Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 04:54:24PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Mon, 2018-05-28 at 14:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 10:42 +0200, Michal Novotny wrote: > > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > > > > > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > > > > > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > > > > > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > > > > > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > > > > > distributed?". > > > > > > > > > > > > > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short > > > > for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary > > > > store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. > > > > > > > > > > Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! > > > > > > I've changed it in the README. > > > > ref: https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git > > > > "DistGit (Distribution Git) is..." > > Sorry, pardon the inadvertent thread necro, good old "forgot was > browsing the list with a filter applied"... Hmm, why do people consider this a problem? People apologize for resurrecting a thread on occasion, I never understood why. I see two possibilities: if I deleted the old messages, reusing the thread has no effect for me except a Reply-to which I don't see, and a "Re:" in the subject. If I still have the old messages, I don't need to look for context in case I need it. The first scenario is a meh, the second is a win. Zbyszek ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/S7PFWCPME4XHOOOXC3TTEM3HPCWEKIOZ/
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Mon, 2018-05-28 at 14:59 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 10:42 +0200, Michal Novotny wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > > > > > > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > > > > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > > > > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > > > > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > > > > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > > > > distributed?". > > > > > > > > > > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short > > > for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary > > > store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. > > > > > > > Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! > > > > I've changed it in the README. > > ref: https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git > > "DistGit (Distribution Git) is..." Sorry, pardon the inadvertent thread necro, good old "forgot was browsing the list with a filter applied"... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/RKIUXP23ORE25HEALSC27R7CFIGTJM7U/
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sun, 2018-03-25 at 10:42 +0200, Michal Novotny wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > > > > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > > > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > > > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > > > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > > > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > > > distributed?". > > > > > > > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short > > for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary > > store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. > > > > Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! > > I've changed it in the README. ref: https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git "DistGit (Distribution Git) is..." -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/OUV3HEYNN6KUYE74YU6MZ3Z3R6YH7BZJ/
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git/commit/6502c87ebdf58661e8ff96fe4a3212b5991f8a44 >I agree that using "Fedora Package Source Repository" >instead of just "Fedora DistGit" is clearer (but also longer >so I, personally, like your Glossary suggestion the best). I think it depends on who the audience is... signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 7:29 PM, Christopher wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 4:43 AM Michal Novotny wrote: > >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The >>> > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional >>> > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically >>> > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage >>> > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ >>> > distributed?". >>> > >>> >>> I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short >>> for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary >>> store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. >>> >> >> Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! >> >> I've changed it in the README. >> >> > > Which README? Where is it located? > Here: https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git I agree that using "Fedora Package Source Repository" instead of just "Fedora DistGit" is clearer (but also longer so I, personally, like your Glossary suggestion the best). > > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 4:43 AM Michal Novotny wrote: > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > >> On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: >> > >> > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The >> > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional >> > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically >> > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage >> > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ >> > distributed?". >> > >> >> I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short >> for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary >> store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. >> > > Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! > > I've changed it in the README. > > Which README? Where is it located? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > > distributed?". > > > > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short > for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary > store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. > > Unlike VCSes like CVS and SVN, Git does not handle binaries very well, > and so they needed to be moved out of the VCS into an external store. > This was the first attempt at it, and it works, though no one else > ever adopted it due to some of the clunkiness with it (the undefined > sources file format, inability to cleanly define where the sources are > actually stored, etc.). > > Those issues could probably be solved today, but I don't think anyone > really cares to fix that in a way where Dist-Git would integrate more > cleanly into Git itself. > Oh, I actually care about it. > > > -- > 真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth! > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Neal Gompa wrote: > On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > > distributed?". > > > > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short > for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary > store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. > Ha, okay, actually, "distribution Git" makes more sense. Thank you! I've changed it in the README. clime > > Unlike VCSes like CVS and SVN, Git does not handle binaries very well, > and so they needed to be moved out of the VCS into an external store. > This was the first attempt at it, and it works, though no one else > ever adopted it due to some of the clunkiness with it (the undefined > sources file format, inability to cleanly define where the sources are > actually stored, etc.). > > Those issues could probably be solved today, but I don't think anyone > really cares to fix that in a way where Dist-Git would integrate more > cleanly into Git itself. > > > -- > 真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth! > ___ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 8:17 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote: > Neal Gompa wrote: >> Unlike VCSes like CVS and SVN, Git does not handle binaries very well, >> and so they needed to be moved out of the VCS into an external store. > > Actually, the external lookaside cache was already used in Fedora in the CVS > days. > Heh. Well, it has been over ten years. I don't remember these things anymore. :) -- 真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
Neal Gompa wrote: > Unlike VCSes like CVS and SVN, Git does not handle binaries very well, > and so they needed to be moved out of the VCS into an external store. Actually, the external lookaside cache was already used in Fedora in the CVS days. Kevin Kofler ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Ben Rosser wrote: > > Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The > first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional > data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically > just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage > somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ > distributed?". > I might be misremembering, but I think Dist-Git was originally short for "Distribution Git". It was the first attempt to marry a binary store to Git, predating git-annex and Git LFS by several years. Unlike VCSes like CVS and SVN, Git does not handle binaries very well, and so they needed to be moved out of the VCS into an external store. This was the first attempt at it, and it works, though no one else ever adopted it due to some of the clunkiness with it (the undefined sources file format, inability to cleanly define where the sources are actually stored, etc.). Those issues could probably be solved today, but I don't think anyone really cares to fix that in a way where Dist-Git would integrate more cleanly into Git itself. -- 真実はいつも一つ!/ Always, there's only one truth! ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 4:53 PM, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > Dne 24.3.2018 v 06:59 Christopher napsal(a): >> Can we stop saying "dist-git" in our docs? Nobody knows what that is. >> The service at https://src.fedoraproject.org is clearly branded as "Fedora >> Package Sources". > > BTW dist-git is (for some time) documented quite well: > https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git > > And AFAIK the Pagure is frontend to "just" that git part. It does not handle > lookaside cache at all. I think that's kind of Christopher's point. We use "dist-git" pervasively to refer to our package repositories, but from a packager's perspective they are more or less just normal git repositories. I can interact with them using normal git commands. The only thing that makes these "dist-git" repositories special is the existence of the lookaside cache, but I don't know that this is enough to motivate using an entirely separate term to describe the repositories. Looking at the dist-git README further reinforces this impression. The first sentence says: "DistGit (Distributed Git) is Git with additional data storage". My initial reaction to that is "so, it is basically just git". My second reaction is "why does additional data storage somehow make git (a distributed version control system) even _more_ distributed?". The rest of the README goes onto describe technical details about dist-git and then includes a "user's guide", which is helpful... if you are a user trying to set up infrastructure. It's not very relevant to a packager trying to learn their way around things. Ben Rosser ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
Dne 24.3.2018 v 06:59 Christopher napsal(a): > Can we stop saying "dist-git" in our docs? Nobody knows what that is. > The service at https://src.fedoraproject.org is clearly branded as "Fedora > Package Sources". BTW dist-git is (for some time) documented quite well: https://github.com/release-engineering/dist-git And AFAIK the Pagure is frontend to "just" that git part. It does not handle lookaside cache at all. Though, I understand the confusion. Miroslav ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On 03/24/2018 01:59 AM, Christopher wrote: > If this seems reasonable, I'd be happy to help start editing some of the > wiki pages... but it'd be helpful if everybody maintaining > infrastructure documentation was on the same page. +1 from me. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Re: Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 05:59:38AM +, Christopher wrote: > Can we stop saying "dist-git" in our docs? Nobody knows what that is. > The service at https://src.fedoraproject.org is clearly branded as "Fedora > Package Sources". > > Using the jargon "dist-git" in our documentation is simply confusing, since > it doesn't match what the service calls itself, and doesn't match any user > interface packagers use. As far as I can tell, only people with a deep > understanding of Fedora's infrastructure (which does not seem to be most > packagers) know what this term means. > > For example, in > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WhatHappenedToPkgdb , instead > of saying "Browse to your project on Pagure over Dist-Git (Top Level > link)", we should say: "Browse to your project's Package Source repository > at https://src.fedoraproject.org"; > > And, instead of saying "How do I request commit access to a dist-git > repo?", we should say: "How do I request commit access to a Package Source > repository?" > > Using special/internal/historical jargon, especially when that jargon > doesn't correspond to the current packager experience when interacting with > these services, only leads to confusion and should be avoided. +1 to doing the change. This is especially important for people who need the docs the most — newcomers. Zbyszek > If we really need to use the term "dist-git" in the wiki, it should at > least link to a glossary page that says "Dist-Git: A term which refers to > the Fedora Package Sources repository hosting service at > https://src.fedoraproject.org built on Pagure (an open source git > repository management service)", instead of just assuming everybody seeing > the term "dist-git" knows what that term is and where it came from. > > If we can avoid jargon with this term and other similar terms, it'd be a > big help to our documentation. > > If this seems reasonable, I'd be happy to help start editing some of the > wiki pages... but it'd be helpful if everybody maintaining infrastructure > documentation was on the same page. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
Avoiding Jargon: dist-git
Can we stop saying "dist-git" in our docs? Nobody knows what that is. The service at https://src.fedoraproject.org is clearly branded as "Fedora Package Sources". Using the jargon "dist-git" in our documentation is simply confusing, since it doesn't match what the service calls itself, and doesn't match any user interface packagers use. As far as I can tell, only people with a deep understanding of Fedora's infrastructure (which does not seem to be most packagers) know what this term means. For example, in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/WhatHappenedToPkgdb , instead of saying "Browse to your project on Pagure over Dist-Git (Top Level link)", we should say: "Browse to your project's Package Source repository at https://src.fedoraproject.org"; And, instead of saying "How do I request commit access to a dist-git repo?", we should say: "How do I request commit access to a Package Source repository?" Using special/internal/historical jargon, especially when that jargon doesn't correspond to the current packager experience when interacting with these services, only leads to confusion and should be avoided. If we really need to use the term "dist-git" in the wiki, it should at least link to a glossary page that says "Dist-Git: A term which refers to the Fedora Package Sources repository hosting service at https://src.fedoraproject.org built on Pagure (an open source git repository management service)", instead of just assuming everybody seeing the term "dist-git" knows what that term is and where it came from. If we can avoid jargon with this term and other similar terms, it'd be a big help to our documentation. If this seems reasonable, I'd be happy to help start editing some of the wiki pages... but it'd be helpful if everybody maintaining infrastructure documentation was on the same page. Thanks, Christopher ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org