Re: F38 proposal: Fedora Sway Spin (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, at 16:27, Major Hayden wrote: >> For those reasons, we propose to create a Sway spin and an ostree one, >> called `Sericea`. > > What made you choose the name? (Just curious.) It's actually named after Terminalia sericea [0] not Cornus sericea. The reasons were: * Terminalia Sericea is a tree. So is ostree. * Terminalia Sericea is also known as silverleaf. Silverleaf was one of the top contenders for the project name of what later became Fedora Silverblue [1]. * If you stare at a Terminalia Sericea for a while, you'll eventually start noticing similarities with the Sway logo Best, Fale [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminalia_sericea [1] https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/faq/#_about_the_project -- Fabio Alessandro "Fale" Locati fale.io ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F38 proposal: Fedora Sway Spin (Self-Contained Change proposal)
Major, On 2022-12-03 02:27, Major Hayden wrote: On 12/1/22 11:35, Ben Cotton wrote: == Detailed Description == Fedora Window Manager spins greatly benefit users who enjoy a minimal desktop. Sway is beginning to become well polished and is continuing to gain traction from the community. Fedora particularly has a first-class Wayland experience making an even more compelling use case for having a Wayland window manager spin. Great idea! I've been on Sway for a few Fedora releases and it's been a pleasure to use. I also like keeping a fairly minimal system and Sway makes that a little easier. +1 For those reasons, we propose to create a Sway spin and an ostree one, called `Sericea`. That _could_ be interesting for me in the future . . What made you choose the name? (Just curious.) I had to go look it up[0]. The goal of both spins would be to create a turnkey environment to enjoy Fedora and Sway functionally and beautifully. To achieve this, we plan to put in those spins the minimum amount of packages to accomplish the stated goal. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]] has begun an [https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/sway/pull-request/12 RFC] for the `sway` source package that would extend it by creating three sub-packages with Fedora's default Sway configuration. Good idea on the splitting. I believe this was done recently for i3, too. +1 == Feedback == Feedback has been low at the moment. We have seen wildly different feedback, from people saying they liked the idea and would use it to others who do not see the value of it and will probably not use it. Some commenters highlighted that this isn't worthwhile for them as they would prefer to have Gnome installed alongside Sway. -1 There have also been comments that some users like having a minimal package set that only includes Sway and don't want a two-step process to get to their environment, which would be the situation if they install a spin that is not Sway and then have to install Sway on top. +1 I've installed Sway several times through the two-step process and although it's not too difficult, it's not easy for new users. This means each user must determine which Sway packages and related extras (perhaps mako, wofi, etc) that they want to add. There's a great opportunity here for people who know a lot about Sway to create an awesome installation experience as well as a good Sway setup after the reboot. +1 Minimal Sway + easy package add for experts . . The two-step process leaves me to make a lot of those decisions and look up which extra applications I need to add. == Benefit to Fedora == Like the introduction of the i3 Spin, this change benefits end-users who run Fedora on a desktop or laptop, particularly low-end consumer-grade hardware. Yes! (for my old Zenbook . .) A Sway Spin would provide a better initial installation experience for Fedora users installing Sway for the first time. Currently, end-users who wish to use Sway on Fedora must install another Edition or Spin of Fedora, then install the Sway window manager (and related packages) separately. Also, at the moment, the process is not documented in Fedora documentation, forcing the user to use an external guide or tutorial. It was only a little annoying but it could be perfect with a Minimal Sway install. Additionally, this "two-step" (first install Fedora, then install Sway on top of it) method adds unnecessary packages to the user's system, Exactly! particularly if the end-user does not wish to use another desktop environment. One of Fedora's foundations is being "First". We believe that, in this situation, being committed to being "First" means pushing the boundaries of Sway and Wayland by shipping the first Fedora Spin that is based on a Wayland-only Window Manager. +2 ! Well said. Thanks for proposing this change. +1 Phil. -- Philip Rhoades PO Box 896 Cowra NSW 2794 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
Re: F38 proposal: Fedora Sway Spin (Self-Contained Change proposal)
On 12/1/22 11:35, Ben Cotton wrote: > == Detailed Description == > Fedora Window Manager spins greatly benefit users who enjoy a minimal > desktop. Sway is beginning to become well polished and is continuing > to gain traction from the community. Fedora particularly has a > first-class Wayland experience making an even more compelling use case > for having a Wayland window manager spin. Great idea! I've been on Sway for a few Fedora releases and it's been a pleasure to use. I also like keeping a fairly minimal system and Sway makes that a little easier. > For those reasons, we propose to create a Sway spin and an ostree one, > called `Sericea`. What made you choose the name? (Just curious.) I had to go look it up[0]. > The goal of both spins would be to create a turnkey environment to > enjoy Fedora and Sway functionally and beautifully. > To achieve this, we plan to put in those spins the minimum amount of > packages to accomplish the stated goal. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei > Bavshin]] has begun an > [https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/sway/pull-request/12 RFC] for the > `sway` source package that would extend it by creating three > sub-packages with Fedora's default Sway configuration. Good idea on the splitting. I believe this was done recently for i3, too. > == Feedback == > Feedback has been low at the moment. > We have seen wildly different feedback, from people saying they liked > the idea and would use it to others who do not see the value of it and > will probably not use it. > Some commenters highlighted that this isn't worthwhile for them as > they would prefer to have Gnome installed alongside Sway. There have > also been comments that some users like having a minimal package set > that only includes Sway and don't want a two-step process to get to > their environment, which would be the situation if they install a spin > that is not Sway and then have to install Sway on top. I've installed Sway several times through the two-step process and although it's not too difficult, it's not easy for new users. This means each user must determine which Sway packages and related extras (perhaps mako, wofi, etc) that they want to add. There's a great opportunity here for people who know a lot about Sway to create an awesome installation experience as well as a good Sway setup after the reboot. The two-step process leaves me to make a lot of those decisions and look up which extra applications I need to add. > == Benefit to Fedora == > > Like the introduction of the i3 Spin, this change benefits end-users > who run Fedora on a desktop or laptop, particularly low-end > consumer-grade hardware. > > A Sway Spin would provide a better initial installation experience for > Fedora users installing Sway for the first time. Currently, end-users > who wish to use Sway on Fedora must install another Edition or Spin of > Fedora, then install the Sway window manager (and related packages) > separately. Also, at the moment, the process is not documented in > Fedora documentation, forcing the user to use an external guide or > tutorial. > > Additionally, this "two-step" (first install Fedora, then install Sway > on top of it) method adds unnecessary packages to the user's system, > particularly if the end-user does not wish to use another desktop > environment. One of Fedora's foundations is being "First". > We believe that, in this situation, being committed to being "First" > means pushing the boundaries of Sway and Wayland by shipping the first > Fedora Spin that is based on a Wayland-only Window Manager. Well said. Thanks for proposing this change. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornus_sericea -- Major Hayden ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
F38 proposal: Fedora Sway Spin (Self-Contained Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora_Sway_Spin This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. == Summary == NOTE: This is still in a draft state while it's being discussed with the Sway SIG team. Create an official Fedora Spin shipping the up-and-coming Sway window manager. Following the footsteps of the recently shipped [https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/i3/ i3 spin]. == Owner == * Name: [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]], [[User:anthr76| Anthony Rabbito]], [[User:jkonecny| Jiří (Jirka) Konečný]], [[User:Fale|Fabio Alessandro Locati]] as well as the rest of the sway-sig ** Primary contact person: [[User:Fale|Fabio Alessandro Locati]] * Email: f...@fedoraproject.org == Detailed Description == Fedora Window Manager spins greatly benefit users who enjoy a minimal desktop. Sway is beginning to become well polished and is continuing to gain traction from the community. Fedora particularly has a first-class Wayland experience making an even more compelling use case for having a Wayland window manager spin. For those reasons, we propose to create a Sway spin and an ostree one, called `Sericea`. The goal of both spins would be to create a turnkey environment to enjoy Fedora and Sway functionally and beautifully. To achieve this, we plan to put in those spins the minimum amount of packages to accomplish the stated goal. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]] has begun an [https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/sway/pull-request/12 RFC] for the `sway` source package that would extend it by creating three sub-packages with Fedora's default Sway configuration. == Feedback == Feedback has been low at the moment. We have seen wildly different feedback, from people saying they liked the idea and would use it to others who do not see the value of it and will probably not use it. Some commenters highlighted that this isn't worthwhile for them as they would prefer to have Gnome installed alongside Sway. There have also been comments that some users like having a minimal package set that only includes Sway and don't want a two-step process to get to their environment, which would be the situation if they install a spin that is not Sway and then have to install Sway on top. == Benefit to Fedora == Like the introduction of the i3 Spin, this change benefits end-users who run Fedora on a desktop or laptop, particularly low-end consumer-grade hardware. A Sway Spin would provide a better initial installation experience for Fedora users installing Sway for the first time. Currently, end-users who wish to use Sway on Fedora must install another Edition or Spin of Fedora, then install the Sway window manager (and related packages) separately. Also, at the moment, the process is not documented in Fedora documentation, forcing the user to use an external guide or tutorial. Additionally, this "two-step" (first install Fedora, then install Sway on top of it) method adds unnecessary packages to the user's system, particularly if the end-user does not wish to use another desktop environment. One of Fedora's foundations is being "First". We believe that, in this situation, being committed to being "First" means pushing the boundaries of Sway and Wayland by shipping the first Fedora Spin that is based on a Wayland-only Window Manager. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** '''kickstart composition'''. Owner TBA ** '''workstation-ostree-config'''. Create a 'tree-file' for Fedora ostree vairents. - [[User:anthr76| Anthony Rabbito]] ** '''Work with RelEng to build'''. Work with Release Engineering to pick up the Sway Spin in regular composes. ** '''Test Day coordination'''. Work with the Fedora QA team to plan and run a series of Test Days to solicit early feedback. ** '''fedora-sway-configs'''. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]] * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11152 Requested] * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Trademark approval: [https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/424 Requested] == Upgrade/compatibility impact == Since the Fedora Sway Spin is a Spin, it assumes new installations only. There is no upgrade/compatibility impact from the Spin. ostree installations will be able to seamlessly rebase to `sericea` in the same way they would with any other ostree variant. == How To Test == Proper Fedora Sway Spin: 1. Boot the Fedora Sway Spin ISO image either on bare-metal or in a virtual machine (V.M.). 2. Confirm successful boot into a configured Sway environment with basic packages available. 3. Launch Anaconda installer. The Anaconda installer can be launched either from a terminal (executable by pressing Windows+Enter) or via the application launcher `rofi-wayland` (executable by pressing Windows+d). 4. Confirm no
F38 proposal: Fedora Sway Spin (Self-Contained Change proposal)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Fedora_Sway_Spin This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. == Summary == NOTE: This is still in a draft state while it's being discussed with the Sway SIG team. Create an official Fedora Spin shipping the up-and-coming Sway window manager. Following the footsteps of the recently shipped [https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/i3/ i3 spin]. == Owner == * Name: [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]], [[User:anthr76| Anthony Rabbito]], [[User:jkonecny| Jiří (Jirka) Konečný]], [[User:Fale|Fabio Alessandro Locati]] as well as the rest of the sway-sig ** Primary contact person: [[User:Fale|Fabio Alessandro Locati]] * Email: f...@fedoraproject.org == Detailed Description == Fedora Window Manager spins greatly benefit users who enjoy a minimal desktop. Sway is beginning to become well polished and is continuing to gain traction from the community. Fedora particularly has a first-class Wayland experience making an even more compelling use case for having a Wayland window manager spin. For those reasons, we propose to create a Sway spin and an ostree one, called `Sericea`. The goal of both spins would be to create a turnkey environment to enjoy Fedora and Sway functionally and beautifully. To achieve this, we plan to put in those spins the minimum amount of packages to accomplish the stated goal. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]] has begun an [https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/sway/pull-request/12 RFC] for the `sway` source package that would extend it by creating three sub-packages with Fedora's default Sway configuration. == Feedback == Feedback has been low at the moment. We have seen wildly different feedback, from people saying they liked the idea and would use it to others who do not see the value of it and will probably not use it. Some commenters highlighted that this isn't worthwhile for them as they would prefer to have Gnome installed alongside Sway. There have also been comments that some users like having a minimal package set that only includes Sway and don't want a two-step process to get to their environment, which would be the situation if they install a spin that is not Sway and then have to install Sway on top. == Benefit to Fedora == Like the introduction of the i3 Spin, this change benefits end-users who run Fedora on a desktop or laptop, particularly low-end consumer-grade hardware. A Sway Spin would provide a better initial installation experience for Fedora users installing Sway for the first time. Currently, end-users who wish to use Sway on Fedora must install another Edition or Spin of Fedora, then install the Sway window manager (and related packages) separately. Also, at the moment, the process is not documented in Fedora documentation, forcing the user to use an external guide or tutorial. Additionally, this "two-step" (first install Fedora, then install Sway on top of it) method adds unnecessary packages to the user's system, particularly if the end-user does not wish to use another desktop environment. One of Fedora's foundations is being "First". We believe that, in this situation, being committed to being "First" means pushing the boundaries of Sway and Wayland by shipping the first Fedora Spin that is based on a Wayland-only Window Manager. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** '''kickstart composition'''. Owner TBA ** '''workstation-ostree-config'''. Create a 'tree-file' for Fedora ostree vairents. - [[User:anthr76| Anthony Rabbito]] ** '''Work with RelEng to build'''. Work with Release Engineering to pick up the Sway Spin in regular composes. ** '''Test Day coordination'''. Work with the Fedora QA team to plan and run a series of Test Days to solicit early feedback. ** '''fedora-sway-configs'''. [[User:alebastr| Aleksei Bavshin]] * Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11152 Requested] * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) * Trademark approval: [https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/tickets/issue/424 Requested] == Upgrade/compatibility impact == Since the Fedora Sway Spin is a Spin, it assumes new installations only. There is no upgrade/compatibility impact from the Spin. ostree installations will be able to seamlessly rebase to `sericea` in the same way they would with any other ostree variant. == How To Test == Proper Fedora Sway Spin: 1. Boot the Fedora Sway Spin ISO image either on bare-metal or in a virtual machine (V.M.). 2. Confirm successful boot into a configured Sway environment with basic packages available. 3. Launch Anaconda installer. The Anaconda installer can be launched either from a terminal (executable by pressing Windows+Enter) or via the application launcher `rofi-wayland` (executable by pressing Windows+d). 4. Confirm no
