse::Grammar.3pm*
%changelog
+* Thu Mar 22 2012 Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org - 0.25-1
+- Update to 0.25
+ - Autogenerate the grammar during ./Build (CPAN RT#74879)
+ - Added $VERSION to into Module::ExtractUse::Grammar (CPAN RT#75342)
+ - Require at least version 1.967009 of Parse::RecDescent (CPAN RT#75130)
+ - Fix typos (CPAN RT#75115)
+ - Switched to Dist::Zilla
+- Drop grammar recompilation, no longer needed
+- BR: perl(Test::More)
+- Bump perl(Module::Build) version requirement to 0.3601
+- Bump perl(Parse::RecDescent) version requirement to 1.967009
+- Drop perl(Pod::Strip) and perl(Test::Deep) version requirements
+- Package manpage for Module::ExtractUse::Grammar
+
* Mon Mar 19 2012 Paul Howarth p...@city-fan.org - 0.24-3
- Recompile the grammar to work with the new Parse::RecDescent (CPAN RT#74879)
diff --git a/sources b/sources
index d81d4b1..2e056dd 100644
--- a/sources
+++ b/sources
@@ -1 +1 @@
-d09df52dfd1da63aebf1db7bb9485d8b Module-ExtractUse-0.24.tar.gz
+b734e5b208d036a8ba6a07afa8f6c6d7 Module-ExtractUse-0.25.tar.gz
--
Fedora Extras Perl SIG
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl
perl-devel mailing list
perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[Bug 805898] perl-Text-VimColor-0.17 is available
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=805898 Petr Pisar ppi...@redhat.com changed: What|Removed |Added Status|ASSIGNED|CLOSED Fixed In Version||perl-Text-VimColor-0.17-1.f ||c18 Resolution||RAWHIDE Last Closed||2012-03-22 09:12:55 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
[perl-Module-ExtractUse] Created tag perl-Module-ExtractUse-0.25-1.fc18
The lightweight tag 'perl-Module-ExtractUse-0.25-1.fc18' was created pointing to: 918b8ae... Update to 0.25 -- Fedora Extras Perl SIG http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SIGs/Perl perl-devel mailing list perl-de...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/perl-devel
Re: Broken dependencies: parcellite
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:41:37 +0100, CW (Christoph) wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 18:30 +0100 schrieb Thomas Spura: On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 12:52 + schrieb buildsys: parcellite has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On i386: parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libpango-1.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgobject-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3.4)(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libX11.so.6()(64bit) Please resolve this as soon as possible. I resolved this on March 10th with 1.0.2-0.2.rc5 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=306351 but still I keep getting these mails. Why? And why is the script complaining about the F17 package when there is a F18 one in rawhide? Looks like the script looks for fc17, but says it's rawhide... Yeah, except that I get another mail for F17. (There are still broken deps in fc17, because your update is not yet stable: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2012-3933/parcellite-1.0.2-0.2.rc5.fc17 ) I was aware of the F17 update not yet being pushed. The funny (?) thing is that the F17 mails stopped after the update was in testing, only rawhide continues and I have no idea why. Are you sure about that? parcellite is still listed in the F-17 Branched report broken deps, but not in the rawhide report. The Branched report covers F17 + updates, but not updates-testing. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit : On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Lane wrote: That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not. Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call computers. Those have always been and should remain our primary target. Check out the numbers from The Economist: http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/20111008_SRM111.gif The number of desktops has been flat for last 7 years. The growth in the smartphone/tablet area dwarfs 'what we normally call computers'. Apples and oranges. You could print the same stats a few years ago about cars vs scooters/bicycles Guess what all the Chinese/Indian bicycle riders started to buy as soon as they had the means to… All those numbers show is that the developing countries are actually developing (surprise!), and that they transition from nothing to cheapest solution possible. That does not mean they'll stick to this stage forever. -- Nicolas Mailhot -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Test-File-Contents] 0.20
commit 3dc7662dfce59f1c0da31b2c3e2a638182071a4b
Author: Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org
Date: Thu Mar 22 10:12:09 2012 -0400
0.20
.gitignore |1 +
perl-Test-File-Contents.spec | 10 +++---
sources |2 +-
3 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)
---
diff --git a/.gitignore b/.gitignore
index b10d9b7..e3bc640 100644
--- a/.gitignore
+++ b/.gitignore
@@ -1 +1,2 @@
Test-File-Contents-0.05.tar.gz
+/Test-File-Contents-0.20.tar.gz
diff --git a/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec b/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
index 5ab3c65..73541ed 100644
--- a/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
+++ b/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
Name: perl-Test-File-Contents
-Version:0.05
-Release:10%{?dist}
+Version:0.20
+Release:1%{?dist}
Summary:Test routines for examining the contents of files
License:GPL+ or Artistic
Group: Development/Libraries
@@ -13,6 +13,7 @@ BuildRequires: perl(Test::Builder::Tester)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::More)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod::Coverage)
+BuildRequires: perl(Text::Diff)
Requires: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_%(eval `%{__perl} -V:version`; echo
$version))
%description
@@ -41,11 +42,14 @@ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%files
%defattr(-,root,root,-)
-%doc Changes README
+%doc Changes
%{perl_vendorlib}/*
%{_mandir}/man3/*
%changelog
+* Thu Mar 22 2012 Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org - 0.20-1
+- update to 0.20
+
* Fri Jan 13 2012 Fedora Release Engineering rel-...@lists.fedoraproject.org
- 0.05-10
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_17_Mass_Rebuild
diff --git a/sources b/sources
index 47f1153..30cf968 100644
--- a/sources
+++ b/sources
@@ -1 +1 @@
-6bdc15a6345a3ef693a6e2326331b6ec Test-File-Contents-0.05.tar.gz
+b4ed786c03ca5ccaf694b41a1e98d85f Test-File-Contents-0.20.tar.gz
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Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 15:04 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit : On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: Tom Lane wrote: That opinion is flat out ridiculous. Or maybe it makes sense if you think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not. Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call computers. Those have always been and should remain our primary target. Check out the numbers from The Economist: http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/20111008_SRM111.gif The number of desktops has been flat for last 7 years. The growth in the smartphone/tablet area dwarfs 'what we normally call computers'. Apples and oranges. You could print the same stats a few years ago about cars vs scooters/bicycles Guess what all the Chinese/Indian bicycle riders started to buy as soon as they had the means to… All those numbers show is that the developing countries are actually developing (surprise!), and that they transition from nothing to cheapest solution possible. That does not mean they'll stick to this stage forever. And even if they sticked to this stage it still would not mean that the market for full featured computers would somehow disappear. We are still talking only about relative number changes. In absolute numbers the full featured computers are still rising. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Test-File-Contents] Digest::MD5
commit 806f8a0291ee8c1bc78880971fba0fca801c4a3c
Author: Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org
Date: Thu Mar 22 10:18:09 2012 -0400
Digest::MD5
perl-Test-File-Contents.spec |1 +
1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)
---
diff --git a/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec b/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
index 73541ed..d13fbd4 100644
--- a/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
+++ b/perl-Test-File-Contents.spec
@@ -14,6 +14,7 @@ BuildRequires: perl(Test::More)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod)
BuildRequires: perl(Test::Pod::Coverage)
BuildRequires: perl(Text::Diff)
+BuildRequires: perl(Digest::MD5)
Requires: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_%(eval `%{__perl} -V:version`; echo
$version))
%description
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Re: Broken dependencies: parcellite
Am Donnerstag, den 22.03.2012, 14:53 +0100 schrieb Michael Schwendt: On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:41:37 +0100, CW (Christoph) wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 18:30 +0100 schrieb Thomas Spura: On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 21.03.2012, 12:52 + schrieb buildsys: parcellite has broken dependencies in the rawhide tree: On i386: parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libpango-1.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgobject-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libglib-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libgdk-x11-2.0.so.0()(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3.4)(64bit) parcellite-1.0.2-0.1.rc5.fc17.i686 requires libX11.so.6()(64bit) Please resolve this as soon as possible. I resolved this on March 10th with 1.0.2-0.2.rc5 http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=306351 but still I keep getting these mails. Why? And why is the script complaining about the F17 package when there is a F18 one in rawhide? Looks like the script looks for fc17, but says it's rawhide... Yeah, except that I get another mail for F17. (There are still broken deps in fc17, because your update is not yet stable: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2012-3933/parcellite-1.0.2-0.2.rc5.fc17 ) I was aware of the F17 update not yet being pushed. The funny (?) thing is that the F17 mails stopped after the update was in testing, only rawhide continues and I have no idea why. Are you sure about that? parcellite is still listed in the F-17 Branched report broken deps, but not in the rawhide report. The Branched report covers F17 + updates, but not updates-testing. Last mail I got for rawhide was Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:52:55 + (UTC) Last mail for F17 is date Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:00:01. Kind regards, Christoph -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly, The desktop and laptops are there to stay. Considering ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is not a bad idea. But Sorry, why is this proposed? Do you intend to run Fedora on your smartphones or tablets? It's got nothing to do with smart phones and tablets. We don't intend on supporting Fedora on smart phones (not to say a third party group can't though), we're reviewing tablets and it will certainly be possible to run it on tablets, the level of support out of the box is undecided. Well this is harder then you think as most tablets don't allow you to change the OS (easily) while others don't allow you to change it at all. The only ones where this is possible right now are actually x86 based tablets. Even Windows 8 wont help here as MS mandates that the devices are locked with secure boot without having an option to disable it. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Class-Container/f17] fix br
commit d5b5e844a2af512f9425266f08d3721fef8d2dba
Author: Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org
Date: Thu Mar 22 10:55:55 2012 -0400
fix br
perl-Class-Container.spec |6 +-
1 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
---
diff --git a/perl-Class-Container.spec b/perl-Class-Container.spec
index fdff0b6..55f412b 100644
--- a/perl-Class-Container.spec
+++ b/perl-Class-Container.spec
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
Name: perl-Class-Container
Version:0.12
-Release:15%{?dist}
+Release:16%{?dist}
Summary:Class::Container Perl module
License:GPL+ or Artistic
Group: Development/Libraries
@@ -10,6 +10,7 @@ BuildRoot:
%{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)
BuildArch: noarch
BuildRequires: perl(ExtUtils::MakeMaker)
BuildRequires: perl(Params::Validate) = 0.23
+BuildRequires: perl-Pod-Perldoc
Requires: perl(Params::Validate) = 0.23
Requires: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_%(eval `%{__perl} -V:version`; echo
$version))
@@ -68,6 +69,9 @@ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%{_mandir}/man3/*
%changelog
+* Thu Mar 22 2012 Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org - 0.12-16
+- fix BR
+
* Fri Jan 13 2012 Fedora Release Engineering rel-...@lists.fedoraproject.org
- 0.12-15
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_17_Mass_Rebuild
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Outage: fedorapeople.org - 2012-03-26 21:00 UTC
Outage: fedorapeople.org - 2012-03-26 21:00 UTC There will be an outage starting at 2012-03-26 21:00 UTC, which will last approximately 2 hours. To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto or run: date -d '2012-03-26 21:00 UTC' Reason for outage: We are moving the main fedorapeople.org host to another site. This site will allow us to provide additional group storage for various groups that need download space, as well as being closer to our backup server to allow for quicker backups. Affected Services: Fedora People - http://fedorapeople.org/ Unaffected Services: Ask Fedora - http://ask.fedoraproject.org/ BFO - http://boot.fedoraproject.org/ Bodhi - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/ Buildsystem - http://koji.fedoraproject.org/ GIT / Source Control DNS - ns1.fedoraproject.org, ns2.fedoraproject.org Docs - http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ Email system Fedora Account System - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ Fedora Community - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/ Fedora Hosted - https://fedorahosted.org/ Fedora Insight - https://insight.fedoraproject.org/ Main Website - http://fedoraproject.org/ Mirror List - https://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/ Mirror Manager - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mirrormanager/ Package Database - https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/ QA Services Secondary Architectures Smolt - http://smolts.org/ Spins - http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ Start - http://start.fedoraproject.org/ Torrent - http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ Wiki - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ Ticket Link: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/3213 Contact Information: Please join #fedora-admin or #fedora-noc on irc.freenode.net or add comments to the ticket for this outage above. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel-announce mailing list devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Class-Container] fix br
commit 905c7572b719dda5465b5d8a5433f2a0326cdc82
Author: Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org
Date: Thu Mar 22 10:56:09 2012 -0400
fix br
perl-Class-Container.spec |6 +-
1 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)
---
diff --git a/perl-Class-Container.spec b/perl-Class-Container.spec
index fdff0b6..55f412b 100644
--- a/perl-Class-Container.spec
+++ b/perl-Class-Container.spec
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
Name: perl-Class-Container
Version:0.12
-Release:15%{?dist}
+Release:16%{?dist}
Summary:Class::Container Perl module
License:GPL+ or Artistic
Group: Development/Libraries
@@ -10,6 +10,7 @@ BuildRoot:
%{_tmppath}/%{name}-%{version}-%{release}-root-%(%{__id_u} -n)
BuildArch: noarch
BuildRequires: perl(ExtUtils::MakeMaker)
BuildRequires: perl(Params::Validate) = 0.23
+BuildRequires: perl-Pod-Perldoc
Requires: perl(Params::Validate) = 0.23
Requires: perl(:MODULE_COMPAT_%(eval `%{__perl} -V:version`; echo
$version))
@@ -68,6 +69,9 @@ rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%{_mandir}/man3/*
%changelog
+* Thu Mar 22 2012 Tom Callaway s...@fedoraproject.org - 0.12-16
+- fix BR
+
* Fri Jan 13 2012 Fedora Release Engineering rel-...@lists.fedoraproject.org
- 0.12-15
- Rebuilt for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_17_Mass_Rebuild
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Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:28 PM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: I see that this discussion has gone from ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora to a general Tablets vs PC market discussion. IMHO, While there is no doubt that the tablet/mobile market is growing rapidly, The desktop and laptops are there to stay. Considering ARM as a primary architecture for Fedora is not a bad idea. But Sorry, why is this proposed? Do you intend to run Fedora on your smartphones or tablets? It's got nothing to do with smart phones and tablets. We don't intend on supporting Fedora on smart phones (not to say a third party group can't though), we're reviewing tablets and it will certainly be possible to run it on tablets, the level of support out of the box is undecided. Well this is harder then you think as most tablets don't allow you to change the OS (easily) while others don't allow you to change it at all. It's not harder than I think, I've been working on Fedora ARM and I know exactly the level of hardness and a number of the possible issues involved so I would actually appreciate if you would do some of your own research, I've been looking into and dealing with tablet options for running Fedora for quite some time. The only ones where this is possible right now are actually x86 based tablets. Even Windows 8 wont help here as MS mandates that the devices are locked with secure boot without having an option to disable it. No that is definitely not the case that it is x86 only, for tablets that are BIOS locked, yes, it's a non starter, but there are many ARM tablets that are BIOS unlocked and will, in time, be able to run Fedora just fine. For starters the OLPC XO-3 tablet will run Fedora on ARM out of the box, it's relatively easy to get Linux running on the Asus Transformer [1] as well as a number of other Tegra based tablets and then there's the Spark tablet that will run KDE's Plasma tablet interface out of the box using Mer, but there's won't be too much work to make that Fedora. So it is possible, it would be even possible right now for the determined hacker, but with time we'll make this easier for the general end user to install it onto various tablets but in the beginning we're aiming for the servers and the dev boards/nettops/smart books as they are readily available and easily supportable. Peter [1] http://gizmodo.com/5874133/olpc-xo-30-hands-on-the-100-wonder-tablet [2] http://www.xda-developers.com/android/almost-perfect-native-ubuntu-on-asus-transformer/ [3] http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Spark-tablet-announced/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Evolution + bogofilter
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 10:40 +0100, Milan Crha wrote: Hi, just a little follow-up. I came across similar question with other user and even not for him, but for me, in my F17 install, I get an empty string when issuing: $ dconf read /org/gnome/evolution/mail/junk-default-plugin regardless the schema file defines the default value as 'Bogofilter'. Maybe that's the reason for non-working automatic spam filtering? Bye, Milan P.S.: I would change the value while evolution is off, just to make sure its change will be taken in the effect On F16 I run the dconf line above and returns nothing as well, cept junk stuff works. How do you change the value, as in what is the command and what am I suppose to see/read in the dconf if it's working correctly? -- Mike Chambers Madisonville, KY Best little town on Earth! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
GSoC-2012
Hello! I am Siddharth 2nd year Undergraduate student pursuing M.Sc(TECH) Information Systems at BITS-Pilani India. I am thorough with languages like C, C++ and Java and currently learning Python. I am keenly interested in contributing to the Integrate Proxy Settings and Network Connections(Locations) project of Fedora Projects for GSoC-2012. My understanding of the project is that when a user connects to a network, all settings such as proxy settings, IP settings (if required), sharing options etc will be saved for each network. So whenever the user connects to a previously connected network all these settings are automatically loaded. Thus making networking much more user friendly. Please suggest me how should I go about the project. Should I straight away make a proposal and send it across or do something else prior to that. Any suggestion or advice will help a lot. :) Thanking you. Best regards, Siddharth Mohan Misra. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: GSoC-2012
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012, Siddharth Mohan Misra wrote: My understanding of the project is that when a user connects to a network, all settings such as proxy settings, IP settings (if required), sharing options etc will be saved for each network. So whenever the user connects to a previously connected network all these settings are automatically loaded. Thus making networking much more user friendly. So I should setup a LINKSYS network with a proxy pointing to my server and let people connect ? :) Is there more then just the security that's based on the ESSID? Paul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
rawhide report: changes
Compose started at Thu Mar 22 08:15:13 UTC 2012 Broken deps for x86_64 -- [HippoDraw] HippoDraw-devel-1.21.3-2.fc17.i686 requires python-numarray HippoDraw-devel-1.21.3-2.fc17.x86_64 requires python-numarray HippoDraw-python-1.21.3-2.fc17.x86_64 requires python-numarray [aeolus-conductor] aeolus-conductor-0.4.0-2.fc17.noarch requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 [aeolus-configserver] aeolus-configserver-0.4.1-5.fc17.noarch requires ruby-nokogiri [alexandria] alexandria-0.6.8-2.fc17.1.noarch requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 [catfish] catfish-engines-0.3.2-4.fc17.1.noarch requires pinot [comoonics-cdsl-py] comoonics-cdsl-py-0.2-19.noarch requires comoonics-base-py [comoonics-cluster-py] comoonics-cluster-py-0.1-25.noarch requires comoonics-base-py [contextkit] contextkit-0.5.15-2.fc15.i686 requires libcdb.so.1 contextkit-0.5.15-2.fc15.x86_64 requires libcdb.so.1()(64bit) [converseen] converseen-0.4.9-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libMagickWand.so.5()(64bit) converseen-0.4.9-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libMagickCore.so.5()(64bit) converseen-0.4.9-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libMagick++.so.5()(64bit) [dh-make] dh-make-0.55-4.fc17.noarch requires debhelper [eruby] eruby-1.0.5-17.fc17.x86_64 requires libruby.so.1.8()(64bit) eruby-libs-1.0.5-17.fc17.i686 requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 eruby-libs-1.0.5-17.fc17.i686 requires libruby.so.1.8 eruby-libs-1.0.5-17.fc17.x86_64 requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 eruby-libs-1.0.5-17.fc17.x86_64 requires libruby.so.1.8()(64bit) [gcc-python-plugin] gcc-python2-debug-plugin-0.9-1.fc17.x86_64 requires gcc = 0:4.7.0-0.10.fc17 gcc-python2-plugin-0.9-1.fc17.x86_64 requires gcc = 0:4.7.0-0.10.fc17 gcc-python3-debug-plugin-0.9-1.fc17.x86_64 requires gcc = 0:4.7.0-0.10.fc17 gcc-python3-plugin-0.9-1.fc17.x86_64 requires gcc = 0:4.7.0-0.10.fc17 [gearmand] gearmand-0.23-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libtcmalloc.so.0()(64bit) gearmand-0.23-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libmemcached.so.8()(64bit) gearmand-0.23-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libboost_program_options-mt.so.1.47.0()(64bit) [genius] genius-1.0.12-2.fc15.x86_64 requires libgmp.so.3()(64bit) gnome-genius-1.0.12-2.fc15.x86_64 requires libgmp.so.3()(64bit) [gnome-phone-manager] gnome-phone-manager-0.66-9.fc17.x86_64 requires libgnome-bluetooth.so.9()(64bit) [gnome-user-share] gnome-user-share-3.0.1-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libgnome-bluetooth.so.9()(64bit) [gorm] gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.i686 requires libobjc.so.3 gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.i686 requires libgnustep-gui.so.0.20 gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.i686 requires libgnustep-base.so.1.23 gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.x86_64 requires libobjc.so.3()(64bit) gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.x86_64 requires libgnustep-gui.so.0.20()(64bit) gorm-1.2.13-0.2.20110331.fc17.x86_64 requires libgnustep-base.so.1.23()(64bit) [gscribble] gscribble-0.1.2-2.fc17.noarch requires gnome-python2-gtkhtml2 [i3] i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-property.so.1()(64bit) i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-keysyms.so.1()(64bit) i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-icccm.so.1()(64bit) i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-event.so.1()(64bit) i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-aux.so.0()(64bit) i3-4.0.1-2.fc17.x86_64 requires libxcb-atom.so.1()(64bit) [ibus-fep] ibus-fep-1.4.3-1.fc17.x86_64 requires libibus-1.0.so.0()(64bit) [ibus-gucharmap] ibus-gucharmap-1.4.0-3.fc17.x86_64 requires libibus-1.0.so.0()(64bit) [ibus-panel-extensions] ibus-panel-extensions-1.4.99.20111207-1.fc17.i686 requires libibus-1.0.so.0 ibus-panel-extensions-1.4.99.20111207-1.fc17.x86_64 requires libibus-1.0.so.0()(64bit) [ibus-unikey] ibus-unikey-0.6.1-1.fc17.x86_64 requires libibus-1.0.so.0()(64bit) [jboss-jaxrpc-1.1-api] jboss-jaxrpc-1.1-api-1.0.1-0.1.20120309gita3c227.fc17.noarch requires jboss-servlet-3.0-api [kazehakase] kazehakase-ruby-0.5.8-11.svn3873_trunk.fc17.x86_64 requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 kazehakase-ruby-0.5.8-11.svn3873_trunk.fc17.x86_64 requires libruby.so.1.8()(64bit) [libprelude] 1:libprelude-ruby-1.0.0-11.fc17.x86_64 requires ruby(abi) = 0:1.8 1:libprelude-ruby-1.0.0-11.fc17.x86_64 requires libruby.so.1.8()(64bit) [libteam] libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.i686 requires libnl-route-3.so.199 libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.i686 requires libnl-nf-3.so.199 libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.i686 requires libnl-genl-3.so.199 libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.i686 requires libnl-cli-3.so.199 libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.i686 requires libnl-3.so.199 libteam-0.1-3.20120130gitb5cf2a8.fc17.x86_64
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Where is the hardware? -- development boards -- BeagleBoard PandaBoard (dual-core 1GHz, 1GB) PandaBoard ES (dual-core 1.2GHz, 1GB) You can buy the above at digikey, they've been shipping for a while. They come with Ubuntu Desktop, just add keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Raspberry Pi - slower, but just add keyboard, mouse, and monitor. I hear they got 200,000 order requests, far exceeding their first manufacturing run. These run Fedora desktop. -- desktop/server -- Trimslice (dual-core 1GHz, 1GB, internal SATA) - dual display, comes with Ubuntu desktop, just add keyboard, mouse, monitor(s). I have one of these as a public web/git server, and a second for a desktop build machine (my two run Fedora, of course). These have been available for a while now. I hear OLPC just shipped 60,000 ARM laptops to their first customer. These run Fedora Desktop. I have one of these on my desk. AC100 laptop (toshiba) - I don't know the tech details, but some of us have Fedora on these. Also the sheeva/guru/pogo/dreamplug home servers -- near future -- HP Project Moonshot - hundreds of multi-core multi-gb Calxeda server-grade arm processors in a 4U rack. We (the Fedora/ARM project) also have some quad-core 4GB server-grade prototypes in-house, these will be generally available soon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Broken dependencies: parcellite
On 03/22/2012 04:24 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 22.03.2012, 14:53 +0100 schrieb Michael Schwendt: On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:41:37 +0100, CW (Christoph) wrote: I was aware of the F17 update not yet being pushed. The funny (?) thing is that the F17 mails stopped after the update was in testing, only rawhide continues and I have no idea why. Are you sure about that? parcellite is still listed in the F-17 Branched report broken deps, but not in the rawhide report. The Branched report covers F17 + updates, but not updates-testing. Last mail I got for rawhide was Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:52:55 + (UTC) Last mail for F17 is date Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:00:01. My guess would be that the broken deps mail you got for rawhide was actually for the F17 tree. Someone must have just messed up the script that mails out broken deps, and it says rawhide instead of F17 Branched. -- Kalev -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Broken dependencies: parcellite
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:02:57 +0200 Kalev Lember kalevlem...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/22/2012 04:24 PM, Christoph Wickert wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 22.03.2012, 14:53 +0100 schrieb Michael Schwendt: On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:41:37 +0100, CW (Christoph) wrote: I was aware of the F17 update not yet being pushed. The funny (?) thing is that the F17 mails stopped after the update was in testing, only rawhide continues and I have no idea why. Are you sure about that? parcellite is still listed in the F-17 Branched report broken deps, but not in the rawhide report. The Branched report covers F17 + updates, but not updates-testing. Last mail I got for rawhide was Wed, 21 Mar 2012 12:52:55 + (UTC) Last mail for F17 is date Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:00:01. My guess would be that the broken deps mail you got for rawhide was actually for the F17 tree. Someone must have just messed up the script that mails out broken deps, and it says rawhide instead of F17 Branched. yes, i rewrote the script this week so that it can be used for both primary and secondary arches. and i missed that bit its been fixed now and will say f17 from tomorrow Dennis -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk9rXKcACgkQkSxm47BaWfdmMACgh7WYX1pRXVhbkYAdOeLooK7S AMQAmgPrHCERdRI2GYtHff46xaAFc95D =VnpG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:52:29 -0400 Peter Jones pjo...@redhat.com wrote: 6) supported platforms must be fully integrated into building and installation. Apropos that, what are the supported platforms right now? From what I know about the Fedora on ARM, they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very poor I/O. I'd like to know if you can make a suggestion like if you want to hack on Fedora on ARM, buy Dell XXX or Archos YYY, and then we're all more or less on the same page for next 2 years at least. Or it doesn't work like that in the ARM world? -- Pete -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Mar 22, 2012, at 5:33 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: That depends, in the developed western world probably not, in the developing world most users are just going straight to smartphones and tablets and not bothering with desktops/laptops at all. The reasons for this is low power and price. Exactly. Power, price, infrastructure, space. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:16 AM, drago01 wrote: I said the people I was talking about used them as toys. (Please read what I wrote and don't try to refute stuff that isn't even written there). Don't get in a huff over things I haven't said either. Most people are also very entertained by these toys. Again see the enterprise part (it does make sense for some uses though). ... those are those uses. I am not saying tablets are useless. I am just saying those are *different* devices. You don't replace a plane with a car either. That's improper logic. The iPad is replacing 15 pounds of Jeppessen charts. Paper. They are going directly from paper to tablets. No laptop in between. As an (inactive) pilot, I fully expect professional pilots to migrate strictly to tablets on the road, and maybe intermittently use a desktop/laptop as a transitional device. That is already underway. Well I'd prefer a real boot or an ereader over a computer or tablet. My dad is 82. My sister bought him a Kindle for his birthday middle of last year. He uses it more than the laptop, more than real books. The transition took maybe a couple of months. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. In the whole world? You're sure about that? I'm not. Actually speed isn't an advantage see the (now dead) netbook hype. For most people current speed is good enough (hence no need to go buy a new computer every year). I see this as 2-4 years for the consumer desktop upgrade market's meaningful existence. 4-6 years for laptops. People use them less and less already, and will upgrade them less frequently. And at the point where what they want to do on mobile no longer requires them to go to laptop? Why have one? Office, DTP and probably others or in short content creation. My customers are desktop publishing. It's a small market. And yes, they will continue to buy more powerful machines longer than the rest of the market. But look at where Adobe is emphasizing new development. Cloud applications. For content creators. One of my largest customers has done more training and modernization for content creators recently than in years, primarily driven by ebook. That demand is not ebook on laptop, it's ebook on mobile devices. So no there is still a marked beyond the consumption only devices (tablets) and the data centers (servers). The world is not black and white. It is a shrinking market. it is a saturated marked. Yeah, it's a popping bubble. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 12:23 AM, drago01 wrote: While I agree that we will see more smartphones and tablets in the future the people that actually replace there traditional computers with tablets or even smartphones are near zero. Sells do not really tell the whole story as many people simply don't have a need to buy new laptops/desktops because what they have is good enough so they spend there money on other gadgets. I don't believe phones and tablets are going to completely usurp desktop computers, but if Fedora doesn't offer a path for people whose primary computer is a cell phone or tablet, we lose out on the next generation of developers and end users. That's a sure way to irrelevance. Then again, all this is beside the point: We're targeting ARM servers in the proposal. The groundwork we lay with ARM servers will also lead to Fedora's ability to support mobile devices including ARM laptops, tablets, and phones. But it's a much longer journey to run Fedora on a phone than it's going to be to run it on a server. -- Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / b...@redhat.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 8:04 AM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: Apples and oranges. You could print the same stats a few years ago about cars vs scooters/bicycles Guess what all the Chinese/Indian bicycle riders started to buy as soon as they had the means to… They did not, are not. Especially in congested cities. Most New Yorkers in Manhattan can afford cars. They don't have them. There's other infrastructure that works better, and they don't need to individually own it. You're making assumptions that people really want desktop machines, it's just a matter of affording it. You're applying your own preferences to a huge market, which doesn't have your requirements, but does have its own. Desktops have from day 1 been *irritating* to most users. They were not embraced in the home. They were never loved. They came into the home via work, hobbyists, kids for school work, and then entertainment (music, pictures, video) and became useful. Mobile and tablets are immediately useful. It took almost no time for the market to grow up once a certain company released a product. And people love these things. Normal every day non-geeks cry if they get broken or lost. All those numbers show is that the developing countries are actually developing (surprise!), and that they transition from nothing to cheapest solution possible. That does not mean they'll stick to this stage forever. It's like arguing they will build landlines, because they're more reliable and have better call quality. And cell phones are just a stage that they won't be in forever. Wrong argument. Chris -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 04:26 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: Actually that is not the case, it might be the case in the western developed world, but in the developing world in places like China, India and Africa in most cases the first an only device that a user has is a smart phone or tablet due to the fact it's low power, runs off batteries and has wireless connectivity, I think you'll find the sale of these style of devices in those places out flanks everything else, they are selling 100s of millions of them. Indeed- it's even true in the US. I don't actually have a desktop- I have a laptop with a docking station- 2 monitors, quad core i7, 12GB of RAM. The next generation of this device will either be faster, smaller, a tablet, or cost less- possibly all 4. This won't stop until mobile phones and/or tables are dockable desktop computers. The high end will be servers that double as power-user desktops. There is literally no reason for anything in-between. -- Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / b...@redhat.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
From what I know about the Fedora on ARM, Please check your what you know against the current situtation, it's very easy to let obsolete impressions carry forth, but they're no longer applicable. they use a rather scary looking pile of development boards with very poor I/O. Buy a trimslice and run it with iSCSI. It's a very clean package, and I can get 80 MB/sec to my file server's disks. That is neither scary nor poor I/O. http://www.delorie.com/arm/trimslice/iscsi.html -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: Maybe a distribution of PandaBoards/R-Pi for every FAS account holder could help, any sponsor? :D OLPC is starting mass production of XO-1.75 units, based on an ARMv7 Marvell Armada 610. School kids in Uruguay and Nicaragua will start their school year with them, using a F14 ARM build. Peter Robinson has been instrumental in making this happen (and of course thanks to all the ARM porters). We have free units for Fedora developers that are interested -- we'll ship them for free anywhere in the world. The numbers are limited (we are a non-profit), apply for units here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program#FAQ Some additional discussion: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/arm/2011-July/001661.html In the form, you can state that your project is porting Fedora to ARMv7 ensuring it runs great on XO-1.75 :-) and mention what packages you're working on, or if you are or intend to be part of the Fedora ARM porters team, state so. We're on the fedora-arm mailing list, we'll know you :-) F17 upgrade is coming midyear, which will give these units a big kick in the pants in terms of performance. After that, we are cooking some bold sw+hw plans for the future. All based on ARM. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Updated Fedora ARM qemu images?
I started looking at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/HowToQemu VM starts okay in F16 with setsebool -P virt_use_execmem=on But the image is a Fedora 12 system. Any updated images out there? -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA, Boulder Office FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane or...@nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.nwra.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:01 AM, Andrew Haley a...@redhat.com wrote: Where is the hardware? Do you see signs of ARM boards coming in the near future (next 1 year or so) on which users can install operating systems of their choice? I wonder where you've been. See Raspberry Pi and Trimslice for a couple of recent ones. And kids in Uruguay and Nicaragua will soon start their school year equipped with XO-1.75 units running an OS based on Fedora-14 ARM. Battery life is wicked on these units. cheers, martin -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Bill Nottingham nott...@redhat.com wrote: drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said: The data is noisy but there's a significant minority who do not have computers, now buying a smart phone. This will grow. They may never end up with a desktop. Even Apple has disconnected a requirement for having a desktop. My parents are candidates for replacing their laptop with just an iPad. Maybe 1/4 of the friends I have use a desktop/laptop once a week or less. Interesting. People I know just using them (tablets) as toys to play some causal games, surf the net read mails. They go back to there laptops / desktops to do anything beyond that. In my experience, that's way more about the interface than anything else. Take for example a middle schooler - mine uses a laptop. Not because it runs a desktop OS, not because it runs Fedora, but mainly just because who on earth wants to write a 5 page essay with an on-screen keyboard. Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create content you want a real device. (keyboard! interface) In fact the point of a tablet is the interface which suits specific use cases very well. There's really no reason a tablet device with an attachable keyboard wouldn't work for her, and the next device she gets might *be* that; the reason it's a laptop is because it's what we had lying around. (Hooray for hand me downs!) Be prepared for complaints then ;) -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:20 PM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create content you want a real device. (keyboard! interface) Folks! In this mailing list I'd expect people to know: an arch is an arch is an arch. Some ARM CPUs will control your fridge, others will be the core SoC in your laptop, some others in your servers, others in a tablet or ebook reader. Form factor != arch. XO-1.75 is a clamshell laptop, sporting an ARM cpu. 60K units shipping just to Uy - http://blog.laptop.org/2012/03/16/uruguay-is-first-country-to-get-xo-1-75/ - F14-ARM. m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 2:20 PM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote: Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create content you want a real device. (keyboard! interface) Folks! In this mailing list I'd expect people to know: an arch is an arch is an arch. Some ARM CPUs will control your fridge, others will be the core SoC in your laptop, some others in your servers, others in a tablet or ebook reader. Form factor != arch. Oh really? I am shocked ... No idea why you are addressing this at me ... I was just replying to the tablets are taking over the world posts. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 01:57 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: Desktop computers are used overwhelmingly for email and web browsing. It's total overkill. The desktop computer is a super computer that no consumer really needs. It's a dying market. I think you may be, to some extent, over-stating your case here, Chris. It's a compelling case but not as cut-and-dried as all that, I don't think. The mitigating factors are: a) the desktop market could be considered unlikely to literally _die_. What may happen instead is it could become much more of a niche - in fact, very similar to what it was in the 1980s and early 1990s. There could always be a small amount of people who actually need or want a desktop computer, and these people could be rather close to the self-same ones they were in the 1980s and 1990s: people whose use cases intrinsically depend on large screens, keyboards, and significant whacks of power. b) Fedora has never done very well at targeting the kinds of people who are now using tablets instead of desktop computers. We've actually always been much stronger among the kinds of people described in a), and we are to a large extent a project geared towards accommodating the kinds of people described in a) (let's not kid ourselves, here). I'm just saying that broad sweeping generalizations about The Market are well and good, but it's probably a good idea before deploying them to stop and think about whether they're exactly applicable to the Fedora project, or if maybe they could use a little modification first. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
drago01 (drag...@gmail.com) said: In my experience, that's way more about the interface than anything else. Take for example a middle schooler - mine uses a laptop. Not because it runs a desktop OS, not because it runs Fedora, but mainly just because who on earth wants to write a 5 page essay with an on-screen keyboard. Which is exactly what I am trying to say as soon as you want to create content you want a real device. (keyboard! interface) In fact the point of a tablet is the interface which suits specific use cases very well. The theoretical 'you' doesn't want a real device, though - they just want a peripheral to attach to their tablet. (See also: webtop) Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hallo, because I have read, that grub2 should be able to boot from LVM. I have done the following test in a VM 1.) Fresh install of Fedora 16. Unfortunately, I can't create a disk which contains olny a volume group, so I have taken the default partition schema to install Fedora.. 2.) An full update of the Systen (yum update) 3.) Create a /bootx directory 4.) Copy the content of /boot into /bootx 5.) unmount /boot 6.) Remove /boot from /etc/fstab 7.) Clean all content of the ummountet /boot partition 8.) Rename /bootx into /boot 9. Make a grub2-install /dev/sda to install grub2 again 10. Make a cd /boot/grub2; grub2-mkconfig -o grub.cfg to generate the rigth entries in the grub configuration file. 11. Reboot the system succesfully. I would like to know, if this works for other people too. Additionally, It may be nice, if we can modifiy anaconda in the way, that you can create a paritition schema which contains only one volume group and allow to install grub2 as a bootloader in this case.into the MBR. Of corse, this will not suppoert by the legacy grub release. Best Regards: Jochen Schmitt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iJwEAQECAAYFAk9rckwACgkQZLAIBz9lVu9R6gP+N8DjkUQAihEFZxiUuUwCRTdj 4mVrGw8A5jE2OFeBrgD4DO8RcdUeCmWPOjPvHqdDT9R/S5TUQbhEJSxJHks3P2Ye pgFau5OflPpgGP+A8HUsevykIyjGcvyuTzYQ2VqnoBQdE+kHTumd1zyuc7EZeM1j 1YCbk2ZJp6Z+Fj6HBLg= =o3Jf -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On 03/20/2012 06:51 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote: On 03/20/2012 03:33 PM, Jesse Keating wrote: doing all of these things doesn't happen magically just because the board/fesco grants that ARM is suddenly a primary arch. If we made arm a primary arch tomorrow, you'd still have to solve all the above issues, only now you've got hundreds of very angry developers who's workflow is now severely interrupted, and they're all calling for your head. Doesn't it make more sense to solve these issues /before/ doing the promotion? Figure out how to make the car go 60mph before taking it onto the freeway, else you'll piss off all the other cars on the freeway. Absolutely. We're having this discussion as a way to solve the issues before promotion. None of us expect ARM to be promoted today, or tomorrow, but perhaps 3-5 months from now is realistic. Or maybe that's too soon. The bottom line is that there are issues to be worked out and that's what has prompted the discussion. I think this is the best takeway from the thread I've seen so far. We're trying to figure out where to go to get to PA. If it turns out F18 is wildly optimistic, ok, no problem. We'll come back later after we get all the kinks ironed out. But the past few days have provided invaluable initial input as we figure out how to drive at 60mph, while also giving you greater than 60mpg in power/performance :) Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[perl-Test-Requires] Created tag perl-Test-Requires-0.06-4.el5
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[perl-Test-Requires] Created tag perl-Test-Requires-0.06-4.fc15
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[perl-Test-Requires] Created tag perl-Test-Requires-0.06-4.fc16
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[perl-Test-Requires] Created tag perl-Test-Requires-0.06-4.fc17
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Re: Updated Fedora ARM qemu images?
On 03/22/2012 03:38 PM, Chris Tyler wrote: On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 12:10 -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote: I started looking at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/HowToQemu VM starts okay in F16 with setsebool -P virt_use_execmem=on But the image is a Fedora 12 system. Any updated images out there? New yum-installable RPM images coming Real Soon Now(tm) :-) Chris, David has some time to possibly help with this. I already mentioned it to him...hopefully he pinged you :) Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460: elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0xffffffff) == 8' failed!
Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460: elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0x) == 8' failed! Find the .o file which is being processed at the time of the complaint. If necessary, then use the --trace option to ld. Run readelf --relocs on that file, and see if they are all OK. If not, then you have found a compiler problem. If all the relocations look OK, then use valgrind to check ld. As always, try to reduce the number and size of input files which trigger the problem. What is the smallest case which generates the complaint? -- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Updated Fedora ARM qemu images?
On 03/22/2012 01:30 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote: On 03/22/2012 11:10 AM, Orion Poplawski wrote: I started looking at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/HowToQemu VM starts okay in F16 with setsebool -P virt_use_execmem=on But the image is a Fedora 12 system. Any updated images out there? You should be able to use the F17 alpha 1 image. The pointer is it: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM We'll have the document updated for this soon. I've set reply-to to the arm list since the responsible parties are all there. Sorry, still very green with vm wrangling. How do I take the rootfs tarball and make a qemu image I can use with libvirt? Or perhaps I'll just wait for the promised rpm installable images... :) -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA, Boulder Office FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane or...@nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.nwra.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:15 PM, drago01 wrote: Last time I checked a paper isn't a laptop / pc so replacing a paper with tablets (which can be the better choice depending on the use case) does not mean people are replacing there pcs with tablets. Both jump from PC dependency, and skipping it altogether are occurring simultaneously. Because it makes sense there. Again I didn't say that tablets are entirely useless. I just said tablets are a new type of device not desktop/laptop replacements. They are a new type of device. They are increasingly desktop/laptop replacements. A kindle (unless you mean the kindle fire tablet) is an ereader which aligns exactly with what I have said. I think you overestimate the need/dependency people have for desktop/laptop computers. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. In the whole world? You're sure about that? I'm not. It might not be the case in some regions but overall yes. Speculation. Since you took the rope and claim most people who buy smart phones do have laptops, you're invited to provide a reference. Are you aware that the number of middle class Chinese equals the entire U.S. population? That it's predicted to be ~700 million by 2020? Have you tried using two-byte languages on computers with a keyboard? It sucks. I see this as 2-4 years for the consumer desktop upgrade market's meaningful existence. 4-6 years for laptops. People use them less and less already, and will upgrade them less frequently. And at the point where what they want to do on mobile no longer requires them to go to laptop? Why have one? Again creating content. Anything that requires more then typing a few sentences. iPads have had wireless keyboard for some time. This whole email can be done just as quickly on an iPad as a desktop computer. I don't have a nice 24 screen, only because iPads don't yet have Thunderbolt. They will. Office, DTP and probably others or in short content creation. My customers are desktop publishing. It's a small market. Yes but it is just one of the content creating markets. All of content creation is a small marke next to consumer markets. It's always been this way. Again reading is content consumption which makes sense on ereaders (and maybe tablets to an extent) but actually writing the books? No. My point is if you are only consuming content you might be fine with just a tablet but as soon as you want to create content it is no longer fine. Each tool has its uses. The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And the growth is in the former, not the latter. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460: elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0xffffffff) == 8' failed!
2012/3/22 John Reiser jrei...@bitwagon.com:
Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460:
elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0x)
== 8' failed!
Find the .o file which is being processed at the time of the complaint.
.o file is not even generated
[michal@ozzy src]$ LANG=C make BUILDTYPE=Release
CXX(target)
out/Release/obj.target/base/third_party/chromium/src/base/string16.o
Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460:
elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0x)
== 8' failed!
make: *** [out/Release/obj.target/base/third_party/chromium/src/base/string16.o]
Error 2
[michal@ozzy src]$ ls out/Release/obj.target/base/third_party/chromium/src/base/
[michal@ozzy src]$
If necessary, then use the --trace option to ld.
Run readelf --relocs on that file, and see if they are all OK.
If not, then you have found a compiler problem.
If all the relocations look OK, then use valgrind to check ld.
As always, try to reduce the number and size of input files
which trigger the problem. What is the smallest case which
generates the complaint?
I tried to build hello word
#include stdio.h
int main(void)
{
printf(test\n);
return 0;
}
and it fails.
It seems to me that I have something really wrong with C/C++
toolchain. I do not remember when I last build C/C++ application on
this system - it's very possible that it was before F15 realease.
I assume that there may be some error during the some upgrade.
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Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: [...] A kindle (unless you mean the kindle fire tablet) is an ereader which aligns exactly with what I have said. I think you overestimate the need/dependency people have for desktop/laptop computers. You underestimate it ;) Lets look at the windows market ... everyone and his dog has MS Office and thus who can't afford it do pirate it. This kind of does not fit in the consumers just use facebook and gmail ... type of thinking. Most people that buy smartphones today *do* have laptops / desktoüs. In the whole world? You're sure about that? I'm not. It might not be the case in some regions but overall yes. Speculation. Since you took the rope and claim most people who buy smart phones do have laptops, you're invited to provide a reference. Unfortunately I am not aware of any such studies ... the opposite can't be proven either. I have yet to met a person that 1) does not own any kind of PC but does own a smartphone ... Might be different in some areas of the world but I doubt those are the majority. Are you aware that the number of middle class Chinese equals the entire U.S. population? That it's predicted to be ~700 million by 2020? Have you tried using two-byte languages on computers with a keyboard? It sucks. It does not matter if you want to write something longer then a mail, unless dictating text works reliably you have to use a (real) keyboard. Speaking of the US ... do you know that outside of the US there isn't that huge post pc hype going on? I see this as 2-4 years for the consumer desktop upgrade market's meaningful existence. 4-6 years for laptops. People use them less and less already, and will upgrade them less frequently. And at the point where what they want to do on mobile no longer requires them to go to laptop? Why have one? Again creating content. Anything that requires more then typing a few sentences. iPads have had wireless keyboard for some time. This whole email can be done just as quickly on an iPad as a desktop computer. I don't have a nice 24 screen, only because iPads don't yet have Thunderbolt. They will. Sure you can but this is uncomfortable ... the devices in question (tablets) are simply not suited for this kind of usage. Office, DTP and probably others or in short content creation. My customers are desktop publishing. It's a small market. Yes but it is just one of the content creating markets. All of content creation is a small marke next to consumer markets. It's always been this way. You are still claiming that consumers as in home users aren't interested in creating content ... citation? Again reading is content consumption which makes sense on ereaders (and maybe tablets to an extent) but actually writing the books? No. My point is if you are only consuming content you might be fine with just a tablet but as soon as you want to create content it is no longer fine. Each tool has its uses. The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And the growth is in the former, not the latter. They are tied together. More consumers == more demand for content == bigger creation marked. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:08 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And the growth is in the former, not the latter. I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable - either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifying as a single entity? Are we in fact truly interested in producing code for these content consumption devices? Is that what we're doing? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 16:13 -0400, Przemek Klosowski wrote: Of course predictions are tricky, especially when they concern the future :) I am curious as to what _other_ types of prediction you think exist. =) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Adam Williamson wrote: I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable - either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifying as a single entity? Are we in fact truly interested in producing code for these content consumption devices? Is that what we're doing? The only way to measure this accurately, like anything else in Fedora, is by the number of contributors. I will be looking to contribute to the ARM project in some way in hope that I can one day replace my aging N900 phone with newer, faster hardware and a real GNU/Linux image. Red Hat needs to get into the phone/tablet business: Red Hat Enterprise Mobile! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/x86_64/dl-machine.h: 460: elf_machine_rela_relative: Assertion `((reloc-r_info) 0xffffffff) == 8' failed!
I tried to build hello word
#include stdio.h
int main(void)
{
printf(test\n);
return 0;
}
and it fails.
You did not show the error message, nor the _exact_ command which
generated it. Re-run with gcc -v so that we can see.
It seems to me that I have something really wrong with C/C++
toolchain.
So, verify that all the files are present and correct:
rpm --verify $(rpm -qa | grep gcc)
rpm --verify $(rpm -qf /lib*/ld*)
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Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 15:32 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote: Adam Williamson wrote: I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable - either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifying as a single entity? Are we in fact truly interested in producing code for these content consumption devices? Is that what we're doing? The only way to measure this accurately, like anything else in Fedora, is by the number of contributors. I will be looking to contribute to the ARM project in some way in hope that I can one day replace my aging N900 phone with newer, faster hardware and a real GNU/Linux image. Red Hat needs to get into the phone/tablet business: Red Hat Enterprise Mobile! It doesn't seem like a huge over-reach to assume that any RH interest in ARM is more on the server side than a raging desire to take on Android and the iPad :) (Note: I don't have any sekrit inside info on this. It seems like a reasonable guess, though.) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
Adam Williamson wrote: It doesn't seem like a huge over-reach to assume that any RH interest in ARM is more on the server side than a raging desire to take on Android and the iPad:) (Note: I don't have any sekrit inside info on this. It seems like a reasonable guess, though.) Yes, I realize the server target over mobile, but if Nokia, a company larger than Red Hat, could do it why can't Red Hat? :) -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
memtest from F17 beta DVD images
I booted the F17 beta ISO (x86_64, if it matters) on two laptops and tried the provided memtest. In both cases it reported insane amounts of errors in test 7 after running successfully through tests 1..6. The reported error addresses are in the 120 MB area. I checked that when memtest is configured to go directly to test 7 the errors appear right away. I have not had the chance to retest with older images but the chance that both laptops independently developed RAM problems in the same area seems small. I'll do more tests and file a Bugzilla report if it checks out. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 01:23 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable - either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifying as a single entity? Are we in fact truly interested in producing code for these content consumption devices? Is that what we're doing? #include outofscope.h Fedora is not currently suitable for mobile devices. The majority of end users want content consumption, not content creation, devices. The fact that computers up to this point have been general purpose enough to be both is why we're all here having this conversation. I'm not saying Fedora is going to save the world, but it can certainly save itself by making sure that future content-consumption devices can also be used for content creation. It's the hardware that the majority of all future developers-in-potential are going to own. -- Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / b...@redhat.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:55 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: The mitigating factors are: a) the desktop market could be considered unlikely to literally _die_. What may happen instead is it could become much more of a niche - in fact, very similar to what it was in the 1980s and early 1990s. There could always be a small amount of people who actually need or want a desktop computer, and these people could be rather close to the self-same ones they were in the 1980s and 1990s: people whose use cases intrinsically depend on large screens, keyboards, and significant whacks of power. I use Photoshop, Lightroom, work on multi-gigabyte image files, as do my customers. I intrinsically depend on a large screen, a keyboard, and occasional whacks of power. I haven't owned a desktop computer in 6 years. The desktop form factor will die eventually, although the desktop user need will remain. Whether the need will be met with more powerful tablets and shared resources, or more efficient form factors that aren't so ugly, power hungry, and space inefficient - or a combination. We'll have to see. It depends on how much and how fast that market shrinks, but it will shrink. I get along just fine without a literal desktop computer, have for 6 years with just laptops/ I will eventually ditch the laptop also. Just a matter of time. I do own an old smart phone. I do not own a tablet or pad. And I'm not unique. Anecdotal data is great, but it's just anecdotal. I tried using a laptop and no desktop for a year and switched _back_ to a desktop, I found the faff involved in switching between the two setups too much of a pain. I'm sure I'm not unique either. =) I think the form factor vs. arch point is of course important here. The question of to what extent ARM has the future market for 'devices that fulfill content creation with powerful systems and chunky peripherals' sewn up, though, doesn't seem quite as settled as the future market for tablets and smartphones. I'm just saying that broad sweeping generalizations about The Market are well and good, but it's probably a good idea before deploying them to stop and think about whether they're exactly applicable to the Fedora project, or if maybe they could use a little modification first. People's needs, expectations evolve. Even developers, content creators, and geeks. Surviving projects will survive because they adapt to people's needs. Neither the market, nor its ideas, will adapt to Fedora. I don't believe anything I said above implies any such belief. In fact, I'm having difficulty seeing how what you wrote is in any way a response to what I wrote... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
If I might interrupt this non-stop streaming ARM discussion for just a second, is anyone else having problems with Firefox 11 in Fedora 16? Firefox is crashing hard, as in shutting down the entire computer. And this is happening quite frequently. Firefox is stock. No addons, or changes. Just as it came from the packager. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
Am 22.03.2012 22:04, schrieb Gerry Reno: If I might interrupt this non-stop streaming ARM discussion for just a second, is anyone else having problems with Firefox 11 in Fedora 16? Firefox is crashing hard, as in shutting down the entire computer. And this is happening quite frequently. Firefox is stock. No addons, or changes. Just as it came from the packager. No problems here. Did you run memtest to make shure your RAM is okay? Regards, Heiko -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On 03/22/2012 05:20 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: On 03/22/2012 05:13 PM, Heiko Adams wrote: Am 22.03.2012 22:04, schrieb Gerry Reno: If I might interrupt this non-stop streaming ARM discussion for just a second, is anyone else having problems with Firefox 11 in Fedora 16? Firefox is crashing hard, as in shutting down the entire computer. And this is happening quite frequently. Firefox is stock. No addons, or changes. Just as it came from the packager. No problems here. Did you run memtest to make shure your RAM is okay? Regards, Heiko Haven't been having any other problems with other apps but I'll look at running memtest. Here are some particulars: kernel-PAE-3.2.10-3.fc16.i686 firefox-11.0-1.fc16.i686 Ok, I ran memtest86+ v4.20 and it passed with no errors. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On Mar 22, 2012, at 2:23 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 14:08 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: The overwhelming bulk of the market is consumption. Not creation. And the growth is in the former, not the latter. I would still like you to consider the question of whether this holds for the Fedora case, though. Is Fedora as a project in fact suitable - either in current implementation, or in terms of our self-definition and long term goals - for this whole 'market' you are identifying as a single entity? Are we in fact truly interested in producing code for these content consumption devices? Is that what we're doing? I'm not well versed on what Fedora is interested in, other than the broad relationship with Red Hat that most anyone paying attention can realize the mutual benefits. But RHEL and Fedora are not strictly server, developer, research oriented. Business, government, educational desktops and even to some degree regular Joe User, are target markets. Perhaps Joe User is incidental. I don't know what any of these percentages are to either Red Hat or Fedora, but it's unlikely this sub-market (non-server, non-developer, non-research and non-geek) is going to behave radically differently with respect to computer form factor than the larger non-Linux computer market. These businesses, governments, schools, regular users, are looking for innovation in any case. Is Red Hat / Fedora interested in those sub-markets? I think they are. If so, the growth area is where those sub-markets are headed and that's definitely not desktop. Laptop is still a growth area for a bit longer. But clearly the biggest growth non-server, non-developer, non-geek sub-market slice is also not desktop, nor laptop. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: Haven't been having any other problems with other apps but I'll look at running memtest. Here are some particulars: kernel-PAE-3.2.10-3.fc16.i686 firefox-11.0-1.fc16.i686 What happens if you regress to an older kernel, or an older version of FF? Faster than memtest. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 18:07 -0400, Gerry Reno wrote: On 03/22/2012 06:02 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: Haven't been having any other problems with other apps but I'll look at running memtest. Here are some particulars: kernel-PAE-3.2.10-3.fc16.i686 firefox-11.0-1.fc16.i686 What happens if you regress to an older kernel, or an older version of FF? Faster than memtest. Chris Murphy Chris, already ran the memtest: no errors. I wish I had an older kernel to test. 3.2.10 is the only one listed under /boot. You can download older kernels from Koji. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:07 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: On 03/22/2012 06:02 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:20 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: Haven't been having any other problems with other apps but I'll look at running memtest. Here are some particulars: kernel-PAE-3.2.10-3.fc16.i686 firefox-11.0-1.fc16.i686 What happens if you regress to an older kernel, or an older version of FF? Faster than memtest. Chris Murphy Chris, already ran the memtest: no errors. Let it run overnight once you're done for the day. I've been surprised reading on btrfs list how many corruptions have involved due to bad RAM corruption, don't show up in even an hour's testing. Try the F16LiveCD. If that fails, try the F17betaTC2 Live CD. If that fails, I'd suspect hardware of some sort and let memtest run overnight. If LiveCD works, you could skip the memtest, and then work on narrowing down what's causing the problem. Could be disk corruption... I have had several experiences with SDC myself. One I'm absolutely certain was disk SDC, and in the other two cases, strongly suspect. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements
On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 01:11:27PM -0500, Dennis Gilmore wrote: I have spoken with the OpenSUSE guys they dont use qemu-system-arm but rather qemu-arm and lay out things and build using a hybrid environment thats also how they build ppc s390 and other arches. the only build hardware they have is x86. doing full system emulation will be slower. In case it's not clear to the peanut gallery, qemu-system-arm and qemu-arm work in different ways. qemu-system-arm emulates a complete machine, so your ARM kernel is also running and being emulated. qemu-arm just emulates the userspace part of the program, but translates system calls from the program and runs them against the regular (x86-64 in this case) kernel. qemu-arm should be a lot faster, since the kernel part is running at full speed. On the other hand, there's some start-up overhead for every process run this way. I should also say that in both cases qemu's TCG emulation is reasonably smart, and recompiles guest ARM code on the fly down to native (x86-64 in this case) code. Recommended reading: http://lugatgt.org/content/qemu_internals/downloads/slides.pdf Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones New in Fedora 11: Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows programs, test, and build Windows installers. Over 70 libraries supprt'd http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW http://www.annexia.org/fedora_mingw -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Updated Fedora ARM qemu images?
On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 02:02:26PM -0600, Orion Poplawski wrote: On 03/22/2012 01:30 PM, Brendan Conoboy wrote: On 03/22/2012 11:10 AM, Orion Poplawski wrote: I started looking at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/HowToQemu VM starts okay in F16 with setsebool -P virt_use_execmem=on But the image is a Fedora 12 system. Any updated images out there? You should be able to use the F17 alpha 1 image. The pointer is it: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM We'll have the document updated for this soon. I've set reply-to to the arm list since the responsible parties are all there. Sorry, still very green with vm wrangling. How do I take the rootfs tarball and make a qemu image I can use with libvirt? I've not actually tried it for this situation, but virt-make-fs can turn a tarball into a disk image. http://libguestfs.org/virt-make-fs.1.html Probably something like this: virt-make-fs -s 1G -t ext3 -F raw --partition=mbr rootfs.tar disk.img Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones libguestfs lets you edit virtual machines. Supports shell scripting, bindings from many languages. http://libguestfs.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: Just odd that Firefox is the only app causing the problem. I'll let memtest run a while. Yeah different apps have different memory requirements so it just may be doing something a little different than other apps. Plus it's kindof a princess porker when it comes to memory compared to most apps I use regularly. And I just updated to the new kernel, 3.3.0, so I'll try that out as well to see if it has any effect on this FF issue. LiveCD is slow but it regresses you on multiple fronts all in one whack, including kernel. Chris Murphy -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: ARM as a primary architecture
On 03/22/2012 05:04 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: I tried using a laptop and no desktop for a year and switched _back_ to a desktop, I found the faff involved in switching between the two setups too much of a pain. I'm sure I'm not unique either. =) Me too. Oops. I bet I'm not supposed to send mails like this. -- Garry Williams -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 16 and Firefox 11 crashing hard
On 03/22/2012 07:44 PM, Chris Murphy wrote: On Mar 22, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Gerry Reno wrote: Just odd that Firefox is the only app causing the problem. I'll let memtest run a while. Yeah different apps have different memory requirements so it just may be doing something a little different than other apps. Plus it's kindof a princess porker when it comes to memory compared to most apps I use regularly. And I just updated to the new kernel, 3.3.0, so I'll try that out as well to see if it has any effect on this FF issue. LiveCD is slow but it regresses you on multiple fronts all in one whack, including kernel. Chris Murphy I may have found something. I started trying to keep track of what pages were causing the crashes in Firefox. All of them were on some secure pages. So I played around with the encryption settings and when I disabled TLS the crashes stopped. At least so far. I haven't had a crash in a couple hours now. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
