Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
One of the biggest offenders (Eclipse) is now happily compiling(always has been running fine) with Java 8 and while looking at fixing it many other issues has been identified and fixed so personally I'm fine with OpenJDK7 being obsoleted now. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com To: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com, Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:41:30 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 I'm not proposing having OpenJDK7 in Fedora 21. What I'm asking for is to have them both for a month or two before obsoleting so transition can be smoother if problems appear. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:31:59 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
is this version of eclipse be ported to rhel dev tools for rhel-6 and rhel-7? On 05/06/2014 09:50 AM, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote: One of the biggest offenders (Eclipse) is now happily compiling(always has been running fine) with Java 8 and while looking at fixing it many other issues has been identified and fixed so personally I'm fine with OpenJDK7 being obsoleted now. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com To: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com, Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:41:30 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 I'm not proposing having OpenJDK7 in Fedora 21. What I'm asking for is to have them both for a month or two before obsoleting so transition can be smoother if problems appear. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:31:59 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Levente Si vis pacem para bellum! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
- Original Message - From: Farkas Levente lfar...@lfarkas.org To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, May 6, 2014 11:23:18 AM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 is this version of eclipse be ported to rhel dev tools for rhel-6 and rhel-7? As you probably have guessed I can not answer such questions. You can either speak to your TAM or wait for public announcements. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team On 05/06/2014 09:50 AM, Aleksandar Kurtakov wrote: One of the biggest offenders (Eclipse) is now happily compiling(always has been running fine) with Java 8 and while looking at fixing it many other issues has been identified and fixed so personally I'm fine with OpenJDK7 being obsoleted now. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com To: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com, Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:41:30 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 I'm not proposing having OpenJDK7 in Fedora 21. What I'm asking for is to have them both for a month or two before obsoleting so transition can be smoother if problems appear. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:31:59 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Levente Si vis pacem para bellum! -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
Hi, * Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.com [2014-03-26 11:55]: I would say that there needs to be something a bit larger than a rebuild but a mass test so that you end up with finding out that someone's hack to make java-7 do something neat isn't java-8 runtime saying 'crash'. What about holding a Test Day [1] for this? Do you have anything else in mind? Thanks, Omair [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Test_Days -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 07:59:13PM -0400, Christopher wrote: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. This sounds like a situation where a Software Collection might be useful. -- Matthew Miller-- Fedora Project--mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
* Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 03/25/2014 06:45 PM, Omair Majid wrote: * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:41]: On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. Should I update the proposal to clarify that a mass rebuild is required, then? I don't think that a mass rebuild is *required* for this feature. Packages built with Java 7 should still work with Java 8. What I said is that it may be nice to do scratch builds of some packages because they may start failing to build with Java 8. Some of our CI efforts already caught a few FTBFS caused by switching to Java 8, for example hadoop[1] or maven-doxia[2]. The earlier we do the scratch builds the more time we'll have to fix any failures before system-wide mass rebuild comes. [1] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/bigdata/2014-March/000391.html [2] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=6674018 -- Mikolaj Izdebski -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
I'm not proposing having OpenJDK7 in Fedora 21. What I'm asking for is to have them both for a month or two before obsoleting so transition can be smoother if problems appear. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:31:59 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 03/25/2014 08:07 PM, Omair Majid wrote: * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thank you for making OpenJDK 8 default Java in rawhide. Blocking Java 7 would make things a bit easier, but it is not absolutely required. I agree with others that keeping it for a (short) while is probably a good thing. -- Mikolaj Izdebski -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
* Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com [2014-03-26 09:41]: I'm not proposing having OpenJDK7 in Fedora 21. What I'm asking for is to have them both for a month or two before obsoleting so transition can be smoother if problems appear. Ah okay, fair enough. I don't think that should be an issue; although we will have to make it so that OpenJDK7 does not provide java/java-devel so that it no longer gets pulled in by default when building. Is that OK? Deepak Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 3:31:59 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 26 March 2014 07:41, Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/25/2014 06:45 PM, Omair Majid wrote: * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:41]: On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. Should I update the proposal to clarify that a mass rebuild is required, then? I don't think that a mass rebuild is *required* for this feature. Packages built with Java 7 should still work with Java 8. Well having to deal with quite a few embedded hardware devices with java console apps which work in JDK 7 for FC19 but not JDK7 for FC20... one should never ever assume that some other programmer hasn't found a way to break Java's compatibility. I would say that there needs to be something a bit larger than a rebuild but a mass test so that you end up with finding out that someone's hack to make java-7 do something neat isn't java-8 runtime saying 'crash'. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com wrote: * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html I don't see how Oracle tentatively dropping long-term public support for 7 means that Fedora needs can no longer provide OpenJDK7 in its repos (not as default, of course), with or without additional updates, for developers who want to use a modern Fedora, but need to develop for applications/hardware that requires strict 7 compatibility. The alternative is Fedora fans will be forced to use an older version of Fedora, use a different Linux distro, or find some hackish workaround (yum --releasever=20 ...; which is problematic, because every version 8 update will obsolete 7, just like 7 currently does with 6 packages), or download untrusted 3rd party packages. It seems to me that support in Fedora would be pretty easy: just make sure it doesn't cause a packaging conflict and recommend the newer JDK8. Maybe call it -compat? But, I defer to the experts on Fedora packaging/support policies and decisions. I'm just a user, and don't know all the implications for trying to include it. I just think it'd be nice to keep around. Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 26 March 2014 10:29, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com wrote: * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html I don't see how Oracle tentatively dropping long-term public support for 7 means that Fedora needs can no longer provide OpenJDK7 in its repos (not as default, of course), with or without additional updates, for developers who want to use a modern Fedora, but need to develop for applications/hardware that requires strict 7 compatibility. The problem is that some organization needs to come up and say they are going to do security support for JDK7 after it is EOL from Oracle. It is not like Java has a stellar security history where it can sit out for a long time without someone putting in fixes. If such a group does come forward then some sort of compat could be handled. Otherwise it is going to be a large liability for any distribution to bundle the code. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
- Original Message - From: Christopher ctubb...@apache.org To: Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com, Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 6:29:55 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com wrote: * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html I don't see how Oracle tentatively dropping long-term public support for 7 means that Fedora needs can no longer provide OpenJDK7 in its repos (not as default, of course), with or without additional updates, for developers who want to use a modern Fedora, but need to develop for applications/hardware that requires strict 7 compatibility. The alternative is Fedora fans will be forced to use an older version of Fedora, use a different Linux distro, or find some hackish workaround (yum --releasever=20 ...; which is problematic, because every version 8 update will obsolete 7, just like 7 currently does with 6 packages), or download untrusted 3rd party packages. It seems to me that support in Fedora would be pretty easy: just make sure it doesn't cause a packaging conflict and recommend the newer JDK8. Maybe call it -compat? But, I defer to the experts on Fedora packaging/support policies and decisions. I'm just a user, and don't know all the implications for trying to include it. I just think it'd be nice to keep around. It's not that easy and simple. Most Java developer don't bother setting their target classfile format in their build scripts, resulting in new builds using new bytecode thus not usable on Java 7 at all, resulting in Java 7 not being usable for pretty much anything in Fedora repository. This might sound like a simple task to do but if you multiply it by few hundred packages have to be audited and all the complications coming from the variety of build systems it becomes a huge investment of time to have Java 8 as default and keep compat with Java 7. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team Deepak -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Wed 26 Mar 2014 05:29:55 PM CET Christopher wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com wrote: * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html I don't see how Oracle tentatively dropping long-term public support for 7 means that Fedora needs can no longer provide OpenJDK7 in its repos (not as default, of course), with or without additional updates, for developers who want to use a modern Fedora, but need to develop for applications/hardware that requires strict 7 compatibility. The alternative is Fedora fans will be forced to use an older version of Fedora, use a different Linux distro, or find some hackish workaround (yum --releasever=20 ...; which is problematic, because every version 8 update will obsolete 7, just like 7 currently does with 6 packages), or download untrusted 3rd party packages. It seems to me that support in Fedora would be pretty easy: just make sure it doesn't cause a packaging conflict and recommend the newer JDK8. Maybe call it -compat? But, I defer to the experts on Fedora packaging/support policies and decisions. I'm just a user, and don't know all the implications for trying to include it. I just think it'd be nice to keep around. It's not a question if we can have multiple parallel JDKs (we already can, you can install 7 and 8 at the same time). What we *can't* have in Fedora is a high-profile package which doesn't receive security updates upstream and there is nobody in Fedora willing and capable of doing that. What's the big deal with using '--target 1.7' anyway? That covers 99% of use cases, and any possible problems will have to be caught by CI running whatever you'd be deploying on anyway. -- Stanislav Ochotnicky sochotni...@redhat.com Software Engineer - Developer Experience PGP: 7B087241 Red Hat Inc. http://cz.redhat.com pgpkSBGT2nF57.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 03/26/2014 05:52 PM, Stanislav Ochotnicky wrote: On Wed 26 Mar 2014 05:29:55 PM CET Christopher wrote: On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:31 AM, Deepak Bhole dbh...@redhat.com wrote: * Christopher ctubb...@apache.org [2014-03-25 19:59]: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. Unfortunately, OpenJDK7 will be EOLd in April 2015[1], which is within the support time-frame of the F21. This is one the reasons why we would like to be able to switch over to OpenJDK8 asap for F21. 1: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html I don't see how Oracle tentatively dropping long-term public support for 7 means that Fedora needs can no longer provide OpenJDK7 in its repos (not as default, of course), with or without additional updates, for developers who want to use a modern Fedora, but need to develop for applications/hardware that requires strict 7 compatibility. The alternative is Fedora fans will be forced to use an older version of Fedora, use a different Linux distro, or find some hackish workaround (yum --releasever=20 ...; which is problematic, because every version 8 update will obsolete 7, just like 7 currently does with 6 packages), or download untrusted 3rd party packages. It seems to me that support in Fedora would be pretty easy: just make sure it doesn't cause a packaging conflict and recommend the newer JDK8. Maybe call it -compat? But, I defer to the experts on Fedora packaging/support policies and decisions. I'm just a user, and don't know all the implications for trying to include it. I just think it'd be nice to keep around. It's not a question if we can have multiple parallel JDKs (we already can, you can install 7 and 8 at the same time). What we *can't* have in Fedora is a high-profile package which doesn't receive security updates upstream and there is nobody in Fedora willing and capable of doing that. What's the big deal with using '--target 1.7' anyway? That covers 99% of use cases, and any possible problems will have to be caught by CI running whatever you'd be deploying on anyway. Even with --target 1.7 you can still use some Java 8 features provided by standard library, which are not available in Java 7. That's the reason tools like animal-sniffer were created. -- Mikolaj Izdebski -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Wed 26 Mar 2014 01:19:52 PM CET Matthew Miller wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 07:59:13PM -0400, Christopher wrote: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. This sounds like a situation where a Software Collection might be useful. Doesn't make sense IMO, JDKs can already live in parallel as they are. That's not to say that SCLs could not be used, but traditionally we have different solution and migrating to SCLs would likely bring its own set of problems. Actually as far as runtime is concerned, JDK is one of the most backward-compat tested software on Earth (most likely). The only applications that break are the ones that use internal implementation details or some *really* weird approaches. For building, you can still generate code for older JVMs with JDK8. Of course those JVMs will likely not be able to run at least part of our Java stack but that's another thing... If Atlassian suite breaks: it's most likely their bug. -- Stanislav Ochotnicky sochotni...@redhat.com Software Engineer - Developer Experience PGP: 7B087241 Red Hat Inc. http://cz.redhat.com pgpRreTU1USjl.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
* Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:41]: On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. Should I update the proposal to clarify that a mass rebuild is required, then? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
* Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. -- Christopher L Tubbs II http://gravatar.com/ctubbsii On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Aleksandar Kurtakov akurt...@redhat.com wrote: Please keep java 1.7.0 around for some time. It would make moving easier if we have to jump back for a build or two. Alexander Kurtakov Red Hat Eclipse team - Original Message - From: Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com To: Development discussions related to Fedora devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:07:39 PM Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8 * Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com [2014-03-24 11:55]: That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. I have started a new java-1.8.0-openjdk build that should fix this: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=506921 Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Is there anything I can/should do here? Shall I file a rel-eng ticket to block java-1.7.0-openjdk? Would it be worth waiting a little while to ensure that there are no show-stopper bugs in java-1.8.0-openjdk? Thanks, Omair -- PGP Key: 66484681 (http://pgp.mit.edu/) Fingerprint = F072 555B 0A17 3957 4E95 0056 F286 F14F 6648 4681 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Christopher ctubb...@apache.org wrote: I also would like to see 1.7.0 stick around for awhile. Not necessarily as the default, but at least available in the repos. As it stands, it's difficult to use a modern Fedora on projects that are still developing against JDK 1.6. +1. There's a lot of stuff that simply won't work with 1.8 yet - most of the Atlassian suite for a start. -- Rob K http://ningaui.net I swear, if I collected all seven dragonballs, I'd bring back Jon Postel. - Raph -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. To do a rebuild in Koji Java 8 must land in there first. That can could be a separate tag, but rel-eng is quite reluctant to provide them. Copr could be a better place to do the rebuild. One big advantage is that it doesn't use any ARM builders, but on the other hand it has quite limited capacity (AFAIK 10 builders only). Besides that, there is already one approved change [1] which requires rebuilding most of Java packages. We didn't do a mass rebuild for it yet because we wanted to sync with Java 8 rebuild. -- Mikolaj Izdebski [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/HeadlessJava -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On 03/24/2014 04:49 PM, Peter Robinson wrote: On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. To do a rebuild in Koji Java 8 must land in there first. That can could be a separate tag, but rel-eng is quite reluctant to provide them. java 8 is already in the main repos and had been there since F-19. It's just not providing things like java-devel and hence isn't used by default in the build process. That's exactly the problem. We need to use a modified version of java-1.8.0-openjdk with extra provides and adjusted priorities for alternatives. Blocking java-1.7.0-oepnjdk may also be required. This makes it impossible to scratch-build Java packages using f21-build target in current state. Copr could be a better place to do the rebuild. One big advantage is that it doesn't use any ARM builders, but on the other hand it has quite limited capacity (AFAIK 10 builders only). That's not an advantage, building ARM packages is a requirement of something in primary architecture. Also you can't tag copr builds in Fedora. You need to use a koji f21 side tag. I was talking talking about doing scratch builds to identify packages failing to build with Java 8. Java 8 change does *not* require mass rebuild in Fedora. Great majority of packages will work with Java 8 with no change. Besides that, there is already one approved change [1] which requires rebuilding most of Java packages. We didn't do a mass rebuild for it yet because we wanted to sync with Java 8 rebuild. Well there will also be a mass rebuild in general for gcc 4.9 so you should coordinate with rel-eng to minimise builds in general. Peter -- Mikolaj Izdebski -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Mikolaj Izdebski mizde...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/22/2014 06:15 AM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Agreed. To do a rebuild in Koji Java 8 must land in there first. That can could be a separate tag, but rel-eng is quite reluctant to provide them. java 8 is already in the main repos and had been there since F-19. It's just not providing things like java-devel and hence isn't used by default in the build process. Copr could be a better place to do the rebuild. One big advantage is that it doesn't use any ARM builders, but on the other hand it has quite limited capacity (AFAIK 10 builders only). That's not an advantage, building ARM packages is a requirement of something in primary architecture. Also you can't tag copr builds in Fedora. You need to use a koji f21 side tag. Besides that, there is already one approved change [1] which requires rebuilding most of Java packages. We didn't do a mass rebuild for it yet because we wanted to sync with Java 8 rebuild. Well there will also be a mass rebuild in general for gcc 4.9 so you should coordinate with rel-eng to minimise builds in general. Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
= Proposed System Wide Change: Java 8 = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java8 Change owner(s): Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com Make Java 8 (provided by OpenJDK 8 which is java-1.8.0-openjdk) the default Java runtime. The current default Java runtime (Java 7, provided by OpenJDK 7, java-1.7.0-openjdk) will be obsoleted and removed. This is essentially an upgrade to the latest Java and OpenJDK version. == Detailed Description == The current default Java 7 runtime in Fedora is OpenJDK 7. The latest version of OpenJDK, 8, was released on 18 March 2014. Given that Fedora 21 will not be released before August, it makes sense to include the latest version of OpenJDK in Fedora 21. OpenJDK 8 is a significant update to Java. It brings in significant new features to the Java language, including lambdas, a new javascript engine and lots of new library features. A complete list of features is available [1]. OpenJDK 8 is a backwards compatible update. Theoretically everything that worked against OpenJDK 7 should continue working against OpenJDK 8. There are a few exceptions: OpenJDK8 is much more strict when it comes to building javadocs. Many - javadoc package in Fedora fail to build. Those that are built should continue working just fine. Packages that rely on non-public OpenJDK API may fail to build/run. A complete list of incompatibilities is available [2]. The incompatibilities are source and behavioral only. It may be a good idea to mass rebuild Java packages against OpenJDK 8 to spot any source incompatibilities earlier. This is not required. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** Deprecate/Obsolete java-1.7.0-openjdk ** Promote java-1.8.0-openjdk to a full java runtime status (fix provides in package) ** In case of a mass rebuild, supply/apply patches to fix build against OpenJDK 8 * Other developers: ** icedtea-web maintainers will need to update icedtea-web to run against OpenJDK 8 ** Other java packagers will need to apply patches to their java package to ensure they can build against OpenJDK 8 ** Everyone will need to test packages to verify that they work against OpenJDK 8 * Release engineering: ** Remove java-1.7.0-openjdk ** Possibly mass-rebuild (?) all Java packages. This is not strictly required to make OpenJDK 8 the default Java runtime. * Policies and guidelines: ** Many -javadoc packages fail to build. The OpenJDK 8 maintainers and the Java SIG are working on identifying a solution. The solution may require [3] guideline changes making -javadoc subpackages optional. [1] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8/features [2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/8-compatibility-guide-2156366.html [3] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-March/196808.html ___ devel-announce mailing list devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:11:44 +0100 Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Proposed System Wide Change: Java 8 = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java8 Change owner(s): Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com Make Java 8 (provided by OpenJDK 8 which is java-1.8.0-openjdk) the default Java runtime. The current default Java runtime (Java 7, provided by OpenJDK 7, java-1.7.0-openjdk) will be obsoleted and removed. are we confident OpenJDK 8 works well on all Fedora arches, not only on the primary ones? Task for myself (or any volunteer) is to check whether https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958232 is still open Dan This is essentially an upgrade to the latest Java and OpenJDK version. == Detailed Description == The current default Java 7 runtime in Fedora is OpenJDK 7. The latest version of OpenJDK, 8, was released on 18 March 2014. Given that Fedora 21 will not be released before August, it makes sense to include the latest version of OpenJDK in Fedora 21. OpenJDK 8 is a significant update to Java. It brings in significant new features to the Java language, including lambdas, a new javascript engine and lots of new library features. A complete list of features is available [1]. OpenJDK 8 is a backwards compatible update. Theoretically everything that worked against OpenJDK 7 should continue working against OpenJDK 8. There are a few exceptions: OpenJDK8 is much more strict when it comes to building javadocs. Many - javadoc package in Fedora fail to build. Those that are built should continue working just fine. Packages that rely on non-public OpenJDK API may fail to build/run. A complete list of incompatibilities is available [2]. The incompatibilities are source and behavioral only. It may be a good idea to mass rebuild Java packages against OpenJDK 8 to spot any source incompatibilities earlier. This is not required. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** Deprecate/Obsolete java-1.7.0-openjdk ** Promote java-1.8.0-openjdk to a full java runtime status (fix provides in package) ** In case of a mass rebuild, supply/apply patches to fix build against OpenJDK 8 * Other developers: ** icedtea-web maintainers will need to update icedtea-web to run against OpenJDK 8 ** Other java packagers will need to apply patches to their java package to ensure they can build against OpenJDK 8 ** Everyone will need to test packages to verify that they work against OpenJDK 8 * Release engineering: ** Remove java-1.7.0-openjdk ** Possibly mass-rebuild (?) all Java packages. This is not strictly required to make OpenJDK 8 the default Java runtime. * Policies and guidelines: ** Many -javadoc packages fail to build. The OpenJDK 8 maintainers and the Java SIG are working on identifying a solution. The solution may require [3] guideline changes making -javadoc subpackages optional. [1] http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk8/features [2] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/8-compatibility-guide-2156366.html [3] https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-March/196808.html ___ devel-announce mailing list devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 13:11:44 +0100, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Proposed System Wide Change: Java 8 = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java8 It may be a good idea to mass rebuild Java packages against OpenJDK 8 to spot any source incompatibilities earlier. This is not required. Is there an easy way to do test builds against 8 now? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
- Original Message - Is there an easy way to do test builds against 8 now? java-1.8.0-openjdk is available in F19 (updates-testing), F20 (updates-testing) and in rawhide. It doesn't provide 'java-devel' (which is what yum uses to find JDKs), so Koji shouldn't use java-1.8.0-openjdk as a dependency. But you can use java-1.8.0-openjdk-devel directly for local or scratch builds. Thanks, Omair -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
- Original Message - From: Dan Horák d...@danny.cz Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: Make Java 8 (provided by OpenJDK 8 which is java-1.8.0-openjdk) the default Java runtime. The current default Java runtime (Java 7, provided by OpenJDK 7, java-1.7.0-openjdk) will be obsoleted and removed. are we confident OpenJDK 8 works well on all Fedora arches, not only on the primary ones? Theoretically, yes. If OpenJDK 7 supports an architecture, OpenJDK 8 should support it about as well (if not better). We may need tweaks and patches to make sure OpenJDK 8 builds correctly everywhere, but that's one of the things we can fix in rawhide in the coming weeks. If you can get me access to machines, I can try building OpenJDK 8 there myself. Thanks, Omair -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Omair Majid oma...@redhat.com wrote: - Original Message - From: Dan Horák d...@danny.cz Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: Make Java 8 (provided by OpenJDK 8 which is java-1.8.0-openjdk) the default Java runtime. The current default Java runtime (Java 7, provided by OpenJDK 7, java-1.7.0-openjdk) will be obsoleted and removed. are we confident OpenJDK 8 works well on all Fedora arches, not only on the primary ones? Theoretically, yes. If OpenJDK 7 supports an architecture, OpenJDK 8 should support it about as well (if not better). We may need tweaks and patches to make sure OpenJDK 8 builds correctly everywhere, but that's one of the things we can fix in rawhide in the coming weeks. If you can get me access to machines, I can try building OpenJDK 8 there myself. thanks, I'll reach you internally with the logon details, we had the problem on 32-bit s390 only which means working in a chroot, so I'll retry first Dan -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: F21 System Wide Change: Java 8
2014-03-21 13:11 GMT+01:00 Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com: = Proposed System Wide Change: Java 8 = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java8 snip == Detailed Description == OpenJDK8 is much more strict when it comes to building javadocs. Many - javadoc package in Fedora fail to build. Those that are built should continue working just fine. (selective quoting) == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** In case of a mass rebuild, supply/apply patches to fix build against OpenJDK 8 * Other developers: ** Other java packagers will need to apply patches to their java package to ensure they can build against OpenJDK 8 ** Everyone will need to test packages to verify that they work against OpenJDK 8 * Release engineering: ** Possibly mass-rebuild (?) all Java packages. This is not strictly required to make OpenJDK 8 the default Java runtime. Given the known large number of failures (OptionalJavadocs says 80% build failure rate without saying that all are JavaDoc-related), we really should do a mass rebuild to identify which packages fail to build *and* to file bugs soonish, instead of waiting for a Fedora-wide mass rebuild and then scrambling to fix dozens/hundreds of build failures in to avoid slipping the schedule. We don't necessarily need an official one, perhaps only in a never-to-be-merged side tag (or even scratch builds?) Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
