Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
- Original Message - Kaleb Keithley (kkeit...@redhat.com) said: Friday is a normal work day for most people (although some people will take it off to get a longer weekend :)) You know it's a Red Hat paid holiday, right? Sure, but even among those who may have the day off, I suspect they're more likely be able to make a short meeting on Friday than Thursday. Well, what options do we have (and combinations)... * Use today's blocker bug meeting as a some form of pre-Go/No-Go, so if anyone is interested in making Go on Thursday, please come. I don't see invitation now, but 17:00 UTC - a few bugs are waiting for official blockery ack. But don't expect Go/No-Go today - fedup needs more testing, test matrices filling etc. * Move the meeting a few hours back, to avoid conflict with the main event of the day. -3 hours would mean 12pm Eastern/9am Pacific but as I'm not familiar with Thanksgivings, not sure it will help. Sorry for that looks-like-ignorance :( * Do early Friday one, try to release on Tuesday, if not distributed to the top mirrors, do official Thursday release. More in case we would be really sure to be ready for this week - we would see more today. But it seems a lot of people would be away on Friday too. F18 release cycle is really crazy, we already did a lot of not very nice moves to be as flexible as possible (and looking on final blocker bugs list we will need it). Jaroslav Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 09:25 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:24:12AM -0500, Dave Jones wrote: The rest of this week is basically a write-off. Trying to do anything this week that needs input from US stakeholders seems optimistic at best. Then this whole week is likely to be very hard to get the release finished. Devil's Advocate: When deciding to slip again, we could have decided to slip until evaluating for release could be done after this week. Or we could have figured out which specific things were necessary to complete before asserting we can Go and whether the specific stakeholders who could validate those specific things were available this week to make those assertions. At worst, this select group meets and decides to slip us into next week just like the previous case. As best, the select group determines that we can Go and gets to building the release now... now wait.. isn't this what happened? Right. So this whole thread tracks back to pjones': I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Which was kind of passed unexamined, but I really don't think holds up. Representation at go/no-go meeting, officially, is: QA (we have many non-USians, at least one of us will be at the meeting) releng (dgilmore is non-US) devel (I'm sure at least one person who can plausibly claim to be part of 'devel' will be available) As a de facto thing we usually have at least one of FPL or program manager present...and jreznik is non-US. So it rather looks like we're good, on the attendance front. I don't believe that pjones' assertion that 'many of the people whose views will be needed' are in the US holds up. It's true that many of the people working on key components - i.e. anaconda - are in the US, but that's not really a problem for holding a go/no-go meeting. By the time we're doing go/no-go it's really too late to be fixing stuff, all we're doing is evaluating the state of the current RC (if there is one) and deciding whether it's shippable. If it's not, we don't need developers to make a crazy rush effort, because we'll be slipping anyway. So there really isn't a problem from that perspective. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
[Test-Announce] Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
Join us on irc.freenode.net in #fedora-meeting-1 for this important meeting, wherein we shall determine the readiness of the Fedora 18 Beta. Thursday, November 22, 2012 @20:00 UTC (15:00 EST/12:00 PST/21:00 CET) Before each public release Development, QA and Release Engineering meet to determine if the release criteria are met for a particular release. This meeting is called the Go/No-Go Meeting. Verifying that the Release criteria are met is the responsibility of the QA Team. For more details about this meeting see: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Go_No_Go_Meeting In the meantime, keep an eye on the Fedora 18 Beta Blocker list: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/18/beta/buglist Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. Jaroslav ___ test-announce mailing list test-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test-announce -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. -- Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
- Original Message - On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Well, the question was if we want to try to shoot ourselves to the knee or not (on yesterday's QA meeting) - so if it makes sense to try on Thursday or give up, move Go/No-Go to Wednesday and... And as we are late with RC but blocker bug list does not look as bad to not to try it and this one day could make the difference :( Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. Ops, sorry - I'm European, I don't have a clue how Thanksgiving looks like - if we want to stick with Thursday, could you recommend better time (some people are willing to be around) to avoid the clash? R. -- Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/20/2012 11:15 AM, Peter Jones wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. Seems a little (lot) nuts to have this meeting on Thanksgiving day... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCr4hkACgkQrlYvE4MpobOUQQCfTjFP6krvXLd7bYz5LWF8CVyz 3hoAoOGkL5ZdCeuWjP4US5uEL5NEruXv =0nxm -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 11:15 -0500, Peter Jones wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. I was one who slightly favoured Thursday. As Jaroslav said, the reasoning is that this week the extra day could be *really important*, with the timing of the fedup work. We are aiming to build RC1 today; realistically speaking the chances that fedup works perfectly first time are not high, so I was figuring on needing at least an RC2. Given that, Wednesday seemed over-optimistic to do the meeting. I think it's understood that we won't make a controversial Go call on Thursday; it'll be either a clear Go, otherwise slip. What about Friday? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:06 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 11:15 -0500, Peter Jones wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. I was one who slightly favoured Thursday. As Jaroslav said, the reasoning is that this week the extra day could be *really important*, with the timing of the fedup work. We are aiming to build RC1 today; realistically speaking the chances that fedup works perfectly first time are not high, so I was figuring on needing at least an RC2. Given that, Wednesday seemed over-optimistic to do the meeting. I think it's understood that we won't make a controversial Go call on Thursday; it'll be either a clear Go, otherwise slip. What about Friday? I think we agreed previously that Thursday was as late as we could go while giving time for staging and so on. QA could do go/no-go 10 minutes before release, but other groups need more time, so it's up to them to decide how far we can push it. Friday is also a holiday in the U.S., I think, BTW - the notorious 'black Friday'... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:06 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 11:15 -0500, Peter Jones wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. I was one who slightly favoured Thursday. As Jaroslav said, the reasoning is that this week the extra day could be *really important*, with the timing of the fedup work. We are aiming to build RC1 today; realistically speaking the chances that fedup works perfectly first time are not high, so I was figuring on needing at least an RC2. Given that, Wednesday seemed over-optimistic to do the meeting. I think it's understood that we won't make a controversial Go call on Thursday; it'll be either a clear Go, otherwise slip. What about Friday? I think we agreed previously that Thursday was as late as we could go while giving time for staging and so on. QA could do go/no-go 10 minutes before release, but other groups need more time, so it's up to them to decide how far we can push it. Does one day really make that much of a difference? Lets just slip one day for the beta (release on Wednesday instead of Tuesday) then. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
From: Ric Wheeler rwhee...@redhat.com Friday is a normal work day for most people (although some people will take it off to get a longer weekend :)) You know it's a Red Hat paid holiday, right? -- Kaleb -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:16 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:06 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 11:15 -0500, Peter Jones wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 08:14:08AM -0500, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. I really think having this meeting during the second largest US holiday is a very poor idea, especially since almost everybody working on anything we're likely to decide no-go for is in the US, as are many of the people whose views will be needed. Also note that even if they can show up /sometime on Thanksgiving day/, which is unlikely enough to begin with, many if not most families celebrate with a mid-afternoon meal. That's right where this meeting is scheduled for. I was one who slightly favoured Thursday. As Jaroslav said, the reasoning is that this week the extra day could be *really important*, with the timing of the fedup work. We are aiming to build RC1 today; realistically speaking the chances that fedup works perfectly first time are not high, so I was figuring on needing at least an RC2. Given that, Wednesday seemed over-optimistic to do the meeting. I think it's understood that we won't make a controversial Go call on Thursday; it'll be either a clear Go, otherwise slip. What about Friday? I think we agreed previously that Thursday was as late as we could go while giving time for staging and so on. QA could do go/no-go 10 minutes before release, but other groups need more time, so it's up to them to decide how far we can push it. Does one day really make that much of a difference? Lets just slip one day for the beta (release on Wednesday instead of Tuesday) then. Well, we already 'pushed it' one day to Thursday permanently for this cycle - it used to be Wednesday. Friday gives only about a business day and a half, plus the weekend, for whatever has to happen between sign-off and release. The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... That's just makes us less flexible for hardly any gain if any. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:31 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... That's just makes us less flexible for hardly any gain if any. It's not my policy, I just stated what it is. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 09:31:09PM +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... That's just makes us less flexible for hardly any gain if any. My recollection (I believe that jkeating proposed this policy so he can correct me if I'm misremembering anything) is that the days of the week that we can release on is determined by what works best for mirrors. Tuesdays and Thursdays were seen as suitable for this. The discussion happened on the mailing list but my google-fu is failing to find it at the moment. -Toshio pgpGwTf0LJqYo.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 12:58:07PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: My recollection (I believe that jkeating proposed this policy so he can correct me if I'm misremembering anything) is that the days of the week that we can release on is determined by what works best for mirrors. Tuesdays and Thursdays were seen as suitable for this. The discussion happened on the mailing list but my google-fu is failing to find it at the moment. As a former mirror admin, I can vouch for this. However, I don't think Wednesday would be a particular hardship. I'm for keeping delays at a week-based granularity for another reason, though. In the big scheme of things, a delay of a week is unfortunate but not earth-shaking. Having that be the policy means less thought needs to be put into quibbling about delaying by N, N-1, or N+2 days, and then revisiting that again daily. If it's not ready this time, there's a quick meeting and we move on. -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
- Original Message - On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 09:31:09PM +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... That's just makes us less flexible for hardly any gain if any. My recollection (I believe that jkeating proposed this policy so he can correct me if I'm misremembering anything) is that the days of the week that we can release on is determined by what works best for mirrors. Tuesdays and Thursdays were seen as suitable for this. The discussion happened on the mailing list but my google-fu is failing to find it at the moment. Ok, thanks, probably it would be a good idea to recheck with rel-engs/mirrors, Tue and Thu would give us more flexibility for slips - especially when we have RC and we're close to the release... I'd say the policy is not set in stone and it could help us to manage F18 release. R. -Toshio -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
Kaleb Keithley (kkeit...@redhat.com) said: Friday is a normal work day for most people (although some people will take it off to get a longer weekend :)) You know it's a Red Hat paid holiday, right? Sure, but even among those who may have the day off, I suspect they're more likely be able to make a short meeting on Friday than Thursday. Bill -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2012-11-20 at 21:31 +0100, drago01 wrote: On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote: The cycle is weekly by policy - we don't do one-day slips... That's just makes us less flexible for hardly any gain if any. It's not my policy, I just stated what it is. I did not say that it is your policy ... please don't put words in my mouth, thanks. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Fedora 18 Beta Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, November 22 @ 20:00 UTC (3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific)
Join us on irc.freenode.net in #fedora-meeting-1 for this important meeting, wherein we shall determine the readiness of the Fedora 18 Beta. Thursday, November 22, 2012 @20:00 UTC (15:00 EST/12:00 PST/21:00 CET) Before each public release Development, QA and Release Engineering meet to determine if the release criteria are met for a particular release. This meeting is called the Go/No-Go Meeting. Verifying that the Release criteria are met is the responsibility of the QA Team. For more details about this meeting see: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Go_No_Go_Meeting In the meantime, keep an eye on the Fedora 18 Beta Blocker list: http://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/milestone/18/beta/buglist Btw. Thanksgiving conflict is known, but we decided not to move Go/No-Go to Wednesday because of limited time for testing, let me know in case of (strong) objections. Jaroslav ___ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
